MATHA531

jiminy...this is not a philosophical argument whether to scury around looking for foreign currency befpre a trip. I think it's silly and unnecessary but really do understand there are 2 sides to every story. I completely understand when people say take a bit of local currency for incidentals. I disagree but would never disagree verbally or put somebody down for it. It's your business. However, simply from a pragmatic view, it makes no sense for things where hundreds, maybe a thousand dollars or euro may be involved (a 2 day tour for 4) to carry around that much cash when it's unnecessary and certainly not cheaper. If the tour companies only took cash, fine and understandable. If you were staying at a small bed and breakfast, fine and understandable. If you don't have a credit card with no ftf and wish to save 3% by purchasing cash or are willing to take a small lose for convenience. Fine and understandable.

But when dealing with things like this where the companies take credit cards at no additional cost, that to me while it may be your business is simply not understandable. I would never want to cart around that much cash unless absolutely necessary where here it isn't. It's much more than a matter of convenience. It's a matter of safety and security.

I still don't understand and never will understand why people prefer to pay cash especially for larger amounts. Does anybody really feel it's safer to carry around a couple of hundred dollars or euro? Now I get it that some smaller type places in Europe may be cash only which indeed cuts down on the alternative. Even if one's credit is lousy, there are always visa or mastercard debit cards which at least for these purposes operate the same way.

Did I miss someone almost getting killed with this fee?:rolleyes:

No you didn't but it's an almost criminal fee because the banks play no role in currency conversions. Whatever risk there is falls on mc/visa. This is an obnoxious fee charged by banks because they can get away with it; not because they are performing any kind of service to earn it.

Bob, I just want to double check with you.

 

If you have to pay the 3% bank CC charges like me and many others would you still advice me to let the CC do the conversion into my local currency and not let RC do the conversion.

I can't answer for Canada but I suspect it works much the same way it does in the USA.

As DCC spread through the travelling world, one of the claimed advantages of DCC is to avoid the 3% currency conversion fee most of the banks in the USA (again forgive me as I don't know the way Canadian banks work) have historically loaded onto foreign currency conversions...1% by visa or mc and 2% of greedy profit by them as they do not do the currency exchange, the networks do. With DCC eating into their profits, the banks converted the currency exchange fee into a foreign transaction fee. Thusly even if you decide how wonderful it is for a merchant to bill you in your currency, if the transaction takes place through a foreign bank, you get nailed for the 3% fee as a foreign transaction. But in the USA, at least for this, competition is a wonderful thing and it is not really all that difficult here to find a credit card that not only doesn't add the near criminal extra 2% on top of visa/mc, but many banks eat the 1% fee of visa/mc and offer no foreign transaction fees cards. But it's a case by case situation so one thing you always have to do when signing up for a credit card is to verify just what, if any, foreign transaction fee it charges and whether it is a foreign transaction fee or a currency conversion fee.

As others have said above, there is nothing you need to do to protect yourself against having your credit card account hacked. Both by federal law (and I am sure elsewhere) and the reluctance of the banks to alienate their customers, every credit card issued in the USA comes with zero liability for fraud. While certainly everybody is entitled to their opinion and I don't put down anybody who has a contrary opinion, one of the benefits of sung credit cards while travelling is not worrying about exchange rates and not having to hit ATM's or carry around cash. I don't understand when people advice things like not to use credit cards especially for small purchases because the more you use a card, the greater is its chance of being hacked (which is true enough but so what). At the same time, because of this possibility, it is always recommended that one bring more than one card with them while on holiday just in case (I bring 3 or 4). The banks make an immense amount of money on their plastic card (now metal sometimes) operations and don't want to do anything to discourage you from using them.

Agree with others, use option B.

 

We now use a Canadian bank issued US$ credit card which is also another option. In this case we do not select either option A or B.

I do understand that some Canadian banks offer US$ accounts which are particularly useful I imagine for snow birds but ultimately these accounts have to be funded or paid off. At some point, you do have to convert currency, don't you? Just for example, you pay off the US credit card account with checks from your US checking account but how does money get into that account if say your pension or whatever is paid in CAD? And that in essence is the conversion rate and that is totally at the discretion of the bank, isn't it?

I do know mc/visa use the interbank rate to convert currency and add on a 1% loading fee. Is it the general policy of Canadian banks to pass along that 1% and/or add another 2% the way some American banks do.

Option A is the dreaded dynamic currency conversion a growing problem for international travelers. Option B is let your bank do the conversion using mc/visa rules with or without a loading fee. In general, B is better.

With my experience in cyber security, I would suggest not to put your credit card info onto any Russian payment system as a precaution.

