Marty156
-
Posts
277 -
Joined
Content Type
Forums
Store
Blogs
Downloads
Events
Gallery
Posts posted by Marty156
-
-
For more information regarding the abysmal performance of Scenic Tours during the floods in Europe, please message me to find out about the Class Action to be held against them in Australia.
It does NOT matter if you have received a pittance as a refund and it will cost you nothing to be included!
-
There are some great cruises, and some that can be the complete opposite.
Do a lot of research as to which company you wish to use, and how they treat their guests when there is a problem.
For example, http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1892421 shows how guests are forcibly shoved onto busses although the company knew that the rivers were not passable.
Lucky us received almost 7 days of cruising out of 15, others only received 2 days!
A class action against that company "Scenic Tours" is comencing shortly!
-
A class action is being instigated against Scenic Tours / Evergreen Tours in Australia.
Check the link for further information
http://www.somervillelegal.com.au/page16858/Scenic-Tours-Class-Action.aspx
-
Don't know anything about Scenic, so I can't comment.
At the risk of repeating myself, do yourself a favour and check out some of the bad comments against Scenic and their offshoot companies.
Apart from the so-so daily issues, check out what happens wwhen things go wrong (like floods) and they force you onto busses!
There are many links on Trip Advisor and Cruise Critic discussing the poor customer service of Scenic!
Some links to read:
(Start reading this one from about the 2013 time frame, although the thread starts in 2009)
http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1909837
Then there is our own opinion from the 2013 floods with a Scenic subsidiary (Evergreen Tours), although no recent comments have been to added to it, hence the thread has dropped out of sight.
-
We are experienced travelers, but our disappointment (I keep using that word) with this cruise really turned us off toward river cruising. There were so many issues that I have not mentioned, but between brusque crew, poor food, poorly planned tours, and a terrible cruise director, AMA Waterways has lost our respect. If we do another river cruise, it will be with another cruise line.
This sounded so much like our (bus) cruise 1 week into the major floods that I had to look twice to see it was a different company.
I feel for you and have empathy as the food/entertainment/service is not up to expectations and especially at the price charged in Australia to do such a cruise.
May I strongly suggest that you do not consider Scenic Tours or any of their other names as they were monumental in destroying what should have been a trip of a lifetime in June/July this year.
There is review on CC that I did earlier if you want more information.
-
Anyone else have experiences when things go wrong?
Unfortunately, yes!
http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1892421
Many more examples on Trip Advisor as well.
-
I hope you are right about the comments. We left extensive comments and also left our e-mail address. We have not heard a word from Scenic. Other cruiselines have always contacted us to address issues we may have mentioned in the survey.
Good luck with hearing anything from Scenic -or their many other company names they use.
From bitter experience, Scenic have NOT learned from previous issues but tend to always force the trip -no matter by what means- and pay a maximum compensation of $500.
They have been successfully sued previously because of mis-information and not providing what was purchased by the customer!
-
A recent aticle in "The Australian" newspaper on October 12, 2013 is gaining traction showing the plight of many guests regarding the unethical behaviour of some Australian Europe River Cruise companies following the disastrous floods in Europe earlier this year.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/travel/when-the-rivers-run/story-e6frg8rf-1226736981342
-
We have been on Avalon and AMA and are thinking of taking a Scenic River Boat. I would appreciate any feedback on their sevice. Does their dining rooms have tables for 2 or 4?
Thanks.
Not to put a damper on your trip, but it might pay to check out some of the comments on Trip Advisor such as http://www.tripadvisor.com.au/ShowTopic-g1-i10703-k3727369-o70-Scenic_Tours_European_River_Cruises-Cruises.html
and start reading from around May june 2013.
....as well as other posts and forums re the behaviour of Scenic during the floods.
There are also comments on this Cruise Critic forum detailing their lack of customer service.
When things go wrong is when the organisation can be looked at with favour or disfavour.
-
Marty, first of all let me thank you for posting your review of that unfortunate river cruise/bus trip with Scenic. Secondly let me say that I am very sorry that your anticipated trip was such a disappointment.
I can't believe how timely this is. We attended a presentation by Scenic just yesterday and we were very impressed with the product. We were even thinking we might just sign up for their cruise from Budapest to Amsterdam for 2015 even though it is a lot of money! Well, your post has put an end to this dream. Thank you again.
