whitecap

Does anyone know if the Caribbean Princess is still scheduled for a dry dock in October 2024 and if it is, what changes, if any, are coming? 

6 minutes ago, TRLD said:

Let me repeat again.

 

Because 1. all.of the money goes into the pool except for cc charges. So we know the money all goes to employees in the pool.  Yes the money goes to employees with no way to confirm "your room steward" will be one of the chosen ones.

 

2. That Steward is working under a contract that says he participates in the pool and gets his part of it.  So no matter his performance, he gets his share regardless?  You may think he did a great job but someone at corporate may have a different opinion.

 

What is unknown is exactly what the cut is for any given position (Steward  vs waiter for example) and what bonuses any individual might have gotten in addition to their cut.  Exactly, no one knows how, how much, or who.

 

You seem to be asking the same question over and over like you think that Princess just distributes the money on a total adhoc basis and could just not give someone their portion. Which is not so.  So you are under the impression that every Princess employee, per their contract, gets a share, no matter their performance. Interesting.  I would bet you a dinner meal in the buffet that you are not correct.  😁

9 minutes ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

If you feel the need to have definitive proof, perhaps you could ask your room steward whether they receive payments from the crew appreciation pool?

 

Perhaps at the same time you might ask the Captain if they have been paid their salary that month.  After all, crew salaries are paid from a pool of monies paid by customers and its at the sole discretion of Princess whether they pay staff salaries or not, so maybe they don't.

Now that is funny....Ok, I have reconsidered all that some of you have said and I have decided that:  I will continue to remove the gratuities and handed out "tips" to those aboard my ship who do a really good job of making my vacation wonderful.  As for anyone else, keep putting your money into the pool and hope that the captain did get his paycheck and isn't actually taking the ship home to hold as a lien!  😃

1 minute ago, TRLD said:

Pretty clear such payments are part of their employment contract.

Let me try one last time:  If your paid gratuities goes into a pool and Princess, at their sole discretion, decides who gets a slice of the pie, how do you know that your room steward, who did a wonderful job, got a slice?  

3 minutes ago, TRLD said:

Depends upon how you mean actually received.

 

The fact that all of the money going into the pool, except for credit card fees, is paid out to members of the pool is pretty certain based upon accounting rules and financial filings.

 

That there is a formula that determines allocation by position is also pretty certain.

 

Exactly what that formula is, is not public, and exactly what percentage is allocated to bonuses, vs core allocation is not published.

 

The fact that the crew contracts, for those that a pool eligible, include language that a portion of their compensation is from the pool is known.

 

Exactly how much any one employee gets from the pool would not be known, just as  what any employee in any given company makes would not be public.

 

So in summary based upon accounting regulations and maritime employee contract law we can be certain that 1. the monies received except for actual credit card fees do go to members of the pool. 2. The  employees that are members of that pool have that in their contract.

 

Anything more specific is not public.

To clarify:  How do you know that your room steward received/was given/handed/paid/put cash in his or her pocket, any part of the paid gratuities?

6 minutes ago, TRLD said:

I wonder if those that remove their gratuities and give out envelops give them out each day to dining room staff  or those that work in the buffet that provide service.  

Quick question for ya TRLD:  When you pay the "Crew Appreciation" how can one determine if the room steward, dining room staff, buffet staff, laundry personnel or anyone else actually received any part of the gratuities you paid?  It would be nice to think that they did, but because it goes into a pool, under the control of Princess and distributed "fleet wide", I'm not sure that anyone can factually say that they did. If there is a way, please let me know. Thanks

1 minute ago, karatemom2 said:

 
Correct. Frankly I don’t care how they charge me - I would pay the charge either way. 
 

It’s the very people here complaining and who remove the CA, protesting that the crew should be paid a living wage who will feel the cost increase when it is inevitably made a mandatory charge or added into the fare. 
 

