5 hours ago, June Bug said:

I hope they get to go.  I just saw a conversation with John Heald yesterday and in a conversation with a cruiser, was apologizing for staring only vaccinated cruisers were allowed now until August.  Such mixed messages. 

carnival.com click on health protocols, or here https://www.carnival.com/Legal/covid-19-legal-notices/covid-19-guest-protocols?icid=advisory_cruisehealth_052521 and then check the Return to Service FAQs tab.  There are definitely some unvaccinated exceptions.

Can anyone give a news link about the CDC vs Florida new CSO deadline extension?

Just gonna add that Horizon, like Vista and that class of ship has less pool/hot tub than the smaller ships like Magic.  At least the last time I was on Freedom... it was much easier to find a hot tub or space in a pool than on Vista.  Its a non-issue if you book Havana on the larger class ships as you get a private pool area that way.

To me it shows that resumption protocols are working and vaccines are the major factor.

There might be some contact tracing/testing and guests getting quarantined briefly though as per protocols when cases do pop up.  And rarely, some people could get quarantined in a port city hotel after the cruise and have to wait to fly home.

I'm no expert.  But seems like a stretch to get out there, hit 3 distant ports, then back within the constraints of a 7 day cruise.  I'd think the westerns from FL normally have a stop in G.C., Jamaica, or both for logistical/timing/resupply reasons.  But I am just making it up as I go, and drawing conclusions from the itinerary changes that have been made.

The article doesn't say their age at all, just under 16.  The vaccine is available in the US for 12+, but the article isn't specific enough about their age to know if they were eligible or not.  This cruise was 92% vaccinated 8% not.  This is a ship using Bahamian protocols, not the CDC's CSO.

10 minutes ago, asalligo said:

That is not going to stop the cases. We just have to understand that cases occur even in the vaccinated and as I have said before, it will not be long before a fully vaccinated cruiser dies from catching it on a cruise ship. The CDC says that 2% of breakthrough cases have been fatal. We just need to keep rolling on when that happens and not let it stop cruising this time. 

In these 2 cases on AotS, it was unvaccinated children.

This has more to do with Grand Cayman and Jamaica being closed to cruising.   If those + Cozumel were your itenerary and you were sailing from Florida, there's kinda no alternatives for the closed ports that'll still send you in the direction of Cozumel.   Roatan and Belize are too far out of the way for you.  If your cruise included one of those and you were sailing from Florida and to Eastern Caribben destinations, then they swap a closed port for an extra Bahamas port (Bimini).

Whereas if you were sailing from Texas, they easily swap the closed ports to Roatan and Belize.

Doesn't really make sense.  Why leave the link open for like 10 days for the August requests if they're just going to give them out first come/first served? July requests were kinda rushed and may have been more trainwrecky, with less/no info given, but August at least had an email with timeframes for the request link being open (until July 25) and when processing requests would begin (after July 25), and it sorta back-channeled the same info pertaining to July requests- link closed date (July 15) and processing begin date (after July 21).

They are going in order by sail date, first sail/first served.  Maybe that's the source of the confusion.  The actual factors involved with approval/denial are all speculation.  Carnival hasn't said anything officially AFAIK, aside from being dependent on oxygen and certain other medical needs that were normally allowed, are being denied during the restart.

Celebrity is doing like Royal with at least one ship sailing from Florida.  The Edge is doing a test cruise this weekend according to this-  https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/6232/

I'm not sure if Equinox is going to do one or not, still digging for info.

Disney Dream is also doing a test cruise but has yet to announce any plans about resuming service that aren't vague/September+.

After passing a test cruise, a ship is free to take more than 5% unvaccinated passengers, but unvaccinated/non-disclosed guests have to abide by stronger safety protocols onboard, and those who voluntarily submit proof of vaccinated status can be given more freedoms from these protocols and access to vaccinated-only areas/venues.

Deck 3, the main atrium.

