Viking China

[Osnab]

Marian,

We had lunch at Outback. Lunch for 2 is about what you'd pay in any big city. Ours came to near 35.00 plus drinks.

Jerry

 

Jerry, how was the food at Outback in China compared to Outback here?

Felicia

[Osnab]

Felicia - Sorry you're not on the same trip, but we can wish away the next few months until September arrives. Just put Hong Kong on your wish list for the future. My list is quite long! Marian

 

 

My list is long, too. I don't think there's enough life left in me to go everywhere I want to go, and I'm only 47! I just want to go everywhere.

 

I just watched Globe Trekker-China on the travel channel (I recorded it) and heard that Fengdu (where the Snow Jade Cave is) is going to be flooded completely in about 900 days. They have a counter on one of the walls that shows how many more days before it will flood. They have this long to leave.

Felicia

[Miss Priss]

I think we're really fortunate to be able to see some of the places that will be under water in 2009. Our timing is good, I think. I didn't realize the Snow Jade cave would be under water, but of course most of the things we see on the river will be. I read in Frommers, though, that equally sad is the loss of the areas in Beijing (the Hutongs) that are being razed because of the Olympics. They said the Hutongs were one of the last places to see the "old" China. I don't think we have time to go there when we're in Beijing, but the Cultural Delights tour does go there by pedicab. They have unusual decorated doors that lead into the courtyards.

 

Are you going to try to go anywhere on the half day you have in Shanghai? I thought I'd like to see the YuYuan Gardens. It's not too far from the hotel and is supposed to be very nice. I just don't know about the time factor. Marian

[WIT]

Jerry and Wit - Thanks so much for the pictures and suggestions. That's exactly the kind of information we're looking for! Jerry, your pics are super. Loved the "china dolls"

 

Felicia - We are on the Imperial trip. We leave September 4 for Hong Kong. September 9 we start the tour from Shanghai. Doesn't sound like the same trip.

 

I'll be interested to know what Consumer Reports thinks.

 

I didn't print all the comments, but I've been from front to back 3 times now and I take notes on all that I'm interested in. Probably your way is easier! But it's true that just about every question is answered, especially with Jerry and Wit's latest. Marian

Marian - As I type Jerry and Diane and many of our new friends are on double-decker United flight 896 back to Chicago. We agreed to be bumped to a later flight which stops in San Francisco with another flight to Chicago arriving six hour after United 896. I'm on Free Hong Kong WIFI in the Executive Lounge for United with nice snacks and drinks. I mention this not just to celebrate the $800 UAL offered us, but also to suggest that breaking up a long return flight may be easier albeit longer. Fifteen hours is a long time.

 

The first Cultural Delights cruise/tour of 2007 was remarkably healthy and pleasant. We had brought the suggested pharmacy (including Cipro) but only used an occasional immodium and some cough syrup. Viking says they now use bottled water for washing all food - as evidence the Century Sun dining room was full every night. Perhaps health conditions will change as the season progresses (I did notice more complaints through last summer) but I hope you all stay as healthy as we did. You need to be in decent shape for the daily excursions.

 

We had 1 day of full rain (the drive to the ceramics factory at Jendezhen) and an hour of gusty 7AM rain as we entered the first of the Three Gorges. You'll notice the early Three Gorges photos are overcast. Every other day was clear and comfortable.

 

Most wore casual or sports clothes (some wore shorts although Chinese dress much more conservatively) and folks usually changed to slightly better dress for dinner. Sometimes we arrived back from the excursion just before lunch or dinner and had insufficient time to change which was no big deal. Towards the end of the cruise dress at dinner improved (some sport coats and and infrequent tie) but I didn't use the blazer (no tie) until the night of the Acrobatic Performance in Shanghai. (I had never encountered romantically themed acrobatics - actually just one part. It was really indescribable).

 

Hotels were good with China World in Beijing among the best I have seen. The Portman Ritz-Carlton in Shanghai and the Kowloon ShangriLa (Hong Kong) were also excellent. Xian Golden Flower ShangriLa and Guilin Sheraton are the best in their respective towns with Xian having the best breakfast of the entire tour.

 

The only hotel dinners were buffets in Beijing and Guilin - both exellent Western and local Chinese food. We ate on our own the first night in Beijing at the China World. Besides a great Western buffet they offer a different regional specialty cuisine each night. It happened to be Mongolian when we arrived - which I liked very much. The deserts were varied, delicious, and arranged like art. When the entire group ate dinner at China World it was lobster night and the deserts were merely excellent.

