thechicagoans

That's a pretty easy connection. Also, assuming this is one ticket, even if your UA AUS - ORD flight is delayed, you'll be protected and can be booked on the next flight.

The only negative is that SK 944 departs ORD at 10:05 PM from Terminal 5 and is one of the last transatlantic flights of the night out of ORD. In case you are delayed upon arrival and just barely miss the connection OR something is wrong with the plane and the flight is cancelled, your only option left for the night will be on Lufthansa: LH 433 from Terminal 1 at 10:30 PM.

That being said, this is rare and you should be fine. The layover time is more than sufficient.

Final thought to keep in mind: SK does not participate in TSA PreCheck so if you're used to that, budget a little extra time for security. There aren't too many flights out of T5 that late so it shouldn't be too bad.

Bottomline I dont even consider a hotel or airline that I have not gotten into their program As said before, jumping from this to that for a few dollars now, shorts you in the longrun. Penny wise is pound foolish I have found.

You have to look at where you live, where in your life time you think you might ever go and settle on a long term plan.........

I mostly disagree. Given where the airline and hotel programs are today, your viewpoint made sense for people who got in on "the game" decades ago and no longer make sense for anyone except the top 1% of most heavily traveled people. Lots of people got lifetime status on American through credit card miles - no longer possible. I travel a lot for work and pleasure and it's barely worthwhile anymore (basically, IMHO, if you fly < 50,000 miles/year or < 50 flights/year, don't even bother with airline status, just get the right credit cards).

We should be loyal to those we love. Not to an airline or hotel. The airline and hotel aren't going to love you back.

Insurance companies are businesses. They are not in business to lose money.

Does purchasing insurance make sense in many, many situations? Yes. The reason you buy insurance is to prevent losses that would be untenable (e.g. medical evacuation that cost $500,000 would be impossible for all but the wealthiest people). If you want to go back to my analysis, you can add in the likelihood of a medical evacuation. It is very unlikely. Sure it happens and we all have the bias of "hey, I know someone on CC who used it" but at the end of the day, the insurance company wouldn't sell you that insurance if it expected to make a loss on it.

Do insurance companies usually pay you less than you pay in premiums to them over your lifetime? Yes. Otherwise, they would not survive.

Insurance, like gambling, is not a "winning bet". That being said, both industries exist because they provide value to some people. Insurance companies protect people against major losses and gambling provides people entertainment.

OP - sorry to hear about your DH's condition.

Insurance is by nature a business. Insurance companies would go out of business if they paid out more than they took in (premiums). The reason we take out insurance is that the individual cost and pain of a canceled trip for most non-wealthy folks is high so we want to protect ourselves against that.

If you are worth a lot of money, it is cheaper to self insure. Here's a very simplified example:

Cost of Cruise: $2,500

Cost of other travel/hotels/flights/prepaid arrangements: $1,000

Total Non-Refundable Cost: $3,500

Family A: Net worth: $100,000. Annual income: $75,000

Family B: Net worth $5 million. Annual income: $500,000

Let's say the average likelihood of having to cancel the cruise is 5% (1 in 20).

The insurance company would lose money if the premium they charged to offer you the insurance for less than $175 (5% of the non-refundable cost). Let's say the insurance company decides to charge $245 for the insurance. On average, they make a $70 profit per insurance policy sold (excluding the cost of selling the policy, their overhead, etc.).

Now let's say both Family A and Family B take the cruise every year for 20 years. Let's say that in these 20 years, each family cancels their cruise 1 time.

Family A bought insurance every year. They paid $245 * 20 = $4,900 in premiums to the insurance company and got back $3,500 from the one canceled cruise. Family A's cost is the $4,900 paid in premiums.

Family B was wealthy and decided to self insure. They never paid for insurance and therefore they just lost the $3,500 on the cruise they didn't take.

Family B saved $1,400 over Family A in this example. That being said, it doesn't mean Family A is making a poor decision by purchasing insurance. Perhaps $3,500 is most of their vacation budget for the year and therefore, it would be really painful to miss out on having any vacation in a given year. Family B might spend $30,000 a year on vacations so losing a little over 10% of that is not a huge deal.

