truck1

truck1,

 

If you would prefer to pass on commenting on my post above, please say so.

 

ex techie

Im at work at the moment and got interupted a few times trying to type the response. See above.

Truck1,

 

come on, you know all of those behind the scenes videos are strictly controlled and edited to suit what the company has to say and want said.

as for "based on whats available at the time, and their location in the world" whats available at the cost price the company wants to pay.

I was told the crew food budget in the mess was $1.75 a day for 3 meals.....

 

And cutting down on different types of products as long as that doesn't harm the end product is the norm. But those pictures above show how the product has changed into a poorer product (at least in presentation).

 

And as of consolidating everything under one VP. How can one person maintain the same standard if they have their time spread over so many different areas?

They will ultimately lose focus on the non demanding areas and 'probably' only focus on the high cost areas and then standards slip.

 

ex techie

Looking at the food, yes I see the same things and noticed more then once being onboard. What I was referring to is that you may not be able to get say Maine lobster, if the Magic is in the Med. But, there may be an abundance of local Italian seafoods in its place. When the Wonder went to Hawaii, she probably had a more Hawaiin menu onboard, compared to what the Magic had in the Med. Whoever the head food person in Celebration was/is probably said were going to do this menu,(whether they came up with it, the Wonder came up with it whatever) and the head chef on the Wonder was responsible to make it happen. I doubt Celebration is telling its chefs take this do that, do this, then this in this order dont deviate. Most chefs I know of would tell Celebration where to go in no uncertain terms. Then leave. Most are artists in the kitchen. I will admit somee need more help then others.

As far as consolidating, in some cases yes I can see where it makes perfect sense, in the case of material for uniform pants, and bringing some like systems together. Using Karl Holz as an example, he is in overall charge. He has several people under him under each area, who are responsible for only that area, and have control over day to day operations. Karl Looks at long term, and works with those under him to make it happen. However, if they are not careful, there is a real danger of overtaxing the system. We have what is called a span of control. In theory, 1 person can handle up to as few as 3 and as many as 7 subordinates, with 5 being the optimum number. The caveat is that you have to recognize that 1 person may have more on their plate then can be handled, such as DCA, that person may be only responsible for that park until the construction and everything else is done. The ships are set up more or less the same way. I dont know numbers but you have 1 Capt, 1 first officer, several 2nd and 3rds and so on. Hotel side has a similar structure. The Capt each morning might only meet with say 6 people, but those 6 bring with them their entire areas. (Im guessing on numbers as an example) Then those 6 go back and talk to 4 people, who talk to 7 each, and in a short period of time, the Capt has expressed his plan to the entire crew.

The key is flexibility, and the ability for someone to say, hey this isnt working, and whoever is above him/her to say your right, what do we do to make it work.

Are standards suffering because of it? In some cases Id say yes. Not sure if you had to do this before joining the Magic, but when I worked for WDW, they had a 2 day Traditions class. First day was basically learning Disney philosophy, show, how to deal with certain things, using the famed 2 finger point, and more importantly learning the why behind a lot of things etc. Second day was going out looking for ways to improve and the 2nd half of the day you spent in the area you were assigned getting the basics etc.

Today its down to 1. And you can see the result in how many people just dont know about things in the parks anymore. The big thing I remember was if you dont know the answer to a question from a guest, find someone who does. Or find the answer. Dont make something up. Today they are down to 1 day.

I sent a email to DCL guest services asking a few specific questions, about the Dream after her announcement. Specifically, when she comes home from Germany, will she have paying guests onboard. I got a 3 page response with everything except for what I asked for. I got ship size,displacement, where she was sailing from, passenger count, Disney was excited etc. So my response was, you didnt answer these questions. and listed them. Got almost the same thing back. I gave up at that point. You cant fix stupid.

Property wide, I can see a lot of substandard Disney. The hitching posts on Mainstreet as an example. You can see where they have been chipped and painted over. It used to be they yould be sanded clean, and repainted, or bondoed to even things out and then repainted.