And so what happens if your credit card is compromised. Not that this is a delightful experience but it happens all the time. Most likely the bank will notify you some suspicious charges have come through, you'll tell them if they are fraudulent. If they are, they are removed from your account, a new card with a new number is issued and you're back in business. The most inconvenient thing is notifying all your automatic debit merchants of the new number.

But it probably will not be a problem with reputable firms such as Alla as the terminal is theirs and really not subject to skimming or anything like that.

It is for the reason that there's always a possibility of one's credit card being hacked that one should travel wth at least 2 or 3 different cards just as a precaution.

What do they mean, the exact price in Rubles will be determined by the exchange rate? The price in Rubles should be fixed. They should be able to give you that price now and stick to it. If they will not stick to the US price, they need to set a firm price in Rubles.

The tours are priced in US$; at least they have been in the past. When I toured with them about 3 years ago, the last stop was the mandatory souvenir shop where you paid up. They had the wireless terminals so common everywhere but the USA, they converted the amount in US$ to ROU and ultimately the rate they used was fair.

I wonder if this has anything to do with the bad blood currently between Russia and the West?

Look. I'm not trying to be arrogant or Mr. Know it All or whatever. Just trying to report the facts as Sgt. Joe Friday used to say all the time.

I think though the things that come out of this is a credit card for foreign travel is one package. You choose the card or cards that best meet your needs in terms of card verification method, foreign transaction fees, annual fees and rewards program. US cards lacking pin capabilities will work almost universally. They are supposed to work completely universally. Everybody has to make a decision of just what is most important to them and whatever decision one makes, is the right one.

I've mostly tried to use mine in independent shops, restaurants, and cafes around Aarhus, which are the types of places I expect most visitors to Denmark would be trying (aside from hotels, etc.).

 

The fact that you work at a major DK retailer and are only "almost 100% certain" that it will accept a card with a signature should tell people exactly how often this comes up.

 

My advice is to avoid a potential hassle by getting a chip & PIN card if at all possible.[/quote]

 

Ah ha. Therein lies the rub. Chip and pin cards with offline pins are simply next to impossible to obtain in the USA. For peace of mind, I do indeed have a chip and pin card available just in case but have never had to use it. Just what happens at all these places that don't take your card? you insert the card and the transaction is declined? Perhaps you have a damaged chip or perhaps the link to your bank is down. If it were me, I would have long since have called my bank and requested a replacement card because that is much more likely the problem (although the terminal should say defective chip whether in English or Danish). I would also have long since complained to mc/visa about the willful violation of the merchant's agreements which states merchants must honor and complete transactions for all valid mc/visa card even if that means to call for authorization.

 

I can understand difficulties from time to time with things like automated fuel pumps, automated parking garages, automated tolls. But I find it hard to believe that every merchant you go to with a pos terminal rejects your signature preferred card. It just doesn't add up.

 

I will give you another example. The grocery down the street from me suddenly put up a sign saying identification was required to use a credit card. I think it is never a good idea to show any ID to use a credit card as though while credit card fraud is relatively benign, identity theft is a horse of a different color. A really smart person can memorize the digits of your driver's license as well as your date of birth even from a quick glance and could use that to begin the ball rolling for identity theft. Visa/mc merchant agreements while not prohibiting merchants from asking for ID state unequivocally that merchants cannot fail to complete a transaction if a customer refuses to show ID. After a hassle, I walked out of the store, wrote a letter to visa and a carbon copy to the store. A week later, the sign was down and life returned to normal. If merchants are not following the regs, they should be reported but again if there is a universal problem with use of your US issued card, it is more likely to be something else.

This is a wonderful thread and all new to me. Forgive my ignorance (please!) but how/where would one obtain a "true" PIN & chip card (i.e., one whose PIN cannot be changed) in the U.S.? Thank you!

If by "true" chip and pin card, you mean one where pins are preferred as the card verification method at point of sale terminals inhabited by humans, there are only 3 financial institutions in the USA.

They are first tech fcu, unfcu and sdfcu. The last one only issues a pin preferred card upon specific request.

There are many financial institutions that issue sort of hybrid chip and pin cards. They default to signatures at pos terminals and may request a pin at a kiosk type place. Examples are the cards issued by Barclays Bank USA, USAA, Andrews FCU, Pen FCU.

Almost all cards issued by the giant credit card banks such as Chase, Citibank, Capital One make no provision to use pins for purchases. They will issue you a pin in case you wish to use your card in an ATM for a cash advance but will never request a pin for a purchase.

It is a bit too simplistic to classify pins as to whether they can be changed on line or not. The more proper classification would be online pins as opposed to offline pins. There are banks that issue offline pins, the kinds being referred to here, that can be changed online. In other cases, your pin is sent in a separate mailing and then you can change it upon either written request or through the phone. It's a very complicated issue.

