seb

Excellent review!! Thanks for sharing your cruise with us. BTW, the plantain dish you had in San Juan is Mofongo... :)

Thanks, knew I didn't have it correct but man was that tasty :-).

PoorPlaya, I thought I heard RAJ, the concierge, say he was leaving the ship after our cruise for his vacation. Perhaps this is why no response yet.

Did you get an email from the concierge yet regarding your cruise? Our email came 2 weeks before the cruise and it had a direct link to Raj's email for any assistance we might need. Sadly enough, I didn't take advantage of that.

So, do you think this is a cover-up? Not being facetious, just curious.

 

While I can't say what Kittsian law enforcement procedures are, if there was any mismanagement, wouldn't that come out when the investigation procedure is reviewed by higher authority there? Perhaps there were other dock workers who saw the incident, and gave statements to the police. I'm not saying this was a "thorough and complete" investigation or not, I'm just saying that it apparently met the requirements of St. Kitts, or the ship would not have been allowed to sail.

 

While the surveillance video from RCI could be tampered with, the voice and data recorders onboard are just like on airlines, where you need to remove the hard drive to access the recordings. So, at least some impartial data exists, though it may not be all that pertinent. It would show, though, a definitive timeline, as some eyewitness posters here have claimed that the propulsion was quickly shut down, and others that it took 10 minutes. Also, the recorders on the Celebrity ship could be accessed to see if her propulsion was on at the time. Since the Silhouette was scheduled to depart one hour later than Independence, she may have been performing the required testing of the propulsion at the exact time that Independence was leaving, though I would doubt that her pods would have been pointed towards the dock during this.

I wouldn't and didn't say that as I don't have all the facts surrounding the investigation. My original point was that this investigation doesn't meet the standard of "thorough and complete" without at least talking to all eye witnesses let alone getting their evidence.

And I respectfully disagree that the authorities "have no choice but to be satisfied". When life is lost, there is a choice. The ship didn't have to sail away 4 1/2 hrs after the incident. I actually expected to be in St. Kitt overnight with the amount of interviews that, IMHO, should have occurred. It's not imposing "our standards" on another country. It's conducting a professional, thorough and complete investigation. I do believe families of tragedies like these deserve that.

So you start this food tour straight after breakfast, one assumes that you nibble your way around San Juan for 3 hours and are able to get back to the ship before the Windjammer closes.

Now that's what you call a foodie experience.!!!!

It was :-). We had stops at 6 locations and got to sample at each one. Two other things we tried was a type of cuban sandwich with a twist...ham and cheese in a light flaky almost puff pastry with powdered sugar on top. Man was that good and the place is owned by Ricky Martin's (singer) cousin :-). We also had ceveiche (sp?). Can't spell it but it was very fresh and good as well :-).

We had the Ice Show on Day Two ( first performance). Don't think they have 2 different shows but maybe wrong. All we saw was the Violin show and it was very good.

We're investigators made aware of this? I would hope so, but just because you know about it doesn't mean they did.

 

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That's the point. There was never an attempt to gather any evidence, statements or video, from anyone other than RCI personnel.

From one retired law enforcement executive to another, you're imposing our professional standards on another country. While what you say may be true in the US, it's hard to say the same holds true in St. Kitts.

I'll just rely on my background and training (I've taught Internationally as well as in US) and can state that a death investigation should contain all statements of witness and collection of evidence pertinent to the investigation. I believe the standards in St. Kitts is the same after speaking to some folks from the UK I know who are very familiar with LEA in St. Kitt.

If you read the statement from SCASPA, they got statements from the crews on both ships and it sounds like there was surveillance video of the incident from the Celebrity ship, which is why they didn't need to get passenger video or interview passengers (and given how wildly different the eyewitness accounts here have been, they're probably better off not taking them into account).

