gcgold

In the UK, there is a recognized complaints procedure. Similarly, here in the US, it would be difficult to get a court to take up a law suite until the arbitration process required by the cruise contract is complete. Complaint procedures in the UK and US arbitration procedures are probably different but in neither case can one just 'file a lawsuit'.

 

I would not consider it to be presumptions to tell someone to read their contract. Every one should read and understand the contract prior to placing a deposit. Telling someone to read the contract prior to filing a law suit is good advice regardless of the country of origin. Very difficult to go to court unless one is sure of what they have agreed to and to what they are entitled.

perhaps the Contract itself isn't that important. Who would have thought that a norovirus outbreak on a ship could result in compensation for curtailment ! http://m.travelweekly.co.uk/Article.aspx?cat=news&id=54387.

The other threads about changing Caribbean itineraries after non-refundable deposits paid could be buzzing now [emoji41]

Perhaps the (much) bigger risk is if the news media or shows like 60 minutes or its equivalent start to focus on any of the unilateral decisions made by cruise companies...not necessarily limited to celebrity perhaps. No contract involved....just accurate reporting. That's also the consumer advocate getting involved issue. Lawyers never think of that potential problem...and consumers do turn to those folks if they feel something is questionable.

 

There are different situations, of course, but the risk is that someone, someone's brother or child is a producer for a "consumer advocate" show...or a newspaper with an investigative reporter....and they feel slighted, cheated, etc.

 

I'm not trying to prolong this discussion, but those who cling to "celebrity can do anything they want at any time" with impunity should think about the larger picture....the social media, media in general which are far more damaging (and helpful) with no legal or arbitration costs.

 

The net is that companies should try to do the right thing because reputation and public opinion are not regulatable the way contracts are

.

indeed.

One thing said here I would have a slight issue with is the remark about lawyers. Lawyers that I know (and know very, very well ) would always advocate using all procedures and avenues of complaint before litigation. In the event , unlikely as a norm, that it ends up in a Court of Law then demonstrating that one has exhausted all reasonable avenues open to them puts the complainant in a strong position. If the poster was referring to the lawyers acting for the cruise line then perhaps that could be the case , but I would be surprised.

So sorry you find the exchanges here between you and your "American friends" a tad tedious. Why continue this dialogue?

 

I am quite aware of, and familiar with, the consumer protection laws regarding travel and tourism for citizens of the UK. We have a saying here, "Put your money where your mouth is". Don't waste your time engaging in a smear campaign through the Media, go ahead and sue if you believe X is cheating you out of a daily meal.

 

Clearly your knowledge of our system is somewhat flawed . " Go ahead and sue" sums it up succinctly. This would be an action of last resort in the UK .

we are not talking about missing one meal . The discussion was about whether the statements made by Celebrity regarding the 'Suite Class ' offerings are in fact being delivered or not. The discussions then widened as to whether or not passengers could do anything about it. You think we cannot do anything , I know I can .

I will be boarding next week optimistic that the overall cruise will be excellent as usual. I am fully expecting that the offering in 'Suite Class' will be as described. should it not be then I am confident that CelX and myself will be able to resolve things amicably.

I guess the only solution is to file a lawsuit over lunch....or the lack of it. Then again, one might find that the folks that run the ship know what they're doing and are not trying to antagonize the customer.

 

Try it and then decide how you feel about it. That's usually the best idea.

I am not familiar with 'file a lawsuit', but I believe it to mean instigate legal proceedings ?

In the UK there is a recognised complaints procedure to be followed. Instigating legal proceedings would be after all other avenues have failed. Knowing one's legal rights usually helps on expediting the complaints without resorting to the Courts.

There is no mileage in trying to advise cruisers upon complaints procedures if they are from a country with radically different consumer protection system. I wouldn't presume to suggest to someone in , say, North America that they should read their contract 'carefully'.

Common sense, how refreshing.

In the US possibly / probably correct. cannot really comment as legislation in that jurisdiction is not within my experience.

Over here things are not that straightforward. If a UK customer can demonstrate they booked a suite based upon the Celebrity promotional statements and it turns out that the statements were demonstrably incorrect then they would have a very strong case.

The point about lunch not being served is valid , but if a customer can show that this is common practice and the 'Suite class' is not as described then the cruise line is in a troubled position. Also agree that the costs of taking action MIGHT be restrictive. However if a passenger can mount their own case then its a whole different scenario. A cruise line may take a different standpoint to a complaint from a passenger with the letters ' QC ' after his/her name than one without - as an example.

There are many other avenues for complaints to be pursued. The Daily Telegraph is excellent at 'persuading' travel companies to reverse decisions regarding customer complaints.

One should not get too "comfortable" with the absoluteness of the language in the contract of passage. For one thing, many, if not most, don't even get it until they get their cruise documents. Addtionally, contracts that are completely one sided tend to be dismissed by the courts when a company goes too far....and then there are those pesky local laws that have the nerve to require that a company delivers what it says it will deliver.

