Ozjohnno

Why don't you just pay the fee to pick your flights and take advantage of getting both the flights & seats you want ? Do your own research first and have a couple alternatives. The longer you wait the best flights and seats will not be available.

This is the bit I don't understand. Why do you get better service the more "fees" you pay. Surely you should get the same customer service you would get if you booked your airfares through a TA.

It would depend of course on the laws in Australia, but there are several parts of this article that give me pause.

 

1) David Moore and Janette Howell spent their life savings – $26,200 – on what they expected to be a relaxing river cruise through the picturesque French and German countryside. Who spends their life savings on one trip? Unless I am dying I only spend what I can afford.

 

2) Many chose to cruise because of limited mobility or other health problems. Everyone on my river cruise was fairly active. I can't image a river cruise being a good option for someone with very limited mobility.

 

3) The plaintiffs are seeking compensation and/or personal injury damages for inconvenience, distress and disappointment One can sue if "Disappointed" Oh boy, won't that open the floodgates

 

Would trip insurance have covered what happened in 2013? (I thought it covered disruptions and such, but maybe not in this case) But if so, to spend one's life savings of $26,000 without insurance is just plain foolish. Of course I would be disappointed if my river cruise turned into a bus trip, and depending on when the cruise line(s) knew that they would not be able to offer a cruise they should have given people the opportunity to rebook. But in this particle case they were already several days into the cruise before the boat docked. Not sure what the cruise line was suppose to do at that point.

Australian consumer laws are some of the best in the world. They were designed to protect the Australian consumer against just such actions by an Australian company. You would have noted that Scenic have tried to divert the action by stating ....

"Furthermore, it said the river cruises were not operated by it but by independent contractors, including Scenic Tours Europe AG, and any claim must be pursued against them."

A simple check finds that this and other companies are wholly owned subsidiaries of Scenic and is just a ploy to drag things out.

I understand that you and other Americans may not be covered as well as us and whilst you may have pause I for one am glad our consumer laws are in place. At least we don't get inundated with 2 for 1 deals that aren't. They too are illegal down here.

Sorry John to have upset you again, and again unintentionally. I wasn't denigrating you or Tauck. While I still haven't sailed on Tauck (something I don't feel I can afford at their US$ prices), I still consider it the top of the line among river cruises and would never imply that they serve plonk. The point I was trying to make is that while your hard work on the spreadsheet may limit surprise expenses, it struck me from these recent posts that it won't completely eliminate them because there are always features that you don't know about -- and also that several recent posts have concluded from their spreadsheets that the price differences are actually very small in the end. Your experience on that latter point may be different, especially because different cruise lines seem to use very different exchange rates to the Australian $. I remain quite impressed that you were able to figure out that Tauck was actually a bargain for you, despite the general impression that they are expensive, and hope you can continue to find good value on your future cruises.

How did Tauck get into this conversation? I didn't mention them. All I was doing was giving an example as how we gauged a per diem cost on a river cruise by using a spreadsheet. If you read these boards, research the companies brochures and take the time to list them all you will get a sound costing of any river cruise company. If I'm asked a question about Tauck or someone wants to compare Tauck I'll bring them into the conversation but I repeat all I was doing was bring a suggestion to the OP. Wine or food quality is a personal taste and can't be included in a cost analysis.

I can understand how making a spreadsheet seems helpful in comparing river cruises, but I think there are two difficulties that make it hard to get accurate results:

(1) It's very hard to tease out some of the differences between lines -- for example in two current threads it has become obvious that Uniworld, for all its luxury and inclusiveness, charges extra for a lot of excursions that others lines (AMA has been mentioned) include as free options, and that Vantage charges a corkage fee for wine while Viking does not (and AMA does in the bar but not at dinner). There must be many other details like this that I haven't found out about yet.

(2) A spreadsheet tends to rate things only by cost, not by quality -- so included tours all look the same, although they may be quite different based on the size of the walking group and quality of the guides; same with included wine (plonk vs. nectar of the gods).

 

 

 

That's why I prefer to compare the reviews and comments here on the River Cruising board to identify the lines that seem to provide a product that suits me. Enough people have concluded that the price differences vanish when you quantify all the inclusions on the apparently high-priced cruise lines, so that I feel confident focusing solely on quality. If there is a slightly higher cost in the end, I'm sure it's backed by a quality product. I'd rather pay a little more and be constantly delighted than save a few dollars and notice all the cut corners.