Insurance is a business at the end of the day. Calling it a "sucker bet" is harsh but from an actuarial standpoint, it does have negative expected cash value. The value comes from the downside protection it provides. Family A paid just $70 per year for piece of mind.

Personally, we don't take out travel insurance for short trips but always by international health insurance for any trip abroad and have bought travel insurance for a once in a lifetime trip we did. It all depends on your personal situation.

So VS Premium Economy is on the cards but United Economy Plus isn't on the basis of cost?

 

I'd be very surprised if VS PE and United Economy were the same price, and if so United wouldn't even be a consideration.

I too would be very surprised if United E+ is more expensive than VS PE or BA WTP. The US airlines (AA, DL, and UA) have created extra legroom products because (a) they can be given as free upgrades to those with status and (b) they generate decent revenue sales to non-status passengers.

Please check the pricing and let us know what the difference is.

While the differences between economy class on long-haul flights many not be as substantial as it is in Business class, it's definitely there. I've only flown 4 airlines in business class across the Atlantic (Air India, Air France, Austrian, and Iberia) and yes, Austrian (OS) is by far the best.

For Economy, there are still some real differences. For example, Swiss (LX) has 32" seat pitch and seats that recline quite a bit so you can sleep. Austrian (OS) on the other hand, has some B763s flying which only have 30" pitch and it's rather tight with poor recline. I've flown Air Berlin (AB) too and while the inflight service was wonderful, I couldn't catch a wink of sleep on an overnight flight.

Most US-based airlines (except US Airways) offer extra-legroom products on most of their Transatlantic flights. American has Main Cabin Extra (MCE), Delta has Economy Comfort (EC), and United has Economy Plus (E+). I have not flown in EC but am generally quite happy in MCE or E+. If you can snag an exit row or bulkhead (infant in bassinet notwithstanding), you can often have a lot of legroom and be even more comfortable than the extra-legroom seats. The upgrade prices for these seats are often quite reasonable (e.g. $100 each way). Of the US legacies, Delta probably offers the best service in Economy. Personally, while I have both AA and US long-haul flights coming up later this year and have status so I get really good seats for free, I still end up on European and Middle Eastern airlines a lot because they offer competitive fares and have better Economy class service than US-based airlines.

Many European airlines have Premium Economy products (BA's World Traveller Plus, Air France on some flights, Lufthansa on some flights, etc., SAS Economy Comfort, KLM Economy Comfort) which are a separate class of service between Economy and Business. Personally, I don't find the pricing for these products to be worthwhile but some people do.

You've been offered some good advice in this thread but for most people who travel the world in Economy, there is a difference.

Neither AA's nor US's 757-200s feature true lie-flat business class seats.

AA and US both operate a domestic version and an international version. Both domestic versions have regular domestic First Class Seats (recliners). Both international versions have closer to lie-flat but not true lie-flats although I would prefer AA's version over US's version in this situation.

You can read the details of US's 757 envoy seat at: http://www.usairways.com/en-US/traveltools/intheair/businessfirst/business.html

It has 70 degree recline - that sounds good for a Westbound from Europe to the US during the day but most people wouldn't be able to sleep on that for an Eastbound overnight flight.

Save your money and don't pay for Envoy on the 757. You may have a chance at a day of upgrade but it's often in the $600 - $900 range. To me, that's not worth it.

ALSO - AA does not offer 4 class service to anywhere in the world. Main Cabin Extra is not another class of service (even when on the 77W where its 9 across instead of 10 across like regular Main Cabin).

IMO, SkyTeam is imploding from some heavy handedness from DL. AF has been making retaliatory moves, and overall reciprocal benefits in the alliance are on a downward spiral. The earning rates for SkyMiles was the big shot in the war, and I think it's only a matter of time before ST splinters. Into what, I'm not sure, but that's just my own two kopeks.

If only DL would get some humility. They are now calling themselves "The World's Most Trusted Airline". By whom? Definitely not the frequent flier community!

That being said, kudos to DL for improving the long-haul economy experience with bringing back amenity kits and having mid-flight ice cream service on most flights to Europe (with some exceptions out of JFK).