 

As I've said in other posts....if you believe the contract is absolute, then be prepared to board your ship on your next cruise and sit there, unmoving, until you disembark at the end of the cruise...yup, that's ok according to the contract. Many other equally absurd actions are also OK according the contract....eg. they only serve peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for every meal on the cruise.

Absolutely correct.

I believe the issue here is people ( probably from a different jurisdiction) who have no idea of the protection afforded to customers in the UK and Europe.

One of the main reasons why UK passengers pay significantly more than their North American counterparts is the risks Celebrity and others have identified with Consumer Protection here v North America.

Whilst I do not mind sharing some knowledge with my fellow Europeans I find the interference from (presumably) across the pond a tad tedious . After all we wouldn't question the laws in , say, the USA. We might find it odd that a 20 year old. can legally buy a firearm but not a bottle of Bud but that is the system.

I think our American friends would be even more surprised if they knew the European regulations surrounding flight delays and how much the airlines have been forced to pay out in compensation despite the airline contracts small print.

The cruise industry is not immune from the protection laws as other travel providers have already discovered .

We go with the flow, hey some days we miss breakfast due to our wonderful evening the night before. We've definitely learnt to work out each cruise separately. We were so disappointed not to be able to use luminae as advertised so we've not rushed to book another suite and are sticking with a lovely hump cabin

the crucial thing here is the information available when you made the booking for a suite.

If it was after the statements about 'Suite Class' in particular those from the Head of Celebrity UK , then I opine there has been a very clear breach of contract.

It would appear that CelX maintain their consistency here [emoji12]

 

They are Masters of inconsistencies [emoji32]

 

Does each boat just do its own thing or can Miami not get the same message to the massive number of boats they 'control'[emoji12]

Just to demonstrate further the consistency of the confusion CelX are Masters at. This was posted on another thread ;-

We were on the May 18-29 Reflection Mediterranean cruise and dined in Luminae most nights. Service was excellent and never waited for a table. Food was very good although my wife did order off the MDR menu on two nights. Daughter and I dined off the Luminae menu and thoroughly enjoyed all the selections. They also were fully functional for breakfast and Lunch. Only minor complaint we had related to the chairs. The seat back is far away on the new chairs but they were quick to provide a small pillow for my wife. They were extremely accomodating to ensure everything was perfect.

Now which one of the posts do I guess will apply to my cruise next week on Reflection [emoji32]

We boarded the Summit on May 10th and did have lunch in Luminae. We were told by the MC concierge that Luminae would be open for breakfast, lunch and dinner every day of our cruise. Lunch is served every day from 12 until 1:30pm, and it has been wonderful.

We just returned from our cruise on the Equinox, and contrary to what Celebrity posted here, there still was no lunch served in Luminae on embarkation day or sea days. They did offer lunch on port days from 12:00 to 1:00 pm, but most folks were off the ship at that time. We were disappointed that Celebrity did not provide what they promised - three meals a day, including lunch on embarkation day. On sea days, there was only brunch from 10:30 am to 1:00 pm, and dinner.

It would appear that CelX maintain their consistency here [emoji12]

They are Masters of inconsistencies [emoji32]

Does each boat just do its own thing or can Miami not get the same message to the massive number of boats they 'control'[emoji12]

Even though this can become a contentious issue I find it fascinating to read the different perspectives, whether culturally-based on otherwise.

 

 

 

Certainly as an American, I am accustomed to tipping. Tipping the waiter, bartender, cab driver, bellman, doorman, housekeeper, hair stylist, etc. etc. What bothers me, even having been raised in a tip-happy culture, is that what used to be the "really nice tip" is now standard. 20% has all but become the standard for restaurants. Over the years I found myself almost always tipping ~ 20%. Generally for good service I would round up to the nearest dollar above 20%, and for ok service I would round down. Eventually I realized that I wasn't providing much of an incentive for good service, so I changed my habits. I still tip 20% for good service, but will not hesitate to move down to 15 or even 10% when service is not adequate (and it's the server's fault). On the flip side I will often tip 25% or more when the service is exceptional.

 

 

 

I've gone through the same change in philosophy on ships. In addition to the auto tips, I used to give a standard 20$ extra to each room steward and to each waiter, as well as to the drink person in the dining room. Now I give nothing extra to the crew, unless they stand out, in which case I provide a generous tip.

everyone to their own views.

I dont tip and I get excellent service. The cruise line sell my cruises as 'Modern Luxury' which I believe includes good service. i like to think my customers receive a good service but I neither receive nor expect a 'tip'. The staff who have provided excellent service ate always named by me during the Cruise if speaking to their Managers. and also in the questionnaire. I will be seeking out the attention to detail cards when I board next week.

Interested to hear how your trip goes. We were on the Reflection last June for the 11 night itinerary. What a great cruise! Ship's wifi last year was okay but not great. Your best bet will be to do updates early in the morning or later at night.

 

Oh yeah look for Ned the bartender at the Sunset Bar. Great bartender.

 

Have a great cruise!