Hi YVR cruiser,
Glad to have been able warn you and others.
'tis a pity I did not place the names of Scenic or Evergreen in the original header!
I'm sure your trip will be a memorable one, in much better and happier circumstances. Enjoy the trip!
-
As promised, Joost Ouendag did contact us this morning.
Our matter has been amicably resolved.
Congratulations!
Seems like enough bad publicity has made Viking sit up and take notice in responding favourably.
Can you now please also persuade Viking to buy out Scenic Tours?
-
More people are voicing their complaints about the behaviour of Scenic Tours
-
Amazing!
A response from the company...
Now if only Scenic Tours / Evergreen Tours management could go to the same Public Relations course then perhaps many disappointed people would be placated and pacified.
-
Marty
just found your post and first of all, I have to say I have a lot of empathy for you and anyone whose holidays do not live up to expectations.
<snip>
But what was within your tour company's control was cancellation which IMO should have happened.
<snip>
I would also tell you (tho' I'm not had any legal training) that their contract or Terms and Conditions do not over ride any legislation that I'm aware of. A court or a tribunal (administrative or consumer) could and indeed has awarded compensation to Australians on river cruises in Europe who have not received what they paid for or who were misled etc etc.
<snip>
.
Hi Dougo in OZ
Firstly thank you for your kind words and encouragement.
Interesting to see that they have been in Court before and lost!
We did not use a TA, so in fact they are offering us part of what they would have paid as a commission!
We will certainly continue onwards, and if (as we believe) the Courts decide in our favour, then this will open the flood gates (Pun intended) to many hundreds of others that were in the "same boat" (or pehaps one of the other ships!)
Thank you very much for your empathy and encouragement!
Marty156
-
Excellent posts from Mark T and pully8 above in response to Osnab's post, and I would like to add something from the perspective of someone who has gone through a natural disaster (hurricane not flood).
The location of Marty156 indicates he lives in Queensland, Australia (as I do also – but it is a big state, and no, I don’t know him, there are about 4 million of us
So, a little background if I may. The 1974 floods that Marty156 refers to here in Queensland were devastating.......
(My experience with a natural disaster was in 1974, when our house was torn apart by a cyclone (hurricane) in the northern city of Darwin - with us in it - and we nearly died. This happened on Christmas Eve – and is still remembered by Australians all these years later.)
So…. both Marty156 and I have first-hand experience of being in a devastating natural disaster like the floods in Europe.
However I would certainly complain as he has done – not of course if a natural disaster disrupted my travel plans (!) – but if a tour operator behaved as poorly as Scenic Tours/Evergreen did following such an event. It wouldn’t be whining or lack of sympathy! Remember that many other river tour operators looked after their similarly-affected customers very well. Also, anyone who has experienced a disaster of these proportions, ie losing everything you own, is also quite likely to have taken many years to recover financially – that was certainly the case for our family and the friends who went through the 1974 cyclone. Therefore holidays are keenly anticipated, people save for retirement and to be able to travel. Marty said earlier on this thread that his tour cost 16K - and he also said “It certainly killed our 'holiday of a lifetime' and with the exhorbitant costs from 'down under' we will never be able to do that trip again.”
What he wanted was a “fair go” (Australian expression) from the tour company Scenic Tours/Evergreen. He didn’t get it.
Thank you so very much for your most eloquent response Emma Chisit!
Certainly better put and far clearer than how I could possibly say it.
As for your own situation Emma Chisit, I think I still have my yellow T shirt emblazone with "I cleaned up Darwin, Cyclone Tracy, 1974" so enough said about that. I still have many sad photos of the aftermath of that event.
It is gratifying to me that there are so many people that believe we were 'ripped off' and all we would like is equitable compensation.
I'm very deeply touched by the expressions of empathy shown by all the comments, and especially by the recent comments from:
Emma Chisit, MMDown Under, Mark T, Pully8, CruzeMaven
-
Marty:
Second, I am going to be the Cheese Stands Alone in my comments, which are more of a "devil's advocate" than trying to blast you (except for my last paragraph).
<snip> <snip>
I totally understand that you did not pay for the bus, you paid for a cruise that actually sailed, not sat in dock. "We will sail tonite" - did they say this or "We hope to sail tonite."
