calm down dear

I can assure you that if you are being transferred to a bus for a long all day excursion a tender would be far less faff. Agree zodiac for true expedition landings but not all ports are “expedition”. On submarine I think they are conscious of cost v what you will see and also the time, on our trip we “moved” location sometimes many times in the day to follow whales or out of wind or for a different perspective, you can’t do that with submarines deployed.

We did not embark or disembark by zodiac, we were docked. We were also docked in Punta Arenas. You are right tenders not used even though on a couple of occasions they would have been a better option for the reasons you mention.

Yes but I suppose my point was the E&O is not a separate venue, I do think the expedition ships need to rethink dining on these ships.

Well except Earth and Ocean is not a separate dining venue like the larger ships it is only ever one of the "theme" nights in Collonade so you can hardly plan - in 16 days it appeared twice and the menu is wildly random items, yes like you we enjoyed but we were with I would say less than 20 others each time. We spoke with the FB mgr and the Maitre D about how they need to adapt and not copy the bigger ships - they agreed and said they keep raising it.

Certainly - on our landings we had some walks to see a glacier or through woodland - these were not that arduous but some didn’t like the very rocky/pebbly/slippery “paths” - I would say no more than 3-4km round trips. Our zodiacs were all to get close to glaciers / fjord cliffs / inlets. We saw lots of birds and sea life.

Hi - you misunderstood we enjoyed it and booked another - I was merely pointing out some aspects. The weather was a bit atmospheric but in all honesty it was down to what you wore. The expedition leader was Dom and the expedition team were good - some were better speakers/presenters than others but all gave interesting talks. There were in general 2 or 3 lectures a day. The only “excursions” were in the two ports - Punta arenas and Puerto Montt - they were the “usual” Seabourn type a bus, sightseeing etc, all other days except sea days were 1 or 2 zodiac tours and landings. You were off ship about 2 or 3 hours each time. Hope that helps but happy to take questions.

I think the majority on board were new to expedition although not Seabourn and whilst the concept of zodiacs etc you can easily get your head around until you actually do it you realise quite a lot of faffing around getting kitted up (parkas, waterproof trousers and life jacket quite bulky), big boots, stairs etc and the getting on/off did require a degree of confidence - its not like getting on a tender. You go to the landing platform which is virtually level with the water, a zodiac comes alongside, you step up onto a small wooden box, you step one foot across onto the side tube of the rubber zodiac which is a bit bouncy/slippery and then immediately one foot down into the craft, you must immediately sit and scoot down the side of the craft. Once underway you need to lean in and hold a piece of rope - it is bouncy (and fun!) but yes when pouring with rain (as it often was) some didn't like - I think because some didnt have good gloves or warm undergarments - the side of the zodiacs you sit on are chilly and bear in mind some zodiacs are 90mins or more. There absolutely were people who thought there would be other stuff to do.

I do think there are many who dont realise the ship is much smaller and that, for example, the CD isn't front and centre and the things to do are all talks and the evening act is well not much. I think some didnt enjoy that zodiac getting on/off did require some confidence and could be wet/windy and some didnt enjoy that but there were no other options. Whilst there is a small pool area, the weather not conducive. The lounges though were good.

We would say food is *exactly* the same as the larger ships including menus and execution - which was generally passable and sometimes very good. The weather was not conducive for outside dining so that area was not open. Our view is that on this ship the colllonade needs to be a more popular venue as the main restaurant has limited capacity - that's not to say some of the themes eg Thai had terrible food, on the contrary it was good but there was hardly anyone there. Your point on tours / ports is a potential issue - they do emphasise that they sort of make it up on the day which to be fair was often because swell or wind made zodiacs problematic so ship would move to somewhere more sheltered etc. Even on more major ports the timings of arrival and departure were changed night before but there were a couple of days where there were some excursion choices.

I think that is right - our two cabin stewards had 18 to look after which they said was more than the other ships. Bearing in mind 6 of these they had were the largest on board - our room was often not serviced until around 1pm. They reported living conditions for them as "much better" what they didnt like at all was extremely limited ability to get off the ship at all. Antarctica they said was great once, not 8 times. The bar service was simply a function of not knowing where the guests would go to but do think understaffed but to counter they did move people and also resorted to trays of pre-made cocktails as a sort of theme which were often good but if you wanted something else well, you waited.

