Marty156
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Posts posted by Marty156
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Noticed that since the event in 2013, the T&C's have already been changed -and are changing- as per this link, If you want to read the complete T&C's.
NB: Evergreen = subset of Scenic --> same office etc
(If you do, you would not partake, I'm sure)
If you don't want to read it all, the pertinent clause is 2.10
Has varied considerably since the 2013 floods in Europe.
As DougOz mentioned, it is amazing about so called "Free Insurance" AFTER the trip commences. Free? Scenic? Hahaha.
So what happens if there are floods BEFORE you board?
Waiting with great anticipation on the judgement of the current action.
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How long do cases like this usually take from this point in the Australian legal system?
Hi Just Jazz
At least a few more months.
It has been ongoing for a while already.
Thousands of pages of documentation are involved that the judge will need to read, and also place his learned various weighting on what the passengers expected and/or received.
How long did the company know beforehand about any problems and why did they virtually force people onto buses?
Can a cruise ship be fairly substituted by a bus/coach?
What alternatives (if any) were the pax given?
What are the legal implications of the purchaser allegedly being bound to complex T&C's -just by paying a deposit?
As passengers were aware of the flooding from news and other media, why did the company not know?
Can a 1 in 500 year flood across a river system consisting of the Rhine, the Main and the Danube be classified as a "sudden and unexpected interruption"?
Could this possibly be expected to return to normal within a day or two?
There are of course many more questions than this that are required to be evaluated, weighed and judged.
Believe me, a $20,000+ bus ride and stuck on non-moving floating hotels is NOT what the pax purchased!
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UPDATE on the Scenic/Evergreen current Class Action:
"...There are a number of documents which demonstrate that Scenic had actual knowledge of the rising river levels prior to the commencement of your cruises and that they elected not to advise the Australian travellers of this fact despite advising UK travellers...."
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Just as a comparison for a cruise/holiday cost from the Antipodes.
Including air fares to the USA we average a daily cost of USD $520 per person for 2014/5.
This has increased from around USD $470 per day per person since 2011.
Upside down calculator!! Make that PER COUPLE not per person.
Sorry.:o
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Just as a comparison for a cruise/holiday cost from the Antipodes.
Including air fares to the USA we average a daily cost of USD $520 per person for 2014/5.
This has increased from around USD $470 per day per person since 2011.
Must confess, this includes a cruise, air fares from Australia, hotels, food, car hire and all other costs.
If you acknowledge the exhorbitant cost of booking a US cruise from down under, at our grossly overcharged prices, the OP could live it up first class in comparison to our costs!
Just my 4 cents worth (doubled costs).
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Just to clarify. It is not the flooding that people are upset with, it's being told that you will have a wonderful river cruise vacation, which you've spent $X0000,00 to take and then you are put onto a bus for several days. The concern with the line in question was how to cruise lines handle the situation. It's understandable there are situations that are beyond the control of the cruise lines, but CRUISE LINES DO CONTROL HOW THEY TREAT THIER GUESTS.
Having myself lived through a major flood in 1974, I empathise with all those that suffered in Europe in 2013.
However, as gentlemancruiser says, it is the WAY that the cruise companies handled the problems and looked after (or not!) their guests which is the crux of the matter, as the OP originally mentioned.
Being told lies, untruths and evading questions from passengers is not a way to instill confidence. Being told that the "River level is dropping in a city" several days BEFORE the peak was (correctly) predicted to occur is not being truthful.
Did the company know? Of course! Even the local Antipodes news carried information about the floods.
How is it possible that only a couple of companies (AFAIK) did NOT cancel any cruises? Were they so ignorant of the facts?
I'm not for a minute suggesting that a flood situation DURING a cruise can be alleviated, but deliberately NOT cancelling a cruise when the company knew DAYS IN ADVANCE that they could not provide it, and knowing that other companies were cancelling cruises both before the scheduled cruise date and even for a week after that date does not sound very honest to this poster!
At departure in a far-far-away land, most cruise companies had their representative waiting at the airport saying 'Sorry, your cruise is cancelled" and we will refund you.
Yet,at the same airport, at the same time, certain cruise companies were conspicuous by their absence and lack of ANY information to their passengers about to depart on a 20+ hour flight!
Those passengers did NOT RECEIVE ANY information until they arrived in Europe on the day of the cruise -or the night before.
Did the cruise company not know that river traffic was closed for weeks?
Did their cruise use a set of different rivers???
Did they deliberately mis-inform pax in saying that they would only be on a bus for a maximum of 3 days and it became 7 days out of the 15 day cruise? (In some cases pax cruised for less than 2 days in 15).
With reference to travel insurance, yes, we had purchased it. Was it useful?
NO! Because the cruise company REFUSED to cancel the cruise!
Would the cruise company have lost any $?
1. Ships have been leased, crew and provisions arranged.
2. All passengers have fully paid.
3. If the cruise was cancelled, what cost would there be to the cruise company? (Considering passengers would have been able to claim on their insurance?)
