BP99

46 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

The desired endpoint of course in a perfect world is 100% protection from infection.  But there is some serious talk about a benchmark of 50% infection protection to get approval.  I included a link below with a clinical endpoint discussion of vaccine efficacy and approval.  It is possible IMO that future SARS-CoV-2 vaccine candidates will be correlated with immune responses (initially a secondary endpoint in the first large trials) and if that is a strong correlation to protection then the trials would be much easier to run and evaluate.  All of the current speed and high risk is worth it but skipping the usual steps might come back to bite us in some cases.

 

https://www.clinicaltrialsarena.com/comment/covid-19-vaccine-efficacy-approval/

Hi,

I agree with your final comment. The two major front runners (who get the most

press- Moderna, Oxford/AZ) are using vaccine methods that have NEVER been previously approved by the FDA. Their initial results are very promising and

I hope it works.

19 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Covid 19 is a mutating RNA virus EXACTLY like the flu. 
A Covid 19 vaccine will NOT act like a measles, smallpox, or polio vaccine. 
There are already 14 identified mutations of Covid 19 that the current vaccines are being tested against; next year there could quite possibly be more. 
A Covid 19 vaccine, if successful, would function the same as the current flu vaccine. It would be a different cocktail every year based on research of mutation trends, and a scientific postulation of what the next strains will be. 

Hi,

Some "Friendly" comments.

All viruses mutate. The mutation rate is a bit lower in coronaviruses

than flu. RNA viruses make errors because of poor proofreading of

their enzymes that are involved in replication (a million times higher

than us).

However MANY vaccines used for humans are for RNA viruses. Many

are for children! There have been very few vaccine-escape mutants.

They can introduce new strains if this is a concern (easy to do).

Of the mutants you discussed only one is in the spike protein.  

This is the protein they are targeting in most covid 19 vaccines

(unless they use the whole virus). If the spike protein mutates too

much it will NOT bind to the host cells (us) and will NOT be able

to replicate and will NOT be transmitted to others. Interestingly,

the Chinese have a whole virus (killed) vaccine. Their vaccine

induces antibodies that recognize all 5 of the world wide strains.

Also, antibodies are HUGE proteins compared to the spike protein. Any 

antibodies against any portion of the spike protein would likely

block entry into human cells and would also clear the virus.

There are several news articles that discuss covid 19 mutations

Google: COVID-19 Will Mutate — What That Means for a Vaccine 

6 hours ago, DHADEN said:

The "Flu Vaccine" is not a real Vaccine.  It is more like a "Flu Preventative". (that's what they should call it instead of misusing "vaccine").

The Polio Vaccine keeps you from EVER getting the polio - that's what a real vaccine is.  Hopefully the Covid-19 Vaccine will do the same.

Hi,

Where did you read "The "Flu Vaccine" is not a real Vaccine"?

All vaccines prevent the disease within some time period.

What you are mentioning is "Vaccine durability" or how long 

do they last. Yes, some last your lifetime, some need a booster 

after 10 years and some only last for a few months to a year (flu). But 

they are all preventable. Yes, you are correct that the flu vaccine

doesn't last forever but that is due to many factors. But yes, if you

get the correct strain of flu vaccine it WILL prevent you get the FLU

and it is a vaccine. Interestingly, even if you get the wrong strain 

(usually a mixture of 3 strains) there is a degree of crossreactivity

and you will be partially immune to some strains (you get the flu

but your not as sick).

33 minutes ago, markeb said:

 

Thanks. I can't keep them straight anymore, and probably knew that at one point!

 

Also probably not as easy as making grams of recombinant protein. But it could be.

 

I guess that's my other caution as the two lead vaccine candidates right now use novel approaches. I know the FDA has never approved an mRNA vaccine, and I'm blanking right now on an approved adenovirus vectored vaccine as well (do you know if there is one?). Both methods have been used a lot in vaccine research, but the US FDA is nothing if not risk adverse!

Hi,

There has never been an approved adenovirus vaccine for humans.