Another thing Ive noticed, especially lately is that the trend is for Disney to hire a lot of upper execs from outside the company. There was and probably still is a glass ceiling at Disney where back in the days of Walt, someone could start as a ride operator, and make it to the President of a park. Today they can only go so high before they are stopped. Its rare for someone within Disney to be continously promoted, which is slowly but sure diluting Walts original vision of Quality will always win out over quantity.

You said it yourself Techie. Look at the food.

I've been hearing about the cruise cabin glut for more than 15 years. Somehow the ships get built and the ships get filled, a sort of an Ocean of Dreams scenario.

Vegas is in trouble because of the perpetual recession, not because of a room glut. The crash of bookings happened at the same time ad the financial crisis. For come odd reason, when the economy looks bad on the horizon, gambling doesn't seem like a great idea for most.

Just thinking out loud, but I would look at it this way. For just about every ship that is built for a line, 1 is retired or reassigned to a lesser division for lack of a better term.

Ill use RCCL as a neutral example. As RCCL adds 1 ship, at least 1 ship is moved to Pullmantur as an example, and Pullmantur reassigns 1 to xyz and they in turn break 1 up. So on the surface it may look like a lot of available rooms, but in reality, the ship count is staying the same, and the room count may or in some cases most likely goes up but no by much.

Not making fun of you Truck1, but :D:p:D like they have a choice.....

 

Celebration make the choices after the bean counters have crunched the numbers and squeezed a little more out of the expenditure.

10000 sirloin steaks this week or 10000 stewing steaks? Mix them up and who will be able to prove the difference? After all, food is so subjectional.

I would be surprised the way they are going is they even use real cheese on the pizza's and not the whey substitute stuff now.

 

Money money money grabbing bastards at the top and no one at the top gives a **** anymore.

Just meet the minimum regs required, and do not step one inch over that as it will cost us profit and we will lose money on the shares we own, dividend payout and it could effect the shareholders.

Keep on smiling and smiling and pretend its all good stuff and the experience is great and they will keep on buying it!

 

 

 

ex techie

And having business units within the company to negotiate those great rates works sometimes for company that can negotiate great rates and do so within their scope of the business model.

 

And when the company gets big enough to provide they're own company providing the same service then great! Spending money within the business instead of buying the services of another company makes absolute sense!

 

Until those business units start competing with external contractors, and when they are locked in to only using within company business units, they start exploiting each other to make their bottom line look better, and the other business unit has no option but to use them knowing they can get the same or better service elsewhere for cheaper.

 

Welcome to the Walt Disney Company back 2000 and beyond.....

 

 

ex techie

When we were on the Fantasy in Oct, we watched the demand channel galley tour. They interviewed the head chef and head food and beverage for the line. The chefs have some leeway in what they get. Usually its based on whats available at the time, and their location in the world. They may be choosing from a set menu, but they still get choices.

If you ever get the chance, get the book, "10 Common Sense Leadership Strategies From a Life at Disney", by Lee Cockerell. It was his idea to consolodate a lot of items, and give the cms, some decision making abilities.

The way he explained it was say using french fires as an example. Say there were 15 different variations of fries being used on property. For arguments sake, well include the ships. The head of property food and beverage figures, we can get away with 5 variations, we can cut 10, and by buying those in higher bulk, it would save the company a significant amount of money. I forget the numbers he used off hand.

It also goes hand in hand with the overall consolodation. Karl Holz, is not just the DCL president. He has 3 or 4 combined areas under him, including DVC,ABD, Aulani. DCL is not its own division anymore like it used to. Basically the way its shown is that instead of a request from 1 department to go to another, instead of following the chain, up over and back down, the request goes and comes right back down. Its suposed to streamline operations as a whole. They basically took like divisions, and support groups, and combined them, for efficiency. Trasportation (busses, monorails, boats, PO boats, parking lots) maintanace paint shop, body shop,drydocks etc are all grouped together and answer to 1 VP now.

