Mura

We did the China trip with Viking in May '08 and it was a class act. Excellent guides. (Each group of 30 thought they had the best guide.)

Hotels also excellent. The group dinners before shows were rushed and okay food, but still worth it for the experience. The Shanghai a show was beyond fabulous.

The Viking ships were new at the time and far more comfortable than the European boats.

My only real complaint was that I wished they gave us more time in Shanghai. The time in Beijing -- 4 days as I recall -- was sufficient. But Shanghai was short.

Mura

We were on that April 2012 Viking cruise in France with Jan, and I have to say we weren't as upset as she was. (I didn't try the shrimp cocktail!)

But we did agree that Viking -- which we really liked in Oct 2003 -- was no longer the wonderful experience we remembered.

It is true that our 3 river boat experiences were with Viking: Oct 2003, Amsterdam-Basel; May 2008, China; April 2012 France (B2B). The first two were most enjoyable, especially China.

Yes, they give you large group walking tours for the most part. Some people have talked about long bus trips from one dock to another ... I have to say that we did have that experience a very few times, but it was not typical. Depending on where you are, it CAN happen. But none of our three riverboat cruises was that the norm.

In China, we were in large buses ... limited to about 30 people per bus. All the guides were wonderful. But there was a lot of driving around in China, obviously.

I think on our Amsterdam-Basel trip we had one bus trip from one port to the next. I don't recall this happening with the Viking France trip.

That MAY be because we opted to take the "Canadian" tour to the Beaches because we had done Normandy on our own back in 2002 and we wanted to return to the Bayeux Tapestry. This visit was on the Canadian tour but not on the US tour. And we were only 5-6 people.

Generally, we've had good walking tours and these days they use the earphones so that you don't have to be on top of the guide in order to hear what he/she is saying. Yes, I agree, larger groups than I would like but generally we've had excellent guides.

Our biggest objection on the French trip was that the river is now so terribly crowded. And I know Laraine wouldn't like this part! In at least half of the ports on the Rhone and Seine Rivers we were double or triple parked, and we were always on the outside. So we had to walk over to the neighboring boats to get to shore. And our top level cabin became worthless because often our view was of the neighboring cabin, not of the shore.

I was nursing a cold one day so I skipped the walking tour of Rouen since we'd been there for three days on our land trip years earlier, and I heard the captain saying that there are now 1,000 boats on the Danube....

I would say that the overcrowding (given the vast expansion of boats now on the rivers) is the worst problem. A river boat experience 10 years ago was much more pleasurable.

By the way, the first river boat on Jan's 2012 cruise was the same one we were on in 2003. Now it had internet, which it did not have in 2003. But dinners were INTERMINABLE! They weren't back in 2003. The same number of passengers, but lots more wait staff. Five servers cannot serve 150 for dinner, especially with a tiny galley, in a reasonable amount of time. So it appears that Viking, at least, is now cutting corners.

We won't do another riverboat experience either, although we HAVE enjoyed them in the past.

Mura

Caviargal,

We've never had a problem getting additional reservations when we wanted them -- but then, we tend not to want them! We're usually in a PH, as well, although occasionally we've been in higher suites. That really hasn't seemed to matter.

A lot does depend on how many of your fellow passengers want the specialty restaurants. I know people who refuse to dine in the GDR and others (like us) who don't really care that much for the specialty restaurants. These days we go at least once to the available restaurants, but we don't always try for more. In fact, usually we do not. There HAVE been cruises when we didn't use ANY of our available reservations. (We do have a fondness of Jacques on the O ships so we will try for extras there.)

Since your previous posts seem to indicate you have flexibility, I find your lack of luck even more surprising.

But here's one way ... I'm not necessarily recommending this as a procedure! We were dining in Polo with friends last year on Regatta and the staff was going out of its way to ask if everything was fine. The maitre d' came by. The waiter asked. The busboy asked! My husband finally had enough and complained (after about six such inquiries). Not only because of the constant questions, but because something hadn't been quite right with our dinner.

As a result the maitre d' called and gave us and our friends another reservation ... they went, we didn't. (They are a couple who absolutely refuse to eat in the GDR because they once had a true disaster of a meal. so they only do Terrace or the specialty restaurants.)

Mura

Do you care to give us a hint as to which cruise you are on?

Are you looking for a specific cabin level or willing to accept anything? One way to monitor availability is to go to the website and "look for a cruise". Just look for the one you want.

If you see that all levels are booked or have waiting lists, the odds probably aren't very good. If it's close to the sailing date, the odds probably are not good. If the cruise is a year off, who knows?

It's really hard to advise, at least in my opinion. Sometimes a particular cruise sells very quickly but another one with a similar itinerary does not.

Ditto to what Lyn said. However, just because Oceania doesn't shine with the after dinner shows (in general, but we have seen some we did enjoy) -- well, that doesn't mean there's nothing else!

There is, in fact, lots of music during the day depending on where you are.

And you can certainly dance at night if you wish. (We don't, I just have heard ...)

