prwjr

Those were pretty cool... I think that's about the only way you can see an air show where they break the sound barrier! Sure is different than a cruise ship!

 

Thanks for sharing! My camera was not working when I was on my Tiger Cruise... :(

 

Theron

Hey Theron,

You must surely regret that your camera was not operable. Do you have a Sailor or Marine in your family?

And yes...a Tiger Cruise is much different than a pleasure cruise...but anyone can buy a ticket on a cruise ship...a cruise on a US Navy warship is by invitation only.

Enjoy your day...

Paul

Hey I just noticed your sig... did you do a Tiger cruise? I got to ride USS Hue City from Mayport to Baltimore about 15 years ago... I discovered that 2.5 days is about as long as you'd want to be on a Navy ship... :)

 

Theron

Yes...I did a Tiger Cruise and it was OUTSTANDING!!! I was on the ship for 4 days and still couldn't find my way around when I got off the ship!!! There are always alot of things going on...on an aircraft carrier.

If you are interested you can check out the following links to still photos on Kodak Gallery and videos on YouTube...

Still photos: http://www.kodakgallery.com/I.jsp?c=iopr9ig.sjhp0zs&x=0&h=1&y=-kctkzr

Videos:

Have a great day!!! I always enjoy reading your posts...

Paul

Hi Paul,

 

I have read the reasons for the permanent exception to the passport rule, and I think they do make some sense. Having said that, it wouldn't bother me greatly if the exception didn't exist, but I do believe it would hurt the cruise industry, and I think it's plainly obvious to anyone who cares to assess the whole national security situation that at least for now, money is more important than security.

 

Theron (feeling a little bit like a civics teacher!)

Hey Theron,

I believe that we agree to agree!!! I understand the low-risk associated with round trip cruise passengers departing from and returning to the US, providing those passengers have the required documentation. Perhaps the new rule was developed with RT cruise passengers traveling within the WHTI in mind. I also understand the detriment to the cruise industry for requiring a valid Passport, in that the cost of the Passport is an added expense. I maintain that national security is of the utmost importance and if a traveler leaves the US to visit a foreign country, when that traveler returns to the US, proper, verifiable, authentic documents should be presented.

I received my first US Passport in 1969. I received my second US Passport in 2007. I didn't get my second Passport with the intention of traveling abroad. I obtained the Passport because I felt that it would soon become the best available and a neccessary form of ID.

Paul from NJ

 

It seems to me that much like some of the mainstream media with their various social causes, these writers also have their own agenda (namely that every traveler who leaves the US should be required to get a passport)

 

Theron

I am by no means 'mainstream media' nor do I have a 'social cause' but I do have an agenda and a belief that every traveler that RETURNS to the US should be required to have a US Passport. It is a matter of national security. If a traveler LEAVES the US to go to another country, it is the responsibility of that country to protect its security by whatever means that country feels necessary to do so. I live in the US, so I am concerned about our homeland security, I would think that any other law abiding citizen would feel the same way. If you never leave the US you will not need to have a US Passport, if you do leave this country and return, then it is my opinion that the traveler should be required to have a US Passport.

Paul from New Jersey

The more I read about this Passport debacle, the more I am inclined to believe that a Passport should be REQUIRED for anyone going to a foreign country and more importantly, returning to the US. The Passcard would be convenient for those who work in Canada and Mexico traveling out of the US from a border state. For any other occasional or recreational traveler...a Passport should be required...PLAIN & SIMPLE. That would certainly make the rules and regulations less complicated.

Our national security is of more importance than the fact that the 'occasional' traveler is reluctant to obtain a Passport because of the additional costs involved.

Any ID document can be forged...but it is much easier to forge a D/L or B/C, than it would be to forge an e-Passport with a biometric chip.

Just my opinion...

Hi Paul,

 

Maui was great, although now I am back I have a mountain of things to catch up on so the Hang Loose attitude has pretty much disappeared already :)

 

As for the 'copy of a birth certificate' question : Early on in the final rule document, there is a footnote that says "Citizenship documents generally include birth certificates issued by a United States jurisdiction, Consular Reports of Birth Abroad, Certificates of Naturalization, and Certificates of Citizenship".

