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10 hours ago, a.madruga said:

Update just off with PCC to no avail when it comes to new added rule if you have a quad and they needed your off to what ever they have available in your balcony category 

We made it known to PCC that was a bad business decision for those who have or going to have cabins changed only for profit We asked if any chance of grandfathering in since we booked Nov 23 for July 25   NO!!!  Will discuss w. DW tonight and see if we continue on or go elsewhere

Thanks for coming back and updating us.  I am not surprised.  It's astounding to me that HAL continues to hide behind this policy as an excuse for such poor customer service.  It's a short sighted policy that is showing a high level of disregard to not only the passengers that HAL relies on and also long term passengers that have proven over and over again their support for the company.  This poor treatment demonstrates that HAL does not support these passengers.

7 hours ago, julia said:

While you are correct about the onboard spending, it seems rather counterproductive for HAL to offer 3rd & 4th sail free.  That equals MANY more kids (yes, they pay grats & taxes), who are NOT necessarily spending a lot, but yet may CONSUME a lot. (Have you ever seen some teenagers eat?!)

 

From my own personal experience while traveling and knowing the travel practices of many friends and family members, it is more than minor children sailing.  It is quite common today for parents to travel with their adult child(ren).  My sister and BIL still travel with their 23 year old daughter in a shared room, for instance.

Keep in mind also that the more people in a cabin, the more time they spend out of that cabin on the ship and excursions, increasing their onboard spend.  

10 hours ago, atexsix said:

Apparently it is worth it to them.  I felt sorry for the cruise lines during the pandemic.  But not anymore.  Like most industries the bean counters upstairs that have probably never set foot on a ship are the ones making the rules now.  It's fine with me, there are plenty of 5 star land based resorts that'll gladly take my money, solo or otherwise.

That is how we think also.  Lots of other options.  We will be going to another 5 star boutique hotel in a couple of weeks.  We have discovered that we enjoy them so much more than our cruises.  We get far better service, better food and better hotel accommodations and amenities all for a lower cost per day than cruising.

52 minutes ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

....

 

Now, the choice is in two steps--no frills or promo. Next step, whichever option you selected, is where HAL shows the price difference between guarantee and choice.  Somehow, that makes the cost of choosing feel more expensive. I wonder if HAL has done this to make people less inclined to spend the money on cabin choice. The more guarantees they sell, the more control they keep over where people are placed on the ship.

This is exactly why they are doing it.  HAL wants to flexibility to place passengers to maximize the number of passengers sailing.  Cruise lines right now are not aiming for 100% capacity, they want capacity far in excess of 100%.

I get the reason why - it's profit driven.  Cruise line profits are made from on board spending and the more people onboard the higher the onboard spend.  I also understand the 20/80 rule of business.  20% of your customers provide 80% of your profits.  In this day of analytics it's easy to find those 20% of customers that you need to focus on.  It may be humbling to accept that the majority of us are most likely in the 80% category.  It doesn't mean though that you ignore us or the you treat us poorly and this is what this policy feels like.  Luckily, we have other options.

1 hour ago, gizmodog said:

I am so upset over this policy, I always choose my cabin and usually pay the extra price for doing so, I never look to see the occupancy as that has never been an issue in the past. I currently have 4  cruises booked with Holland having picked my cabin for all 4.

we re travelling with 3 other couples who have also picked their cabin. So in total we have 4 cabins booked for 4 different cruises.

we are all in a quandary now as this new policy seems very unfair to passengers picking their own cabin for location not how many people it holds.

cruising is becoming too hard to even book these days with all the rules and regulations.

i hate to cancel my vacations but do not want to be moved to a cabin of their choice either!

I understand completely.  For us, a bad cabin location is a bad cruise.  I suffer from motion sickness and while I have been lucky so far and never experienced it on a cruise ship, part of that I believe has to do with us selecting mid ship cabins.  

When we first started cruising we embraced guarantee cabins.  We were lucky and got some really good upgrades and it was fun to wait to see what cabin would be assigned.  It was great until it wasn't when one cruise we were further aft than I would have liked.  The next cruise we took a chance again and ended up further forward than I ever would have picked and the motion of the ship was quite challenging on that cruise.  From that point onward we decided if we are cruising we are booking our specific cabin and location.  All cruises since we have selected our specific cabin and marked each one as "Do Not Upgrade."  It now seems to sail with HAL we can only do that for an even smaller number of cabins which greatly reduces our options and hence reduces our chances of sailing.

I've recently viewed some video reviews of Emerald River Cruises and in the videos it appears that they have more 2 tops available than any other cruise line I have researched.  May be an option.

It is Ship Inventory that manages Club Orange selections.  It is also Ship Inventory that will decide to move you should they need your cabin for a party of four.