Just back from 2 weeks in Chile. We have many Seabourn (and Silversea) cruises but this was our first expedition cruise and overall we really enjoyed it and booked another. The ship seemed spacious and the staff and expedition crew really engaging with a wide variety of talks. This being cruise critic I can venture some critical points, but as I said we have booked again, lets start : Food - there are 2 venues , the restaurant and colonnade - they are in essence exactly the same menus as the "normal ships" with the exception that instead of the odd Keller night in colonnade you get a short "earth and ocean" night. This is a great mistake as many of the colonnade themed nights were poor and literally the place was empty, this was no good as the restaurant isn't designed for so many. Many evenings staff were switched to try and meet demand. The issue is copying the normal collonade menu eg "olde England" isn't appetising and the classics so tired (have they changed in 10years ? do they have a glut of chocolate pots?). The earth ocean nights also were such random offerings that didnt work. The restaurant has close tables and very few near a window it also only opened at 7 and had a huge queue. It closes at 9 and we like to dine at 8 - we often had to wait and only once got a "good" table. The pre-dinner drinks could be had in 3 different bars but it always seemed a bit of a zoo 630 to 730 and I would say staffing levels seem to be lower, sushi in club was a nice touch but it often took ages and quality perhaps so-so. My usual annoyance you had to specify fever tree tonic and san pelligrino constantly (and they never save Damian in explorer) remembered and it seemed always to be stored "out the back". Many times had the "normal water" the taste was poor and sparkling barely so. The food in the restaurant was no different to normal Seabourn, always passable and some very good dishes, service at times haphazard and do think if they opened a little earlier it would smooth out the service (and of course have colonnade with better food.) I had always wondered whether people in the top suites were treated any differently. I can say with certainty the answer is no (which is good!). We were offered 3 days before boarding a very attractive price to take the owners suite at the front. It was nice but balcony unusable in the wind and they tied up all the furniture for the entirety which was annoying and we were not allowed our curtains to be open at night "bridge says it distracts them!" - on occasion I forgot and opened them at 1030pm and in 15 mins we had a knock at the door and our poor steward hurried in ! Only once did we get a nice table in the restaurant, we did notice some seemed to be always in a certain place but we assumed they were in the queue at 7pm sharp ! The entertainment on board was ok and everynight at 930 in the discovery centre there was always an act. We had Aimee as CD - she was with us on the transatlantic in autumn so knew us, she said on expedition she is very much ships publisher but also sings 1 or 2 times a week - all the usual announcements (eg "reminder trivia today is at 3pm in club with Aimee and at 4pm Merel will be in discovery centre talking about seals") were all done by expedition team not Aimee. What did we hear people complaining about ?- not much in the shop, not much in the way of "entertainment", some couldn't get their heads round the zodiac excursions and timings were more a guide than a guarantee (oh but I have a 430pm massage I thought we'd be back by now, can we go back?), lack of "shopping" ashore. A few less mobile didnt realise every ashore trip was on Zodiac and yes it wasn't the same as a normal tender. Happy to take questions - oh and very casual dress code - most in evening wore sweaters, lots of jeans, no one scruffy all very nice and informal.

We were on the Pursuit last month in Chile and no submarine offered. Upon enquiry (at a great tour of the submarine garage) the driver(?) of the vehicle was very clear that they do not want to offer the sub when they believe visability will be poor - we were in glacial run off water and it was indeed very milky - he said the same with amazon, many areas not worth it and they were very conscious that it was a £££ expense for guests and they only want to do it if you can see !

thanks - who'd of thought your own wine made the qpr ! Reisling is greatly under rated and that cuvee is brilliant.

Ok that's is an interesting idea. Seems like need to ask.

Thanks for that, your handwriting better than mine ! I am pleased there are indeed some pricing value points. I will look at this.

that's interesting, I saw on the source the wine recommendation in the restaurant tonight and the 2 listed were nearly 3x retail for uk.

I cant seem to find details of this package anymore - I vaguely recall it was a (short) list you choose from but it is now just a discount off any wines (that is also combinable with any discount you get from being a loyal customer)

Thankyou both for the information.

I have an upcoming cruise on Ovation and have the benefit of quite a few hundred dollars in OBC. I like wine - but think many here more qualified who might be able to tell me where they think the best value lays on the revenue wine list ? I think someone once did a post but I cant find it anywhere and maybe it was Silversea.

Yes I recall there was one at 699 and another 499 but we did not partake.

I’m in 603 next year and would love to know as well !

Well we thought it was much better having 4 casual, 2 informal and 1 “formal optional”, who wants to be on holiday where people “enforce”, it would be the quickest way to lose revenue, my view so long as people are tidily presented that’s all that matters. No one cares if people want to dress up to the nines with blingy jewellery - the ship is plenty big enough. To be clear though I recognise some people want to enforce a strict code - so I agree let them one night per week in Atlantide and say the Observation bar and the rest of us will enjoy our holiday in other venues. I never saw anyone dressed inappropriately in any venue - I’d say plenty more about people who took tumblers of ice to put in their wine , this alarmed me more than the lack of a jacket !