Im wondering if the consolidation of Disney has something to do with the food quality/selection, with all things being equal. By that I mean, what foods are in season and when, local flavors, time of year even the preferences of the head chef, and the head chefs on each ship.

Some time ago, Disney as a whole started to consolidate like items. Things like uniforms, foods, merchandise vendors. For example, say at 1 point Disney used 25 different styles of black pants. Someone figured out that they could bring that number down to 5, and therefor buy larger bulk and save money.

So, lets say that 10 years ago, there was 35 different styles of beef being served. If someone figured out that limiting it to 15 could be a considerable saving.............

Im not defending the process, though on paper it works for a lot of things.

I did notice probably about 10-12 years ago, the hamburgers changed, on the quick service menu. They went from a pretty good size burger, to the same burgers that can be found in the parks. Same thing with the personal pizzas. At the time, they were making me sick in the parks. Then I found them on the ships. Coming home from the ship when I noticed the change, I happened to see a WDW food semi heading for the ship.

Without having looked too far into the tech, I could see it either way.

On 1 hand, it would confirm that a person went over the side, and if foul play is involved, accidental etc. Even if the body was never found. (I dont want to get too graphic on that one) It could give a family some type of closure.

On the other hand, assuming that a person is noticed going over the side for what ever reason, and is spotted quickly enough, to that person and there families, its more then worth it.

With that said, I would want to think, that there are cameras already monitoring the sides of the hull. More for security reason then anything else. (I know that most ships have a camera on the stern usually somewhere around the flag pole or stern lights) It shouldnt be too hard that if a camera(s) picks up something out of the ordinary, that the camera not only zeros in on that location, but also flashes a warning until an operator looks over the camera and makes a determination. I know the emergency buttons on our radios do that exact thing to every screen in the dispatch center.

The million dollar question is, what are they actually using to spot a body over the side. Thermal has its limitations. Mirrors, windows,distance even water can fool a thermal imaging camera. Even using it to find someone yelling in the water, is hard. Been there done that.Its a literal needle in the haystack.

A laser field same thing. Waves and spray will fool that.

I havent had a chance to look over the article, but Id have to agree with Tonka. The best thing is to put it on a ship(s) and see what happens. If it catches everyone over the side. Great. Its well worth it and I doubt youll see that addition added to the cruise price. If it doesnt, then it would need work or adjustment. Kind of trial and error for lack of a better term.

Theres ways they can test it, without ever endangering a human. Crash test dummies come to mind.They can be warmed to the average body temp. Alot of times a ship will sit in the middle of the ocean to kill time at night. That would be a good time to drop a dummy over the side to see what happens. Or tied to a pier at night. The PC ships come in around 5/530. Thats a good time. Traffic is at a minumum, and its dark, and the ship is tied to a pier.

If I had to hazzard a guess, an interested line could have the maker come out and do some type of demo.(and I dont mean a video demo. An actual put a camera up, throw a dummy over the side, and see what the result is. ) We do it all the time with trucks, and equipment. Id be curios to see what the results are.

I'm sorry to hear you report that Truck.

I hope the kid survived.

 

 

ex techie

I remember the kid who jumped off in port. They caught him because he tried to get back onto the ship, dripping wet, without his room card. He was uninjured. That must have been 15 years ago now.

 

 

Autocorrect responsible for most typos...

Thats the one. He did survive, though I think Capt John got a hold of him and his parents, and he was pretty much under adult supervision the rest of the cruise. I remember seeing it either on a FB post from another board member or another board.

It is hard to feel sorry for people that get so drunk they think it is a good idea to see if they can swim or jump off.

Amazing that they make it to the water level in one piece!

But there are also those that try to end their lives, those that end up overboard because of others actions.

Civilized countries provide assistance to those too dumb, intoxicated or too desperate to rescue them.

 

And it was great that the Wonder was able to rescue that Guest from another ship by chance.