If I were in your position I would simply cancel now.  My thinking is that there is a reason that the email was sent beyond the FYI notifying me that there is a chance that it will happen.  My thinking is that there is a very good chance and as final payment is approaching there is now an out.  Once final payment passes options are very limited.

Like others, I find it disingenuous of HAL to accept payment for an upgraded cabin and location and then to move you without notice.  This policy contradicts the Club Orange program.  HAL appears to think that moving you to a cabin in the same category is sufficient, but it isn't as the Club Orange program allows you to select the category and location of your cabin.  HAL is well aware that the location of a cabin is paramount for many passengers as a cabin's location is a key driver of a cabin's category and pricing.

I written it previously on CC and nothing has yet changed - HAL is making it much too difficult to book a cruise.

3 hours ago, forevercruising1 said:

I don’t know — it is likely.  Since we booked with the Future Cruise Consultant onboard in December, 2023, we didn’t think our cabin selections would be in jeopardy.  We always mark “Do not upgrade” in our bookings, so we are used to actually getting to sail in the cabins we select and pay for; now that HAL is changing its policies and not honoring us as “grandfathered in,” it is very likely that we will make other vacation plans.  — Very frustrating now that we have finally earned Three Star.

The unfortunate thing is that early booking doesn't provide any assurance as HAL can put any cruise that may not be selling well under any promotion it wants to try and get more people onboard.  The goal is to have occupancy above 100% as the more people sailing the higher the onboard spend.

For us, this is yet another poor policy and another reason why we don't have any cruises booked with HAL right now.  We have turned elsewhere for our travel plans.

9 hours ago, Seasick Sailor said:

 

Sharon, our awesome PCC said a cabin change must go through her before a cabin change can be made. I have her email stating such.

I am not doubting that you have an email from your PCC stating this.  I simply want to point out that the OP has stated that the move occurred and their PCC was unaware of the move and was not even contacted let alone go through them.  I would think that moves like this are made by Ship Inventory and do not involve a PCC at all.

5 hours ago, sjde said:

Getting back to the tipping issue,  if the first and last days are half days ,

I count them as one full day for tipping.

 

Since I started this post,  we have taken a Viking cruise- last year Christmas markets from Prague to Paris . I don’t think we ‘d take another one. One of the biggest appeals for us for river cruising is the fact that you can just walk off the ship and be right in a small town and you can walk on and off at will . But with a lot of our ports on this cruise we were docked far away from the city and had to take a long bus ride in . It was VERY  cold and we had three or four hours on our own to shop or eat or whatever and we  we had to wait for the bus;  we ‘d have preferred to be able to walk on and off the boat at will . I don’t know if all their itineraries are like this  or if they’re trying to save money by docking further out or what. They own their buses. 

You've described our experience in June on the Rhine with Avalon.  We also were looking forward to walking right off the ship into the small towns and exploring.  It didn't happen.  It was bus after bus after bus.

Just tonight my DW and I were discussing whether or not we will ever take another river cruise.  My DW explained how we spent way too much time in transit on the river cruise.  There was no case of going from Point A to Point B.  Instead, it was dock close to Point A, take a bus to Point A, walk around for a few hours, take a bus back to Point A and then take the ship and sail to a dock close to Point B and start it all over again.  We were excited that we were overnighting in Amsterdam and even there we were docked so far away that it was take a bus into the city.  Our previous visit to Amsterdam was to board an ocean cruise and we stayed in a hotel downtown and walked to the canal cruise instead of bussing to it like we did on our river cruise.  We much preferred our previous Amsterdam cruise.

I think part of the problem is over tourism on the rivers.  Just too many cruise ships and many places are pushing the ships to dock in industrial areas.  We heard loud and clear from tour guides to please be respectful and mindful that the residents of the towns we are visiting are the people actually paying taxes and trying to live their lives.  Over tourism is an issue for ocean cruises and river cruises.

HIA doesn't work for us either.  Knowing thought that cruise line profits are earned from onboard spending and not cruise fares then it makes sense that they offer these amenities to entice people to spend more.  It's how they will increase their profits.

And it seems to be working.  HIA appears to be very popular with many HAL cruisers.  The cruise lines have reported that they have been successful in attracting a lot of first time cruisers and new to the brand cruisers who are eager to purchase these pre-paid bundled amenities.  The cruise industry is quickly transitioning to the ship being the destination and there certainly seems to be a business case for the cruise lines to be operating as an all-inclusive floating resort.  