Mura

I'm backtracking to the earlier question ... we usually book our own air, but we have ON OCCASION used the cruiseline's air. When we do, we take a deviation. Our experience with O's air (bearing in mind that we fly from NYC) has been excellent connections. (When we first sailed on Renaissance and heard the stories from passengers who'd used the cruise air -- they had absolutely nightmare connections. I've never encountered that with O.)

Would we if coming from a non-gateway city? Maybe.

When we did the Auckland-Sydney cruise in Jan '08 we flew first to L.A. and spent a few days with family. Then we flew in premium economy on Air New Zealand for a very reasonable fare. (Those were the best seats I've had on any airline.) When we returned, we spent a few more days in L.A. before returning to NY. There's no way I'd fly straight through to NZ or Australia from NYC!

Bear in mind that while O has a reasonable refund if you opt out of their "free" air - it used to be much better, I have to admit - if you want to upgrade to business, it's super expensive and not necessarily business all the way.

If you are flying over water, you'll be in business. But if you have a leg over land, you'll be in coach ... and for super premium prices. My personal experience has been that if I'm seeking business air fares I'm just about always better off booking my own -- UNLESS you are lucky enough to be on one of those cruises where they have deeply discounted bizair. But that doesn't happen often.

We are using O's bizair from London to NYC in June because we only need one-way fare, and that is very difficult to find on your own. For $2000 pp it's reasonable. But on our Nov/Dec 2013 cruise (flying to Barcelona and returning from Rio), we booked our own using FF miles.

Mura

My last comment because clearly further conversation is fruitless.

You seem to be painting everyone with the same brush. Sure, there are people who are as you describe.

There are others who are not.

Mura

Okay, and I do spend for premium economy and biz air these days. I didn't when I was younger.

But not everyone can afford the extra bucks.

No need for a war just because we seem to disagree.

Mura

Ducklite,

Do bear in mind that many of us (even the overweight ones) are complaining more about pitch between rows than we are about the width of the seats.

But I saw the report on how well people slept in 18" seats as opposed to the 17" seats, and the people I saw were a "normal" size. Some were tall, but none were fat as far as I could tell -- it was a brief scene. However, it was clear that people in the 17" seats were far more restless than those in 18" seats.

And, again, distance between the rows enters into this equation as well.

Mura

True enough about the Gallapagos, but we did that cruise in August 1989 in a 12 passenger motor cruiser ... I was so seasick much of the time that it wasn't hard to lose weight ...

Mura

We've never used the pools or the hot tubs (and we started out on the "R" ships with Renaissance back in 1999) ... but I've observed many people in the hot tubs in cold weather, so I would assume they are warm enough!

Mura

CanadaTraveler,

Be assured that not everyone enters a restaurant checking out everyone else's attire! In general we are a very nice bunch of people.

There HAVE been occasional complaints about people who are "dressed down" a bit too much. But life goes on.

Mura

I've just gone through our cruise brochure twice and couldn't find any reference to attire in the dining rooms. Probably due to my failing eye sight ...

Still, I won't wear jeans to the restaurants! If I could still fit into my Mickey Mouse decorated jeans I might be tempted ...

Mura

Travelcat, I'm certainly not going to flame you.

I'm just questioning why you thought Terrace was an upscale coffee shop. Which ship were you on? I'm just curious. We have enjoyed dinners in Terrace on all ships, although there is no question that Terrace on Marina in Oct 2011 was far superior to Terrace on the "R" ships. I'm awaiting the "R" ship upgrades.

Then again, I'm wondering about Ronrick's comment about people "overdressing".

On our first Renaissance cruise (Oct 1999) we saw a group of 6 who were dressed formally. Why not? I thought it was charming!

Maybe I'm just not clear on what Ron considers "over dressing". I've always felt that if people want to dress formally they should have that option.

Mura

Very true. And I keep on wondering why the airlines think it is justified to reduce seat size and pitch further and further! They have to be aware of the issue of increasing size of passengers.

They could get sued over the issue of blood clots ... they tell us not to stand in line for the bathroom, not to walk around. We're just to sit in these cramped conditions and be happy ...

Doesn't make sense to me.

I travel in business when I can these days, but for overseas flights it isn't always feasible. I haven't been in real economy for several years, but I also do not have unlimited funds.

Mura

Specifically regarding Air France:

In April 2012 we flew via AF to Paris, round trip. Business. Much better than the premium economy flight a year earlier when we flew JFK-CDG-Rome and back from Istanbul.

On the premium economy flight we had to go through the economy section to get to the bathrooms and I was shocked at how squished everyone looked. Even in premium economy the layout was 2-4-2 but the space was reasonable. It wasn't in economy, and I have no idea how the actual pitch of the seats was ... although that also looked extremely tight.

Food was good on AF in biz and premium, but much better on Lufthansa in Aug/Sept 2012 when we did the Black Sea cruise (JFK-Munich-Athens and then Istanbul-Munich-JFK).

But I agree ... I will avoid AF when I can in the future.

Oh yes, seats were hard on AF, especially in premium economy. (Biz seats were tolerable.) I can't imagine what the economy experience was like.