1 hour ago, Earthworm Jim said:

 

I don't know how making the non-vaccinated wear wrist bands would work. They'll just take them off. Wrist bands can realistically only be used for something that gives the wearer extra privileges so they want to have them on. If wrist band wearers are penalized, they just won't wear them.

This info posted was backwards.  Vaccinated on RCI get a wristband.  Unvaccinated get a hole punched in their card.

1 hour ago, Cowboys4ever said:

I think something that is forgotten in all these discussions is also the ports.  I do not know if any of the ports are limiting capacity but if they are, then the cruise ships would have to keep that in mind when they are booking these ships.  

I think most of the foreign ports are small, aside from Cozumel.

Key West had port restrictions that were passed as a ballot initiative- i.e. direct democracy voted for by the people of Key West last November- basically 1 ship/1500 passengers debarking max.  But the Florida legislature added an amendment to a broader transportation bill this April and made port restrictions by ballot initiative illegal for all 15 FL ports.

Final payment was yesterday.  Unfilled group booking slots have probably just been released by travel agencies.

Prices are high.  I don't normally do summer cruises because more kids on the ship, and they cost more during the summer.  I'm used to doing 1300-1600 for a window room for western caribbean and 1600-1800 for the same for eastern caribbean.  Heck, April 2020 I had a 8 day eastern caribbean balcony for 1800.  I had to rebook it 4 times, and each time it went up in price a little and downgraded itinerary or room-  Now its a 7 day Western Caribbean cove balcony at $2200, and that switch to cove was limited/decent upgrade offer, because it had been just a window room at ~2125 before that.

* prices for 2 with gratuity and insurance

July 3rd is in many ways a test cruise, being the 1st cruise for Carnival from US waters since this mess started.  Uncertainty and vaccine requirements potentially blocking people with young kids aren't helping to fill those expensive rooms.

Happy hour @ Red Frog Pub.  1/2 price fishbowls.

Wife gets a Guy's burger.  I go for BBQ or Wok- the lines are usually short.

Old data shows us how the unique environment of a cruise ship is especially conducive to spreading a contagious disease, how sailing a day away from shore puts a limit on the medical care available to passengers and crew, and shows the complications that come with evacuating sick people to foreign countries.

New data shows us there's less to fear from this disease now.  We have vaccines, can rapidly test/diagnose it, and are used to using PPE and distancing to reduce spread.  Cruising that has resumed elsewhere in the world indicates masks and vaccines and testing and preparedness can make it reasonably safe. 

What I see here is a state, a federal health agency, and a tourism industry having political arguments about public health vs privacy(? I guess) vs guest experience/feasible business operations.

Cruise with masks, distancing, and testing.

Cruise with vaccines.

Cruise with a combination of the above.

These are the choices as indicated in the CSO and by how cruising is working elsewhere in the world.  Pick one.  As for the details and finer points like %'s.  That is going back to mediation and the CDC needs to make a new CSO with supported scientific data, and the whole process is subject to the potential for appeal to a higher court.  The only certainty is that things are going to keep changing rapidly.

To me it seems like cruisin is resuming with a reasonable 2 options under the CSO.  DeSantis threw a wrench in it, with the purpose of removing the CSO entirely.  That's not a good thing for.cruise.lines to gamble with at least for the frist few months.

9 minutes ago, SRQbeachgirl said:

 

Amtrak Vacation trains. A couple hundred people confined to a small space for 7 days, eating in the same dining cars, drinking in the lounge car, sleeping inches from each other in the Economy Class seats, getting on charter busses together to go on excursions...all without having to show proof of vaccinations or be tested. 

 

The biggest difference between a week-long Amtrak vacation and a cruise ship, besides the number of people, is that cruise ships have lots of outdoor spaces, private balconies, and large indoor spaces, where as on an Amtrak train you are sitting in a tiny enclosed space for hours and hours and hours with no outside venues.  

There aren't 3000-6000 people on any train.  A train trip across the US doesn't take a week.  The train doesn't stop in a foreign county with low vaccination availability to let its passengers off for half a day.  Masks are required on trains.