My fear and my experience has shown though that the more popular that these amenities become the poorer the experience becomes onboard.  Long waits to get service becomes the norm.  Menus in speciality dining venues are slashed and more and more upcharge items are added.  I am thinking of Tamarind, for instance.  The menu now is but a shadow of what it was when the restaurant first appeared.  And please, the drink packages?  My DW and I rarely drink and when we do our cocktail of choice is Bombay Sapphire Gin.  We of course get the one drink free Mariner ticket when we sail.  On our last 2 cruises we ordered our Bombay Sapphire Gin cocktail and I don't know what atrocious substance they put in the glass, but I can assure you it wasn't Bombay Sapphire Gin.  

I have learned that there are 2 lessons that the universe sends to me when I am travelling:

1.  How to truly live in the moment and have fun.  I am always amazed at how easy it is for me to live in the moment when I am travelling versus adopting that philosophy when I am not, and

2.  How to be tactful and resilient with the disruptions that may be thrown in my path, whether it be from plan disruptions like delayed or cancelled flights, poor service or people just behaving badly.  

On 8/13/2024 at 2:40 AM, Canal archive said:

Breckski that’s just  so very very  rude what you have described shows how ignorant some people are. Wherever you are you cannot condone this. I suspect as well that if someone - heaven help us - tried to explain they wouldn’t come anywhere near to understanding. Apart from anything else having to forfeit the rest of your meal is just not on! 

I agree, it is very rude.  People are people and of course you can run into rude people everywhere on your journeys.  When you are on a river cruise and you run into them the challenge is the small spaces and numerous bus tours make it difficult to avoid them.  

On our Avalon river cruise in June we had a group travelling together with 2 men in their 60s who believed being annoying was funny and a badge of honour.  It was obvious attention seeking behaviour as even their wives would tell other cruisers if you give them attention they will not stop.  I won't go into detail of the types of behaviour only to state that if you had children behaving the way these grown men did you would correct the children immediately.  One fellow cruiser told me he learned from previous river cruises to always bring noise cancelling headphones on river cruises.  Great advice.  🙂  

HAL, like most cruise lines, have included dining and optional, paid dining known as speciality dining.  

You are sailing on the Rotterdam, so the following dining options are included in your fare:

1.  The Lido Market (otherwise known as the buffet),

2.  The Main Dining Room,

3.  Dive In (Burger Joint),

4.  New York Pizza, and 

5.  Room Service.

Some of these venues will have additional charge items on their menus and it will be clearly shown.  For instance, the Room Service menu allows you to order an All American Breakfast as complimentary yet Steak and Eggs is $15.  You can order a Dive In Burger via the app and go and pick it up when ready or you can order a Dive In Burger via room service and the charge is $5 per item.  

These dining options are also available for an additional charge:

1.  The Pinnacle Grill (the Steakhouse),

2.  Morimoto By the Sea (a Pop-up),

3.  Gelato,

4.  Nami Sushi,

5.  Rudi's Sel de Mer

6.  Tamarind, and 

7.  Canaletto

8.  The Grand Dutch Cafe (food is complimentary, drinks are not).

There is a basic charge for some of the speciality restaurants and if you view the menus you will see that there are some items that have an additional charge.  HAL has introduced lots of ways to get you to spend more on their ships.

I'm sure if I have missed something another kind poster will point it out.  

Here's the link to the HIA Early Booking Bonus Promotion.  I understand that reading the fine print is not enjoyable, yet, as HAL does change the terms for HIA, reading the terms and conditions prior to booking can be helpful:

https://www.hollandamerica.com/en/ca/cruise-deals/have-it-all-early-booking-bonus?ICID=INTHWEB202405028NKRKXT397

In a nutshell:

1.  Speciality dining for 7 day cruise is one night in select restaurants,

2.  You do not need to pay gratuities at meals,

3.  It includes the Elite Beverage Package.  

Details are in the link above in the terms and conditions.

We sailed with Avalon in June on the Vista and the dining room did have 2 tables for 2 on each side of the dining room.  We managed to get one of these most nights except for the Captain's Gala Dinner and the last night of the cruise in which we didn't dine in the dining room.

You will need to hustle to get one of these tables as they are taken quickly.  Our cruise was only at 75% capacity and we made sure we were one of the first to enter the dining room.  For the Captain's Gala Dinner we sat in the long banquet of tables on one side as noted above.  The tables are technically tables for 2, but are so close that they operate as tables for 4.  Luckily as the cruise unfolded less and less people were dining in the dining room and even though we sat at the banquet line there wasn't anyone in the table next to us so it was a 2 top for us that evening.

The virtual tours online for Avalon are nice but they aren't precise.  For the Vista, for instance, they show a tour of the Envision and the ships aren't exact.  The location of the shower stack in the cabins on the Vista is different than on the Envision.  The dining room on the Envision doesn't show the 2 tables for 2 and it shows the long banquet of tables being spaced much further apart than they are on the Vista.  So view the virtual tours with caution.

FYI - I did provide a review of our Avalon cruise and do not recommend Avalon due to the poor service and food that we encountered on the ship.  YMMV.