 

Cheers

Tom

i too like the sunset bar-

Must surely look after a fellow golfist's requests [emoji15]

We'll be following you in July so very interested to see your reports:)

 

 

 

Would love to see the lunch and breakfast menus in Luminae

will take some pics [emoji41]. probably not doing it every day as half our group are not in suite . Also like to sit at back of the boat having early bfast in the open air with all my friends ... ie alone [emoji15]

Whenever there is a thread on tipping, there are lots of people who claim they tip generously, and some outrageously. But IMHO, this is not generally true, or Celebrity would not have increased gratuities by such a large amount. I, personally, would rather choose who I give extra tips to. But now I will not be quite as generous as I was in the past.

Best tip

plan your visit to Guest relations to remove auto- grats . Usually first night about 10 p.m. is quiet and the Staff cant be bothered to do anything but process your entitlement

Well this has really hacked me off.

15 months ago we were on a caribbean cruise. met some great people from canadia and CelX then put us on the same boat trip jan 2015. They have put us on the same trip with them again in january 2016. Terrible they have such a small choice of trips[emoji33]

on the 2015 cruise we met a further 4 brits and 2 non-clamato juice drinking Canadians ( is that an Oxymoron) Celx have put us all on the same trip january 2017.

To cap it all we are staying in Manchester Airport on Saturday, off on a Med Cruise. the brits mentioned previously are off to greece and staying in the same hotel !

Now we have to have dinner with them and smile and laugh etc. Such a terrible endurance.

Celebrity. You have a lot to answer for [emoji12]

Very much looking forward to your posts, gc.

 

 

 

If I remember correctly from some of your other posts, you're not travelling with wee ones, are you? If I'm wrong, I'd love to hear about kids' things on Celebrity.

 

 

 

If not, I'm just as happy to hear about the adult things. :-)

 

 

 

Have a wonderful cruise!!!

sorry but allergic to kids [emoji33]

one of our roll call pals has a 1 year old with them. We will ask for a kids perspective [emoji41]. no doubt the child will be able to post it quicker than us [emoji15]

I will be following every post!!! We will be on the Reflection on June 29th. Looking forward to hearing about the ship and the ports!!!

My first follower [emoji2]

We have done the ports before and we always do a DIY trip so wont have a lot to say about them. Haven't been on reflection before so interested to see the difference with other ships we have been on [emoji41]

We were on Eclipse in January and felt that the food in the MDR had improved a bit and a lot in spec. restaurants. The service and Staff morale was fantastic. It will be of interest to see if the standards can be maintained or even improved upon a tad . [emoji41]

Hi everyone.

Getting on the Reflection on Monday. i intend to give an update on how things are as we go along.

Will be trying Luminae and will report back on this new eating house.

If anyone has specific questions I will do my best to find the answers. [emoji1]

Due to the flakey Internet on the boat the updates may be a bit sporadic[emoji12]

[emoji299]️[emoji636][emoji574]️[emoji634][emoji295]️[emoji482][emoji485][emoji568][emoji482][emoji482][emoji485][emoji485][emoji484][emoji484][emoji41][emoji41][emoji2][emoji295]️[emoji295]️[emoji295]️

Suspect STRONGLY that Luminae is the same size on all "S" class ships....will be interested to hear what you find out, or perhaps the Celebrity rep can clear this up. We're on Reflection next year, so do have an interest in this...

on reflection next week and will be giving luminae a try [emoji41]

will let you know in here how we got on [emoji2]

The problem is it rarely is the other way round. From watching US ta prices I'd say it's way cheaper in the U.S. 95% of the time and by some way, and that's not even taking into account all the onboard credit offered in the U.S. Plus the ability to cancel without cost and upgrade perks while we have to cancel and re book.

agree up to a point. given the fluctuations in the exchange rate the savings can be significant or insignificant. one also needs to take into account that consumer protection legislation is stronger in UK

Luminae is open dining but they appreciate you giving them an approximate dining time. Only time we ever saw anyone wait was a couple (prime time) who wanted a window seat.

what is the dress code for breakfast ?

On an 11 night cruise, when are the formal nights generally?

Hi Jason

Usually it is the first and last sea days .

In our case the 2nd night (june 9th ) and the penultimate night ( June 17th)

cheers [emoji41]

The topic of tipping continues to court controversy, it is patently obvious in addition to the differing cultures that exist throughout the world and society as a whole, individual choice plays a major part on how this operates in practice.

 

 

 

I doubt there will ever be unanimity in this matter so I will continue do with my money as I see fit and suggest others do the same.

where is the like button ??[emoji41]

lined up and greeting you ???only happens to a queen in the UK

ooops bit of a typo should read "the queen".

much apologies .

True, not being at work for 14 days is always a wow factor for us. We did 6 Cunard cruises & loved them. We still were wowed aboard the Eclipse with the staff lined up & greeting you upon arrival, next you got the bubbly & started your relaxation.

lined up and greeting you ???only happens to a queen in the UK

Thanks gcgold! So, maybe I should have everyone's sea pass in hand in case they ask, but all five of us don't need to stand in line?

well thats we were told . there are many many great things about CelX but consistency with procedures is definitely not one of them [emoji12][emoji41]