 

ex techie

This particular darwin award winner, apparently got into a fight with his wife/gf/lover/....miss right now. I think he did have too much to drink, and apparently told the woman Im going to jump. she said OK. So he did. considering where the balcony rooms on the sensation Class are, Im really surprised he wasny pulled under by suction.

I completely understand both of your reservations to additional costs added to the cruise fare.

IFAIK, DCL has only ever had one MOB incident that has never been confirmed: http://www.rebecca-coriam.com/

 

ex techie

Theres been at least 3 that I know of. Rebecca, and 2 others in port.

1 was a kid that jumped over the side on a dare, and someone else that fell or jumped from one of the upper decks on the Wonder. The person fell past my grandparents cabin, and we saw the body being placed in the ambulance on our way to Atlantis that night in Nassau.

Its a good job the Wonder didn't wait until this guy was actually spotted before launching the rescue boat/lifeboat!

 

http://afterthemouse.com/node/2448

 

ex techie

Ah, but they had audio indication that the man was close. They most likely also used a search light after getting the ship stopped and quieted to pick him out, because you can't see s**t while sitting in a rescue boat (visibility in the day of maybe a hundred yards, and picking out a floating head isn't easy.

I was on that cruise. It was dumbluck that we (the Wonder) happened to come up on that course. We could hear that Darwin attempt, but because of the acoustics at sea, they couldn't tell which direction he was in. If IRC, the MOB was on the Wonders ports side, and the Sensation was a few hundred yards in front of us, also on our port side. He was picked up not more then 300 feet from the Wonder, probably at least 1000 from the Sensation.

We got off the Fantasy on the 26th of Oct. Onboard is a few on demand shows like tour the kitchens, engine room etc. On the kitchen tour, they basically said that the menus on the ships, are defined by the time of year, location,(Port Canaveral or Italy for example) availability of foods,(is the fruit in season, or that seafood in season etc). There might be some things on the menu that are the same but Id wager that most are different.

Makes complete sense to me. The last couple trips I thought there were some families that were abusing the privilege, if you will. One thing is to let kids "personalize" their staterooms, a whole different thing is to decorate them like a parade float. And I do not blame disney for new rules.

I dont blame them either. At some point, DCL is going to have to make a rule(s) that is in their best interest, or in the best interest of their customers. Like it or not, they are a business.

Im not surprised, and not upset. When we were on the Magic in 2010, we noticed on our door, outlines where other people had placed different things on the door that apparently was damaging the painted surface. Looking at the other doors we noticed the same thing. I can see for Disney where the cost of constantly repainting the doors can get expensive over time. In reality, using magnets really isnt that much of an

inconvenience.

If she isn't broken up, she'll be sold to the highest bidder and become a livestock carrier running out of Saudi Arabia, Egypt or India.

 

They tend to buy up wrecks and run them into the ground in a different guise to their original use. She would made a decent livestock carrier too, once her holes and gashes are sorted.

 

Unless the ship is worthy of razorblades, they go for conversion...especially with the price of secondhand steel being so volatile. Even the venerable old Flamenco that was sold for scrap 3 years ago has resurfaced this week running out of Thailand on 3-4 day cruises to Cambodia...and when I saw her in 2010 she was an absolute wreck in lay up off Port Klang.

 

If they can get Concordia to float, she can be reused somewhere.

Its in the salvage plan that the ship is going to be righted, floated and towed to an Italian yard, then disposed of acording to Italian regulations. At least thats the plan. Either way, shes going to be scrap metal never to sail again. At this point its up to the insurance company(ies).

It doesn't always work, though.

 

I read a report of a family (2 rooms: mom & dad & 1 kid in one room, Grandma & Grandpa & 1 kid in the other). They had their embarkation pictures (the one they use for the facial recognition)taken with Mom & Dad & 2 kids in one picture, Grandma & Grandpa in different picture. Both used the same KTTW card.

