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    Reno, Nevada
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  1. They've been on our Oasis sailing since last June or so. Maybe they will be soon? We scored tickets for an incredible $43 pp!! Also picked up the bubbles/voom package for $13/day. Never scoring these prices again so our cruise better go in October!!
  2. This is correct and I am not complaining, per se. I don't knock them, that is the risk I take. I basically am upfronting all of my money assuming a few scenarios: 1) Everything goes without issue (hoping) and we have a great cruise. Lots of PROS here and thus carrying the most weight: Never been on RCCL, Never been on an Oasis class ship, got a SCREAMING deal because of all the covid pricing and L&S, need a real vacation from this world, youngest is now old enough to actually WANT to go to the kids club (hoping that all goes to plan) so we would actually get our 1st cruise in 15 years where we actually might get mommy/daddy time (our oldest only started going to kids club after our youngest was born..so no breaks!)....get my money worth 1a) Vaccines are approved for under 12 by September, and we get her the initial shot and at least she has more protection 1b) vaccines are approved even earlier and she is fully vaxxed by October 2) They announce protocols that aren't a good fit for our youngest, we get a full refund. However, this likely won't happen until very close to the sailing and we scramble to find a replacement trip (I already have the time off and can't move it), but I would have to outlay even MORE $$$ for another trip (flights from Reno aren't cheap...). 3) They cancel the cruise for some reason and we: a) get a refund, b) l&s to next year.... So....all in all none of those scenarios is BAD, just hate outlying thousands of $$$$ (I need to book airfare and other items, too)...but this is the gamble I take for the vacation I love!!
  3. I appreciate the thought. Though I am not really seeking sympathy more just explaining my rationale. It's been a LONG year for us (and all of us). My wife is an RN who worked Covid floors on many occasions, she is burned out, so much so that she is now Per Diem only (went from full-time, to part-time, to 3 days a month) and looking to get out of nursing altogether (a lot of it is also getting basically "spit" in the face by so many people telling her how "Covid isn't real and she is just part of the conspiracy" yet she sat there, day in and day out, having the worse year of her nursing career and on her emotions seeing so many people die on her floor). I got furloughed and then had to find a new role in a completely different industry (but nothing compared to my wife, but still difficult in any year, let alone this year). Kids in full-time home learning. Some immediate family affected by Covid, who were the bill of health any other year, so giving us that scare. A local acquaintance who passed away from Covid. So, Covid is very real to OUR family. More death and disease in 2020 than in my previous 40 years of existence....I am ready for a cruise as that is the only form of travel that I have been able to relax and enjoy myself (that includes AIs, road trips, resorts, etc). I just get frustrated that taking my young child who HAS NO OPTION AT ALL is compared to ADULTS WHO HAVE FULL CONTROL OF THEIR CHOICES is perceived as the same thing...
  4. I would have cancelled my Royal Caribbean cruise with our 6 year old. I was not about to lose my deposit (they said no refund) and already paid amount. They also said I had to use the credit within 12 months. With Royal only having a single ship on the west coast, and another Carnival cruise already booked next year, I don't have enough time off to take another cruise until late 2023 at this point. It's not just our cruise, but we have other groups going with us (my side of the family) who won't cruise without us (they go on on 30+ day cruises all the time, they are only going with us because we do a family trip every couple years). However, they won't budge until they "roll out rules for our specific cruise" which isn't likely for a couple months. I have no intention of losing out on the amount of $ I already paid (which is more than the deposit but less than the final payment). I will see what happens in 3 months. If the vaccine becomes available she will get the shot day 1. I will see how things are before we go, but the schools have 0 issues here having them return with no masks in August, so going on a cruise with a mask for her would be no different than going many places today...
  5. So the question is in a party with a child under 12 how does the restriction to venues work? There are venues that a child wouldn't go to on the list regardless of Covid vaccine restrictions, such as the casino. If I go on a cruise with all guest fully vaccinated except a 6 year old who isn't, I can't go to the Solarium (6 year old not allowed there normally), Casino (no one under 21 anyway), or other venues if I do not go with the 6 year old? I get the dining concern as groups are assigned together, that's fine. We only have a day planned at Coco Cay and we can skip Nassau for now if needed. We can just say on the Oasis OTS all week, so the limited, RCCL required shore excursions are not an issue, either. Basically, if I want to go to dinner with my unlimited dining pass, I can't go to Izumi without my 6 year old? Or my parents staying in a separate cabin? That might be a deal breaker and an interesting twist. Not sure what option we have. Our final payment is due for October tomorrow and a LOT can happen between now and then. Looks like we will have to gamble and see what the requirements are in October. That makes for a terrible overall experience despite our entire family doing their part (and the 6 yr old will be vaccinated the day it becomes available to her). Hmmm EDIT: looking at the Serenade of the Seas list, looks like the only real venue restrictions are the Casino, Silent Party, Diamond lounge (which I can't use anyway), the Pub, and Viking Crown lounge. None of which my youngest would even use. So, I can't use the Casino? Eh, Not that bad...but still interesting. EDIT 2: Reading through the print, looks like they clarified all of these concerns. "Travel parties with vaccinated and unvaccinated guests, such as parents with kids, should stick to those venues marked for everyone when together" Last sentence resolves my concerns! Looks like if we are not with our child (parents watching, or in the kids club) we can enjoy the ship as normal. Not much different than any other time!