Unless you're getting some super fare for flying BA WTP or AF Premium Voyager (Lufthansa is also launching it although I believe Chicago - Frankfurt is the first US route), I would just take a non-stop in regular economy to BCN.

There's no point in spending an additional 2 - 4 hours on a plane to get a slightly more comfortable seat. Get there sooner and go sleep in a real bed.

1. UA's EconomyPlus seats are nice but nothing special beyond the extra legroom and being towards the front of the cabin (one advantage of the extra legroom is it means the rows are spaced out further so the chances of finding overhead bin space for your carry-on is slightly better although if you don't have status, most E+ seats will be filled by those with status and they will have boarded before you).

2. Pricing for UA E+ is not the same for each seat. Exit row seats tend to be a little higher. Aisles and Windows are more expensive than middles but not by so much that it doesn't make sense to buy an aisle or window.

3. I personally find E+ to be worth it. I have status so I get it for free but have paid for it for numerous relatives ranging in height from 5'8" to 6'3" and everyone seems to appreciate the extra space. A relative who is 5'5" did however feel it wasn't worth it for her. There is no extra width in the seats.

4. I prefer AA/UA/DL/KL-style extra legroom seats (or as AA has on the 77Ws, extra width in Main Cabin Extra as its 9 across instead of 10 across) as the price premium is reasonably priced. I personally do not find BA's WTP or AF Premium Voyager to be worth the nearly 2x price of a regular economy seat.

5. If you want to chance it and all regular economy seats appear assigned, you may be able to get into Economy Plus for free upon check-in but it will likely be a middle seat assuming loads are strong as they have been for the past year.

Enjoy Australia!

I realize I'm a little late to this thread but just wanted to add that AB is a perfectly legitimate airline in Economy.

PROs:

- Solid economy meals with a proper cold breakfast before arrival at TXL (Berlin) or DUS (Dusseldorf)

- Even serve food on short-haul economy flights within Europe (we got a cheese sandwich)

- Clean, modern planes

- Good IFE vs. American Airlines (AA's 752s and 763s to Europe don't have individual screens and the 772s have looped IFE, only the new 773s have AVOD IFE and it's in the painful 10-across seating in Economy unless you are in Main Cabin Extra)

- Good customer service

- TXL, if you transit there, is one of the most efficient, compact airports I've been to. That being said, if you need shopping or other amenities beyond restrooms, it's probably terrible.

- Part of OneWorld so if you have AA Platinum or Executive Platinum, you'll have access to lounges on your international trips

CONs:

- Legroom is tight

- Recline is minimal vs. airlines like Swiss (LX) in Economy

- Cheaper paid fares earn minimal miles on AA (unlike IB and BA)

Overall, I'd say go for it. On the European short-haul legs, you can also buy-up to the Sansibar premium menu - looks nice but was fine with the free sandwich.

 

So don't get me wrong...cruises can be great with little ones (after all, I just took my five year old on her fifth cruise!)...but just requires a different way of thinking about things, and a lot of advance planning!

 

Noel

Very good advice Noel. We're just concerned we're not cut out for all-inclusives. We aren't very good at sitting around for 5 days straight in the same place and have heard the food quality and entertainment quality is also higher on cruises vs. regular AIs (the high end AIs may be another story but they are far more expensive than cruises).

CC is so amazing. Thank you everyone for all the great feedback. I think I need to go do some research on the ships. If it ends up being Adventure, then the itinerary is clear.

Thank you again. If I can help anyone on the Cruise Air forum with using their miles or flight bookings, do let me know.

Hi everyone. I'm trying to plan a family cruise for next Jan/Feb. A few considerations:

- Group of 5 (4 adults, baby who will be 11-12 months old at cruise time)

- Only previous experience was Liberty of the Seas Western Caribbean and we loved it

- Want to do a Southern Caribbean itinerary out of San Juan

- Prefer balcony cabins (still safe with a toddler right?)

- We value onboard entertainment (shows, dancing, etc.)

