Beachdude

To suggest just to go somewhere else really can be disheartening for some who are loyal customers; it seems the company is saying 'to bad for you' and you are being kicked to the curb.

Disheartening is a good description and I have little patience for folks who lash out as bUU has.

Most of us here have some amount of emotional passion for cruising. Lucky for us this forum provides an outlet to express that passion with like minded friends. Cruising is just fun to talk about.

The problem is that sometimes posters comments attack our passion and it hurts because we have so much emotion tied up in it. Our instinct is to react by attacking back. Luckily most of us have enough pragmatic sensibility to balance the emotion instinct so that we don't react to every single comment that strikes at our passion.

But not everyone has the maturity to control their emotion. I actually feel sympathy for members here who consistently react by lashing out every time they feel offended by a post. If they lack the maturity to control their emotions of cruising, imagine how well they deal with the hard stuff like work, marriage, and raising kids. As much as they struggle here on the forum, this might just be the happiest place of their life.

Burt

I'm trying to read comments from people in response to Strophic's new, on-topic question. How about you?

No, the beeping horn of you backing up is distracting me. I am trying to focus back to the discussion though. With fingers in ears: la la la.........

Burt

How about sticking to the topic?

LoL. Hypocrisy is a reactionary defense of those who find themselves painted in a corner.

Burt

Actually, I chose to provide information and industry context. You chose how to respond.

 

Regardless, the question remains: Why won't you cruise on a brand that actually provides what you want?

Actually you responded to my post, if you only you wanted to provide industry information, I should have been left out of it. But let's move on.

Why do you assume I don't make choices that fit my vacation desires? And why does how I choose my vacations matter?

Burt

You're taking business way too personally, punctuated by the fact that you're blaming me, a random nobody on the Internet, for what you feel a cruise line has done to you.

Personal? It's just facts. You choose how to respond.

Burt

It is funny Burt, but it is not funny at the same time. I really hope that this won't happen. I really think the MDR is a large part of the cruise experience that i enjoy.

I can only guess at how this will happen, but the change will likely be a gradual process that you will find acceptable. For example, look at how MDR lunches have changed in the last ten years with salad bars and dessert bars. Can drink bars, bread bars, or coffee bars be far behind? It will feel OK because you will still have your friendly table waiter, just not as much.

Burt

I think it is a mistake to overlook how the cruise lines have been growing luxury brands that specifically foster those traditional cruise amenities. The industry is broadening, so the product is differentiating into vertical market segments. If you like the traditional cruise amenities, simply choose the cruise lines that the industry is now offering that have those amenities. CCL, for example, has Seabourn.

Ah, "it's my vacation". It's easy to brush off folks loyal to a brand as stubborn or single minded, but the brand should at least be honest in their vision.

Cruise lines developed a following from their previous experiences. I might agree with you if Cruise Line "A" marketed their future changes to attract a different demographic customer. But they don't, they instead make a lot of small changes that lead to a different product down the road. My guess they are hoping the customers who paid for one product gradually get used to the new product. You are an example that it works for some customers. But, you are being unfair to loyalist who feel betrayed by an unloyal company.

Burt

I hope this isn't happening. I do not want to pay for a speciality restaurant. I like the MDR i enjoy the service and being waited on i do not want to go through a line to pick up my dinner. I will actually reconsider my vacationing by cruise ship if this practice is ever implemented on any ship or cruise line . As you can see i have cruised most of my adult life more than once a year . This would be terrible if they charge for MDR or they take away table service for a so called upscale restaurant for which you pay extra. BOO:evilsmile:;p

Well get ready to be called names by the "it's my vacation" loyalist.

The cruise lines have been chipping away traditional cruise amenities for over 15 years. You are just finding your tipping point.

On the bright side, contentious forum discussions of MDR dress codes will likely go away because there won't be any.

Burt

So agree with cell phone only use mine on a ship is for photos. I'm more than fine about political questions but no matter how we changed the subject we ended up back to it. So we did asked to be moved to a table for two. This up and coming trip will be table for two! And I love to chat with people but not wanting that to happen again!

 

 

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I can see this happening with my retired dad. All he wants to do is talk politics, so the family plays dodge grandpa at all our gatherings.

