Pocketable Carry Camera

I always hate best camera posts but I am posting one anyway.

I am looking for a small carry camera to replace my Canon G9. I also have a dSLR. There are only 2 absolutes that the camera absolutely must have - I must be able to drop it in my pocket and it must have either EVF or a 100% view OVF which I do not think exists. Everything else is negotiable including price.

Using the search function on dPreview, I come up with 4 candidates - Panasonic DMC-LF1, Nikon Coolpix P7800, Sony RX100 III and Panasonic ZS40.

I realize that the 4 cameras are totally different beasts and basically are not comparable. I am aware of the obvious advantages of each one in terms of sensor size, lens speed, zoom range, picture quality, etc.

My question is whether there are subtle pluses and minus to any of the cameras that are not obvious from looking at spec or reading reviews such as ease of handling, things that make you really regret buying one of them or extremely happy that you bought it, things about them that make you scream, etc. I do not know what sort of stuff I am looking for but to quote Donald Rumsfeld -

1) there are things that thing we know,

2) there are things that we know that we do not know and

3) there are things that we do not know that we do not know.

I guess that I am looking for stuff in the 3d group. The stuff I will only know after I put out the money for the camera.

DON

I have a 2 year old ZS19 and like what it does. The ZS40 should be a much improved version. The ZS25 has been on sale for a good price recently!

My quick synopsis view, if I were the buyer considering these...I'm not in the market for any of them, so I have nothing to promote - just analyzing if I were the buyer and had these 4 presented to me, what I would find most important:

First, the ZS40 is a superzoom - so sort of fits in another category for me - if you need lens reach above all else, that puts this one above the others. If telephoto reach isn't as important, then I'd consider other things.

The Nikon I personally would not consider comfortably pocketable...looks a little too thick if compact and put in a pocket is of importance.

When it comes down to it, the sensor size would be of significantly more importance to me than almost any other factor - so pocketable plus the largest sensor would be my pick - three of the cameras have a typical 1/1.7" P&S sensor - only the RX100 MkIII has a much larger 1" sensor - that makes it significantly more capable in low light, considering the fast F1.8-2.8 max aperture too. That it remains pocketable, and provides an EVF, would be top considerations for me. The additional photographic controls that the RX100 has built in would be very useful - such as the most excellent multi-stacking ISO mode, and a very good in-camera HDR mode. So the RX100 would be my pick of these, for the primary reason of the much larger sensor.

I have the Sony RX-100 II which lacks the viewfinder but I think the III version would be perfect if the price does not scare you. Here are my "impressions" other than the obvious technical details:

1. The biggest negative I find is that I don't take my DSLR on trips very often anymore. On driving trips when space & weight is not a concern I'll lug my massive DSLR bag but anymore 95% of trips that require commercial air travel I take the RX instead. It's photo quality in many circumstances rivals my DSLR with pro grade lenses and outclasses almost anything with a consumer grade lens. It's a very good camera.

2. Get the stick on grip for the RX. It's over priced ($15) but it looks like a part of the camera and not an after thought and it really does help improve the grip. Especially when using the camera with one hand. It also improves your grip when just carrying the camera as it's rather slippery without it.

3. The RX will do about everything your DSLR can which is a plus and a negative. The menus are deep. Well laid out but there is a lot there. The camera is highly customizable and allows you to program features to the control ring and buttons. So, if you bother to set up the camera it can be almost as fast & easy to use as a DSLR so you're not digging through menus when shooting.

What if I throw the Sony A6000 into the mix. It is not pocketable but I was playing w it today and it seems like a very versatile camera and it is fairly small.

DON

 

I have a 2 year old ZS19 and like what it does. The ZS40 should be a much improved version.

 

. . . if I were the buyer and had these 4 presented to me, what I would find most important:

 

First, the ZS40 is a superzoom - so sort of fits in another category for me - if you need lens reach above all else, that puts this one above the others. If telephoto reach isn't as important, then I'd consider other things.

My wife has a two year-old ZS19, which has a Leica 20x optical zoom (24-480mm using 35mm equivalent). The Leica lens is SHARP, often outperforming my DSLR.

We have upcoming travel that will involve photographing wildlife. So my wife wanted a camera with a longer reach. She got a ZS40 which has an EVF and a Leica 30x optical zoom (24-720mm using 35mm equivalent). Once again, the lens is SHARP. The only disadvantage I'm aware of with this camera is the battery charges in the camera. So we had to buy an aftermarket battery charger.

For a pocketable camera that takes sharp photos and has an EVF, I suggest the ZS40.

Woody

What if I throw the Sony A6000 into the mix. It is not pocketable but I was playing w it today and it seems like a very versatile camera and it is fairly small.