Right now enough people honor the system that those who remove the CA charges do so without any consequence. But eventually I imagine if it tips too heavy in that direction the cruise lines will just adjust pricing accordingly and force everyone to pay an equal share because it will be mandatory. And then I imagine people will complain about that too. 
 

 

I think the point that those of us that you label as "complaining" aren't addressing the cost, rather, the fact that the "crew appreciation" is not appreciation for the job well done by the crew on the ship you are on, but money you are giving to Princess to give out to whoever they decide deserves it and further it isn't just an "appreciation" but wage compensation and bonuses, again, given to whoever they decide deserves it.  

13 minutes ago, Torfamm said:

I'm curious, do you tip the same amount regardless of the amount of your bill or do you calculate your tip considering the total on you check?

It really doesn't matter how I calculate my tip, my tip is a tip, not a wage booster.

So, taking a few minutes to re-read all the post and comments I think I have a handle on this and have found the "common ground".  First, "crew appreciation" is mis-leading as it would lead a person to believe that they are appreciating the service provided by the crew on the ship they are currently on; secondly, a cruiser has the ability to remove automatic gratuities and provide a "tip" to an individual for good/excellent service to the person(s) with a cash tip; third, those that want to pay the automatic wage supplement, also known as gratuities, can do so understanding that the money goes to Princess, not necessarily to anyone or group of individuals on the current sailing.  Individual decisions made by individual cruisers and there is no right or wrong.  It's your money be well informed as to how it is used and make your own decision.  

Just now, JimmyVWine said:

Then you clearly do not understand how restaurants operate, because they are doing exactly what you say you won't do in your last sentence.  If the state minimum wage is $16 and the waiter is earning $8 from the employer, then your tip is what brings his wage up to $16.  You are making up for the employer not paying a good wage.  How are you not understanding this?

And how are you not understanding that I don't go to restaurants that use my "tip" as a wage booster.  Just because the State says its ok for an employer to pay less than the minimum wage, take the employee's "tips" and use it to supplement their wage, doesn't make it right.  I tip to say thank you for great service, not be an extra employer paying a portion of their wages.  I tip my room steward for giving me good service, not to allow Princess to "pool" my money and then disperse it to whomever they want, on whatever ship they may be on, throughout the year!  Raise the price of the cruise fare by $300, pay a good wage and tell your customers that there is no tipping.  Don't tell them it is "crew appreciation" and do whatever the heck you want with it.  By the way, did you find where the chicken is? 🤔 

My eyesight isn't as good as it use to be.  Could someone please help me find where on this package of Chicken Nuggets it says how much Chicken it contains? 

2 minutes ago, JimmyVWine said:

 

Then every restaurant that you have ever dined in that pays its workers less than non-tipped workers and that does not include the gratuity as a built-in cost of the food item it sells you is unethical, deceptive and is guilty of scamming its customers. Fascinating.   

Good attempt at mis-direction.  First, if there is a minimum wage requirement, it is up to the employer to pay that amount; if they raise the cost of their steak to compensate for the increase in minimum wage, so be it.  But if you are asking me to "tip" to make up for the employer's lack of paying the minimum wage, you are out of luck.  I pay a fair price for a good meal and I tip the server for good service.  I will not tip to make up for the employer not paying a good wage.  

2 minutes ago, JimmyVWine said:

Do you really think that the cruise lines have not test-marketed this concept?  Or restaurants for that matter?  I can guarantee you that the system is the way it is because the cruise line knows that if it charges $1,120 up front instead of $1,000 with $17 per day for 7 days added on as gratuities, it will sell fewer cruises.  People seem to think that they know the industry better than the people who actually run it.  When you go to a restaurant and see a steak on the menu for $40, if you order it, you are going to pay $48.  You aren't being cheated, or hoodwinked, or deceived.  And the $8 gratuity that you pay is not a "reward" for the server.  It is part of their pay.  We live with this reality every day.  The system is working.  If it weren't, it would change.  Businesses change to evolve to the better.  If they don't, they fail. We have to trust that the people running multi-billion dollar businesses actually have a grasp on this. 

