Truro001

What a Saga! I notice that these threads concerning Saga cruises are being followed by literally thousands of potential / current Saga cruisers. It is no wonder Saga can't sell any of the recently advertised cruises on the Spirit of Adventure's Black Sea cruise in May. How can the management get it so wrong? I would at least hope  they have someone in their Head Office monitoring these threads in order to keep up to date with what their customers are saying. After all, Saga only have 2 ships. 

We really feel for you all on board at the moment. Your cruise has turned into a real nightmare. 

Earlier today Reuters reported that Turkish military diving teams safely detonated yet another floating naval mine in the Black Sea. The Turkish defence ministry said this was the third such mine found in Turkish waters.

Fingers crossed they manage to  locate and destroy all the other mines reported adrift in the Black Sea before Saga send the Spirit of Adventure into the Black Sea next month.

18 minutes ago, Banjo an said:

Just looked on www.cruisemapper.com.  And there is no mention of SOA visiting Limassol in June.        

Try looking on the Limassol cruise schedule. I have just checked and it clearly shows  Spirit of Adventure is now expected on 5th June.

7 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

It's a case of , the Prime Minister has great confidence in X , until the moment their sacked.  Similarly the intinerary won't be changed until it is.

 

However the longer they leave it, the more desperate they will be for people not to cancel. The can't 're-sell effectively  a new cruise to new people in a few weeks. So you have the upper hand, depending what you want. Mine is guarantee of independent excursions at ports. 

 

Of course if a black sea cruise doesn't go to black sea you must have right to cancel. If they say not, go to credit card company, use section 25 , goods not as described. 

You are right of course but I am afraid that it has been my experience that sometimes the announcement of bad news (ie not actually going into the Black Sea) has been so last minute that the passengers only find out once they are on board. It is then too late to cancel. A classic example of this was the timing of the announcement with regard to not being allowed off a ship unless on a Saga shore excursion. 

Despite assurances from Saga that the itinerary for this cruise has not changed I can’t help but feel I am being misled. Limassol port is apparently expecting the Spirit of Adventure to visit on 7th June and Piraeus is now expecting the Spirit of Adventure on 2nd June. I am told that this is simply Head Office “contingency planning” but if that were the case why does the Piraeus port calendar no longer show the Spirit of Adventure’s scheduled visit for 31st May? Why has that been deleted and why won’t Saga “come clean” about what is happening with this cruise. Saga’s passengers are not children and I resent being treated like one.

On 3/24/2022 at 1:43 PM, Nelson PK said:

Phoned Saga earlier today, no waiting answered straight away. Asked when the excursions would be released, she stated within the next ten days.

Also asked about the Black Sea situation,  stated we would receive a phone call to discuss the cruise itinerary soon.

I am curious to know whether Nelson PK received details of the shore excursions within 10 days of his call to Saga or the promised phone call to discuss the itinerary. Based on our own experience with regard to getting information from Saga - I suspect not. 

31 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

I completely  agree with Denarius and Truro001

 

I just don't know how Saga can justify their arbitrary restrictions.  Given none of the other UK cruise lines are taking this approach, it proves it is a Saga decision, outside industry norms or requirements.  Surely it must be grounds for cancellation and full refund

 

Perhaps the number of passengers using the love it clause will tell them how unpopular it is. If those new to Saga on April cruises , who have been told they can't  cancel use the love it clause perhaps it will register where it matters, in Saga's bottom line. I expect historically the use of the love clause was a very  very rare event

For us second time Saga cruisers, not being able to take advantage of the “Love it” clause,  in view of the current situation a “Still thinking about it” clause would be most useful. ………

3 hours ago, Denarius said:

Am currently on SofA docked in Gran Canaria. We are permitted to go ashore on ships tours only. Immediately next to us is P&Os Arcadia. Their passengers are going ashore independently. We are subjected to almost daily covid testing which has identified a handful of non symptomatic cases. As far as I am aware no one has actually been diagnosed because they were showing symptoms. P&O are apparently taking a more reactive approach. They tested at Southampton and then before Madeira ( local requirement) but nothing since. They may have infected people aboard but they are not ill and di not know they are infected; just like onshore in the UK. They are living with covid whereas Saga are looking for it. And as it is now believed that the mortality risk from getting omicron is less than that from getting influenza, surely that is the most sensible approach.

It must be really galling to watch the P&O passengers going ashore and free to explore and enjoy their time in port at their own leisure whilst you are subjected to arbitrary rules that severely restrict your own freedom and the right to enjoy your holiday as you wish. I personally find the reasons for these arbitrary rules hard to fathom. When we visited the Canaries on Spirit of Adventure in January we too were told that we could only go ashore if on an organised excursion. Our “included” excursion then stopped off at a popular beach where we were free to do what we wanted for 40 minutes. I still fail to see the logic behind that particular decision.