Burt

Can never understand the need to rush a meal, unless one is desperate to get to a show. The idea of getting in and out of the mdr in less than an hour, even when eating as a couple, makes no sense. Choosing from the menu, making a choice of wine, savouring the food and drink, needs to be savoured and enjoyed. Who wants to stuff down a 4 course meal and drink half a bottle of wine in 40 minutes?

We agree wholeheartedly. We enjoy our evening meal as social event, not a gas-n-go fill-up. But it's not the American way. Which is why many believe that the Cruise industry is going toward switching out the MDR to a high end buffet. Buffets require less staff and a better process for the eat and go lifestyle. Specialty restaurants are provided to passengers willing to pay extra for a meal at a leisure pace with elegant service.

Burt

We have done this many ways, but rarely will it cost less than $80 no matter how you do it. Personally we have started renting a car to have a little more freedom of moving around. The car rentals generally have a shuttle to the ship and visa versa. And strangely the rental doesn't cost all that much more than a shuttle.

Burt

Don't strap native plants, flowers or tree branches onto your hair and clothing either because this is what real camouflage is about.

Fake camo?:confused:

Burt

I think this subject is always interesting. I guess some folks assume that new members automatically know all the old subjects. Things change, so an occasion review is good for the forum.

I was shopping for shorts yesterday and noted how popular camo patterns are still popular and stylish. I was even surprised to see a few people wearing camo in Europe on the Rick Steves show.

Burt

Forums are not social media?

Burt

Most mass market lines will be fairly similar and many things about a sailing are subjective. Try something by ship, itinerary and value and not name brand.

I agree. Ships and on board programs are the only differences between the lines today. A little research to learn about ships on each line would help guide you to finding a different experience for your style of cruising.

Burt

I also wonder whether this will cause the "light" drinkers to drink a lot more (b/c they have the package) or more folks to drink less (b/c they forego the package and pay by the drink)?

I made a fool of myself the first time we had a drinking package several years ago. I was too focused on trying to get my moneys worth and ended up drunk in front of our table mates. That was a lesson learned. Don't change your drinking habits to make up the difference in cost. You could make some memories that you'd rather forget.

The only reason I get the package now is because I enjoy the better more expensive top shelf Scotch. If RCI takes them off the package, I will have no need to purchase the package.

Burt

The WORD around the ship on our last cruise was floating around at 5 minutes. We never ordered alcohol that fast anyway.:halo:

I have, sometimes I try something new and it taste terrible. I never had a problem sending it back for my usual Scotch. :o

I guess I'm one who abused the drink package, but I wasn't taking advantage of the alcohol. Sometimes Sally would forget her coke card, so I ordered one from my package. I guess we are being punished now. This was even big news on USA Today.

Burt

Biker, who thinks that traditional dining has a much better chance to be killed by ideas like DD, than specialty dining.

The theory is that traditional dining will be replaced with a nice buffet for the 80% of the passengers who don't want to pay extra. Additional specialty restaurants for those who are willing to pay extra for an upscale experience.

As for Chops, we always go and I don't know why. For the price, the service is as disappointing as the food quality. Chops, ten years ago was a special, if not memorable experience, but not today. The service in the MDR is more often better.

By the way, steaks from Chops can be ordered in the MDR.

Burt

One can quickly get a bad impression because somebody pressed the wrong button..but if you keep an open mind you might well find that your initial impression was completely wrong.

 

Hank

Shesh, what a strange thread. Thank you Hank for the enjoyable post of your experience. As you were relaying your experiences with strangers at the MDR table, I was reminded that made many friends in the next cabin. We typically meet them on the balcony while leaning on the rail as we entered or departed ports. The discussion starts with a simple hello and many times one thing leads to another.

I look back on our chance meetings with folks on the ship and feel rewarded to learn of interesting life experiences. One couple has an RV for a home. They travel from port to port in the US and cruise between their drives. They have no kids an have been living like this for 20 years. Imagine the books they could write of their experiences. The husband of another couple from Holland had the life expectancy of a year, so they were cruising around the world while he was writing books. He was very spiritual. How can you meet someone like that and not just sit and listen. The simplicity of the words I write here appears to describe a sad situation, but in reality they are inspiring to us even now. We are blessed to sat at their dinner table.

