karanadowns

Yes John, best not be an informed person for Celebrity. It is a great marketing plan not quite legal in many places but after sitting down with the group who checked it out (unfortunately I got the straw to front Cruise Critic and post here to see what the reactions were from various long term and high volume posters and you have not disappointed) that is our conclusion. More on this interesting facet of marketing will be heard elsewhere.

On our previous 2 cruises (Radiance) the good Captain Sindre and many of his senior officers (both ship and house) were highly visible. When the good captain spoke everyone paused to listen.

On the last cruise very few officers were visible (other than where they were required according program) and when the captain spoke many people spoke louder so they could hear themselves over the captain. Maybe its an audience and demographics thing.

Given the quality of the food in some restaurants in Australia it is a shame (and a mystery to many) why there are not Michelin rated restaurants here. That little fact was thrown in because it perhaps shows that travel, and a lot of it, has been a part of our lives. No we have not taken 20 or 30 or more cruises and this was an oblique reference to a fact that we had traveled just a little though not necessarily on cruises.

Here is a hint to Celebrity Cruises and some posters here about the drinks (alcohol type) packages. Even though there are two levels some drinks are not available on the top package and you still have to pay the difference for these. However if, as Celebrity still says a couple of days ago, which didn't happen on our cruise, a clear if only generalised understanding of brand labels (for example for spirits) would be available on the ship, then a perusal for someone who understood their tastes might be enough to tip them into the premium package by actually demonstrating in hard print.

This might also free up the bar keeps and waiters to tend to more customers other than to explain what is there and what is not. Oh no wait, according to some you need to take the bar keeps advice on what you should be drinking, sigh.

Then again perhaps the downside of the list is that simple drinkers who might have taken the premium package might just believe the classic package was the way to go.

So now if you really can't tell what is on your package and given that everything in the classic package is on the premium package and the premium package has more and higher quality and you only pay the difference for the really high quality stuff is you are on the premium package rather the whole amount if you are on the classic package (plus 15% gratuities built in) one sees for those passenger who need the bar keep to "advise" them what they should be drinking that it is in Celebrity's interest to train the bar keep in recommending the cheap labels to those on any package to assist with their profits. Devious isn't it.

We planned in advance, booked Select Dining at 7.30 (asked for one minor change to fit a show in) and got shunted all around the dining room. Just turn up you'll do fine. Why plan!

Well the classic package as such was fine for our taste just poor form that celebrity were unable to provide even a general advice list for the package on the ship as promised (oh and as re advised two days ago in several countries when the question was asked again yes we provide lists on board for each package).

Cruising again? Well we discovered apartment hotels on the trip and connected a few dots and did a little research and currently think that is the way to go for us in future. At least there when you have late night parties happening next door and spitting over the balcony from next door to greet you each morning you can move on.

As I said before great ship, great food but the corner cutters took their toll on us. Given what we have learned in the last few days we could do the same I guess but its not us.

Great ship, great meals, the peripherals were questionable.

In other words the bullies won and you were discomforted. Common theme here.

In a very recent cruise we did not have to wait at our nominated time or table size. But we were shunted all over the port side dining area despite requesting a table in the same general area. I gather from comments here it is usual to give some money very early in the cruise to the person who allocates the tables at the door to ensure satisfaction.

When we were twice shunted into a comparably remote area we found the next morning we had drinks charges on our account despite the drinks ordered and consumed being with our designated package. Yes the charges were removed but the incredulous look on the person's face when I complained will be etched in my memory for ever. Is this this a negative comment? Well no, it is merely the truth.

Well I certainly now understand that at least here.

The real upside of this was after the 29 hour from home to Barcelona hotel (yes I know that 7 hour flight was a real pain and people complained about their jet lag from those 7 hour flights for the whole cruise) we discovered apartment hotels. And we loved apartment hotels and we will be holidaying in apartment hotels around the world from now on. We could get further away from the cursory morning spits onto the lifeboat below by our esteemed neighbour in an apartment hotel with a nice balcony. Yes the company was interesting.

Out of the last 12 comments on Cruise Citic boards 3 rate Equinox at 2 stars or less. Put us in the group and that would make 4 from 13 on recent cruises. Not the greatest of reviews for a such a high vaunted ship. Quick run out and organise some good ones to balance things up a little.

Tipping is fine when it is custom. Always prepaid gratuities and always have paid extra at the end of a cruise for excellent service. The blatant use of a tip on the table before service has happened to get priority service over those at the same venue is my complaint. I guess we just pony more and more and then complain when someone puts more on the table than we did. Given comments elsewhere I guess this type of preferential buying of service is okay. Tipping is institutionalised in areas where a living wage is not paid up front and is a necessary part of a living wage. Placing money on the counter before service in order to gain an advantage over orderly service (and often in house rules) is nothing more than a bully tactic to demand staff attention. But if it floats your boat don't expect to float others.