 

DON

I think that is a really good camera, only one thing to think of, and that is noise at high ISO. Sony's 24 Mpix APS-C are not "best in class" when it comes to noise.

Maybe Panasonic GX7 could be an option, if you are thinking of cameras with interchangeable lenses?

MFT has some very nice lenses and you barely can't see the difference in noise at high ISO compared to APS-C today. According to samples I have seen it's better than the Sony A6000 in that respect. It's slightly bigger (not much though).

It's a pity that Pany GM1 does not have an optional EVF, because that is a tiny camera with interchangeable lenses. Same great sensor as in GX7.

About the Sony RX100III - I've read tests that says this it's the best pocketable camera you can buy regarding picture quality. On the other hand I have also read that the handling of the camera is not that "inspirational". The ring around the lens for example - it's not "stepped" just free floating and it can be a bit tricky if you, for example, have set it to change aperture. That should have been easier to do if it had steps instead, like the Canon S120. I played with it a couple of weeks ago in a photo store and if I turned the lens ring certain degrees and turned it back again the same amount of degrees it didn't always show the same value.

On the other hand I think I will buy the Sony RX100III anyway, due to the sensor and it's good movie mode. It will make a nice complement to my old (but still really nice) Pany GX1.

So much to choose from... :D

/Erik

The days of bashing Sony's 24MP APS-C sensor are pretty much in the past. the results from the Nikon D5300 and A6000 show it to be able to carry it's own weight quite nicely.

Using DPReview's comparison tool, I matched the A6000 with the GX7 to see how much better the GX7 really was...Imagine my surprise!

3200

6400

12800

25600

I have to admit that the GX7 holds up remarkably well considering that the sensor is only about 60% as large as the one in the A6000. But since the OP was looking for a pocket camera, the A6000 and the larger and heavier GX7 really won't fill the bill. For pocketable image quality I would have to agree with Justin that when you gather all the features and specs, The RX100III is very hard to beat.

I gave up my HX5V when my new phone arrived but I am back in the market for a quality pocket camera and like you said, the overall RX100III package has some bumps, but at the moment, it's the best out there.

Dave

Indeed it's worth noting that the 24MP sensor in the A6000 is not the same one as in the NEX7 and previous Sonys...it's actually improved significantly for high ISO work, and is about as capable as any on the market today - one of the tops. I had the NEX-5N with the vaunted 16MP APS-C sensor which was widely regarded as one of the finest ever made, and my A6000's 24MP sensor can shoot cleanly 1 stop higher. That means ISO12,800 is now my top normal, usable range, rather than ISO6400. I have the A6000, and I personally find it a stunningly brilliant camera, a huge step up over my NEX-5N, and easily competing with my DSLR for focus speed, tracking, and high ISO work. Some 'real world' high ISO shots with my A6000 - these are all shot in JPG mode, and unprocessed:

ISO6,400:

ISO8,000:

ISO12,800:

Dave, I agree, not much of a difference between A6000 and GX7. I'm a bit surprised as I have seen other samples that showed a bigger difference to the GX7 advantage.

On a pixel level the GX7 looks slightly sharper though, which probably means that it has less noise reduction in the setting DPR used.

Looking at another comparison, for a "night shot", the GX7 looks slightly less noisy. Again it may have to do with the level of noise reduction but I think they are fairly similar regarding detail level.

Sorry, something went wrong when I did a screen dump. :o It looks like the size doubled - maybe it has something to do with the Retina screen on My MacBook.

It should not be this bad in original size.

Comparing the sensor size and resolution it's no surprise that the noise levels are similar, 16 Mpix in a MFT and 24 Mpix in a APS-C gives almost the same size for each pixel in the sensor (by a few %).

But since the OP was looking for a pocket camera, the A6000 and the larger and heavier GX7 really won't fill the bill.

It was the OP that mentioned the A6000. With a kit pancake zoom the weight is 2 grams in favor for the GX7, so it's not exactly heavier (body only is 16 grams heavier though). If you put the pancake for the GM1 (12-32/3,5-5,6) on the GX7 it's even 25 grams lighter. That is my point regarding the MFT - less bulky and lighter lenses, even if it's not a big difference. Once again it's a pity the GM1 doesn't have an EVF. The camera body is even smaller than the RX100III.

On the other hand you can't go wrong with a Sony, as it's in general high quality gear. They are also among the most innovative companies, so we can expect more great cameras and lenses from them in the future.

Maybe I'll take a look at an A7. Seems to be a great camera, not expensive at all compared to other full frame cameras (same prize as an Oly OM-D E-M1 with about 25% sensor size...).

zackiedawg, nice shots from the A6000. Maybe I can try at least 3200 with my old GX1. :D

At this size the noise doesn't bother at all. Many of us tend to pixel peep and forget what it's really all about; taking good photos and enjoy looking at them!