I'll just make one comment here. After 34 years in law enforcement, 18+ of it in Executive Mgt, overseeing our 150 officer Investigations division for 12 years, and teaching Internationally for 4 years, I'll just say that interviews and evidence collected by ONLY those involved in an incident is NOT a complete investigation. A DEATH investigation REQUIRES ( or should I say should require) a complete and exhaustive investigation. IMHO, this was not done.

I know of at least 5 people I spoke to on the ship that said they had video of the ENTIRE incident from their balcony and were never asked for it or questioned. Perhaps the ship video did capture it all, perhaps not. We'll never know now will we. But having an independent video not associated with an entry involved in this incident would certainly be something that should have been collected.

Like I said, I'm not going to say who was right or wrong. I don't have ALL the facts and information and unfortunately neither does SCASPA or whoever else reviews this. That's what bothers me.

I'd love info on how to find out more about the tour you did in San Juan. That sounds like something we would enjoy!

If you google food tours of old san juan you'll get their web site. It was like 80 dollars and the tour is 3 hrs. You begin at 10 and end at 1. Just enough time to get back to ship before 1:30.

What was nice is the walking tour also covered some historical info. about Old SJ and the area as well.

Enjoy:-).

Steve

How was barefoot beach? Did u have a cabana? Was it easy to get a chair? We're in a gs next week and have never been on BB

 

Thanks

 

 

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Barefoot Beach was great!! We tried to rent an overwater cabana but all were booked before we even boarded. I'd suggest contacting RCI BEFORE cruising and booking if you want one.

Turns out we really didn't need a cabana. We got a great spot under a tree with just the right amount of shade and it was perfect. No problem getting chairs on the beach as well.

Since your on the bay side there are no waves where you'll be in the water. Just on the opposite side from Barefoot is another beach area with waves if you want that as well.

Steve

Agree completely with regard to respecting jurisdictions BUT ALL evidence and statements from ALL witnesses should have been taken that evening, not just from RCI and their personnel.. That is universal law enforcement and that wasn't done. Collecting evidence and statements from only the cruise line and it's staff is NOT a complete and accurate picture and unfortunately it can never be done now.

Home now from our cruise and will give quick review of our trip. Before I start I'm sure everyone knows of the tragedy that occurred in St. Kitt so I will not comment on that part of the trip. I've written briefly about that in another thread.

Flew in the day of Sail. First time we did that and a little nervous. But all flights were on time and got to FL at about Noon. It took about 30 minutes to get a cab. Don't know why they don't have cabs waiting but there was a long line for cabs and only a few at a time came trickling into the airport. Quick 10 minute ride to cruise terminal and we were there around 12:45 P.M. Only took 15 minutes to get onto ship!!! We laughed that it took longer to get a taxi then to get onboard. Very smooth process.

Ship/Room: Ship was beautiful and in excellent shape. This crew was very friendly and seemed more attentive to customers than the last couple cruises we'd done on RCI. Crew was constantly cleaning, painting, and varnishing. We had an OS this time, room 1334, deck 10 close to elevators. Perfect location for us. 30 steps to concierge lounge :-). Stateroom attendant, Hasrizal, was extremely nice and kept us supplied with ice and towel animals (wife loves them) every day.

Food: We ate dinner in the MDR - MTD - 5 nights, CHOPS 2 nights and Windjammer 1 night. Food is so subjective but here's our thoughts - MDR food was a little better that what we have had before. Our waiters, Jose sand Arnell, were excellent and very attentive. Service was a bit slow, even to the point of Jose apologizing one night for the slow service, but we were in no hurry and it didn't bother us.

We did the wine tasting in CHOPS. Excellent dinner with a slight hiccup. For the dessert, they served a dessert wine that was not the one listed. We're not huge wine folks so we didn't really notice but a couple at our table were very familiar with wine and did notice. They asked why we were given a different wine than was listed. Our waiter didn't really know so he got the manager. He didn't have an immediate answer but said he'd check. 5 minutes later he came back with "the only bottle left" of that wine and served our table. It was a MUCH better wine and so we were glad someone at our table noticed :-).