Oh sigh, the quality of the package was NOT the problem please reread what was said. The refusal of the ship to provide details as promised and the overcharges for no reason were the problem.

In a simple comparison between the Radiance (an RCI group ship) under a great captain and a very smart and well drilled crew (lower rated ship than the Equinox) and the Equinox found the Equinox was still a 5.5 star ship still had many great features but as a package that is an overall package for a cruise the package fell far short of what the Radiance offered twice. Now the comments on the drinks package was one part of a series of disappointments and short fallings when a genuine comparison was was made between an apparently lower rated ship and the Equinox. So keep defending Celebrity, it really makes no mind to me. The ships have a different label but are from the same overall stable so there is no malice in my statements. If people here (or the vocal ones) are prepared to accept an apparent lowering of overall standard that is fine, just don't round on those who wish to point it out.

This has become an interesting exercise, at least for us.

1. A list was known by Celebrity and provided subject to various changes at some change. It might also be remembered at that time that changes were being made. A simple request from us to Celebrity about whether a list would be available or not and agreed to by Celebrity was not met. From correspondence here that is apparently not Celebrity's fault but their call centres. Hmmm

2. It is suggested in the replies that such a list would be good even for the staff who may not know. This was an excellent suggestion because the crew did not know. I ordered a beer on boarding advised the package, took the suggestion of the waiter and was promptly advised when the drink came that it was over the package limit but I would not be charged for it because the waiter had made the mistake. It was a Red Stripe.

3. It is suggested that a list would be too extensive to change every cruise and yet with a clearly defined master list the time to alter would be rather short and the number of pages that need to be printed would not be large (given what else is printed on the ship). The promised list did not appear.

4. Night 2 saw a charge on our account for wine ordered despite the wine being in the package as advised (happened another night as well) This was not a mistake by the waiter it was a direct a malicious attempt at overcharging by the same waiter both times.

5. My advising that we are no sheep has been turned into that I called everyone else sheep. Well play it as you see it. If you need to confide in the local barkeep enough to allow him to make your selections in beverages then that's okay by me but your suggestion that we should do the same is not accepted. A bar keep is not our muse.

6. Rounding a bar appears to be acceptable practice so I guess we were out of place and time. Buying your way to the head of the line is acceptable practice it appears. Silly us we thought normal serving behaviour would apply.

Broadly, perhaps, what has happened is that with 123Go packages the demographics of the membership of cruise parties on Celebrity has dramatically changed, Celebrity has in a de facto way recognised this but has been unable to bridge the gap between both ends of what is now a much wider spectrum of clients than it had before. We were, as new guests, on the wrong end of the changing spectrum.

If those who charge me as being a whiner would care to read my previous two reviews about the experiences on the Radiance then perhaps a slightly deeper thought would have been put into the comment. But there are of course on these type of boards 'defenders of the faith" no matter what happens to anyone on a cruise. this comment on the drinks package is one of a number of many strangely disturbing happenings on this cruise. At least disturbing because the happenings seemed so much out of character to what is written on this very board in various places. So seeking advise from these boards rather gave a skewed version of the current truth.

As a number of staff said about the cruise, independently and privately "There are a lot of bad people on this ship and we are told to keep them happy first."

15 years a wine judge so I know what alcohol I like. Broadly speaking all I am seeing here is excuses for poor performance and behaviour by Celebrity. I guess that earns brownie points somewhere?

Always dress up for formal but I am sure that Celebrity enforces nothing. It was even very casual about using the hand sanitiser when entering restaurants and dining areas.

Ask what you like, we expected what we were promised, nothing more and nothing less. If you accept less than contracted for then you are suspect and you you believe that buying your way in by bribes (tips to get better than contracted service) then the system is a sham.

So you can deduce what you like. Reasonable people with worldly experience have a reasonable expectation of things, sheep follow the flock and accept what is dished up. We are just not sheep. PS Mesquite I did win the Outback eating challenge in your neighbourhood some time ago. Outback kept their promise and contract.

With respect my contract was with Celebrity not Cruise Critic. If Cruise Critic has such a list why could it not be supplied by Celebrity to me?

Note San Miguel was refused three times in the Oceanview Cafe. So is your list correct or was this cruise on the Equinox an exception?

"In Vegas, you want a good seat at a show a "tip" gets you one. No different."