Transfers at CDG were lengthy, because of the long walk from Point A to Point B, but not a problem. We had time, even when we thought we did not.

Mura

I meant to make a comment earlier but failed to do so.

We had transits through CDG twice in the past couple of years. Our bags were checked through to the final destination. No customs until we got to our final destination.

The hike through the airport from one end to the other took about 45 minutes. We DID go through passport control and on a flight from Istanbul to CDG and then on to NY when we got to passport control there were NO clerks helping non-EU passengers. Just two clerks helping EU passengers.

After about 10 minutes one of those clerks switched over to us, and wouldn't you know -- in came a wheelchair passenger who was bumped to the head of the line with 5 friends. Normally I wouldn't have cared but we had a VERY tight connection. We made it just in time.

Signs are very well marked to point you in the right direction.

It's an enormous airport and I prefer to avoid it if I can, but when you're on Air France that is pretty much not possible.

Mura

I'm glad to see that I am not alone in not having a problem with jeans in the dinings rooms at dinner time although it does depend on the jeans -- and the look of the garments as well.

No faded, torn, raggedy remnants! But my husband has a pair of jeans that look better than most of his slacks. He's never received a negative comment when wearing them to dinner. (Better than not wearing anything I suppose.)

Mura

Delighted to see we have a new convert!!

Hope to sail with you some day soon.

Mura

I haven't been in an OC yet (although I will be in November) but we have been in a Vista on Marina. Yes, there is a TV in the living room. The Vista doesn't have a media room -- unless things have changed in the past two years. Instead we had a room beyond the bedroom which had two exercise machines.

I personally prefer the Vista set-up since I would rather have the TV in the living room than the media room -- unlike your husband! There is also a TV in the bedroom.

You can indeed book one and wait list another. At least I have done so ...

Talk to your TA if you have one.

Mura

We have not sailed on the Marina size ships but have done a cruise on a R ship( Azamara) saying that after 50+ cruises we learned long ago to pick itinerary & then ship. The smaller ships can navigate smaller ports w/o using tenders, but I wouldn't cross the Atlantic or Pacific Oceans in a R size ship.

I'm not the greatest sailor -- my husband is -- but we have done two TAs on an "R" ship and other than 1-2 rough days, it was fine. I was sicker on the QE2 than I was on Regatta.

Mura

What I can say with certainty is that the documentation from Oceania was still describing the port call as Seville (Cadiz) without any ship's tours to Seville.

If memory serves, Cadiz has always been referred to as "Seville" in terms of the port ... just as Le Havre becomes Paris. But I remain surprised there were no ship's tours to Seville itself.

A week or two before we left for the cruise the NY Times travel section had an article on getting to Seville from Cadiz by train, and we met several passengers who did that and had no trouble at all.

Many passengers seem to think that there is nothing in Cadiz and they should head elsewhere ... which is far from the truth.

Mura

Many people agree with Laraine, many with Brian! I echo the "different strokes" comment. I'm still torn between the two ... some things I like better on the "R" ships, some on the "O" ships, but we appreciate both.

As to OP's comment about Seville -- I'm a bit surprised. On our first Renaissance cruise (on the R2, now Regatta) we overnighted in Cadiz and the ship had tours to Seville on both days. (Back then we didn't know about booking private tours, and we booked very late so we might not have been able to arrange anything even if we had.) We took the ship's tour on Day #1. We had an excellent guide who took us through the Alcazar (for 2-3 hours, I forget which, more likely two than three), a visit to the Cathedral, free time for lunch and sightseeing, and ended up with a sightseeing tour via the bus through Seville. We saw quite a lot. It WAS a very full day.

Yes, it's better with a smaller group, I agree! But I would say it is possible. And I find it surprising that O would describe a tour that doesn't actually go to Seville as being a tour to Seville! That certainly isn't a proper description.

We've been to Cadiz several times now. We have spent time in Cadiz which we found very enjoyable, and once arranged a private tour to Jerez. That was on a very short port day -- we had to be back on board by 3:30 -- so we didn't see as much as we liked there, but we did get to the Clock Museum and the Riding School. We'll have to try again some day ...

Mura

Air France Business Class on the A380 was better than First Class on many other airlines.

And of course, any seat on Air France is better than a seat on a US Airline.

I really cannot agree with that last sentence! Because I thought the configuration on AF was as bad as any I've seen. We did one flight in premium economy and one in business. Neither seat was comfortable, but at least it wasn't the nightmare that the coach section was. Even in business, 2-4-2 seating isn't any fun for those in the middle.

And yes, I thought the seats were harder than usual as well.

As to negotiating CDG, it IS a nightmare. Yes, signage is good. But on all our flights it took us about 45 minutes to get from one terminal to the other. And when we arrived at passport control on one flight and there were two whole clerks working with EU passengers and NO ONE working with non-EU passengers -- and we had a limited amount of time to get to our next flight. We weren't happy. After 10 minutes or so one of the clerks came over to help the non-EU people. We just made our flight, and that was only because there were other passengers who were even later.

Mura

xxx