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Saga Rose Greenland Voyager August 2007


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HELLO RUBY!!!

GREAT TO HEAR FROM YOU!!! I can't wait until you publish your memoirs!!!:D

 

HI GANG!!!

YES...the rudder on TITANIC was small but the real problem was that Murdoch??? ordered the engines into reverse. The TITANIC did not have a chance to turn. Had Murdoch ordered the helm over full and kept the propellers turning...then they might have cleared the berg. The TITANIC was built with a special steam turbine driving the center propeller that forced water directly over the rudder...by reversing that propeller...the effect on the rudder was obvious...the TITANIC simply plowed ahead.

 

ROSS

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Did you notice that Apollo Management, which recently bought Oceania, has just bought a half share in NCL, in partnership with with Star Cruises? I suppose that means that Oceania is now part of another cruise ship conglomerate,like most of the others. There are a lot of those 'carnivores' out there!

 

I hope that small lines such as Saga & Fred Olsen can continue to thrive on their own. Good luck & strength to them. They are becoming a rare breed. Has anyone any experience of Fred Olsen?

 

Do tou think Donald, that Celebrity can keep up their style & standards once they go to ships over 100,000 tons? Have Cunard?

I wonder if Oceania will lose their 'small ship' feel when they go to 60,000ton ships? They may start losing business to Azamara & even the Princess 'R' class ships.

 

LONG LIVE SAGA!

 

Graham.

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To Conte - A few notes before you leave. Kew Gardens admittance has gone up and is USD $20 per person so punch out a bit more money from the ATM when you get here.

 

The bottled water onboard Saga Rose is free and a good supply of bottles is kept in your cabin at all times. Mixed drinks are around £1.50 for most varieties. A fine selection of quality fruit is in your cabin and is replenished about every 5 days - bananas, apples, oranges, grapes, pears.

 

Saga Rose being an older ship, if my closet doors (4 of them) are creaking, I shim the door with a folded drink coaster which works like a charm.

Following are rumours about Saga Rose's decommissioning and I would like to hear later what you heard onboard. They seem to be consistent:

 

- One of the popular Captains, David, is retiring in a year but wants to come back for Rose's final voyage. The current Captain onboard is Neil Broomhall and he does the usual excellent job.

- There are 10,000 names on a "Final Voyage" list for Saga Rose. Some say the names will be selected by "first come, first served," others say selection will be made by loyal customers first.

- Saga will make a decision no later than December 2007 as to whether they will acquire another ship or a newbuild. The discussion about a newbuild is that Saga wants retain a central funnel on a new ship, the marine architects say it is too expensive and takes up too much space. The new ship may sail with around 300 to 500 passengers - the numbers vary. I find hard to believe as economics must play a part in the number of passengers.

 

We have been doing cabin tours of each other's cabins and it is so much fun to see the great variety of interior design and space. One of the multitudinous reasons I love these ships is the deck plans which, in no way, display the modular designs of the current behemoths.

 

Both of the Saga Sisters are a joy to be onboard on any level you care to name. I know you have a week before you leave but I wanted to pass along these few thoughts for you to contemplate before crossing The Pond. In your absence, I will have posted my extensive cruise notes and everyone will have fled for the hills. Bon Voyage, Conte and thank you for speaking up so many months ago.

 

Yes, indeed, we have a bright, beautiful day in the Faroes - this cruise has a contrast of ugly days and sunny days so bright one can barely stand the glare from the shore - the latter are most appreciated. But all cruises are fun, I've made some lovely friends, Saga Rose is an outstanding cruise ship and, thanks to one of my waiters, I can now socially converse in Tagalog with the crew which pleases them no end.

 

Talk to you soon, everybody. Home by Friday afternoon, then the usual unpacking, laundry, restocking the kitchen - all that jazz. But full of wonderful memories of a grand ship and a great itinerary.

 

Ruby

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Ruby

Thanks for the information and updates. I will try to confirm or deny the rumors. I'm looking forward to your more detailed review upon your return to the Texas heat. We leave a week from today. How was the dressing on board? We are counting on three formal nights in 14 days, but the line has not let on how many informal and casuals there will be. It makes packing a challenge since I don't want to be caught short. We were out shopping for additional items yesterday. A cruise is such a wonderful excuse for restocking the wardrobe!