There is a rabies vaccine for animals that is adenovirus based and

approved. It is easier to get approval for animal vaccines than humans. 

However 3 major groups are trying them for covid-19. They have

problems that adenoviruses are a member of the cold virus group (as are coronaviruses) and many humans have antibodies to them. Booster shots

(if needed) may be problematic. 

48 minutes ago, markeb said:

Having thought about this a little more, with just a little cynicism involved, going forward with production is probably a genius move.

 

1) They need production quality material for the Phase III trial.

2) They have to demonstrate a consistent production method at scale for licensure.

3) If they essentially go straight to scale, they've already accounted for risk to scale up.

4) I'm betting they've settled on a very large production process in the first place, so 2B doses (of the actual protein, not vialed product) may not be much material at all. So it sounds really good that they're driving forward and risking manufacturing material that fails, but they have to do that anyway.

 

Likely as not great PR for doing something they more or less have to do. It's possible they're doing modular production where scale is just add more modules, but it's equally likely they (and others) are doing gram-level or higher (kilogram?) production runs, and need micrograms or less of purified protein per vaccine dose. You could get to 2B doses from your consistency runs if you're really scaling at that level!

 

(For those who've never been around this, I once encountered a vaccine program where the production method produced twice the demand per production run. If you get lucky, or the university you partnered with got really lucky, you can end up with a lot of material to purify, assay, and vial...)

 

 

Hi,

A "friendly" correction. They use whole adenovirus particles (expressing the 

covid 19 spike protein). They grow it in a mammalian cell line and then purify

the virus particles. They inject the purified virus particles into the muscle of

animals/humans. It will NOT replicate in humans. They plan to scale up

growth in 1000 litre cultures. Not as easy as growing influenza in chicken eggs. 

Very preliminary data in monkeys is encouraging BUT not great.

Antibody levels are not high in all animals. Likely need a booster.

Some monkeys had a partial response.

The BIGGEST result was the positive affect on the lungs.

May not be a GREAT vaccine but if it is a partial response

(which it is) it MAYBE? good enough to eliminate DEATH in

humans (monkeys don't die from this virus). 

Do a google: Oxford covid vaccine Forbes etc. for more details.

I'm waiting to see how well humans respond (titres, cell mediated 

immunity etc). A vaccine will work but which one is BEST is

still to be determined. 

9 hours ago, Ferry_Watcher said:

We had requested a refund for our cancelled May 21, 2020 Alaska cruise, but received  a FCC instead.  At the time we thought that maybe celebrity was sending (via email) the FCC in hopes of passengers opting for the credit rather than the refund.

 

Here is our timeline:

March 24 - Celebrity cancelled Alaska cruise scheduled for May 21

March 25 - we request a Cruise refund

May 2 - we receive a Future Cruise Credit via email (the FCC is also on our Celebrity Capetian's account page)

May 9 - Celebrity refunds Excursion ($1K)

May 23 - Celebrity refunds $364 Taxes, Fees & Port Expenses

 

Question: did Celebrity send a FCC to others who requested a refund, or did they just make a mistake with us?  Anyone else experience this?

I know that the refunds are coming in groupings, so I haven't called them yet to ask if we are in the pipeline for our refund, or if a mistake/error was made along the way.

Just asking fellow CC members if anyone else is in the same situation.

Thanks!

 

 

Yes, the EXACT same thing happened to me.

Almost all who filled out the online form got FCC instead of the

100% refund you requested. The reason why they did not acknowledge

your online form (they said they would!) was to avoid a paper trail

for the trick/scam they were doing for most who requested a 100%

refund. You will be rewarded/punished by waiting LONGER to

get your May 21 cruise refund. After complaining many are recently getting

refunds for late March early April cruises. After 75 days and MANY calls,

emails etc I finally got my refund. Nowhere close to the 30 days they 

said on the email. This policy of substituting FCC instead of the

refund you requested is a dishonest/slimy business practise!! 

5 hours ago, Sam.Seattle said:

And I continue to be amazed!!!!  My April 12th cruise was cancelled and I am still waiting for over $4,700 to be retuned to me.