I leave that question to the readers.
SO, why did some of the cruise companies refuse to cancel their cruise, KNOWING THE COULD NOT PROVIDE IT or provide a comparable alternative!
Are we being unfair to certain specific cruise companies?
I do not think so.
Buying a ticket on a plane from say Boston to LAX and then replacing it with a Ferry or Train is NOT what was originally purchased.
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Cashmeremypuppydog.
A very familiar sound refrain?
I know exactly how you feel, been there and got fleeced as well.
Our story about a different company in 2013 shows even more disdain for their passengers!
http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1892421
(With 29,000+ reads, I suspect that they may have lost a few potential passengers - I hope!)
It also appears that the amount of refund (if any) depends very much on the weight of complaints that one can arrange against a company.
We were promised a refund, eventually offered a measly $500 each (for an outlay of $20,000) but have never received it!
Go legal and fight for all you can.!
PS: You should see the millions of $ they are spending in advertising!
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Scenic have just lost one Court case and had to repay thousands of dollars back to one couple, due to their mis-handling of the 2013 Europe floods.
Many more cases are in progress.
Scenic and Evergreen have always leased their ships, until at least 2013.
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Quick search on Internet shows:-
A new cruise operator, Haimark, will launch a luxury Mekong experience, starting in winter 2013-2014. The company also plans exotic voyages on the Irrawaddy River in Myanmar and the Ganges River in India.
Based in Breckenridge, CO, Haimark is a U.S. company with U.S.-based procurement and contracting. The new company’s name reflects the cruise line’s three partners. All have extensive experience in river cruising and Southeast Asia.
Well-known to agents is Tom Markwell, the former vice president of sales and marketing for Pandaw River Cruises. During Markwell’s three-year tenure at Pandaw he was responsible for contracting for three new vessels on the Mekong for Uniworld and Avalon Waterways.
In 2012, he ventured off to form Haimark with another partner, Marcus Leskovar, also formerly with Pandaw's U.S. office and with years of hotel and cruise operational experience, and Giang Hai, an experienced ground operator in Southeast Asia.
The Haimark operation now handles land arrangements for more than 4,000 people annually to Southeast Asia; that occurs through seven ground offices under Hai's direction throughout the region.
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Of course one expects to receive what one pays for.
But a refusal to cancel a risky river cruise during the biggest floods in 500+ years and substitute it with a bus is not a 'viable alternate'.
By not cancelling, the travel insurance industry rightly refuses to pay compensation to anyone foolish enough to have paid $16,000 for a two week cruise which was not supplied!
There are many additional links about the Europe river floods in 2013 and how various companies responded.
Here are some other links you might care to look at....Please note that some are a few years old, but are continuing -showing that Scenic has not changed their ways.
Read the latest comments:
http://www.notgoodenough.org/viewtopic.php?t=37745
http://www.productreview.com.au/r/scenic-tours/460911.html
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....I'm losing confidence and this isn't a good thing while I'm still in the booking stage.:(
~~Judy
Judy, there are MANY adverse comments about Scenic Cruises and their offshoot Evergreen on cruise critic, as well as on trip advisor.
Not surprised you are not getting the requested information.
We are still waiting or a prommised lousy $500 refund on a $20,000 cruise that ended up a bus ride.
Check this link
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...Vantage did NOT turn the Rivercruise into a bus trip but instead gave them a refund for the remainder of the trip and sent them home. Good communication and customer service is so important!
Don't I wish we had gone with anyone else! Although Viking did not do the right thing initially, but they did see the error of their ways!
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Do remember the negative post,s but seems MOST people were upset by the cruise lines treatment and forced bus tour.
Even with travel insurance,most claims were not approved due to technicalities.
Was just afraid "if it looks TOO GOOOD??"
Guess I ll know in a few mos.right?
Have also read great Scenic reviews,brochure looks GREAT,And my TA(an Aussie)has taken 2 and LOVED them.Like knowing ahead of time what total trip will cost.Love having all tips,exc.etc.inc.....;)
Being one of the people very upset at treatment received by Scenic and their offshoot company, see http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1892421, may I draw your attention to the fine print in their T&C that says (Italics my emphasis):
" Pictures, Images and Information
All images in Tour Brochures represent typical scenes and descriptive detail for each tour , however it is possible that the particular subject matter may not be seen or experienced on Tour.
Also, some pictures may have been digitally enhanced."
Your Money May Vary
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"tricky wording.:(
Just as the wording on the itinerary says "Cabin with Balcony" did NOT mean an actual balcony, just a window that opens half way down and known to some as a "French Balcony"
MUST read the fine print.... :eek:
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OOps!:o
My bad. Too late to edit previous post.
Correction:
Correct! Such an option is NOT available to Australians/New Zealanders.
I believe its also NOT available outside of North America?
Be a nice option to have here though!
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I believe that you can't buy 'CANCEL ANY REASON' travel insurance in Australia. I would be happy to be told otherwise though.