<snip><snip
Sincerely,
The Cheese Stands Alone,
Felicia
Hi there Cheese who stands alone, (Osnab)
There always is a contrarian view, and I do not have any issue with that.
However,
We were in Europe for a total of 7 weeks, the middle two were supposed to be a rest 'n recreation on a calm, 'unpack once' glide up the rivers.
So, we already knew the extent of the damage, the loss of life and other issues a week prior. As did the company!
Taking your points in order, having no fish is not the issue, the issue is the lack of such a meal on a business class fare (purchased through the same company).
We would love to have such an option in this country as "Cancel for any Reason". There isn't. In fact our travel policies are more like "YOU cannot cancel no matter what -without total loss of your payment."
When around 50% of the guests (some having just arrived only a few hours earlier after around 20 hours of flying) are being told that the only options are to
1) Walk away -go home and lose your $16,000 approx or
2) Be in hotel for a couple of nights then a bus ride ....perhaps...maybe...we should be....ship....
Not being told the full story, being given misinformation and fed little bits day by day in tiny nibbles is not ethical, nor is it morally fair.
Yes, of course this fractures the group!
Which brings me to the next point, perhaps you might know how far it is between Oodnadatta and Nar Nar Goon North, but us from 'Down under' do not know Europe's distances, nor were we informed that being on two different 'ships' for 5 nights meant that they were stuck and did not move!
"Swapping" ships normally means that both ships go as far as they can towards each other and then turn about. So that people can swap over and sail. Not in our case! And this was well known to the company, as they had been playing the same "Shell" game for other bookings, not just ours, and for weeks!
Busses? They were booked and planned to be used by the company many days ahead. As I said, the company knew that conditions on the rivers would take a long time to normalise. (eg: End of July before the last lock was repaired enabling traffic in/out of Budapest)
As for WiFi, it is trivial to permit/deny access based on someone's login. It takes a couple of key clicks to do so. You might have picked up from re-reading my story that I am in the IT field?
I understand where you are coming from, and yes, our sympathy also went out to those that lost everything (we have many floods here also and I lost all in the 1974 floods) and know full well the devastation and loss of life that happens.
Having said that, we, the paying consumer, should not have to put up with such shoddy behaviour like this and that is why there are Consumer Laws to protect us from such behaviour.
Please take the time to re-read my tale of woe, it is not in the frame of mind of a 'lousy holiday'. In fact, the other 5 weeks we spent travelling around (Italy, Croatia, Holland, Belgium, Germany, Austria France) was absolutely fantastic!
Let me hasten to assure you, Cheese Who Stands Alone, that I believe your comments will stand alone, as most other responders have understood that it was not a gripe about a trip per se, but about an expensive non-cruise by a company that was exploiting their guests and deserves to be mentioned for their unsavioury practices.
All companies can appear to be good when things run smoothly, its what happens when they don't that make the odd ones stand out!
However, I thank you for your thoughts.
PS: They said "We will sail" more than once.
-
Did you book with Scenic - or with Evergreen?
Do Scenic and Evergreen share all back office functions? Or - just share some services? Or, does Evergreen run independently under the Scenic parent?
If they are fairly independent, it seems as if the issue is more with Evergreen and not Scenic.
I was curious about the company - as I hadn't heard about them until your original post - and anything that I can find on line (realizing I am not in Aus or NZ) doesn't identify them as anything but an independent company.
Fran
Hi Franski,
They share everything, offices, staff and are at the same address.
The main difference is that Evergreen is the budget version, and does not include all side trips, all day alcohol and (probably!) free water in the cabins!
Whereas Scenic appear to own ships, Evergreen leases theirs from Luftner.
By the way, both companies behaved in the same manner, forcing people on busses instead of cancelling. Even knowing that the rivers would be impassable for weeks.
-
Keep fighting Marty, don't give up until a Court hears the case.
.. .. ..
You might want to find articles about what the other river companies did to recompense their passengers. Good Luck!
Thanks agabbymama, for your encouragement!
We are not giving up!
There are a group of us that are not apathetic and we will not just 'lie down and take it'. Australians are known for their "She'll be right" attitude, but not this black duck!
Its a significant amount of life savings to be wasted on one company's greed! Think of the bad public relations they must be receiving?