 

The food on the Century Sun was a disappointment. Service was excellent but I think a China cruise attracts those who either love or hate new kinds of cuisine and in trying to please the hoped for 'broad middle' Viking disappointed both. I would have preferred one really strong seasoned Chinese dish instead of a lazy Susan loaded with bland dishes with less flavor than I can get with takeout near my home. All but two boat dinners were entirely Western but uninspired. My last river cruise with Amadeus had us raving about the soup and getting recipes from the chef. Soups were bland and consome. Even the Chinese soup was always egg drop with a different additive. (they actually used surimi for crab) As far as non-Chinese food, the worst was a lump of overcooked white rice with 5% vegetables. masquerading as paella. No saffron ever came close to it. The breakfast buffet was good but exactly the same every day. Everyone found something they liked and had it all nine days. Lunches were a combination of buffet (cold salads and greens - some good Chinese cold noodles) and two different hot sandwiches like ham and cheese, etc. Then you could also order one of two entrees which were often better than the dinner choices. The staff surveyed each table at lunch about dinner choices although you were not held to your choice later. We had a large group of European passengers aboard (1/3 were either British or German) so perhaps my food criticism is unduly harsh given the challenges the Chef may have felt. I don't think so.

 

But enough complaints. Viking does a great job of connecting you with the Chinese people. The school visit is unforgettable (clips to follow). The musical welcome by the displaced people of Fengdu (TGP flooded them out) was special. So was the community turnout (bands and costumes) at Mt. Jiu Hua. Perhaps most interesting was the off-the-main-drag vendors (my strategy) who were willing to take the time to bargain ideas as well as yuan. Unforgettable. Exhausting. You will love China.

 

Revised flight about to leave. More remarks, photos and clips to follow.

WIT

[Osnab]

To everyone who's interested in the report from Consumer Reports about cameras, I read what I could this weekend. It's all a bit confusing. I'm going to have to take San Diego Ronni's advice and just go hold a few and get a feel for them.

 

Ronni, the camera you mentioned (Panasonic Lumx DMZ40) wasn't on the list, but there were 2 similar Panasonics listed that I'd already marked to consider. One was a subcompact model and the other sounds like it's more similar to yours, a super-zoom model.

 

Is a super zoom model the kind where you have different lenses you have to put on and take off? I want to avoid all that.

 

Felicia

[Osnab]

I think we're really fortunate to be able to see some of the places that will be under water in 2009. Our timing is good, I think. I didn't realize the Snow Jade cave would be under water, but of course most of the things we see on the river will be. I read in Frommers, though, that equally sad is the loss of the areas in Beijing (the Hutongs) that are being razed because of the Olympics. They said the Hutongs were one of the last places to see the "old" China. I don't think we have time to go there when we're in Beijing, but the Cultural Delights tour does go there by pedicab. They have unusual decorated doors that lead into the courtyards.

 

Are you going to try to go anywhere on the half day you have in Shanghai? I thought I'd like to see the YuYuan Gardens. It's not too far from the hotel and is supposed to be very nice. I just don't know about the time factor. Marian

 

I'm not 100% sure the Snow Jade cave will be buried, but I was under the impression from the show that the entire city will be totally washed away. At least the residents have time to move, but just think, they will not be able to sell their homes, and for the elderly, it's going to be tough to find a new place and start over.

 

I haven't decided what I'm going to do in any of my free time. Tell me about the YuYuan Gardens.

Felicia

[Osnab]

Fifteen hours is a long time.

 

Perhaps health conditions will change as the season progresses (I did notice more complaints through last summer) but I hope you all stay as healthy as we did. You need to be in decent shape for the daily excursions.

 

Hotels were good with China World in Beijing among the best I have seen.

 

The food on the Century Sun was a disappointment.

 

The musical welcome by the displaced people of Fengdu (TGP flooded them out) was special.

 

Revised flight about to leave. More remarks, photos and clips to follow.

WIT

 

Thanks for posting your report. I loved reading it. Sorry the food wasn't all that great on the ship, but it was nice to hear such an un-biased, realistic view of your experiences.

Few questions/comments:

 

1. What did you do to kill 15 hrs? I have a 13 1/2 hr flight from Chicago (I figure the flight from Nashville to Chicago doesn't count). I figure I'll sleep 8 hrs, kill 2 hrs watching a movie and maybe another 2 hrs eating, bathroom and reading. But still, the thoughts of being in a capsule for soooo long just about kills me. <G>

 

2. Where was your cabin on the ship and what was the cabin itself like?

 

3. What is your opinion about why health issues increase as the season does?

 

4. I called the other day to find out what hotels I will have in Sept. and they were totally different from yours, in each city. I'm curious about this. Why would Viking change the hotels between now & then? (I mean, knowing now that they will be different in Sept.)