- Ports: don't all have to be great beaches, we like history, culture, and other natural beauty too

- Well traveled (Asia, Europe, Africa, Central America) and comfortable in "foreign places" with different kinds of food and customs

- Would fly into San Juan the day before cruise departure

There are two ships to choose from:

- Adventure of the Seas

- Jewel of the Seas

Itineraries are:

1. Jan 10 - 17, Jewel: St. Thomas, Antigua, Martinique, St. Lucia, Granada

2. Jan 24 - 31, Jewel: St. Thomas, St. Croix, Antigua, St. Lucia, Granada - basically St. Croix instead of Martinique vs. #1

3. Jan 25 - Feb 1, Adventure: Barbados, St. Lucia, Antigua, St. Maarten, St. Croix

4. Jan 31 - Feb 7, Jewell: Tortola, St. Kitts, St. Marteen, Dominica, Barbados

Thanks everyone in advance. We have not been to any of these places except San Juan so would like to get a feel for what's good given our interests.

I've flown 4 long-haul sectors with Turkish in Economy and am continually impressed.

POSITIVES

+ Good legroom

+ Reasonably wide seat on their Airbus 330s (vs. the super narrow seats American has on the 777-300ERs or United has on its 787s)

+ Good food

+ Good IFE

+ Amenity kit - no US airlines do this for Economy travelers, Airberlin does it in Economy too

NEGATIVES

- Awful English skills if you have to call the call center. I've lived in many countries, speak a variety of languages, and still have a really hard time understanding them

- Istanbul airport often requires bus transit to planes and it gets quite cold in the winters - much nicer to have skybridges like most airports in the US and Asia but a lot of Middle Eastern (AUH is a particularly bad offender) and European airports (IST, TXL, CDG for many flights, etc.) seem to not have such passenger comfort amenities

kenish - a well made point but if one wants to be able to comfortably fall asleep and not have to worry about waking up, wearing compression socks carries substantial risk-mitigating benefits. It's a simple tool that requires minimal thought to achieve a desired preventive outcome.

My advice to wear them unless medically indicated otherwise comes from a cardiologist and nephrologist but we can all get feedback from different sources so it's not like they will all agree.

The annual risk of dying in a car crash for the average American is 1 in 5,000 vs. 1 in 11 million for flying. This is where one makes a cost-benefit decision. In a car, everyone should make sure their infant / child is in a secure car seat. In a plane, while lots of parents make the "what if there's turbulence and your infant becomes a projectile" argument against lap infants, the reality is that it's a very, very unlikely occurrence.

In the grand scheme of things, you are right and I will shift my comment to be "it is highly recommended that unless one is sure of being able to take caution to exercise other preventive measures such as staying hydrated, exercising, and walking around every two hours, that one wear compression socks. If one has poor circulation, one should wear compression socks on all longhaul flights."

Human beings are naturally very poor at understanding likelihoods that are close to 0% or 100% as our cognitive decision making framework makes it challenging to evaluate the risks of something not being 100% accurate (medical tests) or something unlikely happening to us (tragedy in an accident).

Whatever you do, make sure you use IB's amazing lounge at MAD T4 S. You'll likely have a morning / early afternoon departure so they will have a great food spread (hot and cold). The views of the tarmac are great and lots of sunlight streams in during the morning hours. We killed two hours in that lounge before flying IB's MAD - ORD route in business class and really enjoyed it.

Lounges like that put US lounges to shame.

Asking for medical advice from total strangers? I take all major insurance plans. Or cash. ;-)

 

There is a wide, wide range in the quality and effects of such socks. Not all are alike. If a doctor has diagnosed you with a tendency for deep vein thrombosis, it's more important that you get a particular type, which the doc may recommend (even write a prescription for). I have had vein clot problems, and my wife (a physician) first had me wear compression socks, but , due to discomfort and difficulty getting the socks on each time, now I get an injection before each trip (she gives me the injection right before each trip-- a perk most can't enjoy).

 

Sounds like you had an allergic reaction to the material in the socks you bought (just a layman's opinion). If you go to a specialty store, or a doctor, rather than just buying online, you can discuss the different materials such socks may be made of.

 

Socks or not, you should still get up and walk as much as possible during a flight. At least every couple of hours.

+1

And everyone should wear compression socks unless medically indicated otherwise on long-haul flights. DVT is no joke.