A lot of material -from when other companies cancelled days ahead of ours- to photos of conditions and other evidence is all being collated.
Included are letters from the company stating that there will be a 'refund'.
An offer of $550 pp on an outlay of $16,000 for 50% of a missed cruise is just not acceptable.
-
Apologies Nixmuts, if my reply sounded harsh. Was not meant to be like that at all.
(That's the problem with non-verbal communication, one cannot see the expression on the speakers face to know it was meant with tongue in cheek.)
Any and all comments and suggestions are most welcome!
Companies should not be allowed to change the rules to suit them -without any options for the buyer.
I think that's known as an "Unfair Contract"
-
2.17 What if I am unhappy with something on tour?
If You are unhappy with something that does not happen on Your tour, You must first use all reasonable endeavours to negotiate with Us in good faith to settle the dispute before commencing proceedings in any court or tribunal
You think emails to the Swiss operations manager, to the Managing Director of the company and to the non-employee Cruise Director dated whilst still on the buscruise would suffice as "all reasonable endeavours to negotiate with Us in good faith" ?
-
Under our Trades and Practices Act here I think you'll find that you have a case. Just another Queenslander's opinion.
To Ozjohno and Nana541
There is the 'Unfair Clause' component but only a Court can decide this.
It exists under the ACCC and also under NSW and Qld Fair Trading
Justice grinds along very slowly in the Sunshine State!
-
Not really.
They can put what they like in the contract terms but that doesn't mean they will stand up in court.
It all depends on local consumer law of course, but terms that allow a completely different holiday to be delivered without compensation are often considered 'unfair' and hence not enforceable.
Exactly my thoughts Mart_T, and one that requires further persuing!
The questions also arise if a "Trip" is equal to a "Cruise"
or if 'swapping ships' (READ as different non-moving hotels) means the same as '..substituting another vessel....', '...for all or part of the itinerary...'
-
Marty - what a trip & I cannot understand how you or some of your fellow pax managed to keep your hands off 'that woman's' throat. You know in six month's time you will still not be able to laugh about it! We will never be travelling with Scenic & I think after what you have reported they may not be around for much longer anyway.
Hi Evil Jock,
Thank you for the comment, it brought a sorely needed smile to my face! There were some other names give to 'that woman', but as this is a family forum 'nuff said!
-
It sounds like some posters here may have traveled on a traditional Scenic cruise, while others (perhaps the OP?) may have been on a charter. What is included on a charter cruise is often different from a standard one; for example, while on a standard Scenic cruise all drinks and tips are included in the fare this is not necessarily true for a charter cruise (even though it's the same boat, same crew, etc.).
Not a charter.
Evergreen Tours is a subsidiary of Scenic Tours, the (slightly) lower cost version. It does not include all the tours (optional) and does not include all drinks (except at dinner). They do not own the ships, but lease them from Luftner.
We wanted a River CRUISE, not side trips to lots of places, as that had been done before. What we (mistakenly perhaps) thought we booked was a 14 night/15 day CRUISE with only unpacking once.
What we received was most unethical but yet perhaps 'legal' according to the company. It is for a Court to decide if a "Cruise" is defined the same way as a "Trip" on a bus!
Interestingly, all information regarding river conditions were witheld from us, only untruths and 'false flags' were offered.
Even emails fom a prospective client -and I quote,
"My main concern would be that if flooding occurs and a boat cannot be used, can I have the option of transferring to a future departure?", was responded to by the company in an email and again I quote,
"You would have that option available under the circumstances if your itinerary was to be changed to coach touring."
Kind regards,
<name removed> Reservations Consultant
Scenic & Evergreen Tours | Level 2, 11 Brown St | Newcastle, NSW 2300 | Australia
xxxxx @scenictours.com
scenictours.com.au||evergreentours
WANTED! a LIVE posts from ANY Europe River Cruise on ANY Company
in River Cruising
Posted
As this thread is still active, anyone that was with Scenic Tours or Evergreen Tours during the 2013 floods and were basically ignored by the company after returning home, be advised that there will be a Class Action in Australia against this company in early 2014.
For more information regarding the abysmal performance of Scenic Tours during the floods in Europe, please message me directly to find out about the Class Action to be held against them.
It does NOT matter if you have actually received the offered pittance of the $500 refund, as it will cost you nothing to be included!