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Do tou think Donald, that Celebrity can keep up their style & standards once they go to ships over 100,000 tons?

Graham.

 

Hi, Graham -

 

I would think that it would be difficult for Celebrity to maintain their standards on a megaship with 3,000 passengers. I have absolutely no intention of booking on Solstice - or any other floating malls - anytime. After all, I head to the seas for breaks from city life.

 

Donald.

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Hi, Graham -

 

I would think that it would be difficult for Celebrity to maintain their standards on a megaship with 3,000 passengers. I have absolutely no intention of booking on Solstice - or any other floating malls - anytime. After all, I head to the seas for breaks from city life.

 

Donald.

 

HI GANG...HI DONALD!!!

 

The megaship is now a fact of life...there is no avoiding it...brute economics dictate that ships be much larger. I can sympathize with all on this subject. I was onboard the Chandris GALILEO when the Chandris family was laying out the plans to rebuild GALILEO as the Celebrity MERIDIAN. I literally sat next to John Chandris when he was unfurling the ship plans with his business associates. I loved the Chandris ships and the way they did business. I loved the early Celebrity ships and all the improvements they brought to the industry. Then the worst thing happened...Chandris was bought out. Things will nevr be the same...Chandris was one of the last hold-outs from the Transatlantic era. I scarcely recognize the Chandris imprint on today's Celebrity ships. It is not even close to what it once was. I sincerely hope that Saga is able to find the right ship to take over the wonderful traditions that Saga has created. I fear that Ruby might be doing her swan song on Saga...even as we speak. The companies that own the type of ship that Saga wants to acquire might want to scoop Saga up...and that would be a shame...as Saga is the last of a breed.

 

ROSS

 

HI RUBY!!! TALK TO YOU SOON!!!

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Hi, Ross!

 

You're probably right, floating mega-malls will be the future of cruise industry, to be enjoyed by those who have absolutely no experience or concept of the warmth and intimacy of smaller ships. Of my next ten cruises, the largest is the 78,000-ton Vision of the Seas, which is a mere half the size of the largest cruise ships existing.

 

I believe that Ruby mentioned that after her cruise on the Saga Rose, she intends to take land-based trips. The Saga Rose may indeed be her swan song, but what a pleasant ship to do it on! I'm really looking forward to her narrative after her return.

 

Donald.

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YES...the rudder on TITANIC was small but the real problem was that Murdoch??? ordered the engines into reverse. The TITANIC did not have a chance to turn. Had Murdoch ordered the helm over full and kept the propellers turning...then they might have cleared the berg. The TITANIC was built with a special steam turbine driving the center propeller that forced water directly over the rudder...by reversing that propeller...the effect on the rudder was obvious...the TITANIC simply plowed ahead.

 

ROSS

 

I imagine that if the rudder was turned one way & the propellers reversed, it would tend to send the ship in the opposite direction to that intended.

 

Mauretania would have been what, maybe one quarter the length of QM2; is the dining room on QM2 really a quarter of the length of the ship (presumably the Britannia Restaurant)?

 

I think that although Saga is a small cruise company, it is part of a large organisation providing travel & other services to the 'over 50s' in the UK. This may help it to survive as a small fish in a big pond. In the same way, Fred Olsen Cruises is part of a large shipping company.

 

I certainly hope that our Ruby is very far from her 'swan song' on Saga or any other type of cruise (except the behemoths)! Hopefully Saga Ruby (the ship), has many years still to sail with Saga & be enjoyed by our Saga Ruby & ourselves.

 

Correct me if I am wrong Ross, but I had the idea that Chandris was a sort of 'Carnival Cruise Lines' of their day; 'pack 'em on' & 'cheap & cheerful' sort of thing? This image does not however mesh with your fond memories of them. Am I doing them an injustice?

 

When I worked on the Ocean Islander, the 'magician' had worked a lot on Chandris ships. He did a fire eating act culminating in the expulsion of some sort of inflamable fluid from his mouth, the fluid igniting with a resulting explosion of flame into the air. The poor captain almost had apoplexy! Apparently there were some sort of fuel pipes running above the low ceiling in the show lounge, just above the magician. That part of his act was removed, much to his disappointment!