Hi,

Don't be too "amazed". I am still waiting for an April 5 cruise. But it's "only" been

74 days since I applied for a refund! I'm waiting for it and the following (B2B) and

have $10K invested. After 2 months they did the trick (which happened to many) and

gave me FCC instead of a refund. After several (many) complaints to my TA and 

Celebrity they decided to change it to a refund but my reward would be waiting

longer. I think you are punished if you complain and go to the bottom of the pile.

2 hours ago, onyourmark said:

Cruise date May 11 on Solstice Hawaii to Vancouver.  Celebrity cancelled in the second announcement of suspensions and we selected full credit vie email link on March 24.  I made a screen shot of the instant confirmation, but didn't get any subsequent email for that.

After a few weeks they still sent FCC.  My emails to have this corrected were ignored.  Finally called Captain Club on May 15, and she had someone from Accounting call me back and got FCC changed to a Refund. She said it should be another week or less.

Full refund finally appeared on the credit card, dated May 19 and posted May 21.  It is in 4 amounts showing the initial deposit, taxes, interim and final payment.  The details show Celebrity, Paris France.  (I suppose that's where they consolidate their international credit card processing.)

 

  

Hi,

You are very lucky!! Many (like you and me) asked for a refund BUT got FCC

after waiting close to 2 months (applied March 15). They are doing this trick

to prevent giving cash refunds. I also complained to Celebrity (twice) and 

my TA (twice). They said they would change it. Sill waiting 2 weeks. It could

also be a bit more complicated because it was 2 cruises (B2B) and would

require them to refund more cash then they would like.

18 hours ago, helen haywood said:

Today I see credits for our April 5th sailing that Celebrity notified me they cancelled on March 13.  I used the link in the email and requested a refund on March 14.  I had booked via a travel agent; I did not involve them in the refund request.  That balance is exactly what was due.  However, for a March 29 cruise Celebrity cancelled on March 13 that I requested a refund for on March 16....for that one I received several credits on April 29 but they were $148.68 short.  After a couple of weeks I called Celebrity and they told me they could not discuss the refund with me as I booked via a travel agent.  I sent my TA an email today and hopefully that will be resolved too.  

 

So much for the theory that they only process refunds on Wednesdays and Sundays.

Hi,

I think? I booked the same cruise as you (Silhouette April 5th).

I did EXACTLY what you did. Applied for 100% refund, online form that was emailed

to me, did not use my TA etc.

This week after 56 days the sent me FCC NOT a refund!

You were very fortunate and one of the few LUCKY ones.

Most who filled out the online form got FCC.

As I mentioned earlier, I think the refund department get bonuses

if the screw up and delay giving refunds!! (I have my tinfoil hat on)

Yes, I now contacted my TA and have be rewarded by waiting longer!

On 5/15/2020 at 12:44 AM, az_tchr said:

Should be able to do through your TA - I did - or via an email or online to Celebrity.  My refund request ended up being a FCC as well.  My TA fixed it quickly.

Hi,

Thanks for your post. 

You said "My TA fixed it quickly". Does that mean you got a refund quickly?

My TA also fixed it quickly BUT I am being punished with waiting again.

I see many are now getting refunds for much later cruises. But...

Again, are they doing ANYTHING to stall some payments? I'm waiting

for $10K? Do they get rewarded (bonuses) for errors and making people wait?

I hate to be sceptical but many are being subjected to their errors.

1 hour ago, barb-ottawa said:

It's good to see that some people are seeing the refunds on their credit cards. I understand completely that it is going to take some time to clear all the accounts. But I find it frustrating to hear that people whose cruises were in April and May are getting their refunds and I have yet to see anything from my March 23rd cruise. What possible criteria are they using to issue refunds if not by date?

Hi,

It could be that they did not process it as a refund. I was waiting 55 days for

a refund and was wondering the same thing (why are others getting money

for latter cruises). Well, this week the sent me a FCC certificate, NOT a refund

that I requested. They have done this TRICK to MANY!! I think? they are taking

their time (at least longer) for FCC.