Correct! Such an ioption is not available to Australians/New Zealanders.
I believe its available outside of North America?
Be a nice option to have here though!
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And I ALWAYS get insurance,just in case.
This is marketed as LUXURY and we ll see.;)
Unfortunately, and certainly from Oz, having travel insurance (which we did have) was useless in this particular instance.
The travel insurance company wrote stating that IF Scenic/Evergreen HAD cancelled, we would have received a full refund!
Insurance did not cover a single cent as the "itinerary" was -sort of- followed by using a bus. Never mind if the itinerary was by a rowboat or by horseback!
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Alexandra Cruiser,
Hope your luck pans out, but don't hold your breath if something/anything goes wrong.
As for a LARGE refund?
Ha ha! (Unless you feel that a $500 refund is adequate recompense)
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Fragonard,
Not only your opinion, but those of several others who have had their comments removed must also feel undervalued.
However, the majority of opinions that have been received on here and other places, show that people ARE interested and would like to know the outcomes.
Now I'm wondering if this is just an "Australian" thing about poor customer service like Scenic/Evergreen, as I recently came across another blog that also highlights pathetic customer service and response to legitimate concerns.
http://blog.travelpod.com/travel-blog/cruise_from_hel/1/tpod.html
..and I thought our own issues were serious!
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Winter?
We have just endured several days above 40 degrees C...
Picture postcards of European Christmas cards are in high demand to make us pretend its cooler -somewhere!
Yes, there are several other Australian companies that do River cruises, all the others (bar one -which has learned from their mistake) treated their guests properly with cancellations and full refunds.
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During the 2013 floods, passengers with Scenic Tours and/or Evergreen Tours were treated to the most unsatisfactory behaviour of any company.
So much so, that there is going to be a CLASS ACTION against them in early 2014 due to the lies, mis-information and dishonest tactics to attempt to deafeat any claims against a refund.
They offered some a $500 refund on a $10,000 cruise! Some have never received any offer.
Anyone that was with Scenic Tours or Evergreen Tours during the 2013 floods and were basically ignored by the company after returning home, there will be a Class Action in Australia against this company in early 2014.
For more information regarding the abysmal performance of Scenic Tours during the floods in Europe, please message me directly to find out about the Class Action to be held against them.
It does NOT matter if you have actually received the offered pittance of the $500 refund, as it will cost you nothing to be included!
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During the 2013 floods, passengers with Scenic Tours and/or Evergreen Tours were treated to the most unsatisfactory behaviour of any company.
So much so, that there is going to be a CLASS ACTION against them in early 2014 due to the lies, mis-information and dishonest tactics to attempt to deafeat any claims against a refund.
They offered some a $500 refund on a $10,000 cruise! Some have never received any offer.
Anyone that was with Scenic Tours or Evergreen Tours during the 2013 floods and were basically ignored by the company after returning home, there will be a Class Action in Australia against this company in early 2014.
For more information regarding the abysmal performance of Scenic Tours during the floods in Europe, please message me directly to find out about the Class Action to be held against them.
It does NOT matter if you have actually received the offered pittance of the $500 refund, as it will cost you nothing to be included!
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All river cruises seem to be on a par, however when things go wrong and how the company treats you is the real telling factor.
At least one couple we know of cruised for a total of 6 hours during the 15 days! Others had varying times, we did not cruise for 7 of the 15 days.
Read the (dated) but nevertheless factual account of the behaviour of Scenic/Evergreen on:
http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1892421
During the 2013 floods, passengers with Scenic Tours and/or Evergreen Tours were treated to the most unsatisfactory behaviour of any company.
So much so, that there is going to be a CLASS ACTION against them in early 2014 due to the lies, mis-information and dishonest tactics to attempt to deafeat any claims against a refund.
They offered some a $500 refund on a $10,000 cruise! Some have never received any offer.
Anyone that was with Scenic Tours or Evergreen Tours during the 2013 floods and were basically ignored by the company after returning home, there will be a Class Action in Australia against this company in early 2014.
For more information regarding the abysmal performance of Scenic Tours during the floods in Europe, please message me directly to find out about the Class Action to be held against them.
It does NOT matter if you have actually received the offered pittance of the $500 refund, as it will cost you nothing to be included!
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Great that Viking have learned their lesson! Pity they have not forwarded their learnings to Scenic!
However, anyone that was with Scenic Tours or Evergreen Tours during the 2013 floods and were basically ignored by the company after returning home, be advised that there will be a Class Action in Australia against this company in early 2014.
For more information regarding the abysmal performance of Scenic Tours during the floods in Europe, please message me directly to find out about the Class Action to be held against them.
It does NOT matter if you have actually received the offered pittance of the $500 refund, as it will cost you nothing to be included!
ANOTHER BIG CLASS ACTION - Bus tour not 5* river cruise
in Australia & New Zealand Cruisers
Posted · Edited by Marty156
Hi Cyrix400,
It sounds like you might be have been one of the claimants or were present at Court for the hearing?