I've always appreciated your insight and input on these threads over the years and yes a spreadsheet only covers rating the cost of a cruise on a per diem basis using all available data like Uniworlds optional excursions BUT that was the question asked by the OP not whether the wine was "plonk". I find it somewhat insulting that those of us who take the considerable effort to find out the true price of a cruise are denigrated by those that obviously have the wealth to take yearly cruises based on perceived quality of a product as described by someone else. I'll continue to use a spreadsheet safe in the knowledge that at the end of the exercise I'll know how much the cruise will cost and you others can choose your next cruise based on your gut feelings.

On our Tauck cruise through southern France last year we purchased wine at a couple of the wineries we visited and drunk them onboard. We shared a couple of bottles one dinner with new friends and Scylla staff gladly opened and poured the wine. There was no corkage fee. On another occasion staff opened a bottle in the Lido and served the wine with a plate of fruit and cheeses of the area. Again no corkage fee.

I'm sure if you sent your cruise company an email they would quickly answer your questions.

Rod

Thanks, Rod, for posting such a detailed review. I am booked on this same itinerary on April 25, I appreciate your observations.

 

I took advantage of the "Gift of Time" free night in Paris prior to the tour. I've been to Paris a few times already, so I was wondering if the Tauck tour of the city allowed for some spots to get off and continue independently.

 

Did they give you a night tour of Paris on the bus after the welcome dinner?

 

Your comments on the Monte Carlo Fairmont sound familiar... I remember reading many similar comments on this board when I was doing some research on my trip, months ago. This is really sad...

 

Anyway, thanks for all your posts.

 

Sergio

Sergio - You will have numerous opportunities to get off the bus if you so wish and there was quite a deal of free time allocated. After the dinner we did do a night tour of Paris and it was outstanding. As for the Fairmont I do hope Tauck has encouraged them to lift their game.

If you have any Aussies on your trip then starting on the 25th April could add something special as that's the day we honour the ANZAC's that landed on Gallipolli on that day in 1915. This year is the 100th Anniversary.

I'm sure you'll have a great trip with Tauck.

Rod

One last post on this subject. The OP asked the question - "Sorting out the Price Differences" and I gave the way we did it. I agree that guessing the price difference based on feelings is one way to go about it but I just wanted to give the OP the spreadsheet version. Hard work? You're correct but as someone who does not have the means to take a river cruise every year like many who post here I found the effort worthwhile.

Apples to apples? I find it difficult to get to the fruit to fruit comparison. :eek:

 

Several of the amenities provided by the "upscale" lines have little or no value added for us. We do limited optional excursions; we wander and explore on our own . . . little value added with a plethora of excursions. I get butler, footman and valet confused. ;) And the list could go on and on.

 

We discovered that putting a detailed spreadsheet together is overkill for us. Cruise fare, air fare, typical tip amount plus any optionals that interest us is enough data for a cost comparison.

This was the type of response I knew was coming. Let me please try to clarify my last post. Try substituting like for like instead of apples to apples. I fully appreciate that some prefer a certain size stateroom or prefer not to have a balcony french or real so if that's the case exclude that detail from your spreadsheet. If you don't want options included in the price then take those companies out of the spreadsheet. BUT no matter what your preferences are if you think you can ascertain the true and total cost of you cruise by estimation then you are wrong. You just might be surprised just how much closer in cost two companies are in total price when you add in all the "optional extras".

Everyone knows that I prefer Tauck but it didn't just happen overnight. Before our first Tauck river cruise in 2011 and again before our cruise in France last year, again with Tauck, we spent a considerable amount of time comparing all cruise lines on a cost per diem basis. My wonderful business accountant wife on both occasions prepared spread sheets on each and every company doing our itinerary and brought everything back to a simple figure.

In our case the cost per diem for Tauck compared more than favourably with every other company. It is an exercise I would encourage everyone should attempt because although upfront Tauck may appear to be more expensive when you factor in all the elements of costing used by other companies true figures do appear.

I realise this exercise is very time consuming and will not sway those of you who are in love with one company or another because you will find reasons to disagree but in all honesty there is no better way to cost your next cruise then bringing everything back to apples v apples via a spreadsheet.

Hi Stevie,

If you just booked the air and cruise with Viking you won't get a confirmation of the flight itinerary until Viking actually processes your tickets. Usually 45-60 days ahead of your cruise based on what I've read here. I have read here on CC that if, at that time, you don't like your flights you can pay the $50pp charge to deal with Viking's Custom Air. You could also pay that surcharge now and pick the flights you want right away. I would recommend that if you go that route you spend some time picking out the flights that you want before you call them.