Here on Dawn there was plenty of options for pre-dinner drinks. The observation bar had good views but was more a lounge and got crowded and no music. The panorama lounge had full bar, seats inside and out and music, it was a good space. The dolce vita was a cavernous space - more like Seabourn square but many had drinks there plus there was live music. The salt bar was much more atmospheric. The arts cafe also had a bar. In short more choice on SS but the SB observation bar much better overall - as salt bar lacked any views and only seated 16.

For those who care, I have just completed a trip on SS Dawn comparing to our October trip on SB Encore on the SS board. In short - we like both lines but would not pay a premium for SS for same itinerary. The lessons for SB to me are - improve the wine, open more venues to spread out the passengers, the breakfast and lunch environment on SS were so much better than SB - food much the same but ambiance matters. I think SB very poor on wine constant upsell that was wholly absent on SS.

Final reflections. As previously mentioned we have sailed 50 nights plus on each of Silversea, Seabourn and Crystal. Our last Silversea cruise was December 2018 on Muse and our last Seabourn was October 2022 on Encore. I think for us itinerary and price are the determinants - in that we would not overpay for either for similar itinerary. I am not sure there is too much difference between SB and SS, and what differences I have noticed between our two most recent cruises may well be destination or even ship specific. So let’s start the comparison: cabin, we had classic veranda next door to a deluxe verandah on deck 6 - we see very little point paying extra and I need would avoid cabins under pool or close to lifts. Our cabin very similar to SB and both equally nicely appointed and serviced. I think the “butler” isn’t a value add for us, everyone has one and we are not those who want drinks served in our room etc. Our cabin attendant was more friendly and did what we needed. Food/drink : I accept is wholly subjective. On SS we didn’t have a bad meal and applaud the variety and more intimate venues. Salt kitchen was really interesting as a venue. The salt bar was hands down best bar, like a 5 star london hotel bar, intimate and with creative cocktails. La dame was not worth the upcharge over the “main” dining room of Atlantide food wise but it was a nice space. The Italian la terraza was an excellent Italian. Atlantide was good food but I found the space a bit dark and cramped. Kaiseki was a major disappointment - absolutely not worth the upcharge at night and lunch was poor. The grill on the pool deck was great and so was the pizza place for an informal meal. We did not do Silver note but many raved. What was also noteworthy was the variety over SB and that this spread the passengers out - especially at breakfast and lunch which had much more choice than SB. Bar snacks and canapés miles better on SS eg cashews, hot vol-au-vents, premium crisps. The included wine on SS was very good, happily poured and a good variety, many times the bottle was left on the table. The difference to SB was noticeable and I think the key was SS sourced some interesting varietals from interesting regions instead of very poor wine from “more famous” areas eg SS had a Portuguese Douro white, a German Pinot Gris, a rose from pays d’oc. These were not “expensive” wines but ones that were true to their regions. There was zero upsell to premium wine list, not once offered unlike at SB where I found the wines poor and thin. SS had good spirits eg gin mare and fevertree tonic, the water was better on SS too, whilst getting San Pelligrino was a similar chore to SB, the “included” water didn’t have the same off putting smell as we had on SB. Coffee and snacks with Seabourn Square was much better than SS. Entertainment - we don’t partake at all aside from lectures and here SB much better. There did not seem much happening on SS - which suited us. The spa area on Silver Dawn was excellent, comfortable loungers, good sauna and stream plus on tap drinks and snacks. Much better than SB. What didn’t we like : excursions - on SS the fare is inflated to “include” excursions - it’s an inclusion we do not appreciate or value and I don’t want to be on a tour with 30-40 others that seems rushed to ensure back on board for lunch plus stopping for snacks. I understand some like the idea of mass tours so they don’t have to think or do any planning but it seriously puts us off and we skipped half the days and others we abandoned half way through to do our own stuff - much to the incredulity of the others. This is perhaps the real rub, SS tends to us to be more expensive than SB primarily driven by excursions perhaps which we do not value. Service - we found SS willing but at times disorganised, many seemed in training but all were friendly and we would say on a par with SB. So the judgement: for the same cruise at the same price we would choose SS, this though unlikely given SS charging structures and inclusions but if SB £500 less would choose SB. My hope is that SB upgrade the wine offering and open more venues at breakfast and lunch. SB better at sushi, better at coffee/lounges, we think Keller menus excellent. All in all long may it continue that SS and SB compete and we are happy on either line. Our next cruise is SB in November and SS in 2024.