 

5. What is TGP? Also, I thought the flooding wasn't to start in Fengdu until about 3 yrs from now.

 

6. REALLY looking forward to more pics.

 

I know you're going to be exhausted when you get home.

Felicia

[Osnab]

1. What is the basic percentage you use when you tip in restaurants and in taxis? I understand it's not expected or required but still people do, and I would like to do it w/o making a fool of myself.

 

2. Are there subways in Beijing and Shanghai? Do most people use taxis to get around?

 

3. Is it safe to walk around, as a female, alone? I know to take the usual precautions, but I guess a better question would be, is it "frowned upon" for a female foreigner to walk around alone during day light hours?

 

4. I know this has been asked and answered, but I can't remember what the answer is ~~~> do you tip your local guides in dollars or in yuan?

 

5. Are there safes in the hotel rooms and in the cabin on the ship?

 

That's it for now. Many more questions to follow. :)

Felicia

[travelsfun]

Re: camera choice. I know what you are going through..just went through it myself (checking Consumers, websites, etc. etc.) The more I read, the more confused I got. Finally decided on 3 features I wanted: 1. Price ($200 or less), 2. size of LCD screen (at least 2 1/2 inches) and weight & feel. Ended up with an Olympus FE-230 which seemed to fit the bill. Have taken some pictures and pleased with the results.

Good luck!

Dorothy

[WIT]

To everyone who's interested in the report from Consumer Reports about cameras, I read what I could this weekend. It's all a bit confusing. I'm going to have to take San Diego Ronni's advice and just go hold a few and get a feel for them.

 

Ronni, the camera you mentioned (Panasonic Lumx DMZ40) wasn't on the list, but there were 2 similar Panasonics listed that I'd already marked to consider. One was a subcompact model and the other sounds like it's more similar to yours, a super-zoom model.

 

Is a super zoom model the kind where you have different lenses you have to put on and take off? I want to avoid all that.

 

Felicia

Felicia - Sounds like you are close to selecting a camera. Please click my profile and read my remarks about the Panasonic TZ-1. It is pocket-sized, has 10X optical Leica zoom, and lots of features with easy use mode. The camera that won't fit in your pocket will not be ready for the great shot that comes when you are tired at the end of the day.

WIT

[San Diego Ronni]

OSNAB: My mistake. The model of my camera is the Panasonic FZ7. I suppose you could put super telephoto extra lenses on if you want, but the lens it comes with (Leica) is fabulous and 12X OPTICAL zoom. In addition, I think it goes 2X DIGITAL zoom. You want to be sure to get one with the longest OPTICAL zoom as this will definitely give you superior telephoto shots. I haven't seen any pocket-size cameras that will give you this feature. Also, be sure whatever you get has a digital image stabilizer. This will eliminate "shake" in your longer shots and also improve your closer ones. In addition, I love this camera because of the low light capability. I took incredible photos of the shows w/o flash and the faces are amazing. If you are interested in seeing my photos, please post your e-mail and I will send you a link....

 

Fengdu has actually already been pretty much flooded. What you will see in Fengu is the new city where the people have been moved to once they were displaced.

 

I can't answer about the health issue. Only know that several on our trip were very ill. Glad to hear this one is starting out healthy. I hope it stays that way for those of you who are anticipating this trip. It was fabulous and you will have a marvelous time!

 

Viking uses several hotels because they run several different tours, and China has so many people! We used Shangri-Las in all areas and they were all absolutely incredible!!!

[Miss Priss]

Ronni - On an earlier post you wrote that the camera you had was the FZ7, and on the later post you wrote 40. When I looked them up, I saw that the FZ7 was the 12X zoom. I think Dorothy's right when she says to list the 2 or 3 features you want most and go with that. The zoom, low light and image stability are probably my 3, so I will soon be looking at the FZ7 and FZ8. Canon is also supposed to be good. However I will say my Pentax Optio with the 5X optical is very nice. I just want more zoom.

 

Felicia I will quote from Eyewitness travel guide: "The Old Style buildings of the Yu Gardens are not really old, but the fanciful roofs are very appealing. The shops here peddle everything from tourist souvenirs to traditional medicines and despite the prices, is incredibly popular. Arrive early and go straight to the relatively peaceful Ming dynasty YuYuan Gardens."