 

Which means that any copy of a birth certificate must also be issued by a United States jurisdiction, and not your local Kinko's. So anyone choosing to continue to travel on a cruise with just a BC and DL, understand that a photocopy will not do. Must be issued by that US jurisdiction...AKA a certified copy. ;)

 

FYI--Carolyn Spencer Brown told me via email they are working on a new feature article on this subject for tomorrow's main page and news.

Well iffin' you were at the peak of Haleakala at this moment, you would still have a mountain of things to conquer when you returned...but at least you would have been there...done that!!! Hang Loose!!!

I understand your point about the language used 'early on in the final rule document', however, I tried to get to the 'bottom line', in the ruling, as it were, and I seriously doubt that your average traveler will be willing to wade through 151 pages of governmental gibberish in order to make sure that they have the proper travel ID documents.

That having been said, I would say that it is up to the individual traveler, to make sure that they have the proper documents for travel to and from their destination.

Neither you nor I can overstate the ultimate value of having a valid Passport Book...a 'Passcard' is great...but a Passport Book is GREATER.

Welcome back Cheryl!!!

The DHS/State have issued the final rule for passports.

 

http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/whti_landseafinalrule.pdf

:)

It certainly is a lengthy document. I note that on Page 90, it says the following:

 

And as always, a passport is a smart travel tool; just as travel insurance gives you peace of mind, so does having a passport, even if it is not absolutely required.

Cheryl...how was your recent trip? Nice I hope. I'm sure your all refreshed for another year!!! lol

Best regards,

Paul

One and the same, and boy am I looking forward to it :)

Well... my 15 yr old daughter wanted to visit her sister over spring break but the airlines and flights to Hawaii are jammed this week...so you will be there with lots of 'spring breakers'...could be worse though...you could be in NJ like me!!!

Enjoy your trip...

Paul

LOL, Theron-They probably got lots more calls on the fuel supplement! :eek:

 

The change on the Passport FAQ page was rather subtle; from " as soon as mid-2008" to "as early as June 2009". I expect it will take a while for pax to start asking about this, and perhaps THEN they will get new instructions issued to the CVPs.

Hey Cheryl...It's too difficult for me to keep following this Passport issue...one hand doesn't know what the other is doing...and when you think you have the game figured out...the rules change. I'll worry about the issue in another 9 1/2 years...but my advice remains...same as yours...the traveler should put his or her mind to rest and GET THE PASSPORT.

Enjoy your upcoming trip to Napili Point...is this the same Napili Point...as in Maui??? My 18 yr old daughter is living with a US Navy Sailor in Oahu.

Take care,

Paul

I'm glad DH and I got our passports for our last cruise and don't have to worry about when we'll HAVE ot have one.

$100 apiece seems expensive, but when you consider that they'e good for 10 years, $10 a year does not sound like much as all (Most cruiser spend more than that on over-door organizers, Bungee cords, and highlighters).:D

Simply said: Agreed

I think that regardless of whether or not Passports will ever be required for sea travel to a WHTI country and you don't 'plan' to have an emergency at home while in a foreign country, then don't get a Passport. But who 'plans' to have an emergency?...they happen and if you need to return to the US by air you will want to have a Passport so that your return will not be hampered or delayed by not having sufficient documentation.

Just my opinion...

Paul from New Jersey

Ps. And I don't work for any government agency...so I'm not trying to 'sell' Passports for the government!!! lol

 

P.S. I saw the page you link, but it does not mention anything about the passport requirement being pushed out to June 2009, so I didn't think it particularly pertinent to this thread.

The following is an excerpt from a page within the CBP website:

Know Your Destination Country Document Requirements

It is strongly recommended that all travelers leaving the U.S. verify the specific documentary requirements for their destination country. This information is available through the Department of State website or by consulting with the Embassy of the country you are visiting to determine what documents are needed to meet the entry requirements of that country. ( Cambios Importantes en los Documentos Requeridos para Viajes Internacionales Terrestres y Marítimos ) These requirements could include a birth certificate, passport, or passport and visa for entry into that country.

We are implementing new procedures to better serve you and enhance the security of the United States.

Travelers who do not present one of the documents listed may be delayed as U.S. Customs and Border Protection officers attempt to verify their citizenship and identity.

Thank you for your cooperation.

U.S. Customs and Border Protection will begin the transition to the Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative secure document requirement over the next 18 months, with implementation as early as June 1, 2009.