 

Graham.

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HI GRAHAM!!!

 

We certainly hope that RUBY continues to cruise on Saga...we will keep our fingers crossed. You are correct...Saga is a result of a travel company that sprang from a large insurance company. At least we know they have excellent coverage...LOL.

 

CHANDRIS: The company was involved with mainly shipping...they started with a coal carrier way back around 1919. After WW II they went into the passenger business in a big way. They were carriers for immigrants to Australia and South America. They did something very interesting, however, they rebuilt their ships to "cruise specifications"...air conditioning, pools, colorful lounges, etc. Their ships were older but they were well run and had all the amenities that the luxury liners had and they were selling tickets at a more reasonable price. Chandris always offered better accommodations at a cheaper price. When the immigration trade started to wear thin Chandris rebuilt some of their newer ships for cruising in the American market. Chandris had plenty of experience with their Greek island cruises and they had a chain of resort hotels so all the personnel onboard their American cruise ships were hand picked...and they were superb. The AMERIKANIS (American Lady) was the first big entry into the American cruise scene. She was totally rebuilt and had many wonderful features and she was decorated in a very nice style. The food and service onboard her was legendary back in the late 60's. Her menus averaged over 120 items at dinner (the menu items were actually numbered for the Greek waiters). Nothing was too much trouble for the passengers. Stories of unlimited shrimp, special requests and lavish dinner parties abounded. We were onboard the BREMEN with some friends who had been on the AMEROKANIS and they told us stories that prompted me to book a cruise on the AMERIKANIS the following year...THEY WERE RIGHT!!! Our cruise on the AMERIKANIS was as memorable as any we have ever been on. The Greek stewards fell all over us and just spoiled us rotten. I can tell you story after story. One of the best was how the 2 bar stewards in the main lounge would drop whatever they were doing and run to the door to meet my wife when she was coming to meet me before dinner. They fell all over Diane and held her hands while the escorted her to her seat. I can remember seeing Baklava for dessert and saying how I wished that I had some instead of the birthday cake we were having. Later on that night when we went back to our cabin...there was a full plate of baklava and plates napkins and forks waiting for us. Add to this the wonderful Greek passion to celebrate life...the entertainers, the music, the dancing and late night partying. The one thing that I miss most on the the mega liners...is the ethnic component. The Greeks really knew how to party into the night...the only things missing were the smashed plates...LOL!!! I can say, with all clarity, that the Chandris line offered some great cruises that could easily compete with the luxury lines. There was nothing at all cheap about their American operation. It was First Class all the way and their pricing was just a bit under the competition...sometimes 20% or more...which made them an excellent value..."A BIG BANG for the buck" as we used to say.

 

ROSS

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Thank you Ross for sharing your experiences of Chandris. Once again I stand corrected!

 

Your recollections of the Greeks reminded me again of my days on the Ocean Islander. The officers were mainly Greek & I often ate with them in the officers' mess. I recall that they always seemed to be shouting at each other, which was just normal everyday conversation for them! They also never started a meal without a Greek salad. Funny the things you remember.

 

There is an interesting thread on the 'Festivale' on 'Whatever happened to...' at the moment. Doug. has an interesting collection of photos, on the Topaz on page one.

 

Regarding SOLAS. I thought that it only applied to ocean going ships & that coastal vessels & those on inland waters were exempt. Why then, is the Delta Queen to be removed from service, or was this due to other, American legislation?

 

Ruby has just been to Cape Farewell in Greenland. I happened to read an interesting article in the 'Scots Magazine' last night about Scottish 'whalers'. Between one & two hundred years ago, whaling was a major world industry. Peterhead & Dundee in Scotland, were two of Britain's biggest whaling ports from whence many small whaling ships manned by 40 or 50 hardy souls, used to sail out & spend 8 or 9 months per year hunting whales in the waters east of Greenland. When they exhausted the whale supply there, they rounded Cape Farewell to hunt the more dangerous waters west of Greenland & up to the Canadian Arctic, often becoming stuck in the ice.

 

One ship mentioned, was 292 tons & 100 ft long . It spent over 30 seasons in the north. Give me Saga Rose anyday!