Their business class is horrible so don't hold your breath on economy. Virtually every other airline in the world has gone to fully lie flat or at least angled lie flat seats in long haul business but not Hawaian. They still have the normal 20 year old seats with the least amount of leg room I have ever seen in business class. The service was fine but not the seating.

Have you actually flown Economy on HA or are you just making an assumption based on your experience in Business Class?

HA is the only remaining US airline to serve meals on mid-haul and long-haul flights in Economy Class. They are also beginning to offer Extra Comfort Seats (much like UA's Economy Plus, AA's Main Cabin Extraa, or DL's Economy Comfort) on their A330 flights: http://help.hawaiianairlines.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2084

HA is well-reputed as a solid economy product for US mainland - Hawaii flights.

Please be aware that KLM just offers extra legroom. I have done it before for ORD - AMS and it was nice. AMS is probably the best European airport to connect in other than TXL (Berlin).

Have fun on BA and learn about how to maximize Avoid points for short trips on American Airlines. ORD - YUL is often $700+ but only 15,000 Avoid and $57.50.

Immigration and Customs are sterile areas. Don't expect assistance from airline or airport workers until you exit the Customs area. I've never seen it at any airport worldwide (but maybe it's simply because I haven't looked). There are almost always carts available to help carry your luggage from baggage claim to the Customs inspection area.

Not always true. There are plenty of major international airports with porters post-immigration and pre-customs. ORD is one of them. An example of one outside the US is DEL. The porters are approved by US CPB. I can't recall TXL because it is so quick to get out of you could literally have a cabbie walk in 50 feet and grab your bag if they were allowed to.

BRAVO!!!! Great post!!!

 

And those last lines say it all. Most of the time you truly DON'T KNOW what you are getting into with a Choice Air ticket.

Thanks to you, Flyertalker, and the other veterans on here. It's because of folks like you that I went over to Flyertalk and tried to learn all of this stuff myself after years of traveling a lot for work and not really having a clue on what to do with my miles.

Don't know what they will do in the future, but on our most recent American Airlines flights between DFW and SJU since the merger the front cabin was still called "Business" class.

 

Despite some protestations to the contrary, the vast majority (easily 98%) of US domestic (50 states) flights with two cabins call the cabin "First Class". At least on AA, flights to the Caribbean (including PR and USVI) and Central America, despite usually being operated by 737s or 757s (both the domestic configuration with recliners and the international configuration with angle lie-flats) are called "Business Class". Oddly enough, you can fly DFW/ORD - HNL on AA's 763s with angle lie-flats with two full meals served on domestic "First" class.

It's really much simpler than all of this.

1. Can ChoiceAir save you money?

Yes

2. Can ChoiceAir end up costing you a lot more money (and years of your life) if things go wrong?

Yes

3. Is this like many other tradeoffs in life?

Yes

I personally don't use ChoiceAir and between frequent flier miles and understanding how to get decent one-way air fares, have always been fine.

The deal is if save money, it's because you gave up something else. Have I done this in other types of travel? Yes. I've used Priceline and Hotwire for over hundreds of nights of travel and saved tens of thousands of dollars. Does that mean I've never gotten a really terrible room? No. I've had a few bad stays. But I know the risk and I'm willing to take it.

As long as you know what you're getting into, it's fine. Just don't complain when something goes wrong. It's part of the deal you got.

Along with the other frequent flyers on here, I agree that airfares are still very reasonable in the grand scheme of things. Profitable airlines mean that our tax dollars are not subsidizing poorly run businesses and we should all be thankful for that.

Furthermore, just because certain locales have gotten more expensive, doesn't mean every destination has. Flying to China or India is extremely cheap right now. You can fly to both countries for $800 r/t and they are further away than Europe and South America. That's amazing.

One last thing to add, while airfare pricing is not going to be impacted by you searching over and over, package pricing as done by OTAs like Orbitz and Expedia can shift. They are smart enough to place cookies on your computer and see what your personal demand for something is. There is often differential pricing within browsers. On Hotwire, I often find $2-$5/night pricing differential between IE, Firefox, and Chrome. Orbitz spilled the beans a while back that they generally display more expensive hotels to Mac users (but charge the same price for the same hotel).