We also did CHOPS on our last night. Excellent and yes, it's still the old menu. Asked if they were changing menus and they said they didn't know.

We also did CHOPS for breakfast each morning. For GS and above, CHOPS opens for breakfast with made to order eggs and such and a small fruit/cheese/coldcut buffet. Very nice and fresh squeezed OJ at no cost :-).

We also were invited to a lunch in CHOPS with senior officers. Very nice event.

Windjammer- If you've seen one, you've seen em all :-). Nothing new but food was good.

Diamond Lounge : Way too small but in a great venue. Was told over 500 Diamond and above on this cruise. Tried going there 3x and each time room packed with people standing.

Excursions: In St. Marteen we just walked around. We've been there many times and enjoy just walking the streets of both Capitals.

In St. Kitt we did the RCI Safari 4 x 4 Off Road/Beach excursion. Greg's tours and he did a great job. Went into the rain forrest, saw lots of livestock and wild monkeys etc. then ended at Friar's Beach for about 90 minutes.

In San Juan we did an excursion not from the ship. It's a walking Food tour of Old San Juan. We visited 6 different small family owned places and sampled their speciality. We visited the birth place of the Pin Colada and had one there -best one we've ever had. We made our own Fundago (sp) and then filled it with great seasoned chicken, went to a chocolate bar and had some fantastic hot chocolate and then a strange "smokes". It was sharp cheddar cheese with a piece of dark chocolate on top...you then dip that into your hot chocolate until the cheese gets a little soft and then eat. Strange but good.

Labadee: It's been over 10 years since we were there and Oh my, what a difference. We just did a beach day there and enjoyed the BBQ lunch they provided. Very good.

SPA : DW had a massage and manicure and was pleased. I had a stone massage one day and the seaweed wrap / massage another. Both excellent.

Ice Show: Best one we've seen yet.

Embarkation: We did self carry off. Were off ship by 6:30 and airport by 7. Excellent.

Well short review became kinda long :-(. Bottom line, RCI didn't disappoint us again. Had a great time overall.

Any questions please ask and I'll try to answer.

Wasn't going to weigh in on this but after reading posts here's my input. I was on IOS and had a starboard balcony and did witness portions of this incident. I'm a retired law enforcement executive manager who had under his command a Harbor Patrol. I am very familiar with what would happen in the US if this incident occurred in my jurisdiction ( but it didn't ) and what DID or should I say Didn't happen still bothers me.

I will not comment on how and who is responsible because I learned a long time ago not to speculate and only come to a conclusion after all facts in an investigation are known. And this is what bothers me.

In a death investigation, no stone should be left unturned and in my opinion there is something wrong here. There is NO way this ship should have left St Kitts 4 hrs. after this incident. There should have been investigators on board the ship in St. Kitt to interview and take statements from ALL witnesses and crew. This was never done. There should have been blood tests of ALL officers on the bridge , collection of videos and photos taken by passengers - this never done.

Simply put, this ship shouldn't have left St. Kitt until a complete a extensive investigation was completed. When we were pulling away, one person next to me commented that RCI must have already paid $$ to the family's already for us to be leaving the scene of an incident that caused 2 deaths only 4 hrs. after it occurred. I hope this isn't the case.

Like I said, I won't speculate or comment on who's at fault but I can tell you an incident like this would take at least 24 hrs to gather all interviews and evidence necessary. 4-5 hrs is just WRONG.

Just like cooking for 3,000-4,000 folks in a coordinated main dining room setting isn't the same.... what's your point?

 

The point was those that are saying how great the food will be BECAUSE the food at the event was very good should NOT expect the same quality on the ship. I've been responsible for many events when I was still working in the corporate world and these publicity events, while nice, should not be the judge of how something will be, ESPECIALLY when the event is put on by the corporation promoting itself, that's all. Don't drink ALL the kool-aide. A little is good but don't take big sips :-).