Contact them (or your TA) by email or phone to make sure before you wait LONGER!

The Canadian Pension Plan (CPP) invested 1 Billion into RCL last year.

Lost about $750 million so far. Luckily for Pensioners that was only

a small portion of our fund. CPP is somewhat like Social Security in USA.

We pay into it when we work but it's definitely not enough to survive on 

if it's you only source of money.

22 minutes ago, tiggy85 said:

Still waiting...

 

I cancelled our cruise on March 23rd and was told the refund would take 7-10 days. Nothing.
 

I called back April 6th and was told it actually takes 14 days. Nothing.

 

I called back April 21st and was told it actually takes 30 calendar days and I should see the refund within the week. Nothing.

 

I called back May 6th and was told that my booking was sent for an automatic refund on 3/24 BUT the system was overloaded and it just kinda of “sat there”. Apparently when I called on 4/21 the agent realized it was sitting there (Didn’t tell me anything) and “manually pushed it through to the accounting department”.
 

My new estimated refund date is May 22nd. If I don’t have my refund by then I will contact my bank and see if they can make any progress. It’s not a whole lot of money but it’s my money and I’d like to be done with all the follow up calls and account monitoring. 
 

For reference, I was supposed to be on the April 25th Summit cruise out of San Juan.

Hi,

Your story sounds similar to most of us. Many are still waiting for refunds

for March cruises (when Celebrity started cancelling). I was waiting for

a refund for a April 5 cruise (filed on March 14). A few days ago they sent

me a FCC certificate NOT a refund. So, after 2 months I have t start

the wait again!! In your phone calls did you specify a REFUND? 

I think they use REFUND and FCC interchangeably!! 

I filled out the 100% refund online on March 15th.

Yesterday (after 55 days) they sent me an email giving me FCC

instead of a REFUND.

I have seen them do this trick with others on these boards.

They will do ANYTHING to prevent you from get your money

back!!

Now do I have to wait hours on the phone to months to FIX this??

Got an email from Celebrity today.

Instead of 100% cash refund they gave me FCC.

It was for an April 5th cruise that was cancelled by them.

I applied online for a 100% refund on March 14.

After >55 days waiting I get FCC instead of a refund.

I have read on these boards that they have done this

trick to others.

After I complain, do I have wait another 2 months???

I think they will do anything possible to avoid giving refunds.

I'm UPSET!!!!

1 hour ago, zekekelso said:

Just me, but I really hate that name. 

If they keep holding up our money they could

call it "Refund of the Seas".

7 minutes ago, WrittenOnYourHeart said:

 

I never said they should not refund the money.

Sorry. From your opening statement, I wasn't sure what you meant.

You were quoting and thinking about what others have posted but

I misinterpreted where you stand.

5 minutes ago, WrittenOnYourHeart said:

 

Yes, I haven't said it, but all of these posts made me think of the people on here who are always saying "If you're having to budget that closely you shouldn't be cruising." and lecturing about having enough savings in case of emergency.

 

And I'm pretty sure that some who have done the chastising previously are among those freaking out that they haven't gotten their money back yet.

Yes, most of us that can afford 3-5 cruises a year will still survive if we never see

our money again. HOWEVER, I worked long and hard for most of my life and for many

years saved for being able to enjoy my retirement. I still can't throw my money away!

Also supporting Billion dollar companies with a donation is not my idea of fun!

8 hours ago, heakja said:

Same here. For my cancelled May 1 cruise I have gotten two odd amounts refunded to the creditcard used for the deposit. Still nothing on the card used for final payment. Should.I expect the rest to pop up the next weeks? My TA is less helpsome and Celebrity points to him.   

Hi.

I would be extremely happy to get odd amounts!! I like most have NO amounts.

Waiting for refunds for April 5 and april 17 cruise.

Many are still waiting for mid March cruises. Is there any order to refunds?