We all get a little nervous about these things but my reading of the feedback here on CC is that most folks have no trouble at all.

Have a great trip,

Frank

I am very wary of a company that gives "better" customer service for a fee.

Can you request a bottle of liquor for your cabin on Tauck?Hubby likes a scotch on balcony.

I have to admit it never entered into my tiny brain to ask for an entire bottle of Scotch so I simply don't know but can guess the answer AND as for enjoying a drink on the balcony I also never did that as Tauck only have French Balconies. I can say I did enjoy a tipple on the sun deck and in the Lido in the stern. We requested a cheese and fruit plate which was delivered promptly.

The only drinks I asked for were water, Diet Coke and some beers for the cabin fridge and it was replenished every day.

Rod

If you are considering Uniworld and AMA may I suggest you also have a look at Tauck. We cruised the Rhone with Tauck last August and although I might be perceived as a bit biased Tauck would tick all your "want" boxes except for the outside balcony. Scenic is the only line with outside balconies cruising the Rhone at present. We thought everything about the cruise was outstanding.

If you have any specific questions about Tauck please ask.

Rod

Because this is the most frequent question asked on these pages our host has a sticky thread at the top. May I suggest you give that a read then you would probably have more specific questions to ask.

We all have our favourite lines and what might be great for me may not even be on your list. Whatever cruise you choose with whatever company will probably make you as addicted to river cruising as most of us are.

It would seem that the Australian dollar mirrors that of Canada. When we booked Tauck in 2011 our dollar was at times as high as $1.12US and we decided to make the final payment at 90 days but in 2014 with the Aussie dollar starting to fall we made periodic payments on their web site to try and get the best value for "our" dollar. As I've said a number of times in 2011 Tauck's prices to Aussies was cheaper than what it was offering to its US customers.

Given the current state of our dollar, when I last looked it was around .77 cents US, we won't be taking any further Tauck offerings for quite a while. Unless of course we get a visit from the Lotto fairy.

Great, thank you! DH likes his Scotch and would find it helpful to see what he might have to pay for.

Although this is not really relevant to your question. When cruising with Tauck my pre-dinner drink was an 18 year old Glenfiddich single malt and like everything in the bar was included. Tauck have no "premium exceptions".

I think our "Host" has hit the nail on the head here. We've been on only two river cruises and are Australian. In 2011 our dollar was very strong against the US dollar and we found Tauck to be cheaper than APT, Scenic and less than $100 dearer than Uniworld. In 2014 our trip was much the same. This time it was $300 odd dearer than Uniworld, around the same price as APT and was still cheaper than Scenic. Since then our dollar has collapsed and I have no idea what the comparison would be if we were planning a trip for 2016 which unfortunately without a visit from the Lotto fairy will not happen.

From our spreadsheets I can honestly say that when comparing apples with apples Tauck gave us the very best value for our dollar, at that time.

Thanks Caviargal; we do prefer a bit more luxury, but it seemed like Tauck is very high priced and not worth the cost they charge. I will have to look further at AMA! I truly appreciate all the input from everyone on this board!!! Thanks!!

I think that is a very subjective way to compare two products that don't pretend to be equal. It's a bit like here in Australia asking for a comparison between a Kia and a BMW. You just can't. I've had only two river cruises and both have been with Tauck and as Vantage is not available to Australian travelers it would be foolish for me to try and compare. All I can say is when the Australian dollar was strong Tauck represented the best value per diem than any of the other companies we compared ( spread sheets don't lie) thus at the time they were not very high priced in fact both Scenic and AMA's Australian partner APT were both more expensive. IMO Tauck's service and product are truly worth what they charge but I also realise that many people don't want what they offer.

This is such a subjective topic as one person's Caviar might be another person's salty, crunchy fish eggs. I was more than satisfied with the food quality and presentation on my two Tauck cruises. I felt that the Chef and his staff on both cruises used local produce to produce very good local fare. I thought each meal was a tasty adventure and I got to taste the various dishes of the regions.

Then there was a lady on my first cruise that thought her local restaurant in Chicago cooked better German food than the Chef on board. To each his/her own. I'm pretty sure you'll like the food no matter what river cruise company you choose.

It's times like this that I'm glad I live "Down Under". Never had any Viking mailings and I've never seen or heard them on radio or TV. Maybe they don't have a marketing team in Australia?