:)

Thats why right there. Since there were 2 different pics, the facial rec program associated 2 different sets of people with 2 different rooms. For what ever the reason, when we were on the Fantasy in March, we kept getting another families pics with ours. And we got 3 different stories why. It almost took and act of Mickey to correct.

If they had 1 photo taken with everyone, and use only 1 card, I think things would have worked differently. Which is what I was implying. It may work and it may not. I honestly dont know.

I think the only way to get around it, is that you put all of the pitures under 1 room card. Theres 2 ways the photos work. 1 is facial recognition. The other is room card. When you walk up to a ships photog, they ask for a KTTW card, scan hand it back and take however many pics. The facial recognition comes from the boarding photo before you board. If you take a group picture, and dedicate 1 kttw to that pic, you might get around it. But, youd have to use that same kttw card for each picture session onboard.

It depends on the area they are assigned/contracted for.From what I understand, its alot like the parks and college program.

Tip oriented areas such as wait staff, and room stewards, generally get a fairly low base pay, and the balance is made up in tips.As posted above.

Areas such as guest relations,or entertainment get a higher base pay since they do not have a tip oportunity.Other areas that you dont ever see such as laundry personel or cooks would be in the same group.

I think, though I cant swear to it off hand, that Disney may take a certain amount back, for room and board.Much like the college program.They also pay for things like alcohol onboard, and things from a crew only store.

Just to add to the above statement, after June 1st, the birth certificate rule applies to childeren under 16 only, on closed loop cruises.( A cruise that leaves and returns to a US port) If at all possible, the easier document to carry would be a passport, since the rule applies to cruises only. If you want to travel to say Europe for a European Disney cruies, youll need one anyway. Also, if you have an issue in any foreign port, youll need one to board a flight home.

I have seen the issue pop up several times in threads, so I figured Id post this. This is the link to the US Passports Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative regarding travel on cruises etc. Please keep inmind this change on a fairly regular basis, so next year there could be something different.

WHTI

Heres a printed version of what is there regarding children since that appears to be the number one issue lately.

LAND AND SEA TRAVEL

The following summarizes information available on the Department of Homeland Security’s website.

• CURRENTLY:
  All U.S. citizens must show proof of identity and proof of U.S. citizenship when entering the United States from Canada, Mexico, Bermuda and the countries of the Caribbean by land or sea.
   
  Acceptable documents include: U.S. Passport Book, U.S. Passport Card, or other document approved by the Department of Homeland Security.
   
  U.S. citizens who do not have a single document verifying identity and citizenship must present both an identification and citizenship document; for example, a driver’s license and a copy of a birth certificate or naturalization certificate.
  
• LATER:
  On June 1, 2009, the U.S. government will implement the full requirements of the land and sea phase of WHTI. The proposed rules require most U.S. citizens entering the United States at sea or land ports of entry to have a passport, passport card, or other travel document approved by the Department of Homeland Security.
  
  • CHILDREN: U.S. citizen children under the age of 16 will be able to present the original or copy of their birth certificate, or other proof of U.S. citizenship such as a naturalization certificate or citizenship card.
     
    Groups of U.S. citizen children ages 16 through 18, when traveling with a school or religious group, social organization, or sports team, will be able to enter under adult supervision with originals or copies of their birth certificates or other proof of citizenship. See the Department of Homeland Security's GetYouHome.gov for more information on the changing travel requirements.
    

U.S. PASSPORT AND WHTI COMPLIANT DOCUMENTS:

U.S. Passport: U.S. citizens may present a valid U.S. passport when traveling via air, land or sea between the U.S. and the aforementioned Western Hemisphere countries.

The U.S. Passport Card: We began production of the U.S. Passport Card on July 14, 2008. The passport card is only valid for re-entry into the United States at land border crossings and sea ports-of-entry from Canada, Mexico, the Caribbean region, and Bermuda.