What I find very fascinating is that if the discussion goes long enough, you will likely find some common connection with most people either by your job, relatives, friends or hobbies. That is typically fun, but not all folks like to get that close. Turns out that one family at our specialty dining table last October lives three blocks from our home. One would think that would lead to all kinds of topics, but not this family. They were a very pleasant chatty family with polite young kids, but when they learned that we live so close, they got very quiet. A bit awkward, but the other family at the same table from New Jersey were outgoing and enjoyable. When they saw we knew how to use chop sticks, they asked us to teach them. Aren't people interesting.

Of course some folks aren't interesting and maybe even a little off putting. We just quietly move on.

It is interesting how some folks on this thread are offended by the word antisocial. It's perplexing to me. I have learned from behavior experts that people are either naturally extroverted or introverted. But we would not know which by a chance meeting because humans learn to compensate. In fact, most people don't know themselves. Even though someone expresses extroverted behavior in the group, they may just be compensating for their introverted tendency. They don't even know that because they are the fun person in the room. Apparently comedians are generally introverted. The way a person can tell which type of person they are is by how they feel after being around other people. I am told that extroverts feed off the energy of people around them while introverts are drained of energy.

If this discussion has done nothing else, it has helped me reflect back on some really good chance experiences from meeting total strangers. While I know we met some folks we couldn't wait to forget, memories of them don't stand out.

Being naturally introverted, may I suggest enjoying the people you meet without feeling obligated to contribute. Just quietly listening with smile is a bold gift. And, being one who has learned to compensate for my shyness, take heart in the memories you may have created for long lives of others that had the pleasure of meeting you. Long after the passing of the passenger with only one year to live, my spirit has been lifted hundreds of times as I reflect at our dinner discussions.

Burt

I do not enjoy being the topic of conversation. I'm a woman and I definitely do not follow your description. I enjoy my solo journeys. I don't take tours unless it is someplace that is not feasible to go solo. I have no problems getting a solo table at any restaurant I visit when I travel. If I'm flying any distance, I'll use my miles and fly Business and have my own pod. Otherwise, my noise-cancelling headphones are on as soon as I'm on the plane. If I go to a bar, I get my drink, sit and drink my drink and that's it. It's just me. When I'm on vacation, I just want to enjoy myself and not have to ask or answer "how was your day", "that's so interesting", "I did...". I have to engage that kind of banal conversation day in and day out at work with my guests.

Thanks for the reply. I'm humbled you took the time to read my post. Still, I believe every word of those thoughts are true.

Burt

Personally, as a solo, I was totally turned off of assigned seating or asking to be seated at a larger table. It was like a pack of hyeanas going after a carcass sometimes - "ooh, why are you by yourself", "you couldn't find someone to come with you", "you poor thing", "you are so brave to travel alone", "how can you do any touring along", "weren't you afraid to visit Pisa alone", etc. I did not enjoy being the major topic of conversation...

I totally understand, but some folks flourish on being the topic of conversation. People actually find other people interesting and want to learn more. And how would feel about meeting someone who also traveled Pisa. You would likely find me more curious than I like because we a planning a trip to Pisa next year. Different strokes for different folks.

I find that women tend to want a group for dinner while the males tend to be indifferent or rather not. But it's the same thing when taking tours with groups and sitting bars or theaters for entertainment. Even next to an airline passenger during a four hour flight. The odds are travelers and vacationers will be forced to be forced in close grouping with strangers several times during a trip. Dinner is just one of those experiences during a typical day.

I've never met a group that expected us to pray with them, but after reading some of the posters here who appose it, I would be more nervous of diners who can't control how they express their opinions. And that's really what it comes down to; just being polite during the time we are around each other.

Burt

We had over three hours on our trip last October on the Oasis. Couple hours on the beach then lunch in town. St. Johns is one of the most beautiful islands in the Caribbean, so it's a good trip.

Burt

My first experience with sea-going dining was at a common table in a U S Navy wardroom. The rule at dinner was to avoid sex, politics and religion - made sense then, and still seems applicable.

I wonder what previous experience motivated the "sex" part.:o

Burt

Hey how about you guys quit your bellyaching about praying and get back to my original question. It's established that group prayers are in the DISLIKE category so lets move on.

Finally, thanks.

Burt

The current US President is doing what he can to get many to agree that he's scum, regardless of party affiliation. No debate there.

 

Let's sit at this table honey, these youngsters look nice. :')

Burt