41 minutes ago, Banjo an said:

Spoke to customer services at Saga again who were very helpful.

Reassured me that any changes to the itinerary would be notified to all passengers before sailing and it would not be sprung upon us after we’d embarked.

They also confirmed that the current Saga ban on going ashore independently is a temporary measure for April sailings only at the moment and will hopefully not apply to this cruise.

The problem on board their ships at present would appear to be caused by a minority of passengers refusing to wear masks so infections are spreading.

However, Saga are considering ways to deal with this,  possibly including disembarkation of offenders.

I don’t know what to be more concerned about now, the possible itinerary changes or covid related issues!

We will just have to wait and see what happens in the next six weeks.

 

Thank you very much for sharing that information. 

8 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

Dear Truro001 , a Cornish rebellion , I will join you, certainly with regard to arbitrary restrictions. 

Greatly appreciated Windsurfboy

30 minutes ago, Truro001 said:

 

I fully agree with nosapphire and feel the point has been well made. Notwithstanding the safety / security issues of taking a cruise ship into an area in which NATO have warned of the dangers to shipping posed by upwards of 400 drifting mines I feel that that the recent restrictions / conditions imposed by Saga have resulted in the fact that this cruise is no longer the cruise we booked. Saga have imposed restrictions that severely curtail every passenger’s freedom of choice with regard to shore excursions and as a direct result of their own restrictions Saga have been obliged to restrict or cancel some on board facilities which they told us would be available when we booked our cruise. In view of the complete lack of information regarding our own cruise,  departing in less than 7 weeks,  I will be writing a formal letter to Saga management, sent by registered post, to register my concerns and request an explanation as why they feel it safe to cruise in the Black Sea when other companies have cancelled and how they justify their arbitrary decision with regard to shore excursions. I fully support nosapphire and would urge others to do likewise. (A single voice is merely a whisper - it takes many voices to invoke change.)

54 minutes ago, nosapphire said:

Those of you (if you intended to go ashore independently) who are receiving letters stating that you can only go ashore on an included excursion, it may be worth while formally (i.e, in writing - email or letter) challenging their reasons for this, especially if the terms of booking you received do not specify this as a condition of cruise.

You can still do it if on board - reception will happily provide paper if you do not have any in the cabin, and hand it in to the Cruise Director. Or email Head Office directly.

Those of you booked, but who have not received a letter - you can still ask why this is happening, and is it going to happen to you?

If the port or the CLIA has decreed that passengers should not be allowed ashore independently, there is nothing that the line can do.

If this is purely a Saga decision, then what are the reasons for it? and they they valid reasons?

If it is because of the risk of bringing Covid back on board, then they need to explain why an included excursion ashore is less of a risk than an independent shore visit.

And ...Saga have spent a lot of advertising time promoting how healthy their ships are,with state-of-the-art fresh air circulation, etc., etc., so they also need to explain to you why they think that their ships are so much more at risk of people bringing Covid back than all the other ships who are not restricting passengers.

When strange rules get put in place, if nobody challenges the reasoning behind them, then they are likely to be regarded as OK and become permanent. If enough people start saying it is NOT OK, then at least the reasoning behind it may become clear - and it should not end up as a permanent restriction.

Otherwise - even worse -  you could see Saga promoting  this as part of the reason their passengers "feel safe with Saga".

 

Earlier this week our travel agent received the following information from Saga:

1. Shore excursions for this cruise will not be available until at least 2-3 weeks before departure. I understand that this is now standard practice for Saga cruises despite the fact that the documents we received stated that details of shore excursions would be available approximately 10 weeks prior to departure.
2. Neither of the Saga staff to whom our agent spoke was aware of the visit to Limassol on 7th June or the change to our planned visit to Piraeus on 31st May. They were adamant that there have been no changes to our current itinerary and that we would “definitely” be in Sinop on 7th June. (I therefore assure that Head Office is in the process of making contingency plans of which their agents are unaware).
3. We were told that the sudden availability of approximately 82 cabins is due to the fact that Saga have allowed some passengers to transfer their booking to another cruise and are not due to cancellations. We were reminded of the financial consequences resulting from cancellation.