  6. Uh, is this a serious response? If you have full access and ability to be vaccinated and refuse to it's your choice to suffer the consequences of that decision. If you have no ability to get a vaccine that is through no fault of your own why should you be punished? Also, if I did my civic duty of "not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country" why then should I be punished for helping the collective good? Why should I carry dead weight of those riding my coat tails?
  7. See, this is an example of misconstrued/very OVERLY simplistic and dangerously generalized statement that someone not fully informed might go "yup! see an example!! Covid shot is bad because that shot was bad!!" without knowing the details behind what ACTUALLY happened in 1976... That 1976 Flu Vaccine was a VERY different scenario than Covid-19 is today. First off, the shot wasn't discontinued BECAUSE of the side-effects but were a catalyst, it was really discontinued because the US government FEARED that an outbreak of an incorrectly identified "spanish flu" variant (in reality it was a variation of swine flu) was about to spread based on some very severe cases of flu at Fort Dix but never amounted to ANY outbreaks of any kind. There WERE side-effects, most remember Guillain-Barré as the primary side-effect from this shot. So the combination of NO OUTBREAKS and side-effects that actually affected more people than apparently came down with the flu, the shot was discontinued. It's remembered in US psyche as a failure of policy, not of the flu shot. But to this day it is seen as the "gold standard" of "failed vaccines". TLDR: Jimmy Carter and the US government attempted to be PROACTIVE to a potential FLU outbreak and developed a modified FLU vaccine to distribute to the masses to PREVENT an outbreak. Since an outbreak NEVER occurred and there were some serious side-effects (rare, but severe) it was determined that it wasn't worth continuing distribution. HAD AN OUTBREAK ACTUALLY OCCURRED, LIKE COVID-19, THE SHOTS LIKELY WOULD HAVE CONTINUED. Mind you the 450 cases of Guillain-Barré were READILY identified within 6 weeks of inoculation, out of almost 40 million shots. As a comparison, we have now been giving the Covid shot for almost 7 months and over 2 billion world wide, with nary of some blood clots and a few cases of inflammation (statistically). And lastly, why do people think that our understanding of how to make safe and effective vaccines hasn't vastly improved since 1976? I mean, it took how many years and billions of $ to sequence the human genome in the 90s....it took a week to sequence SARS-COV2 in 2020, and you can now pay a hundred bucks and basically have your entire genome knocked out and results in a week?
  8. And while sad and devastating to those families, it is statistical proof that these vaccines are incredibly successful. Remember 30 people died on Concordia and statistically that made the odds of dying on a cruise in 2012 much higher than getting the covid shot and dying from covid, yet we all still cruise...
  9. That's a very misleading argument. The "My Body, My Choice" mantra used by "the left" and feminist organizations was/is intended for 1 very specific topic, reproductive/sexual rights of women. In the case of the that usage, that's a personal decision that only directly affects that person (it in no way can directly affect you personally), whereas this argument of "my body, my choice" in the usage of vaccines CAN affect other people. There is a difference. Just because other "political groups" decide to pick and choose how to "apply" "My Body, My Choice" doesn't change the original intent. That issue should be argued with the people that changed the meaning.
  10. Correct, they do not pose a risk, however more than 19 have died since Covid began (to reference the earlier comment you made to another poster) and they do make up 2-4% of hospitalizations. That being said, I have little fear of my 6 yr old going on a cruise this year. I am vaccinated, my wife is, and my 14 year old daughter has just received her 2nd shot and will be good in 2 weeks. I also know the statistics for her age group are minimal in terms of direct impact to the age group(as outlined above) but they sure can spread the disease to those who are not vaccinated, which is why they will get tested.
  11. Like × Hold on, a cruise is not a right. It's a LUXURY. I think being selfish IS ok in this scenario. Why would I NOT WANT TO BE SELFISH about potentially having my INVESTMENT ruined (ie a cancelled cruise) because a covid outbreak occurs from a small group of unvaxxed passengers that exceeds the CDC guidelines? I got vaccinated and pose no additional risk (statistically) to the cruise line than I had before COVID-19 existed. If you do not feel a vaccine is something you need or want, then you can wait until the time comes that you can cruise without it. Same with immunocompromised (they are such a small subset of the US population BTW that they often avoided this type of travel, and eventually with so few exceptions there will be decisions made on a case-by-case basis). I also have a child under 12 with a cruise planned in October...looks like she'll be covered by this policy or hopefully be offered the vaccine by that time. If not, I will have to delay my cruise. No angst on my part to the cruise line, I want them to succeed and will do what I need to to make that happen so I can get back to this way of traveling. I think that feels pretty reasonable. These companies need to MAKE MONEY and it's not selfish of them to NOT WANT A DIAMOND/GRAND/RUBY situation all over again. I as a passenger, ALSO do not want this scenario. Yes, that is selfish.
