voyageur9

38 minutes ago, baggal said:

would never stay on board just because 2 ships are scheduled at HMC the same day.  Why give up a day at probably the most beautiful private beach in the Caribbean just because there are a few more people there?  

Well said, baggal, ... although those who do just make it that much nicer for everyone else.

1 hour ago, Copper10-8 said:

Wow! .... I just don't see the big deal

Copper 10-8 is ... absolutely right .... a Betul betul, ... 

Keangkuhan linguistik layak elit imperialis. Turun kuda anda yang tinggi

On 11/17/2018 at 3:57 PM, Hlitner said:

My goodness, do I hear correctly?  You mean somebody is actually suggesting Personal Responsibility?  I thought that was no longer politically correct.

 

Hank

 

 

In the U.S., courts have ruled that cruise lines are common carriers (like mass transit or airlines) which means they owe a special duty of care to paying passengers.

So, whether or not people should/should not take personal responsibility, the burden remains on the common carrier to insure the safety of the paying passenger. I realize every situation is different and I'm not drawing any conclusions about the responsibility or culpability in this incident, nor whether conditions for tendering were marginal.

But it's worth noting that there is a very specific legal burden on common carriers regarding safety which includes variables like weather conditions.

HAL must thrive in the modern commercial world where -- despite the fantasies of some 4-star Mariners -- the truth is contained in the adage: "I work for money, if you want loyalty, buy a dog." Sadly, if you behave like a dog you may get treated like one. 

HAL's calculation is clearly that loyalists will keep wagging their tails and coming back for more. Or at least enough of them will that retailing their 'perks' to new strays will be worth the brouhaha. So the loyalists will be soon be rubbing shoulders with deep-pocketed hoi polloi just as they would in the lifeboats. 

Bet HAL is right

... and HAL confirming to USA Today what is widely known, that an elderly female passenger died after falling into the sea from the ship-side platform being used for tendering. Actual cause of death and what precipitated the fall remain undetermined.

Agreed that it's quite doable if the ship docks on time. Disembark as soon as possible and take a taxi. Chances are good you'll make it. Worst case scenario, you miss it and then have to sort out a later flight or an overnight. But don't opt for the fallback to begin with. Good luck.

And disposing of Prinsendam will -- finally -- put to rest the quaint notion that HAL is anything but a mass market line pitched as an older-than-average demographic. That's not bad. It just is. And Prinsendam and her loyalists tended to skew the image. Anyone looking for the experience of a smaller ship that can reach smaller ports needs to go elsewhere. The Maasdam experiment is, I think, quite different.

.... People expect to go on vacation and enjoy themselves. Not be disturbed by work at night long after a dry dock has taken place.

Absolutely right. But as long as the cheerleaders keep defending HAL and the punters keep paying to vacation in a work zone, the company will keep getting away with it.

Eurodam is one of the two-ship Signature class a derivative using the same basic hull of the slightly older, four-ship Vista class, which includes Osterdam. As an earlier poster mentioned, Eurodam has one additional deck, capacity of 2,100 passengers (200 more than the Vistas) and was built in 2008, five years after Osterdam.

.... and your son might be interested in marinetraffic.com or one of the various similar ship location sites which use GPS and maritime reporting. He could follow the voyages of the Zaandam (and up to four other ships) in his self-selected "fleet" which shows current location as well as previous track and projected route.

.... if you do not go around the island will the Casino still open?

My understanding is that the Casino will be closed while the ship is in Canadian territorial waters (same rule in the U.S) which, if the route is north up the east side of Vancouver (not Victoria) Island and then returning south also on the same east side of Vancouver Island then the casino may be closed throughout. Chances of rough seas are far less than on the west side of the island which is exposed to the Pacific.

Here's a video of 150 people (all young and fit, likely crew) being loaded into a lifeboat on Volendam in

calm weather, daylight and with no one injured, disabled or panicked and the ship moored.

... Why would Italy's maritime authorities have any interest in this incident? Santorini is a Greek island. Westerdam is registered in Rotterdam. Norwegian Spirit is registered in Nassau.