 

Being such a dangerous business, the government subsidised whalers to carry a ship's surgeon. These were usually very inexperienced medical students, making money for their studies. They often dispensed medicines by numbers; ie a dose of 'bottle 5' for dysentery, 'bottle 2' for fever etc. If they ran out of bottle 5, they would give a half dose of 2 & a half of 3 (2+3=5) etc!!! One young student named 'Doyle', was better at the job & gained quite a good reputation. Later in life, he was better known as Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, creator of Sherlock Holmes!

 

Graham.

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AHHHHH GRAHAM...I come not to correct you...but, rather...to enlighten!!!:D

 

DELTA QUEEN: Was slated to be removed from service years ago...but the United States Congress extended the certification. It literally took..."An Act Of Congress" to keep the DELTA QUEEN going. She is an historical icon and sadly...she will be taken out of service.

 

I never knew that Conan Doyle went to sea!!!...EXCELLENT!!!:D

 

ROSS

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According to http://www.ssmaritime.com, another classic ship will be going to the breakers.

 

They are reporting that Independence, currently tied up at Hunter's Point, San Francisco, has been bought by an Indian consortium and that the purchase is a cover to get the ship to the scrappers.

 

I never sailed on Independence, but did sail on her sister, Constitution, which sunk several years ago while under tow to the breakers.

 

Constitution won some fame as the ship that Grace Kelly took when she went to Monaco to marry Rainier. She might have been the ship featured in An Affair to Remember, with Deborah Kerr and Cary Grant, but I'm not sure on that point.

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According to www.ssmaritime.com, another classic ship will be going to the breakers.

 

They are reporting that Independence, currently tied up at Hunter's Point, San Francisco, has been bought by an Indian consortium and that the purchase is a cover to get the ship to the scrappers.

 

I never sailed on Independence, but did sail on her sister, Constitution, which sunk several years ago while under tow to the breakers.

 

Constitution won some fame as the ship that Grace Kelly took when she went to Monaco to marry Rainier. She might have been the ship featured in An Affair to Remember, with Deborah Kerr and Cary Grant, but I'm not sure on that point.

 

I know nothing of these ships. Please tell more.

 

Graham.

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HI DRUKE!!!

 

It is indeed sad to hear about the demise of the INDEPENDENCE. Both sisters were built in Fall River, Massachusetts. They were famous for many years...believe it or not...the thing that really made them famous was the I LOVE LUCY SHOW...when Lucy and Ricky were going to Europe and Lucy missed the ship!!! They had to fly her in on a helicopter...LOL!!! That show was seen by 30 million poeple when it aired...January 1956...which I believe is before Grace Kelly left for Monaco...and before Cary Grant filmed "An Affair To Remember"...LOL.

 

Ross

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Today is Ruby's last day at sea, before arriving in Dover tomorrow (the 23rd). I wonder how she feels today - sorry that the cruise is over soon, or happy to be heading back home with fond memories? Usually for me the last day of each cruise is sort of a downer, with the carefree spirit dampened as I repack my luggage and bid farewell to my dining room companions and new-found friends. What about you guys?

 

Donald.

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Today is Ruby's last day at sea, before arriving in Dover tomorrow (the 23rd). I wonder how she feels today - sorry that the cruise is over soon, or happy to be heading back home with fond memories? Usually for me the last day of each cruise is sort of a downer, with the carefree spirit dampened as I repack my luggage and bid farewell to my dining room companions and new-found friends. What about you guys?

 

Donald.

 

Gosh, time does fly! I thought Ruby got in on friday but you are right, it is tomorrow. She will be home on friday. I wonder how she got on in Orkney yesterday.

I agree that the end of a cruise is usually tinged with sadness. That is when having a land component to the trip is good; there is still something to look forward to.

At least with most of your cruises, Donald, you do not have that long flight home to spoil the end of your cruise!

 

Graham.

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To Conte

The discussion about a newbuild is that Saga wants retain a central funnel on a new ship, the marine architects say it is too expensive and takes up too much space.