[Miss Priss]

"Have a cup of tea in the quaint Huxingting Teahouse" Always crowded, but so very Chinese, with a zigzag bridge to protect the structure, as evil spirits can't turn corners. I think this might just be a real Chinese garden to walk around and then see the Teahouse which is in the middle of a small lake. Also, the shopping around the Garden is supposed to be fun, too. I'm probably going to feel different when I get there and get tired, but I hate the idea of just wasting a whole morning. The YuYuan Gardens was one place that kept popping up in the travel books that wasn't mentioned on our tour. I guess our guides can give us some suggestions also. Marian

[Miss Priss]

Wit: I'm very sad that the events you described as unforgettable are the ones we won't be seeing on the Imperial Jewels trip (i.e. school, Mt. Jiu Hua, etc). Our trip may miss the interaction with the people because of the time factor - I hope not. But I'm looking forward to seeing your pictures.

 

Food is such an individual thing I'm not surprised that in order to please everyone they went the way of bland. But you're right - that's not the reason we're there.

 

I'm glad it was everything you hoped for. Marian

[coasters]

Tipping - In most instances, the hotels added a 10% "service" charge. I considered that part of the tip. I personally added (or not) 5% if appropriate.

 

We did not take taxis, perhaps someone else can reply.

Every facility arranged for us by Viking DID have safes, including the ship.

Walking in the cities was safe. As in any city, "street sense" about where you go and with what on your person is appropriate. We were warned about pick-pockets (just as we were on trips to Europe and Israel) .... or New York...a fact we tourists must be aware of wherever we travel. Always better to go as in groups.

The food on board - not bad... just be prepared for catered meals as you might find at a wedding. When serving 270 persons, I never expect gourmet, if I get it, great! For the most part, breakfast and lunches were buffet style, so you could find what you liked and the quality and freshness of the provisions was very good. The dinners were as we expected, I'd rate them good, some in fact were very good! Guess it all depends on what you're comparing them to.

Several fellow passengers had coughs, some arrived with them. The coughs persisted, a few got worse.

A couple of passengers did experience stomach problems, nothing severe or long lasting. The Dr. on board provided (for a fee) some meds for those and all seemed to return to normal in a day or 2.

Free Bottled water was a provided in every venue. On busses, it could be purchased - 2 for 1 US dollar.

Everyone we spoke with was extremely pleased with everything about the trip.

Viking did an outstanding job, our escort, Edward Huang could not have been better. He was responsible for the 34 on our bus and was delightful, knowledgeable and encouraged us to ask questions - personal, political, or otherwise. When Viking calls this "Cultural Delights" they mean it. We were invited into schools, into the homes of familes, entertained by elders and always greeted by friendly Chinese all during the trip.

You will love it!!

[WIT]

Ronni - On an earlier post you wrote that the camera you had was the FZ7, and on the later post you wrote 40. When I looked them up, I saw that the FZ7 was the 12X zoom. I think Dorothy's right when she says to list the 2 or 3 features you want most and go with that. The zoom, low light and image stability are probably my 3, so I will soon be looking at the FZ7 and FZ8. Canon is also supposed to be good. However I will say my Pentax Optio with the 5X optical is very nice. I just want more zoom.

 

Felicia I will quote from Eyewitness travel guide: "The Old Style buildings of the Yu Gardens are not really old, but the fanciful roofs are very appealing. The shops here peddle everything from tourist souvenirs to traditional medicines and despite the prices, is incredibly popular. Arrive early and go straight to the relatively peaceful Ming dynasty YuYuan Gardens."

The camera you buy needs to be comfortable in YOUR hand, not mine, so I suggest a visit to the store. Holding the camera with one hand, zoom in on an object on the far wall and snap three shots. Review the shots using the camera's LCD and buy the camera that gives you the best three shots.

WIT

[coasters]

Wit,

excellent advice...

nice to have met you!

Jerry

[Osnab]

Re: camera choice. I know what you are going through..just went through it myself (checking Consumers, websites, etc. etc.) The more I read, the more confused I got. Finally decided on 3 features I wanted: 1. Price ($200 or less), 2. size of LCD screen (at least 2 1/2 inches) and weight & feel. Ended up with an Olympus FE-230 which seemed to fit the bill. Have taken some pictures and pleased with the results.

Good luck!

Dorothy

 

I want a smaller size camera without having to change lenses, but also one that zooms far and provides crystal clear pictures. I don't want a long delay between the time you press the button the first time and the 2nd time. (anything over 2 seconds is not an option)

 

I don't know if they make a camera like that. :)

Felicia

[Osnab]

Felicia - Sounds like you are close to selecting a camera. Please click my profile and read my remarks about the Panasonic TZ-1. It is pocket-sized, has 10X optical Leica zoom, and lots of features with easy use mode. The camera that won't fit in your pocket will not be ready for the great shot that comes when you are tired at the end of the day.