Absolutely right; mea culpa. I was (foolishly) thinking about Costa Concordia where the territorial jurisdiction and the country of registry (Italy) were the same. If (and I don't know) this was even a reportable 'lack of separation' incident, as it would be in aviation, then it would be the sovereign jurisdiction (here Greece, not Italy as a wrongly typed) which would have the lead investigatory responsibility within territorial waters and the 'flag' state or states if the accident/incident occurred on the high seas.

With plenty of caveats and exceptions -- including whether the vessels in this instance were in communication or had pilots or whether there were local rules that superseded -- the over-arching 'right of way,' a concept long followed by mariners and enshrined in the Convention on the International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea, (COLREGs) is the that vessel on the right is the 'stand on' vessel (here Spirit) and should maintain its speed and course while the other vessel (here Westerdam) should alter speed and/or course to avoid. See Rule 17. It may not apply in the Spirit-Westerdam encounter but, in general and when both vessels are under way, the vessel on the right is the 'stand on' vessel. Stay tuned because the close call may result in an investigation by Italian maritime authorities.

... four days from cruising and still no cabin. .... but we rolled the dice and will have to wait.

hope it's a good omen. Our latest assignment was our best upgrade ... from an interior to a verandah.

.... I do not recollect the Westerdam making any sudden movements or taking evasive action to avoid a collision

Appreciate your firsthand recollection and so would also be interested in your view after taking a look at video shot from Spirit at seconds 24 onwards. It evidently shows sudden and powerful wake from Westerdam's forward port thruster in what seems to be an effort to avoid (or minimize risk of) collision.

and a wide-angle view from the Spirit which makes the gap look bigger than it actually is clearly shows Westerdam's bow thruster at full blast (about 25 sec mark) to avoid the collision

Royal Caribbean is using one of its ships to evacuate its own employees

http://www.nbc-2.com/story/36311384/royal-caribbean-using-its-own-cruise-ship-to-evacuate-employees.

Certainly beats hours in crawling traffic

http://www.nbc-2.com/story/36311384/royal-caribbean-using-its-own-cruise-ship-to-evacuate-employees

No bad taste about my speaking up ab out HAL and bad mouthing this circumstance

Hoist on your own petard.

HAL may soon sink in the Sea of Entitlement.

... had stayed in these HC cabins on the diagonal .... the angled balcony doesn't limit view at all. In fact you probably have slightly more balcony space. if you are in in the aft-facing diagonal (i.e. the HC cabins closer to the bow) there is also the advantage of a bit of a windbreak when the ship is moving at cruising speed. Conversely if your cabin has the forward-facing diagonal there may be somewhat more wind as the ship moves. Good cabins, often command a premium

in major north american cities with craiglist and similar, it is often possible to buy Euro coins and/or small bills from those who have small amounts left over from trips. but I agree, for coins alone it hardly seems worth the bother.

Duties may be a little strong. It's a commercial arrangement. You pay for a service which entitles you to that service. In exchange the agent gets a cut of the price. The bigger the price, the more service (including a kickback of OBC etc) you can expect.

All warm-and-fuzzy personal chuminess aside, it's a paid-for service.

And like many broker-intermediaries in an era of easily-available online markets where prices are increasingly transparent; cruise agents may be doomed. Just as retail, storefront, travel agents have almost disappeared (certainly they don't write much airline business) and stock brokers can't rack up ridiculous percentage fees; the value added by cruise agents may be diminishing. Some function as wholesalers in that they block buy from the cruise lines. Others are mere sidelines at bigger businesses.

I suspect few current cruise line travel agents would advise 20-somethings to get into the business which seems likely to disappear. It may not put groceries on anyone's table soon. Ditto real estate agents; at least for commodity housing like 2-bed condos.

Interesting that all three Alaska sailings over the next 72 hours out of Seattle; Eurodam tomorrow, Oosterdam on Sunday, May 14 and Amsterdam on Monday, May 15 are still available. Oosterdam has insides at $399 and the others not much higher. I've snagged $399 fares before (I can't live at home that cheaply) but never quite so close to sailing. Has anyone actually booked 24 hours out. (I know, lots of you won't/don't for your own good reasons but how about those who do.)