We'll give it a try I'm sure, but I almost fell off my chair when I heard RCI talk about catering to the tech side of the new traveler. They can't get their tech house in order for YEAR as has been WELL documented on this web site.

Also makes me laugh that folks are talking about how good the food was at the tasting AND how good it's going to be on the new ship. Please tell me your NOT that gullible :-(.

Do you really think the quality of the food at a preview tasting is going to be the same as on a ship??? RCI did a major publicity event ( as they should ) and controlled the environment of their message, to include food prep and display. It's good business but PLEASE don't think that's the way it will be a year from now on the ship.

Cooking for 3,000 - 4,000 + folks on a ship daily is a little different than a publicity event in NY...

I leave on April 24 on the Exporer. Do Cruise documents matter? I was able to print the Set Sail Passes. When I try to download the Cruise Documents it tells me I opted to receive electronically and that they will send me email notification when they are ready! On the roll call many people are indicating they got their documents already.

 

I was not going to worry as I have the Set Sail Pass.

You're fine. If you have your Set Sail printed, that confirms you're good to go. The documents just confirm your costs, purchase add ons etc. It also has paper luggage tags as well but you can get those at the pier.

This not a difficult question. There are not enough smokers to justify a dedicated area. If they add a dedicated lounge, RCL can make a bigger profit when the lounge is designed for the vast majority of the passengers. If smoking is that important to you, select a different cruise line.

I'm not a cig smoker but I think your logic is a little off, IMHO. There are certainly more smokers than let's say library users. The reason, I believe, they aren't currently converting underused space is $$. It costs nothing to continue to have open space, even if it's underutilized. It does cost $$ to convert and enclose open space to a smoking area. Walls and doors are the minor cost. The real cost is the ventilation system.

IMHO reading these boards for the last few months before our cruise next week, RCI is not in the direction of adding costs to their bottom line but to reduce overhead and increase profits, many times to the detriment of their customers.

I'll try and answer some can't all....

1. No. Don't need everyone in cabin to purchase. Can purchase separate packages as well.

2. Doesn't apply

3. Differences are what beverages and value of drinks are offered. And yes, you can purchase once on board. To get the ACCURATE differences, go to RCI website. You'll see the packages there.

Hope that helps a little. I'm sure someone will post a more detailed response for you.

Also, I'd bet a wooden nickel that it will change again before your 3/15 sail. You'll love OASIS, it's a great ship.

In all the back and forth between who to blame, I think you all are missing a significant point. As one poster stated, RCI REQUIRES certain payments at certain times but in the case of returns, they usually stagger them back to consumer.

This is NOT by accident. Refunds can be given back in full amount just as they collect revenue in full amounts. The choice to refund in increments allows RCI to collect interest on $$ they have. Even if it's just a month or so until full refund occurs, they (RCI) collects interest on those $$.

Now a few hundred dollars here and there doesn't seem like much, BUT when you add it up over the number of refunds they have yearly, it DOES add up to thousands and thousands of dollars. Just another way to add to corporate profit.

Inside information, or speculation??

I have a very good friend who is high up in mgt. at Tyson. They, RCI and Tyson, couldn't come to agreement on price, so RCI stopped buying. It was Tyson chicken for several years until they stopped the purchase.

The way things are going at RCI lately - up charges now on almost everything, I'd be surprised if they didn't bring it back with a $2 fee now :-).

OP-I

 

When posting here, on this forum-kind of hard to get any sympathy. If you are D+ and your CL perk gets removed-hell hath no fury and your complaint would rally the troops. Have money debited out of your account and no cruise reservation to show for it, be on hold for 90 minutes trying to rectify the situation.... how dare you complain!!!

Ding Ding Ding…BINGO we have a winner !!!!

I've been frequenting these boards whenever we have a cruise planned since 02. I have noticed in the past year or so there is very LITTLE tolerance for those that have issues with RCI. Understandable since it is a RCI forum, but the amount and volume of snide and rude comments, IMHO, certainly has increased from when I began reading these boards.