If I remember correctly and I'm sure it will be pointed out to me if I'm wrong but I don't recall one complaint against Tauck for the way they handled the situations.

In 2011 we spent 5 great nights at the Hotel Eiffel Seine. It is directly opposite the Metro/RER station Bir Hakim, has many restaurants and shops including a great little supermarket within very easy walking distance. The Seine is just across the road and the Tour Eiffel just around the corner. To top it off we were there on a Sunday and the very extensive Farmer's Market was almost outside our door. We felt it fitted into the 3 star budget we had set for ourselves and we felt it was money well spent. Our review on Trip advisor is now well out of date but you can read what others thought. If the Lotto fairy ever visits our place I'd return there again tomorrow.

In reviewing past cruises and the upcoming cruise companion, it seems, for the most part, the included tours are usually in the morning, usually consisting of general city bus or walking tours. Then, in the afternoon, there are optional excursions offered to museums, palaces, etc. This has always been the case and has not changed even with the "all-inclusive" trips. Beer and wine has always been complimentary at meals. So, let's examine exactly what has changed with all-inclusive. Drinks are now free all day, but when you think of it, most passengers are off the ship during the day. Although I have to admit it might be nice to have an open bar in the evening and on "sea days" when we are cruising during the day. But to me, what has really changed are the included tips. And I sincerely hope this is not the cruise line not wanting to increase the salaries of their hard-working staff and thus passing the expense down to us. I think they should pay their staff well anyway and that tips should be given individually and collectively as we have always done. But I also must admit, that most passengers responding to this board have spoken favorably about their all-inclusive trips, so I will not knock it til I've tried it so I will keep an open mind about it!

The sentence that I highlighted, I believe is one of the major inclusions that make some lines all-inclusive and others not. I know that Scenic offer a choice of at times three tours to different things in a city being visited. In the case of Tauck an example would be in Vienna where guests are offered either a tour of the winter or summer palaces and in Nuremberg a choice of tours to either the medieval old town or the sites associated with WW2. All of these tours are included in the base price of the cruise - there is no additional costs.

I can't speak first hand about Scenic's bar but on the Tauck boat everything at the bar was included including what some companies might call "top shelf". I imbibed in a 15 year old single malt scotch and one evening I tried a very good VSOP Cognac. To me it wasn't the availability of an open bar all day and night but the availability to have a drink of any thing I wanted knowing that it was included in the price of the cruise.

As for tipping I hoped my explanation, as an Australian, was accepted. As for buying something in the gift shop that like choosing to have laundry done on board is, I believe, a personal choice and cost and not a part of the all-inclusive pricing.

As I said in my original post I truly realise that all-inclusive is not for everyone but those of us that do appreciate the convenience of all-inclusive should be equally accepted by others not challenged.

But where does your definition of "all" inclusive end? Should everything in the gift shop be free for the taking? Should every passenger get a free massage every day? And since different cabin categories are "options" then no cruise that charges different rates for different cabins is "all" inclusive.

I'm sure you're just looking for a fight and I won't oblige you. The definition of all-inclusive has been explained, I feel, quite competently by me and many others. I'm sorry you don't understand.

From my and my sisters experience (she cruised with Scenic) the two cruise companies that give you choices of tours that others may charge you for, are Tauck and Scenic thus making them both all-inclusive.

So, it's ok for laundry charges not to be included in an "all-inclusive", but optional tours at an additional charge are not acceptable? Where/how do you draw those lines?

 

To me, it's all semantics, and I appreciate a company (any company) putting out a price they will charge me and a list of what is included. Then I can compare apples to apples on my own and make up my own mind about what the value to me is....

 

To me right now, all-inclusive river cruises in general are more money than I wish to pay for the services I would receive. Never say never and all that, but for now, no....

I have to buy in on your first sentence because there was a hidden challenge there somewhere. Up until recently, I believe as a part of a loyaly system, laundry charges were always considered personal similar I also believe as to whether you might buy something in the gift shop. That is why I mentioned laundry in my post. IMO there is no line to draw here. If you pay for a cruise that does not include all the trips or tips or anything else doesn't make that cruise bad at all it just means it is not all-inclusive.

I would suspect that everyone chooses a cruise based on their holiday budget but it's hard to agree that when you add in all the optional extras that all-inclusive cruises are that much more expensive particularly is you take all the extras.

You and I might and probably hundreds of others not agree with me on the definition of all-inclusive but neither type of costing should deter anyone from experiencing a river cruise.