Ruby

 

I'm back on the nostalgia kick again after reading this remark from Ruby. I went through my old brochures to retrieve these

pictures of Leonardo da Vinci, the apotheosis of ships with a central funnel. She was clearly the inspiration for Sagafjord/Saga Rose. The Leonardo's funnel was, as I'm sure Ross remembers, ENORMOUS. One couldn't help being impressed when strolling along the Belvedere deck and gazing upward. The central funnel design also allowed for the graceful terracing of the pool decks which fell off in swooping curves. This is one of the finest depictions of the Enchanted City afloat. The down side was that soot fell from the funnel onto the deck chairs below, regardless whether the recumbent passengers were in first class or tourist.

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Great pictures of the Leonardo, Conte. A nice looking classic ship. She reminds me a little of the Marco Polo. The tiered stern is beautiful & must have made the outside decks quite interesting. The QE2 is tiered a little like that. I suppose, today they would see that as a waste of deck space, but it was so aesthetic.

 

Too bad about the soot on the decks though. The vent in my cabin on the Prinsendam, used to blow soot onto my bed!

 

It is interesting that Saga were considering a small newbuild with a classic look. Are the Disney ships not modern ships with central funnels? A classic looking new ship would be great. I suppose that is what the VistaFjord was in the 1970s.

 

Graham.

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HI GANG!!!

I heard from RUBY...she is having a fantastic time and has made a slew of new friends. She got to talk to the ocean liner historian onboard for more than 4 hours...would have loved to have been in on that conversation...LOL!!!

 

Conte...Thanks for posting those pics. You are so right...I can clearly remember clearing the Verazanno Bridge and then walking to the upper deck as far as we could...just beneath that giant funnel...what a sight. My 2 friends who were with me had never been on a ship before and they were simply stunned. I also loved the 3 pool arrangement. When the LD cruised she was all one class...so you could pick the pool you wanted to lounge by...and...of course...the lounge chairs were reserved and paid for. I can remember the Deck Steward ejecting several interlopers who had seized our chairs...what a difference from today's cruising style with "chair hogs"...LOL. The LEONARDO was just gorgeous.

 

Another famous 1 stacker was the CARONIA...also known as..."THE GREEN GODDESS". She was the first ship that Cunard built that was dedicated to cruising...and she was beautiful, sturdy and a bit masculine...a strong ship. She was known for carrying some of the wealthiest and most famous passengers in the world. Cruising in the 1950's was a funny affair. Most of the men wore suits and hats...the lounge wear was hillarious. I was fortunate enough to have been given a scrapbook from a world cruise and I have many interesting items from the CARONIA. She was also a real First Class Liner...luxury all the way. Cruising in those days was certainly different than today.

 

Ross

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Conte: I wonder if the maritime historian will still be on the Saga Rose when you sail on her later this month? Thanks for the photographs of the Leonardo da Vinci! Her large funnel was a perfect balance for her long hull.

 

Graham: I believe that one of the two funnels on the Disney ships is a dummy. These ships sure have nice profiles! I hope that the Saga's replacement will have a central funnel.

 

Ross: I remember that "I Love Lucy" episode with the Independence. My family was gathered around the television set and all of us laughed. It's still funny in reruns. Prime-time television programs in the 1950s were markedly different from the trash currently being shown nowadays.

 

Yesterday I received a copy of Clive Harvey's The Saxonia Sisters. When I lived with my family in Montreal during the 1950s and 1960s, I was familiar with these Cunard liners, as their arrivals and departures were reported in the newspapers. One day we went to watch the Carinthia depart for Europe. Another time we also had a look at the Empress of France.

 

Donald.

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I agree that Vancouver ranks very high among "pretty ports/harbors", and that the ferry crossing over to Vancouver Island is great.

 

My dad, when he first immigrated from England way back when, settled on either Main or Pender Island (I never can remember which). Good thing he later immigrated to the states and met my mother, otherwise I wouldn't be!

 

Michael: That is most interesting that your father lived in the Gulf Islands for a while. It sounds like you have visited the area & know how beautiful it is. It is also interesting that your father came out from England & your daughter has gone back there to live. As they say; what comes around, goes around! Maybe, if appropriate, you can share the story about your son in law, that Ruby alluded to. If not appropriate, please just ignore.

 

I love the ferry crossing from Vancouver to Victoria, through the Gulf Islands. As you wend your way through the islands, between Mayne & Galliano & then past North & South Pender, it reminds me of the approach to Stockholm in sweden. Infact so many of the vistas remind me of other places. It is a bit like New Zealand in that respect (the two places are similar in many ways).