All this passport info is making my head swim:confused: !!!

 

We are on RCCL May 12, and we keep going back and forth as to weather or not to get our passports.........it seams as tho as soon as we have decided one way or another some more information pops up that changes our minds:eek: !!

 

Right now we are set on NO passports....however we are unsure as to how good of an idea that really is?!?!!?!?

 

This will be our frist cruise and we are very unsure...I know advice has been given for similar situations however any advice would be greatly appreciated!!

Personally, I would obtain US Passport Books. If you plan to travel again within the next 10 years, you will want to have a Passport, since a Passport is valid for 10 years, and the longer you wait, the cost will certainly increase.

You could also obtain a less expensive US Passcard, however, it is not valid for returning to the US from a foreign country, by air travel.

In the event you were to have the occurence of an unforseen event or emergency back home, and need to travel by air, you will want to have a US Passport Book, otherwise your entry into the US may be delayed to verify your US Citizenship.

Check out the following Government websites for further information:

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cbpmc/cbpmc_2223.html

http://www.dhs.gov/xtrvlsec/

http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/vacation/ready_set_go/land_travel/chnge_in_proced.xml

My husband and I just got passports for us and our daughter. I had a passport as a child but it was long ago expired. For NEW applicants the fees we were charged are as follows: Adult $75 plus $25 execution fee and for a child it was $60 plus the $25 execution fee. We had our photos done at the post office but I have heard Walgreens does them pretty cheap. It is an additional $60.00 to expedite (3 wk) per passport. The average time for a passport is (4-6wks) regularly. Also, if you are getting your child's passport, BOTH parents must be there or have a notorized paper saying why one is not. Also it is recommended and sometimes madatory that you have a notorized paper allowing one parent or relative permission by the other to take a child out of the country. In my case, my husband can not go on the cruise so we have to have a paper NOTORIZED saying he is giving me permission to take our child on the specific cruise and that I (and other family members) have his permission to authorize medical care in an emergency. Also, if you have an amended birth cert. for a child you will need the legal paperwork to send in as well. This goes for adoptions (foreign, step-parent, etc) or name changes. Hope this helps. I was also told that passports are mandatory for all cruises that go to Mexico, Bahamas, and the Caribbean as well as the usual foreign countries. Hope this helps.

Just FYI and all readers...the document for taking your minor child out of the US with only one birth parent traveling is referred to as: "Affidavit of Parental Consent For Travel Outside of the United States of a Minor Child Without Both Birth Parents Traveling". The document needs to be signed by both parents and notarized by a Notary Public.

The form is widely available in blank form, that you fill out, over the internet.

I have used the form several times, but as recent as November 2007, I was not asked for the form, although I had it in my possession. This may be because my minor daughter's last name on her birth certificate and my last name are the same. I could forsee a problem if parent and child names are NOT the same.

Thanks for your input and happy traveling!!!

Sabrina,

 

That is what I remembered off the top of my head...Paul, Tom, have you guys got anything to add to the list?

Very well done Cheryl!!! I continue to think that you are doing a great service to and for the traveling public. A word to the wise should always be sufficient.

I think that you have covered all of the 'pros' for having a US Passport to travel outside of the US and return thereto. The 'cons' are certainly the costs associated with obtaining a Passport, particularly for children, in which the Passport is only valid for 5 years, however, after obtaining your initial Passport, it will be much easier to renew one that has recently expired. There is no doubt in my mind, that a valid US Passport, is 'the only way to fly'...anywhere...or...in the words of a credit card commercial..."Don't leave home without it".

Thank you again for your continued help and informative input for the traveling public.

Paul from NJ

Tom,

 

Again, thanks for taking the time to ponder these questions with your co-workers.

Wow! Cheryl,

You are certainly putting a lot of thought into your questions and concerns...for the welfare of the traveling public.

I think that it would be difficult for Tom to answer your questions with any sort of certainty or reliability, which having said that, I intend no disrespect to Tom, you, or anyone. I think that you are asking questions in which you, or the individual traveler, would receive an answer that is discretionary on the part of the particular agent with whom the individual traveler is faced with at the time.

I also think that the answers to your questions are more of a legal matter, and that the answers to, should be available as a public record, available for all to see. So to publish the opinion of one individual working for a governmental agency would be a disservice to the traveling public.