1 hour ago, hcat said:

Not much goodwill in the  world of X...sorry to say!. Refunds have been very slow coming,..and no mercy shown  for those who goofed in their timing or strategy,

 

We took the Cruise With Confidence deal....50% refund and 50% future cruise credit. This was okay for us at the time b/c we had several  booked future X cruises  for which we believed we could apply the credit.   We accepted the deal  BEFORE  they implemented the " Fit to Cruise" requirement  which would have effectively banned us.   Although the note is no longer required, we are unsure if folks with certain conditions  like diabetes will be accepted to sail once cruises start again. ...So our fcc may be worthless  because we have no idea how they will determine who can cruise.  We hope we can use our fcc for our one remaining X booking. Not booking any more til we know the rules

 

I recently  read on CC that  final payments  ( some quite large) must be paid for cruises that are likely to be cancelled.  Then X cancels after final payment date, and  folks must  wait for refunds of very large amounts.  Seems a bit cagey!

Not quite goodwill!

I AGREE!

That's why WE cancelled three September cruises. We are still waiting for refunds for

two April cruises (April 5 and 17) for > 50 days. Latest posts indicate that Celebrity

needs 80 days (not 30 like they said) to refund. By making final payment for

our three September cruises (even though there is an excellent chance they may

never sail- one from Vancouver) would be a HUGE gamble of never seeing

our big money again. Yes, many say they have a lot of funds BUT they have

lots if expenses. If they can't refund NOW on time what will it look like in September?

Still waiting for a 100% refund for April 5 and April 17 Silhouette cruises (B2B).

After waiting more that 50 days, I contacted Celebrity by email for information

on the delay.

They responded that it would take 2 weeks to RESPOND to my email.

4 minutes ago, Tangiera said:

Our April 5 Silhouette cruise was cancelled by Celebrity on March 14. I filled out the on-line form that day, requesting a full refund. Unfortunately, their system does not send any sort of confirmation. On March 30, I received an email stating that we would be receiving FCC for a fraction of the amount. After a few attempts at calling, I reached a very nice CSR who corrected the error. It seems some computer geek tried to help with the huge volume by running a program to make mass changes in their system, resulting in mass errors in many folks' accounts. That sure didn't help the call volume that ensued. I requested and received an email confirmation on April 1 that a credit would be processed, please allow 30 BUSINESS days. A former employer of mine used the 30 "business day" payment term, which usually equates to 45 days. I am guessing that the computer error above reset the clock on my refund by two weeks. It's now past the 30 calendar-type days from April 1, but longer since the initial refund request was made. I did receive a credit for around $262 a week ago, which I assume was for port taxes and fees. Hopefully, the somewhat larger amount of the cruise itself will follow.

Hi,

Sorry to hear this.

However, it is one of the most creative excuses I've read on these boards

over the last few weeks. They must be thinking really hard on how to 

tell customers that they are stalling to release refunds. A billion dollar

company hires a computer geek! Yea really?

1 minute ago, WrittenOnYourHeart said:

 

Any type of refund I have ever had with any type of business or service the amount of time stated to receive the refund has been in BUSINESS days. That is not new and should not be a surprise.

However, they are open 24/7 for bookings. They also charge your credit card 24/7.

Yes it's not a surprise, BUT many (like me) are at day 35 (Business) and at

49 days (calendar). The MAJOR reason is stalling due to lack of funds.

40 minutes ago, eaflorida said:

On March 23rd, Royal canceled my Vision of the Seas transatlantic. On March 24th, I filled out the online request for electing to receive a cash refund. Today is May 2nd, and still no refund of my cruise fare. I am frustrated, but what can you do? Hopefully it shows up soon. Its been 40 days so far. 

 

 

Hi,

As far as i can tell from reading the boards, MOST Royal/Celebrity/Azamara cruisers 

are still waiting. I'm at day 49. I've only seen a few people from Mid March getting

refunds. Some still waiting for late March sailings. No where close to the 30 days

(or they meant 30 business days) that they said. They are stalling big time.

They are sending me email ads each day to book a cruise. They need people

to book so they can refund some of us. My MAJOR hope is to get refunded

before they go bankrupt. Their excuses for stalling are quite interesting.