This is one of those interesting flip comments. One our last trip to Vegas we had a certain level of loyalty to our hotel. We received, without bribery" everything that was expected and in fact more.

A careful review of many posts here seems to reveal.

1. Comments such as "I am not a brand person" when someone advises that promised brand names were not available. broadly this is acceptance that lies can be told about benefits.

2. The Vegas broadly shows that point 1 is supported by an indication that you can buy your way into anywhere on Celebrity regardless of what is advised promoted or declared as specific benefits by celebrity and its loyalty package. In fact itseems that bribery (gross over tipping) puts you ahead of the game.

3. In my simple country this is against the law.

4. It is also advised that employees are paid in board and keep plus a stipend rather than a real wage and rely on tipe to survive. Well there is a gratuities advice that we always pay and a 15% surcharge on drinks to help alleviate that and if you believe that a hot tip for the first round of drinks is helping their cause then you are sadly mistaken. It is imbedded practice and you become part of the perceived scam by doing it.

5. The so called loyalty program was visibly downgraded from day one. The invitations for our level were sent out on a sheet of paper with the advice that individual invitations would not be sent because it was saving the paper, or the world or something. And yet daily we were seemingly besieged with personal invitations to a sales function or something. You rather knew where you stood early in the process.

6. We rated the food as a five in the survey We have been to enough 3 Michelin star restaurants around the world to recognise good food. Oh sorry as someone said when I praised some food "so you have have only eaten in 3 star restaurants we always eat in 5 star restaurants in our town. that was said while dipping a great scallop dish into a platter that was a mixture of ketchup and something else that was indescribable. What more can be said?

Much of Celebrity met our expectations but the trimmings, the things that get the extra stars were bought by those who believe money solves everything. And the interesting thing is that astute staff knew this but could do nothing about it. Quality is not bought by splashing money in front of people and good service is bought by some at the expense of the minimum advertised bottom line of others. Well not in a reasonably society that is. In Celebrity society it is de rigueur.

"My only comment is that it is virtually impossible to list every dr k available regardless of package or not."

Permit this simple soul to ask: If a wine list containing hundreds of wines can be left on every third table of the main dining room why can't 3 or 4 drinks lists containing all the drinks available in a package be held at each of the 9 (as advised above) bars?

"Did you have a all inclusive package on the Radiance? Or did you pay as you ordered?"

We had a wine packages on the Radiance and paid for other drinks. Now if from some authority that you believe holding a drinks package on Equinox means a different quality of service to those paying for each drink then Celebrity may have some problems given their advertising on the matter.

"Of course, tips bring favors. From an experienced drinker that comes as no surprise and need not be mentioned."

Well to put it bluntly anything with class understands service in order or turn. If staff have to be induced to service correctly in such a "highly" rated ship then class and ratings become a joke. The staff are already tipped 15%, over this becomes privilege buying and is obviously the way on Celebrity. This DID not occur on the Radiance during our two cruises on that ship. Perhaps the captain and the senior officers ran a tighter operation and understood true service.

Rereading the replies let me make a number of clarifying points so it is abundantly clear.

1. Before taking the free Classic package I did ask Celebrity if a complete list of available drinks for the package would be available on the ship and was told absolutely YES. This did not happen.

2. We were perfectly happy with the contents of the package that we received.

3. We always knew that Celebrity would make a "profit" out of the package but the ease of the system noting point 1 above (if it was true) was extremely suitable.

4. A system by a number of passengers of rounding a bar, that is paying upfront tips to get preferential service over in turn customers, was observed on numerous occasions.

5. We are experienced enough to know what we like, when we like and what we like, we really don't have to waste busy bar keeps time in discussing what is best for us at a given time.

Hmm, well I guess we were just picky. I nguess it is too much ask for a customer to ask what exactly is available on a package rather than asking a barkeep for his suggestions. We were happy with the quality of what WAS available on the package but really would have liked to make our own mind up as to label etc from what we were "allowed". I guess we just come from the rare breed who likes to make up our own mind rather than being led.

I note my cruise review has not yet been posted perhaps certain things said were not acceptable to publish. Do we believe there is something "odd" on the Equinox? Well I guess we were lulled by two wonderful sailing under a great captain (no longer with RCI) on the Radiance and went for the "higher" rated Celebrity and the Equinox. Bad error of judgement on our part. You can always contact me privately to discuss.

Hmmm yes it should be simple but show me a bar list that shows ALL the drinks available rather than a select few. Certainly these lists were not available of the Equinox. Four requests were made and all were refused. Unless of course, like many other things on this cruise, you apparently had to slip someone something extra to get what should be standard. Like service when it is your turn not behind someone who flashes a bit of cash as an upfront tip.