WHTI-Compliant Travel Documents for U.S. citizen travel via land or sea, as of January 31, 2008:

Trusted Traveler Cards (NEXUS, SENTRI, or FAST)

State Issued Enhanced Driver's License (when available)

Enhanced Tribal Cards (when available)

U.S. Military Identification with Military Travel Orders

U.S. Merchant Mariner Document when traveling in conjunction with official maritime business

Native American Tribal Photo Identification Card

Form I-872 American Indian Card

Do they do the graduation on the 4 night?

 

Can you bring a bottle of wine and/or champagne on board?

 

Any pros/cons of late seating with a 5 & 4 year old?

 

What deck do you embark on?

 

How early should we be at the port?

 

What do they do on Pirate's night at dinner?

Do they do the graduation on the 4 night?

As of September they did. I dont see that changing anytime in the near future.

Any pros/cons of late seating with a 5 & 4 year old?

Depends on the children. If they are used to a late dinner, no big deal.

Theres always different palces to get a snack if they cant wait till dinner.

Can you bring a bottle of wine and/or champagne on board?

As far as I know yes, but someone who has more knowledge in this area can answer.

What deck do you embark on?

Deck 3 midships

How early should we be at the port?

Depends on you. You can be there as early as 1000 and be one of the first on the ship. Or if you choose to be one of the last you can get there later. I beleive that the latest anyone can board is around 330ish. Keep in mind that if you board later, there will be some lines for the buffets for lunch. Or if you get there at 1000, you will have time to kill in the term. You can leave and come back, but if you go across the street to your car say, youll have to be rescreened.

1100 is not a bad time as you can get in, get checked in, and not have too much of a wait to board.

What do they do on Pirate's night at dinner?

They have a dinner themed after Pirates in the Carribean. With out spoiling it for you, its alot of fun and entertaining. If you or your children have pirates clothing, that would be the night to wear it.If not they supply bandanas for everyone.

Heres a few before you board tips:

When you pack, put a few things into a small carry on or a backpack. Like a change of clothes in case of unexpected weather, or a bathing suit.Also put in what ever is valuable like jewelry, and paperwork, passports etc.

The backpack comes in handy for excursions etc.

When you are traveling to the port, heres a fun game to keep the kids occupied. After the speed limit change on the 528 where it splits to go to KSC or to the port, keep watching slightly to the left as you get closer to the port.When you climb one of the hills, you can see the ships in port.

Keep a camera handy, as you will never know who or what youll see. When we were on the 4 day in Sept, we almost got run over by Chip in Dale while we were waiting for an elevator before the ship left port. 2 minutes later, we shared a glass elevator with Minnie. There was no one else around.

Speaking of cameras, if you have a digital camera, back up your pictures often. I backup mine in 2 places daily. We had dinner with a family that had camera issues and they lost all of their pics for the previous month.Carry an extra card for your camera so if you do have an issue, you can swap cards without affecting your memories.

If you have a standard 35 mm film camera, make sure you take film with you. Shutters no longer carries film and no longer does onboard processing.One of the onboard stores still carries film, but I would not be surprised to see it gone in the future.

If you have a wireless laptop, and a regional provider, (like Verizon)be carefull of what connection you use. Disney has onboard wireless, and will charge you for the service.You will know if you get Disneys signal as it will pop up a page that will require you to choose a plan.

If you want to purchase a gift such as a sailaway pack, make sure you order prior to 48 hours before the ship sails.5oopm est for the 4 day that leaves on Sun. These are provided by an outside company and not Disney.(This is printed on the bottom of the order page, in really small print and easy to miss.) If you miss the deadline, print off the catalog page, and bring it with you to the terminal. Go to the back of the terminal to the gift shop in the snack shop, and show them what you want. If not go to Guest Services, onboard, before the ship leaves port,and you can order there also, as there are generally a few extras brought out to the ship.

This one I cannot stress enough.

READ THE NAVIGATOR AND READ IT OFTEN!

The Navigator, has everything that you need to know in it from arrival times to charachter meet and greets.