You say the system is working, my take is that the system is scamming those who haven't yet realized that it is happening.  As long as there are those out there that are willing to continue supporting this type of system, it will continue.  As I have stated before, we realized the "scam" a long time ago and have long ago decided that we will not support such activity.  Those that decide to participate, no hard feelings here, you do you, I'll do me.

7 minutes ago, JimmyVWine said:

This is clearly not the American model, which the cruise industry is patterning itself after.  In my state, the minimum wage is just under $16.  But waiters receive $6.38 and bartenders receive $8.23.  Tips are expected to top up these numbers so that the worker receives no less than $16 per hour.  If the tips fail to do that, the employer is responsible for making up the difference.

So, if I understand your example, I'm not tipping for good service, I am paying a wage.  In that case, have I not become an "employer" and have to file the proper tax forms to show the wages I have paid?  Also, what would keep a waiter from placing the cash tip in their pocket, not turn it in, claim not to have reached the $16 minimum and have the employer have to make up the "difference"?  Lets see, what is the word I'm looking for, oh yes, SCAM!  

4 minutes ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

This, I think, is what causes the confusion.

 

Go back to post 1.  Princess are not calling the charge that this thread is about a gratuity.  They are calling it 'crew appreciation / service charge'.  That is the daily per person charge, which varies by cabin type.  Actually, I think the text quoted in post 1 gives a very clear and transparent explanation of how Princess uses those charges.   And I don't think anyone should be shocked that part of what they pay for their cruise is used for staff salaries / wages.

 

All cruise lines rely on customers to pay crew salaries.  I agree that in an ideal world that would all be included in one overall cruise fare.  But, for commercial / cultural reasons, that seems rare, apart from P&O in the UK and some of the very high end lines.  Other lines have daily service charges / crew appreciation charges and explain how those provide an element of crew compensation.  On some lines (e.g. MSC and Costa) those charges are mandatory and cannot be changed or removed.  On others, they can be adjusted.  I think it is pretty clear that these are not 'tips or 'gratuities'.

 

We're on a Princess cruise at the moment.  There is a separate 'gratuities' line entry on every food / beverage / service bill (typically 18 per cent, but adjustable).  That is the equivalent of what you are referring to in terms of land-based restaurants, not the crew appreciation / service charge that this thread was about originally.   

 

We have met many many fantastic staff on this 4-week cruise.  And most of the ones with whom we have interacted tell us they have been with Princess for multiple contracts over years and years.  Clearly, they are happy with what and how they are paid by Princess.  I know that we have contributed to them receiving a salary with which they are happy by paying our daily service charge as part of our package and the additional 18 per cent on goods and services not covered by that.  For us, it is just part of the cruise fare in the same way that when we go to a restaurant at home, an element of our food bill pays staff wages across the whole company and an element of our supermarket bill pays staff wages across the whole supermarket chain.  Those who wish to provide an additional gratuity to individual named staff members are welcome to do so.

I agree that everyone should know that part of your "cruise fare" is used for wages.  But, when you label an additional charge as "crew appreciation" you are inferring that the additional charge is a tip for exception service to those crew members on your cruise and we all know that it is not.  Why not just call it what it is, compensation that is distributed to all crew members on all ships in the fleet!  Sleight of hand in advertising has become the norm. Crew appreciation is how they list it but, then in the fine print is tells you that may not be the case.  My DW and I have this discussion every time a commercial for Velveeta cheese comes on:  Is it cheese or not?  Well, it does have at lease 51% cheese.  How about Impossible Chicken Nuggets?  It looks like a typical chicken nugget, but it has no chicken in it; it is a veggie nugget.  Just call it what it is.  

I believe that most cruisers believe that by paying the gratuities, they are tipping those crew members on their cruise who provided good or exceptional services.  They very well may not be.  The gratuities paid, as stated in the Princess paperwork, go into a pool, controlled by Princess and distributed by Princess throughout the fleet!  Your room steward may never see a dime of the gratuities you paid and the same for those in the dining room who served you so well.  