 

As you cross from Vancouver on a clear day, the snow capped volcanic peak of Mount Baker down in Washington State, shines in the sun to the south, towering above it's billowing skirts of puffy white clouds. It looks like Mount Egmont (Taranaki) in new zealand, Mount Fuji or Kilimanjaro.

 

On the return from Nanaimo to vancouver, looking up the Howe Sound in the direction of Whistler, reminds me of pictures I have seen of Guilin, China. There are layers of shadowy peaked islands & mountains beyond, the light effects ever changing, giving a miriad of different hues & shades, combined with ever changing cloud patterns. The effect is mystical & mesmerising.

 

Approaching Vancouver, the North Shore mountains loom up ahead in jagged peaks clothed in trees, reminiscent of Tahiti. The mountains beyond are Alpine.

 

Like they said of New Zealand; when you have seen one country, you have seen them all !!!

 

Going through the narrow Active Pass, between Mayne & Galliano Islands, we usually meet the ferry coming the opposite way & passing close by us.This always takes me back to my Ocean Islander days (yet again!).

On the Islander, we made three trips up the Orinocho River in Venezuela.The navigable passage on the river was quite narrow & on one evening, we met the sister ship, Ocean Princess (later to sink in the Amazon but still going strong today with Louis Cruises) coming down the river & passing close to us. She was lit up & there was a great exchange of greetings as the two ships passed in the night. One of the band members on the Princess was out on the deck, adding to the general commotion by playing his trumpet. It was a memorable event.

 

On my most recent trip through Active Pass, for the first time, We had to stop & wait for the other ferry to come round the corner. As the ship sat still on the water, I was thinking of another night on the Orinocho, when a cargo ship had hit a sand bank, swung around & blocked the passage. We had to wait several hours until the obstruction was cleared, the ship just sitting quietly on the river surrounded by the Venezuelan jungle night.

 

The indigenous people of the area, was a fairly primitive jungle tribe. Suddenly, like a time traveller from the future, this great brightly lit four star hotel parked itself in their back yard, stimulating more than a little interest. It seemed like the whole community piled into their dugout canoes & paddled out to surround the ship & quietly sit & stare up at us in amazement.They stared up at us & we stared down at them, peoples from a different age. They had whole families, including mothers with babes in arms. No one wanted to miss the show.

 

Some of the more anxiously inclined passengers started to get upset, thinking that we were about to be boarded by hostile indians! I think, a result of being brought up on a diet of too many 'Western' movies perhaps!

 

The fleet of British Columbia Ferries is one of the largest in the world. On my latest westward crossing, I was on the 1963 'Queen of Saanich'. I first sailed on her on my first visit to canada, with family, in 1973. She is still going strong after 44 years, outliving most of the ocean liners of her day. She certainly is a ship with character. She would not fit into the usual cruise categories of 'standard', 'premium' or 'luxury', but would be in a category which I would describe as 'rustic'. The cuisine might be described by the British as 'transport caf ' or 'greasy spoon'! However she is an old ship with great character & I love to sail on her & her siblings. She is about 9,000 tons.

 

The newer 'Spirit Class' vessels are about 19,000 tons & have a passable buffet onboard. They are nice ferries. In December, we are in for a special treat, with the introduction of the first of the new 'Super C Class' ferries, the largest 'double ended' (roll on roll off) ferries in the world. Carrying 1,665 passengers & 350 cars, they will be the behemoths of the car ferry world! We will have the full range of vessels from the old & classic to the new & shiny. I do enjoy my two 'cruises' a month. That is even more than you go on Donald!

 

Graham.

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Graham - your description of the pleasures of sailing on BC Ferries makes me want to head down to the dock and catch the next one! I haven't had any reason to go to Vancouver Island, so haven't been on the ferry for several years. You are right, the passage through Active Pass and the islands is the best part of the trip.

 

I read in the newspapers about a month or so ago that the government is considering banning the passing of two ferries in Active Pass due to safety reasons. That would be a loss to the passengers who enjoy the blowing of approaching whistles and waving to each other as they pass.

 

Happy ferry cruising twice monthly, Graham! :D

 

Donald.

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