1 hour ago, TNcruising02 said:

This is a link to the executive order.  Some may think it is pandering and others believe it is anti-discrimination based on private health information.  Since there is no federal vaccine passport, each state gets to decide what is best for their residents. That is a good thing.  People who want more government control are free to live in the strictest states.  People who want less are free to live in states without strict restrictions.  Freedom to choose is a good thing.

https://www.flgov.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/EO-21-81.pdf

For those who think this is some kind of invasion on their privacy, how's it feel in an international airport trying to fly to a country that requires proof of the vaccine?  Florida's law is no protection from that.

You'd think a cruise port would be the same, but it isn't.

32 minutes ago, AnitaVacation said:

Again, missing the point.  I honestly am not concerned about my own safety, I am fully vaccinated and pretty confident with moving around feely, even among non vaxxed persons.  

 

The point is....I do not want my vacation interrupted or inconvenienced by an outbreak.  I do not want any restrictions on my cruise. 

 

Someone responded earlier regarding the RC cruise and positive cases.  So, those passengers were required to fully vaxxed, so even though 2 people tested positive and were quarantined, it did not effect the rest of the passengers.  Now, if passengers are not required to be vaxxed, and that happened, what do you think would happen next??  Have you ever been on a cruise ship with a norovirus outbreak, it's not fun.

 

ps...I have been outside, but I am also busy prepping Father's Day dinner and jumping over here between steps....

Contact tracing caused other passengers to be tested and quarantined to their rooms . while waiting for test results.  Its just a day.   Would you be happy getting tested and quarantining for a day?

If it was more widespread, the testing/quarantining could've been longer, or cruise might have ended.

7 minutes ago, Heartgrove said:

I wonder if anyone on this Carnival forum (or other forums of their preferred cruise line) looks at other cruise line forums to see what is going on in the outside world? I find it interesting that eight crew members testing positive, even though vaccinated, can cause four week long cruises from July 3-July 31 to be cancelled. Yet the comments on here don't even acknowledge anything like this.

Getting crewed up is proving difficult and they are vulnerable.   Lots of pre-pandemic crew aren't coming back.  So they're training new people.  They have to be quarantined and vaccinated and that takes time for effectiveness.  Meanwhile if there's 1000-2000 crew aboard, an operation-ending 1% outbreak threshhold is only 10-20.  8 positive cases is no joke.

1 minute ago, jules815 said:

 

We're sailing on MSC in October. They just released their protocols yesterday, which sound very much like RC. Vaccinated guests will be uploading a copy of their vaccination certificate, and required again to show it at the pier at check-in. They didn't say anything about a wristband or hole punch like RC has though. Been watching protocols on RC and Celebrity. 

 

Celebrity is sailing out of Caribbean ports?  They're vaccinated ships but not under the CSO, under Bahamian laws or whichever island nation they're sailing from.

RCI is planning to do it differently between its departure ports in Florida (unvaccinated) or anywhere else (vaccinated).

And if you follow that exception request link, you land on the request form page with this information:

COVID-19 VACCINATION EXEMPTION REQUEST FORM

Unless something has changed, Jiji's is upstairs from the buffets on Vista.  It is free during lunch including embarkation day.

Going by order is fraught with issues too.  I booked a cruise in January 2020 for April 2020.  It got cancelled by Carnival and I rebooked 4 times, most recently when the May 2021 cruises were cancelled in April 2021 and I rebooked to August 2021.  Do I have priority over someone who booked the same August 2021 cruise in March 2021?  Why not?  My cruise has been paid in full for longer and I've just had to shuffle it to different dates/ships.

COVID-19 VACCINATION EXEMPTION REQUEST FORM

16 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

There is no such evidence of this.  It would make the most sense then to give all exemption slots to adults.  Children aren't sources of revenue.  

Their cruise fare isn't free.  And if kids aren't exceptioned, the risk is their parents will cancel their booking instead of finding a family member to watch the kids for 3-8 days and do the vacation without the kids.  So that's most likely 2 adult fares plus the cheaper kids' fare(s) at risk.