I just returned from my County Courthouse and my local IRS office concerning an IRS issue. I can tell you that the Federal Government offices, especially the IRS, are not on the same page...the personnel 'pass the buck'.

You are correct in saying that to change a SS Card, that you need to provide a Marriage Document, Divorce Decree, et. al. Those 'new' requirements are available at: http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/ssa.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=315

I don't have an answer to your questions...other than that you, Tom and I agree...that having a US Passport BOOK, is the only way to travel.

Thanks again for your concern and advice for the traveling public.

Paul from NJ

just my thoughts....big brother is watching....pass ports will be a must for ALL forms of travel---JUST NOT YET!!! follow the rules as they are 'NOW'....and you need not worry about getting stuck in a 'THIRD WORLD COUNTRY LIKE BERMUDA', if you get ill. if you have cruise or travel plans---just follow the rules as they are 'NOW'. and enjoy yourself....ANYONE ELSE AGREE? OR AM I ALONE???

Well I agree with having a Passport Book to travel and eventually it will be a necessity. The rules 'now' don't require a passport but I felt it made more sense to get it sooner rather than later since the cost has recently gone up and surely will again in the future as well as the time it takes to obtain one when crunch time comes.

'Big Brother' should be watching out for criminals and terrorists and the law abiding traveling public should be glad that 'Big Brother' is out there watching.

I certainly agree with you here; there may come a time this year (could be May) that some state's DL will NOT be accepted as a 'government issued picture ID'. So instead of saying "BC/DL" I will have to add an asterisk that says something like "unless you come from one of the 17 states not complying with the REAL ID act and then you need another picture ID, such as a federally issued ID card. Or a passcard or passport."

Hey Cheryl,

I certainly agree with the efforts to maintain national security by traveling citizens having proper ID. Since I live in NJ and recently obtained a 'digital' DL, I am still concerned with whether or not this recently obtained DL will be compliant with an 'Enhanced DL' or 'Real ID' requirements, if and when these regulations are implemented.

Obtaining a 'Passcard', although being less expensive than a US Passport Book, makes little sense to me since it is only good for "travel by land and sea between the US and Canada, Mexico, Bermuda, and the Caribbean, only". If your gonna spend the money and effort to get a 'Passcard' just spend the extra money and get the Passport Book. Passcards will not be available to be mailed to a recepient until Spring 2008...you would receive a Passport Book in less time.

I am not a wealthy person...and I understand that the majority of the travelling public is not wealthy either. It just makes sense to me that if you were to get ill in Bermuda, e.g. and had to return to the US by air and did not have a Passport Book, that your return to the US could be significantly delayed in order to verify your citizenship.

Thank you Cheryl for your continued advice and updates for the travelling public.

Paul

Paul,

Oh no, I did not take it that way at all....:). I just was trying to help out the Weatherman by pointing him(?) to the DHS site, so at least he could have the correct site to reference...you understand I am sure, because so many people mean well by referencing the State Dept site. And that gets you into the aforementioned mess of the full rules vs. summarized rules.

 

I am afraid the upcoming REAL ID issues could be the source of many more confused travellers, for just the exact reasons you stated.

 

Cheryl

Hey Cheryl,

It is very confusing wandering through the rules and regulations of required travel documents. You have done well in trying to advise the traveling public with travel ID requirements.

I think that the 'Real ID' issues will be less of a problem once you have obtained a passport and therefore you and I continue to maintain that having a US Passport will ensure a 'smooth ride' through the documentation verification process...no matter where you are traveling to or from. Interestingly enough, despite the new electronic passport, which I have, I have yet to see an airport equipped with the technology to process the passport as such. Those airports include Newark, NJ, Jacksonville, FL, Miami, Fl, & Norfolk, VA.

Apparently slow work takes time!!!

Thank you for your input and help for travellers. I appreciate reading any of your posts.

Have a GREAT day,

Paul from NJ

I can make it a little easier for you Weatherman; here is the DHS site on the matter (CPB is part of DHS). State Dept. defers to DHS for the regulations.

http://www.dhs.gov/xtrvlsec/crossingborders

 

Having a passport is wise and useful in an emergency, but for your cruise, your friends will be fine to cruise with a certified BC and state DL. Please ensure that they are using certified BC's, not hospital-issued certificates.