I am sure we are all following events in Eastern Europe with great interest and obvious concern but also wondering how they might impact our cruise. One must always be mindful of the fact that the first casualty of a war is the truth. Nonetheless, we understand from the media that there are currently upwards of 21 Russian warships and 4 submarines operating in the Black Sea. We have seen videos and photographs of Russian warships firing missiles into Ukrainian territory from the Black Sea and more recently it would appear that NATO air forces have reinforced Romanian airbases close to the Black Sea. During the last week we have read stories of 400 plus mines adrift in the Black Sea and how some of those mines have been sighted off Istanbul and Romania. We understand that a freighter was sunk off Romania after hitting a mine and some crew members are still missing. We also understand that for a while the Turkish authorities closed part of their seaways as a precaution because of the mines and the Bulgarian authorities have warned their domestic fishing fleet not to go to sea. There have also been notices to mariners to watch out for mines in the Black Sea.

Working on the premise that there is no smoke without fire I am quite shocked that Saga are actively advertising a cruise to the Black Sea which is departing in just seven weeks time. I can only assume that Saga and their insurers either don’t see the situation as I do or else they are aware of information that we do not have.

I found the following articles to be of particular interest:

https://www.novinite.com/articles/214374/Bulgarian+Fishermen+should+not+Enter+the+Sea+because+of+Dangerous+Mines+in+the+Water

https://crisis24.garda.com/alerts/2022/03/western-black-sea-heightened-risk-of-naval-mines-in-western-black-sea-through-at-least-mid-april-update-1

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2022/03/opinion-is-there-a-serious-sea-mine-threat-in-the-black-sea/

I note that it was only when the Spirit of Adventure set sail on Tuesday that passengers were informed that they would not be allowed ashore unless on an organised Saga excursion. Surely this decision must have been made prior to departure? Why were passengers not informed prior to boarding? Was it really a decision taken by management at the very last moment?

It is my understanding that Saga’s current position is that the Sprit of Adventure will enter the Black Sea as planned.  However, It is my fear that, as previously happened with other cruise lines, Saga might be working on a contingency plan which would be sensible but then not announce the change until we are on board. This would be completely unacceptable.

The silence from Saga is deafening. They really need to “up their game” and keep their passengers properly informed. Conjecture and rumour does not ease minds.

11 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

Tried to book but it wouldn't let me,  perhaps this is a mistake

Funnily enough I tried the same thing and the website allowed me to get to the final stages of  booking the cabin next to ours. I then "chickened out" as I didn't want to end up with two cabins. 

Interesting development with regard to the Saga website which was updated last night. Information on this cruise was unavailable for most of the evening but became accessible again in the early hours. Not only have 81 cabins suddenly become available but perhaps more importantly for us there have been no changes to the itinerary and there is no mention of visiting Limassol in Cyprus. I therefore presume that as Saga are advertising these 81 cabins on a Black Sea cruise with the current itinerary they have obviously decided not to change the itinerary in any way.  I personally feel that any cruise company taking the decision to advertise a cruise with an itinerary that might already have been changed, but not yet announced, would certainly be questionable. As to why Limassol Cruise Centre has published the fact that the Spirit of Adventure is due to visit Limassol on 7th June remains a mystery.

Thank you for sharing that information. Greatly appreciated.

1 hour ago, david05 said:

On past form Saga will offer a refund to anyone who does not wish to go with a revised itinerary which excludes the Black Sea. I doubt if they are waiting on Government advice but perhaps they have not yet finalised a revised itinerary.

Very impressive. Saga are obviously even better than I thought. In the past other cruise companies have argued that what I considered a significant change of itinerary was not sufficient grounds to cancel. I have also experienced cases with other cruise companies whereby changes in the itinerary were only announced when the ship had actually sailed. On occasion it was later discovered that these changes had been made weeks before the sailing date. Bravo Saga

48 minutes ago, SummmerInKefalonia said:

Seriously, with all the mines and war ships in the Black Sea who thinks there is still a chance for Spirit of Adventure to go up there? Let's be logical. The only company that left Bulgarian ports is Azamara and I'm pretty sure closer to that date of the cruise they will cancel them too.

Like yourself, being realistic, I  don’t think there is the slightest chance of any cruise ships going into the Black Sea in the foreseeable future. Perhaps I could pose a question to any “legal minds” who might be following these posts. It is my understanding that if Saga, on their own initiative, alter the itinerary of their “Ancient Wonders of the Black Sea” cruise such that the ship does not even enter the Black Sea this would constitute a significant change allowing passengers to cancel and obtain a full refund from Saga. If, on the other hand, Saga waited for the Government to advise against travel to the Black Sea and Saga then change the itinerary does this affect Saga’s liability with regard to a refund?  Does cancellation then become an insurance issue?

36 minutes ago, Banjo an said:

Given that the majority of passengers are like us, elderly and cruisers who have been to all or most of the other ports but booked this cruise for the Black Sea part, it would give Saga a lot more time to rebook cabins in the event of cancellations if they make the necessary announcements sooner rather than later.