If I go to a restaurant and the wait staff does an excellent job, I don't hand the owner extra money to be put in his or her pocket, to be distributed, throughout the year to all those who work at the restaurant.  Why should it be any different when cruising.  With the exception of our very first cruise (we are now over 50), we have always removed the gratuities, obtained small envelopes from Customer Service desk, and given tips directly to the persons who went above and beyond to see to it that we enjoyed our cruise.  

Has anyone else noticed that the person pictured next to Carmen Roig is Marsha Patrick, Director of Sales, Western US and Canada?  Western US?  Canada?  Could we be talking about some type of deal with an airline or possibly Amtrak to get people from the western US and Canada to Ft. Lauderdale/Tampa and Port Canaveral?  Guess we'll all find out in a few hours.  

Just now, cruisinfamily7609 said:

thanks! We are cruising from Fort Lauderdale this time so your experience is relatable. Thanks a bunch - now I have an idea of what to expect for sure. 🙂

You're welcome!

1 hour ago, voljeep said:

4-5-4 also works ... 14 day turnaround E-W-E ... W-E-W

Many years ago the 4-5-4 was done and a lot of people took advantage of the "number of cruises" to get to Elite.  I can remember that it was a very sore subject on CC as those that had worked hard doing longer cruises, and only getting credit for 1 or 2, were upset with someone being able to do a 4-5-4, and getting 3 credits.  It was something that Princess offered but the people that booked these trips were thrashed pretty hard.  

15 minutes ago, lx200gps said:

 Is that confirmed, or just speculation? PC would not be as good as New York (which we would prefer over Brooklyn), but if the Sky is sailing to Bermuda, we're all over that one.

Yes, Sky is sailing from Port Canaveral in 2025.  We are booked for November 30, 2025.

2 hours ago, cruisinfamily7609 said:

Our cruise in June is this way - we booked it as a 14-day and then realized it was really two 7-day cruises. I’ve always wanted to try a B2B... 

 

I have a question though - because for us this is a 14 day, does anyone with experience doing this know how that disembarkation day will go?

Having never sailed from the West Coast I can only relate how it works in Florida.  When the cruise returns following the first 7 days (known as turn around day) all current passengers who are also booked on the next 7 day segment are mustered in a venue aboard ship.  After all other passengers are disembarked, the group staying onboard are taken as a group to US Customs where they are checked and then ushered right back aboard the ship.  The procedure doesn't take very long.  

1 minute ago, Ombud said:

My upcoming cruise is sold as a 2 day + 19 day but I booked as a 21 day. Do I get 1 or 2 minibars?? 

🤔  Never booked a 2 day back to back with another segment but I would assume, 2, no different than two 7 days back to back.

1 minute ago, memoak said:

If you are elite I can tell you that you will get a 2nd mini bar regardless of how you book

That is correct; whether booked as two 7's or a 14, you get two mini-bars.

4 minutes ago, jagoffee said:

Have you completed the 14 day cruise that you are referencing?  If yes, did you have one of the packages?

 

Thanks

No and no.  We booked a Feb 2025 and a Nov 2025.  We always book Standard.

Just now, Steelers36 said:

Unless there is a real price difference (and I have yet to personally be impacted by anything negative in that sense), I always book the separate voyages.  Other non-obvious advantages to this are being able to re-fare for a price drop on individual segments and independent to/from flights in EzAir which allows for changing one-direction flight independently in situation of a price drop while preserving the other direction.

A number of things should be considered when trying to decide which way to go.  Recently, I wanted to book a 14 day but the cabin I wanted was not showing as available however, it was showing available for two 7 day cruises.  I looked at the price for the two 7 day cruises  versus booking the 14 day cruise and the price difference was just over $300.  Paying $300 more and losing $50 shareholder and $50 military made it an easy choice.  Research, research, research.