Again there are more important issues for choosing a credit card especially for foreign travel than whether or not it is signature or pin preferred or is signature preferred with pin capabilities. The proper foreign transaction fee which should be 0% but alas many of our near criminal banks gouge people by charging ftf's. The absence of an annual fee should be a factor. The rewards program should be a factors. All of these factors are much more important than the very small chance you might come across a merchant or kiosk willfully violating his or her merchant agreement by not honoring all valid cards, pin or not.

Personally, I have never had one iota of difficulty using my signature preferred cards in Denmark although I have to admit I have not strayed far off the beaten tourist trail. With the Danes sort of committed to becoming pretty much a cashless society a la Sweden, it would seem counterproductive not to honor all credit cards. Or am I missing something?

The bottom line still remains that "true" chip and pin cards are virtually unavailable in the United States. And there are many automated toll roads that simply don't take foreign credit cards chip and pin or not. The problem is not that one would have preferred the USA had not gone off in its own direction on this (like they do in so many other ways) but that pin preferred cards are simply not being provided by the overwhelming majority of financial institutions here. That is where the problem comes in. But the number of such places where there is a problem with non pin preferred cards is not all that great but yes there are, unfortunately some, which if it is any solace is a violations of mastercard/visa regulations although they make little effort to enforce their own rules.

It's the bottom line, folks. The USA banks have decided the losses due to fraud with lost or stolen emv compliant cards will be less than the cost to convert to pin preferred cards. Period. Everything else they say is window dressing. The fact is the American card structure is far larger than elsewhere and Americans tend to carry more cards than most others (we also have far more banks that issue cards here). it can be a pain, not an overwhelming one but a pain nonetheless, to remember which pin goes with which card if you have four or five different cards. In some cases, you can change your pin online or request a specific pin from your bank but not always. It is what it is.

But it is important to remember that while I am not saying it is a pleasant experience, having your credit card hacked is not in and of itself identity theft and relatively benign. You tell the bank which charges are fraudulent, they are immediately removed from the account, a new card is issued with a new number and life goes on. In the USA, and most other places, there is zero liability for fraud and more often than not it is the bank that immediately recognizes the possibility of fraud and contacts you. The biggest pain in all this is changing whatever bills are automatically paid from your account when the new card is issued. For that reason, the possibility of a card account being hacked, the advice is to travel with more than one card.

Finally, the chip cards in the USA comes in different varieties although not as many as Heinz. They are almost universally signature preferred which means that at pos terminals, a signature will be required. The merchant will probably mutter under his or her breath while looking for a pen you will sign, the merchant may actually compare the signature with the signature on the card which is almost never done in the USA anymore and you'll be on your way. Many but by no means all of these signature preferred cards do have provisions for pins at kiosks and automated fuel pumps but many do not depending on your bank. There are very few cards in the USA which are pin preferred so don't bother looking or calling the bank.

On the whole, the American cards will function almost all the time in Europe no matter what you may hear from naysayers. Just make sure your card has no foreign transaction fees and a nice rewards program.

Maybe I'm just missing something. Why, really, would anybody prefer to stay overnight in Southampton when transport is so easy and readily available from London?

Chip cards without a pin will not be useable in most locations in Britain, the smaller units will require a chip/pin to work. Only at maybe a few larger hotels will the chip/signature route be available. As a Brit, can't remember the last time signed for a cc payments. However on a Dutch visit just 2 months back it was still a signature on the slip as well as pin in many places. In UK now a contactless bank debit card is very useful as a means of payment, as more and more people hardly carry cash.

Equally in the Euro zone most costs are whole Euro's and the small coins 1c,2c,5c,10c, etc are less and less used with rounding happening, only if you buy odd loose fruit in a market, supermarket are you likely to use. It's easy to end up with a pocket full of hard to shift small change in Euro zone.

In all due respect, the bold printed statement above is simply not true. Chip and signature cards will work fine 99.9% of the time everywhere in Britain and other parts of Europe. I have never had any problems using a chip and signature card not only at pos locations but in almost all kiosks say of tfl and the National Railroads. Cards issued by different banks in different countries have different lists of card verification methods embedded on the chip. Almost all cards issued by USA banks have signature preference as a cvm ahead of pin. Thus since almost all terminals take signature cards, they will work. Period.

The Republic of Ireland uses the euro. But Northern Ireland is still part of the United Kingdom and use sterling. Are any of the channel islands included on the cruise?

Both Scotland and Northern Ireland merchants and banks sometimes issue banknotes (paper money) that is different than England which although they in theory have the same exact value are sometimes rejected in England as some merchants say in London are not familiar with them but that is a minor problem. The coins are the same throughout the United Kingdom issued by the Royal Mint.