45 minutes ago, oakridger said:

 

I have never seen Rudy's open for breakfast.  Are you sure you ate there?  If so, which ship please?

 

~Nancy

The Koningsdam.  It isn't "open" per se.  We were lead there from the Club Orange dining room so it was made available for those of us with Club Orange.  

Our experience is that HAL’s speciality dining suffers from HAL’s overall service philosophy in that it is consistently inconsistent.

We’ve had exceptional dining experiences in the PG and we’ve had disappointing experiences, not only from different ships but also on the same ship on the same sailing.

We have always had an excellent experience with Tamarind.  It saddens us though that the menus have been reduced so much and now offer a very limited variety.

Overall we have enjoyed our experiences at Canelleto.

Our experience at Rudi’s wasn’t great and we will not return.  We even had breakfast there one morning instead of CO and will never do that again.

With CO, our first cruise experience was exceptional.  When we sailed the second time though in the same ship all the crew had changed and it wasn’t as stellar as our first experience.  
 

2 hours ago, terrydtx said:

....

 

Last year after we got off the Celebrity Apex in Athens, we flew to Santorini for 5 days in a suite only hotel with a butler that brought us breakfast every morning and wine with appetizers in the afternoons. Our 1000 sq ft suite had a private hot tub on our balcony, and we had a beautiful view of the Caldera and all the cruise ships visiting every day. The meals we enjoyed there were way better than any in the Apex Luminae. The Hotel, food and drinks cost us per day about half of what the Sky Suite cost per day.

We had a similar experience last year.  We sailed to Alaska in a NS and after the cruise we had our TA book 3 nights in the Four Seasons in Whistler in a 1 bed, 2 bath suite.  The hotel, food and drinks was also about half what we paid on our cruise and it far surpassed the cruise ship's experience.

We also had our TA book us into the US Grant in San Diego for 3 days prior to our Pacific Coastal cruise last year.  The stay in a Grand Deluxe Room with food and drinks was a little less than the cost of the verandah with CO that we sailed on the cruise, yet far surpassed anything that we received on the ship.  

45 minutes ago, TRLD said:

Maybe less than you think in Switzerland. It is our favorite country to visit and spend time in, but a bit pricey.  We spend time there every other year.

 

A pasta meal that cost 10 Euro in Northern Italy cost 30 Swiss Francs once you cross the boarder (at that time the exchange rate for the franc and the Euro was similar.

We were in Switzerland in June so well aware of the costs.

22 minutes ago, terrydtx said:

That may be true but when we cruise it is in better suites or verandah cabins, just like we prefer to fly FC or BC. We are also very picky on hotels and prefer 3 to 5 star name brands like Hilton, Marriott or Hyatt. Our Vista Suite on the Volendam next week for 11 days with the HIA is $382pp per day or $762 total per night for both of us. We are staying 3 nights in Quebec City after the cruise in a 5 star hotel for $371 per night.

We also travel much the same way.  Our 5 star hotel stays in suites cost less than many balcony cabins on HAL.  When the '26 European Season was released I priced a 7 day Norway cruise.  It was more than $1800 a day CDN for a Neptune Suite.  We can enjoy a lot of great hotel rooms and great food for $1800 a day.

7 hours ago, sambamama said:

There is way more value in land vacations than cruises now, especially if you are solo and traveling in budget countries. Even without A HIA package, solo supplements are almost always 100% , and I've never seen them less than 80% on HAL. Its true that the name hotels are higher than before, but there are non name equivalents just as nice and cheaper. I haven't missed my cruises. 

We are not solo cruises and we also feel there is way more value in land vacations than cruises right now.  We are trending to more and more land based travelling as for us, we get much more for less money per day cruising.

We don't have any cruises booked right now.  My DW has made it quite clear that she hasn't any interest in getting on a ship anytime in the near future.  We did our first river cruise in June as an alternative to river cruising.  We add a short 3-day pre-cruise land based add-on and we enjoyed that more than the river ship experience.  We don't regret that we took the river cruise.  We are though one and done.  Again, value for what we paid wasn't there.  We were expecting much, much more than what we received.

And so, we have 2 more land based vacations booked this year.  We are looking at a land based vacation to Switzerland next year.  We also don't miss cruising.

6 hours ago, 510picker said:

My experiences calling HAL in recent years have been less than helpful, and that's putting it nicely. I will just look at outside insurance options instead of calling and getting no where.

I understand completely.  My recent experience is that sadly, HAL makes it really difficult to book a cruise.

With dynamic pricing HAL doesn't release all cabins at the same time.  When you are sailing one of the advantages of booking online is the on ship cruise specialist has access to all cabins.

I am Canadian.  $300 pp/pd for a balcony cabin would be cheap for us.