  12. If only I lived in Florida I would absolutely apply to this, sounds like my current and previous roles!! Some day...
  13. I am one of those with a LOT of money laid out. Have a family cruise with 15 people booked for October. Unfortunately a number of them will not be going as they won't vaccinate at all and refuse to get testing done (it's all a conspiracy). I also personally have my own concern with not knowing since I have a 6 yr old booked on the Oasis of the Seas in October and I REALLY need to get the final GO AHEAD to finish booking flights (have a credit from csncelled 2020 flights on United I need to use and airfare isn't getting cheaper) or to cancel altogether. Payment is due in 3 weeks. The rest of my immediate family are good (my parents are now reluctantly vaccinated), my wife and I are, and our 14yr old has just received her 2nd shot. I need to also know so I can plan a backup for the same week if we DONT go, Disney is booking up fast!! That being said, I do wholeheartedly think these conversations and debates will end once we can go back to debating chair hogs rules, dining room etiquette, the decline of XYZ compared to 20 year ago, crowds at the pool, kids on the stairs, and which burger is best at sea....
  14. This is not accurate regarding Covid-19. Most scenarios, even longer, but not for this. FDA requires ~1 year of efficacy data, not safety data, and since we only tested for efficacy since mid-2020 so that means the data should be available soon but Pfizer submitted early data to get the reviews moving. Safety is a non-factor at this point. NORMAL approvals take years due to red-tape; reviews done in sequence instead of in parallel, etc. For COVID-19 and basically unlimited funding, the FDA is basically going as fast as they SAFELY can go by performing data reviews, safety checks, and any other "bureaucratic" garbage that slows everything else down. I expect an FDA approval sometime this year, and I would not be that surprised if completed by summer's end (for schools to require, for example) and due to the large amount of vaccine hesitancy we are now hitting in this country. OSHA has already said that workplaces CAN required EUA vaccines like Covid-19 but FDA approval will go a lot further. In fact, Pfizer will LIKELY be FDA approved in the 2nd half of 2021 unless some REALLY EGREGIOUS oversight is caught, but with almost 100 million Pfizer doses administered in the US with little REAL fallout I doubt it will have any major issues. Here is just a single source but there are a lot more: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/18/covid-vaccines-what-full-fda-approval-means-for-you.html TLDR; It is “highly likely” that the Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna vaccines will be fully approved by the FDA as early as the second half of this year, said Lawrence Gostin, director of the World Health Organization’s Collaborating Center on National and Global Health Law. The shots, he said, have already demonstrated to be safe and highly effective in millions of Americans.
  15. This is correct but that being said, ALLof them that became infected were pretty much asymptomatic the ENTIRE TIME. That is BECAUSE OF THE VACCINE doing the vaccine thing that it does. Statistically, had they not been vaccinated, 3 would show no symptoms, 2 would show mild, 3 moderate, 2 in the hospital, and potentially 1 death or at least ICU. I think the results speak for themselves. Honestly, had they never been testing they wouldn't have even probably have known at this point..... Breakthrough infections are expected in roughly ~10% of those vaccinated based on current efficacy (and way better than other vaccines, like the flu vaccine) from all the vaccines. I always find it interesting when people "know a bunch of people" who were the exceptions, when the odds of any one person "knowing" an exception is about 1 in 10, but to know 8-10? I know a lot of people, and work with a LOT of people and I only know of 2 exceptions (out of hundreds I work with over the course of weeks) who had any covid symptoms and tested positive after they got their vaccines. Neither was more than some minor aches and chills (very much like an annoying cold). This is in a workplace that tests daily...hundreds of employees and I have access to the results of those tests (I don't have NAMES, but the ones who did I knew and let me know). Odds are better to win the lottery twice...I'd suggest buying a ticket for Powerball. The statistical likelihood of knowing someone who died from Covid/complications caused by Covid after the vaccine IS FULLY EFFECTIVE is SO LOW it's hard to even compare it statistically (effective = AT LEAST 14 DAYS post 2nd injection or 14 days from J&J and you have to guarantee the person did not pick up the virus PRIOR to full immunity). Accurate and vetted data does not lie, interpretation does. Now, that does sound like the same "argument" that I keep hearing of "thousands died from the vaccine" yet thousands a day die normally, who also likely had that vaccine and other vaccines. Taking a vaccine and dying is not causation, it's correlation (unless definitive cause can be determined). People going to the hospital infected with covid and dying because they developed pneumonia IS causation (they died from complications of covid). But to hedge my bets, my heart goes out to the original quoted poster for their losses, regardless of reason.
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