You do not need a pin for your credit card. American credit cards almost universally do not use pins for purchases. You will probably insert the card in the chip reader (by now your card should have the chip) the message will flash signature required, the merchant will probably make a face while he or she searches for a writing utensil but again this is not a problem. Your card should work without trouble in most kiosks although some US cards have provisions for pins in kiosks. It depends on which bank issued your credit card as to whether you can get a pin for those occasions although if the bank does not issue pins, chances are excellent the card will work anyway.

My caveat to you is exchanging small amounts of cash for sterling or euro can become exorbitantly expensive in terms of fees. Credit cards are widely accepted in these countries although the best way to withdraw small amounts of cash is to use an ATM or debit card which doesn't charge fee for foreign withdrawals. Most bank ATM's in this country will not charge a fee for having the nerve to use their ATM's but our near criminal banks often do. Check with your bank.

Sorry I meant Euro...and I give up...The question is not being answered So I will continue to try to find answers somewhere other than Cruise Critic.

In all due respect, what question is not being answered? Can you get foreign currency on ships? Sometimes but it is not a good idea because of lousy rates and the fact there are better way of handling.

Denmark and Sweden are moving in the direction of cashless societies. You will be able to use credit cards there reducing the needs for their local currencies.

Estonia and Finland use the euro but credit cards are widely taken.

Most people take tours in St. Petersburg either with the ship or with private organizations. In almost all cases, the need for Rubles is minimum and the tours operate in such a way that you will be guided to shops that deal with euro or US dollars or sterling.

ATM's are widely available in case one does need local currencies. I don't see what else hasn't been answered.

So do you carry the denominations with you from the U S.??? Suggestion is to have at least some Rubles on you...But don't use a CC in St Petersburg...Same with Estonia and carrying Marks.

 

Bad Rates and NCL states that they cannot supply the ship.

 

U S Banks state that they dont have an answer. So just punt???

You will have precious little opportunity to use rubles in St. Pete. Almost all the tours take you to shops that want western currency or take credit cards. On those tours with lunch included, you might have to use rubles to buy an additional drink.

Estonia uses the euro. Not marks.

I thought I answered that. My experiences have always been that if indeed you can do currency exchange on ships, you get an awful awful rate. And frankly they're not in the business of foeign exchange. Also another factor, You lose big time, usually, when you do it on the ship and use a currency other than the currency of the ship since if the ship operates on US$ and you are exchanging GB£ for say €, they will change £ to $ and then $ to € so you would lose on exchange rates twice.

Bottom line remains if at all possible use a credit card with no foreign transaction fee or an ATM card without fees. Ship should be a very last resort if indeed they have the currency you want.

Currency Question; Can you get Rubles, Euro's Krona and Or Krone from the ship Pursor in exchange for U.S. Dollars???

You usually can with most cruse lines but they give you a horrible rate and thus it is not usually advised. Again, the best way to go is with credit cards wherever possible supplemented by ATM withdrawals. As we have noted here, both Denmark and Sweden are well under way to becoming cashless societies.

I was ready to use my Credit Card, for my Baltic cruise but yesterday I saw a warning post about the dangers of having a hacker hack your credit card, especially in Russia. They only carried cash.

I feel that I would have read it on CC if someone's credit card were compromised, on a cruise or tour.

The poster was anti credit cards and preferred cash.

Credit cards can be hacked any place in the world. They could be hacked just down the street from where you live as easily as when you travel. The possibility of a card being hacked, at least to me, is an absurd reason not to use cards when you travel. But you should have more than one card with you just in case your card either gets hacked or your bank gets suspicious and puts a hold on the card and you only find out if a purchase is declined.

We have T-Mobile service, and they charge 20 cents a minute for calls in the UK, with data free.

Quite true but data is very slow. (Not a problem if you are in a location with wifi).

Take a look at the company Three. Part of their offering is you can use their service in a lot of (but not all) overseas countries out of the UK allowance (i.e. no roaming charges).

Only problem with three is they have no 2g towers in Britain so you need a phone which has at least 3g capabilities. If you want a dirt cheap phone for voice only, 3 might not work. Some have reported difficulties especially with dual sim phones where the second sim in many cases defaults to 2g.

If you don't know what I'm talking about, all I'm saying is you have to be more careful with 3 than with the other British telecoms.

I am told that smart travellers call in at the mobile phone shop at the airport when they land. The spotty kids behind the counter know all about this stuff.

All over London, there are mobile phone shops. One popular chain is Carphone Warehouse which has many many offices. Also each of the networks have many shops on most every street corner. For the most part, the people will have a good general idea of what's available but I still think you might wish to do a bit of your own research by looking at the various web sites. As I said, one big advantage for North Americans in dealing with British sim cards is the language of the web sites is English which is very closely related to American or Canadian.