There are a few folks on here, you know who you are :-), that give absolutely great advice without the rude or sarcastic tone, and there are a few folks, yes you know who you are as well :-), that just can't help themselves by bashing someone before they give their sage and all knowing advice.

Quoting a famous line from many years ago, …"Can't we all just get along."

Just my 2 1/2 cent observation.

Mine was Voyager of the Seas because it was my first cruise ever. And in a very very close second or maybe even tied with Voyager is Freedom of the Seas

Dito :-). When the family walked onto the Promenade, I knew we'd be hooked and back many times. And we have been. Love the Voyager class, but the Central Park on Allure/Oasis really impressed us as well. We love those ships as well.

Reading about all the "negative" changes listed, and there are many :-(, reminds me of a thread several years back when RCI began taking the chocolates away. Yes those D@%$ chocolates!! :-).

Can't remember who said it but the jist of their comments was that this is just the beginning. They predicted RCI will begin a deliberate slow process of reducing overhead and costs to the consumer's disadvantage but to corporate's advantage.

Well the flaming this person got on this site was endless, I mean brutal. The "loyal to royal" folks just went crazy brutal on him/her.

Fast forward a few years and this person now looks like a wise psychic that sees into the future.

If your being honest, no one, I mean no one, can deny that the RCI product has lessened for the consumer over the last 3-5 years. The list is long: food, long customer service waits, terrible, I mean really terrible - yes it was bad in past but has gotten much worse- IT, less staff doing more with less, increased up charges and reducing choices in specialty restaurants, yes-no chocolates:-), fewer towel animals :-) , on and on and on.

BUT with that said, I still believe RCI has a product that I'm willing to pay my hard earned $$ on, FOR NOW. It is still a great vacation for the DW and I. Will be on IOS later this month and even with those listed "negatives" we'll have a great time. We just know what to expect AND not expect.

You can HSC any day and every day via room service

Unfortunately I've been reading here posts where the HSC is now actually chicken fingers and not HSC on some of the ships now, even though the menu says HSC. We'll know in 2 weeks if IOS has HSC or not. Hopefully they will, it's also one of our favorites. Not because it's so great, it's good but not great, but because it does signify the start of our cruise. If I wanted chicken fingers, I'd order em :-).

Whether it is an online TA or a bricks and mortar TA there are good ones and bad ones so the 'trick' is to find a good one. It certainly is easier to find one by referral or personal experience. The TA is there as your advocate so they should be going to bat for you. Using an anonymous online site for the first time is like buying a car from an online broker - you never really know what you will end up with until delivery.

Absolutely, just as "using an anonymous" bricks and mortar "TA is like "never knowing what you will end up with until delivery". :-). Referral and personal experience USUALLY always gives better results and certainly there is good in both the online and conventional TA.

I'm not associated with either, so no dog in the fight:-).. but have used both in the past and I can honestly say I've gotten a better price and benefits from the online in both cruising and land vacations. Granted, I do a lot of research and know what I want, so that certainly helps.

I really hope this teaches people a lesson to stop booking with online travel agents. I'm sure it won't. Next time please book with a travel agent that you know (in person) or find one through a friend or by referral. A great travel agent will be there with you from start to finish and will not put you through what these online travel agents do. If you want to continuously have headaches and be worrying all the time, then keep using these online travel agents because that is exactly what you will get!

Spoken like a true TA :-).

I have booked with an online TA for the 10+ years for cruises and land vacations and have NEVER had an issue. In fact, this on line TA has been able to beat the price of the local "in person" TA + given me OBC and perks the others didn't. Saved me over 300 dollars and gave me OBC for my upcoming cruise this month from the "in person" TA. If you read these threads a lot, you will also see a lot of folks having issues with "in person" TA as well.

As with anything else, if you find a reliable company, whether on line agency or "in person"

TA, stick with em if they get you what you need and treat you right.