WIT

 

Thanks, Wit, but when I pulled up your profile, I didn't see anything about cameras. (What do I do, click on your name and that's all?)

 

Is the zoom part of the camera, or is it something you have to take on and remove?

 

How many seconds is the "next shot delay"?

Felicia

[Osnab]

OSNAB: The model of my camera is the Panasonic FZ7. I suppose you could put super telephoto extra lenses on if you want, but the lens it comes with (Leica) is fabulous and 12X OPTICAL zoom. If you are interested in seeing my photos, please post your e-mail and I will send you a link....

 

Fengdu has actually already been pretty much flooded. What you will see in Fengu is the new city where the people have been moved to once they were displaced.

 

Viking uses several hotels because they run several different tours, and China has so many people! We used Shangri-Las in all areas and they were all absolutely incredible!!!

 

Ronni: so with the camera you have, you don't have to put the lenses on? I really don't want to go to that much trouble. It just seems like too many times, the thing I wanted to take a picture of goes by so quickly, and taking the time to put the lens on would really make me miss a lot of photo ops.

 

I'm staying at the Shangri-La in Xian. (Also staying at the Westin in Beijing and the St Regis in Shanghai.) The websites for all these hotels look great.

 

Is the Snow Jade Cave not on the itinerary anymore? (In Fengdu)

 

Yes, please send me your pictures....I would love to look at them. My email address is Osnab@comcast.net

 

Felicia

[Osnab]

Felicia I will quote from Eyewitness travel guide: "The Old Style buildings of the Yu Gardens are not really old, but the fanciful roofs are very appealing. The shops here peddle everything from tourist souvenirs to traditional medicines and despite the prices, is incredibly popular. Arrive early and go straight to the relatively peaceful Ming dynasty YuYuan Gardens."

 

Any gardens in China are bound to be peaceful and lovely.

Felicia

[Osnab]

Tipping - In most instances, the hotels added a 10% "service" charge. I considered that part of the tip. I personally added (or not) 5% if appropriate.

 

I'm confused now. The hotel added a service charge, but you don't get a bill for the hotel, so how do you know the amount? Also, there are local guides as part of the excursions Viking offers, so what dollar amount (per person) would you tip them? And is it in dollars or yuan?

Felicia

[WIT]

I'm confused now. The hotel added a service charge, but you don't get a bill for the hotel, so how do you know the amount? Also, there are local guides as part of the excursions Viking offers, so what dollar amount (per person) would you tip them? And is it in dollars or yuan?

Felicia

Felicia - All charges for meals, drinks in the lobby, etc., are signed for by you and charged to your room. Viking pays for the room and certain meals. I signed VIKING RIVER for provided meals and my own name for extra charges I incurred. Each of these included an automatic 10% service fee and allowed a space for me to include more if I wished. At check out I paid for my drinks, internet charges and any extra I added to the 10% tip.

WIT

[WIT]

Thanks, Wit, but when I pulled up your profile, I didn't see anything about cameras. (What do I do, click on your name and that's all?)

 

Is the zoom part of the camera, or is it something you have to take on and remove?

 

How many seconds is the "next shot delay"?

Felicia

Sorry Felicia - I should have said click Find All Posts by ___ after clickiing my name. The exact post reviewing the camera is

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=466411

 

The camera will take about 3 shots per second in burst mode.

 

The non-removable 10X optical zoom uses a prism to keep most of the mechanism inside - it's only 1 1/2 inches at its thickest part (the lens). It is 2 1/2' high, 4 1/4' wide. It will fit easily in a pocket.

[coasters]

I want a smaller size camera without having to change lenses, but also one that zooms far and provides crystal clear pictures. I don't want a long delay between the time you press the button the first time and the 2nd time. (anything over 2 seconds is not an option)

 

I don't know if they make a camera like that. :)

Felicia

Felecia,

most digital camera reviews will provide the "shot to shot" or shutter delay time.

Remember also, that there are some optional functions that cause delays - however, fortunately, these can be set to the "off" position.

Such are: review (where the image you captured is presented for your review) and rotate - where a vertical image is automatically rotated within the camera.

Having both these set to "off" will cycle the next shot much faster. Also as Wit mentioned, you can also set to "burst" mode which will continue to snap several images until you take your finger off the shutter release button.

The "service charge" added to the included meals is included in the Viking package. You are not responsible for same... only anything above. I'd suggest you leave added tips as cash on the table - but ONLY if you feel it is so deserved for exceptional service. I was advised that average service should not be rewarded with an extra tip.

Jerry