I couldn’t agree more. Not surprisingly, it it is looking as though passengers who booked this Saga cruise to the Black Sea might have differing views as to what options Saga should now pursue. Having replaced Odessa with Canakkale the current itinerary still includes 6 ports in the Black Sea. However, if the Spirit of Adventure is expected in Limassol on the 7th June she obviously can’t also be in Sinop on 7th June as stated in the current itinerary. One also doesn’t need to possess too many navigational skills to work out that if the information in Limassol is correct then the Spirit of Adventure cannot possibly be in Trabzon on the 6th June or Varna on 9th June. Some passengers booked this cruise solely for the reason that it was going to the Black Sea and would, like ourselves, cancel their booking if that portion of the cruise was curtailed. Others might be content to accept a new itinerary and happily spend a month exploring alternative ports of call in the Eastern Mediterranean. It might well be the case that Saga still intend going to the Black Sea and Limassol is part of a “contingency plan” in the event that the Government ultimately advise against cruises to the Black Sea area.  Time will tell. We feel sure that whatever Saga decide to do they will still be offering a memorable cruise. The Spirit of Adventure is a lovely ship and the crew are exceptional. Our recent cruise Christmas cruise on Spirit of Adventure was undoubtedly the best of our 35 cruises to date. However, we particularly wanted to go to the Black Sea and if this is nor possible then we would rather know sooner rather than later. Personally, we are not interested in alternative itineraries nor would we be tempted by any offers of OBC or FCCs.

1 hour ago, Banjo an said:

I think it’s about time that Saga put us in the picture, particularly as all the other cruise lines have cancelled their calls to the Black Sea.

I would have thought that by now Saga would have made the big decision as to whether they still intend sending a cruise ship into the Black Sea. I can appreciate the fact that it is a difficult decision and trying to find alternative ports at this late stage must be problematic.The fact that the Spirit of Adventure is now going to Cyprus is perhaps an indication that saga have indeed made the decision.  I understand that Azamara cruises initially deferred their final date by 30 days and notified passengers that a change of itinerary was imminent. Azamara subsequently conducted a survey of their passengers to ascertain what their passengers would be happy to do. Azamara then published their new itinerary. I would have thought it reasonable for Saga to at least let passengers know whether the “Ancient Wonders of the Black Sea” cruise will still enter the Black Sea. If, as expected, the answer is “No” then at least we can start to consider our options and look at alternatives.

21 hours ago, SummmerInKefalonia said:

Spirit of Adventure is registered in Limassol on the 7th of June 2022.

https://limassolcruise.com/wp-content/uploads/limassolcruise/2022/03/Cruise-Schedule_2020_2021_2022.pdf

Thank you for passing on this information. In view of recent activities involving  the Russian Black Sea fleet it is inevitable, and quite reasonable, that Saga now appear to be in the process of planning an alternative itinerary.  It will be interesting to hear what other ports Saga might be under consideration. 

For the past few weeks I have been keeping an eye on various message boards relating to how cruise companies are reacting to the situation in Eastern Europe. Saga recently announced that the Spirit of Adventure would no longer be visiting Odessa during its Black Sea cruise in May and this news obviously came as no surprise. I personally wouldn’t be too surprised to hear of further changes to our itinerary.

With that in mind I have looked at what changes other cruise companies have made with regard to their own Black Sea cruises. It is my understanding that Windstar have cancelled all their Black Sea cruises planned for 2022. Regent Seven Seas Explorer would appear to be no longer heading into the Black Sea on their cruise departing Istanbul on 14th May and Azamara have announced that they are dropping their planned visits to Romania and Georgia. I believe that their only Black Sea port of calls will be in Bulgaria. It would seem that Saga are currently the only cruise

Company still planning to go ahead with their planned Black Sea itinerary (excluding Odessa of course) . Fingers crossed that this remains the case but I am not too hopeful.

News of the last change to our itinerary reached some of our fellow passengers long before we received our notification. It would be greatly appreciated if anybody hearing of further changes to our itinerary could let fellow cruisers know through this message board as soon as possible. Many thanks.

19 hours ago, Windsurfboy said:

We won't be back in UK till April so if Saga announces anything about this cruise, please post it in this thread

Hi neighbour. We could well end up sharing a ride to Southampton if Saga resume their shared ride operations before the end of May. In view of the developing situation I am keeping an eye on the “Roll Call” postings from fellow cruisers on the Azamara, Windstar and  Regent Seven Seas ships which are currently due to cruise in the Black Sea before we depart from Southampton. I am not one for over reacting, or hyping up a situation for the sake of it, so I will only post anything that I feel is valid and might genuinely be of interest to others.

Hope to see you on the ship in May.  We were on SOA at Christmas and surprised to meet so many people who are also booked on this cruise.