Imagine in the film days - photos like that would be hard to take.

I was going to play a little with a RX100III today, but the camera store I was in only had the MK2. That was a pity, otherwise I guess I had come home with a new camera. Will try to find one before my next cruise. :D

To the OP; happy camera hunting! :)

/Erik

The key is what do you want this camera for or to do (period). Do you want a camera that you take along every time you go out? Do you want something lighter & smaller than a DSLR?

I went through this decision process last year. In the end it came down to what would fit in the pocket of cargo pants or a light jacket. I already have DSLR gear so anything that still had to be carried around my neck put it in that large "neck strap" category. Yea, many camera systems would have dramatically cut the weight versus my DSLR but it would still be a camera around my neck and might get left behind when I didn't want to wear an albatross.

I did not want to slip into four system scenario of having a DSLR, a smaller neck strap camera, a higher end pocket camera and a waterproof. Anything on a neck strap still did not satisfy the need to take a camera along when I really don't want a camera around my neck. Yes, there are some incredible systems out there but it's still dangling around your neck.

Sometime in the future I'll probably drop the DSLR altogether and get a mirrorless with a couple pro grade lenses, a highish pocketable camera and a waterproof.

zackiedawg, nice shots from the A6000. Maybe I can try at least 3200 with my old GX1. :D

At this size the noise doesn't bother at all. Many of us tend to pixel peep and forget what it's really all about; taking good photos and enjoy looking at them!

Imagine in the film days - photos like that would be hard to take.

Thank you - indeed I remember pushing Tri-X film to 1600 - cool grainy look, but certainly not anything like what can be done with digital today!

And I didn't want to post as a 'camera vs camera' comparison - I think there are lots of great cameras out there today - the A6000 among them. I just wanted to show that the 24MP sensor has improved in noise control and detail at higher ISOs compared to the previous version, which was admittedly not as clean. I don't generally post the full-res shots, as I don't like to put my stuff out on the web - I've had some 'borrowing' issues in the past (aka: theft). But if it's just a sample shot or a junk shot, I don't mind. I posted a few larger high ISO samples in my gallery over at Dpreview - they are slightly downsized as Dpreview doesn't allow 6000-pixel dimension, but still quite large to give an idea of how the high ISO does for pixel-peepers...here are links to two of them - once at the link, click 'original' to see the biggest copy:

ISO12,800, sized to 1,600 long end - this is cropped about 80%:

http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/3702150612/photos/2975820/my-cat-at-iso12800

Here's a crazy-high ISO 25,600, sized to 3,000 pixels on the long end:

http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/3702150612/photos/2975821/iso25-600

It's quite good - comparable and a little better than my NEX-5N, and with the extra MP there's more room to crop, or to resize and remove some noise and still have a pretty big print size.

I love what many of the manufacturers are doing in mirrorless - Sony's very good PDAF system on the A6000, Panasonic's very good CDAF DFD defocus depth analysis system, Oly's still best-in-class stabilization, Fuji's fine lens collection, and so on. Lots of great choices out there!

After a long southeast Asia tour the back of my neck was raw from the DSLR camera strap....and it was a padded and wide one. Perspiration etc, just acted as an abrasive!

On my return home I started looking for a small but well featured 'deluxe point and shoot'. A viewfinder was a preferred feature....but the single most important was that it shoot in RAW! I cannot count the number of times I've been able to either save or really help quickly shot images, taken without time to prepare.

Since I virtually always wear a belt I decided that though a pocketable camera may be nice...notwithstanding the lint and other stuff found in pockets, I settled on a Canon G15...came down to a choice between that and a Panasonic (I forget the model) but the Panasonic does not have a viewfinder.

I fit the camera, a spare battery, and two extra SD cards into this Lowepro case that goes on my belt. Now I have a camera with me at all times and no sore neck. (I use smaller cards, change them every day. The first image on the card is a shot of my lap-top screen, with DATE, LOCATION, etc., this way I know what is on the card. And if, IF a card fails I lose only one day, not the whole trip.):)

A different approach to convenient camera availability...but works well for me.

What if I throw the Sony A6000 into the mix. It is not pocketable but I was playing w it today and it seems like a very versatile camera and it is fairly small.

 

DON

Just bought the A6000. Even tried it out w one of my Nikon lenses and it worked.

The thing is tiny compared to my dSLR setup. Should make carrying it more enjoyable.

DON

I carry a Canon 110 with me everywhere. The new one is the 120. It's a little pricey but has image quality that rivals some DSLR's.

I also take the big guy (Canon7d) and L series glass on every cruise.

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