Hi Cheryl,

I hope that you don't think that I was trying to 'dis' you by what I said on not relying on info. provided by posters in a travel forum. You are certainly most helpful and well versed in documentation requirements to travel outside and return to the US. My point was that proper travel documentation is the responsibility of the traveler and each traveler should check with the proper authority to ensure that they have the proper documentation well before the scheduled date of travel.

I enjoy reading and learning from your posts of informative information for unwary travelers, particularly since the 'rules of travel documents required' seem to change rather frequently...depending upon which Government website you go to.

As always a pleasure...

Paul from NJ

If anyone can weigh in on this I would appreciate it.

We (4 friends) are traveling on the May 26-30th sailing on the Monarch of the Seas..RCCL-it does go to mexico and 2 of us don't have passports but do have birth certificates. Will that be enough? I'm so confused by all the rules changing... I know they can still apply for it, but just curious. Thanks!

Personally, I have a Passport...so I am not in your party's dilemma and therefore don't have the worries that your companion travelers may have.

I would check with RCCL, the US Dep't of State, US Dep't of Homeland Security, and US Customs and Border Protection websites to get the correct answer.

Don't rely on the advice of someone that posts in a travel forum to assure that your trip will happen with the proper ID required.

That's the best advice that I can give to anyone aside from...anyone in your party that doesn't have a US Passport...has time to obtain one before your trip.

Do yourself a favor...and make the Passport happen...unless this is the last trip that any one in your party plans to take.

Paul from NJ

Hey yall, its new girl who only has 5 more months of questions for yall LOL!

 

Ok Ive called the cruiseline (Carnival) and they told me that my boys and I do NOT need passports to cruise. I thought ok, great.

 

Then I called the district clerks office and the post office where passports are issued and they both told me we are required to have passports to cruise.

 

We don't go until July.....my Vacation planner knows this and she said it didnt matter, but why am I getting two different answers?? :confused:

My advice: Get the Passports...whether or not you ever plan to travel again. Sometime...on a non-specific date in the future...you will need to have a Passport to travel outside and return to the US. The rules change continually. The only thing that is certain is that eventually...you will need the Passport. Don't torture yourself knowing or not knowing that you have the proper ID. I got a Passport and don't have any plans to travel outside the US, in the near future, either by land, sea, or air...but if I have to or do...I have the Passport. Take Cheryl's advice and keep informed through the US Department of State, Department of Homeland Security, and US Customs and Border Protection websites for the latest information.

Enjoy your trip!!!

Thanks to Paul for posting the prices here; they have been the subject of much discussion on other threads, as has the new application form. The forms themselves no longer have the price on them; allowing for price increases as needed without formal revision of the application form.

Thanks Cheryl...for the thanks. It appears obvious that proper travel documentation will remain an important issue,as well it should be. There are many cliches that cover this scenario including: "He who hesitates is lost", and "Caveat Emptor" or "Let the buyer beware".

Thanks for your continued pursuit of making the travelling public aware.

Best Regards,

Paul

Razor--which article are you referring to? There was a Feature dated 1/28, but it does not state passports are required now. (It does mistakenly state that passports will be required eventually--failing to take into account the cruise exception for the final phase of the WHTI).

 

Regardless, take your passport when you travel, it is the gold standard for verifying both citizenship and ID. One does not need any other document unless perhaps a visa within the passport for a country that requires a visa ( Canada does not).

Well...not surprising to me...when I walked into my local US Post Office this evening, there was a notice posted indicating that effective February 1, 2008, US Passport fees have increased. Pretty good timing I would say... since the new WHTI ID requirements became effective January 31, 2008.

The new US Passport fees stated in the notice (verbatim) are as follows:

For regular service:

Age 16 and under.........$85.00

Age 16 and over..........$100.00

For expedited service:

Age 16 and under.........$161.25

Age 16 and older..........$176.25

My advice continues to be...if you plan to travel ANYWHERE...get the Passport ASAP. When the new regulations become effective in 'Summer 2009', there is no doubt in my mind, that the cost of obtaining a Passport will increase again, particularly when at that time there will be a 'mad' rush to obtain a Passport and the waiting time will consequentally increase.

"Economics 101"...When the demand for a commodity increases...so does the cost of the commodity."