QUEEN VICTORIA - new and old

Well it's official. The new QV is another Vista Class. Interesting that very little had to be changed to the "old" QV to become ARCADIA. Change the funnel, signage, and lounge names, and Viola! , instant Cunard "liner" to P&O "cruiser". Sorry if I'm sounding a bit sarcastic here, but I just find it all a bit amusing. The original QV was rather hyped up by Cunard, so why shouldn't the "new" QV be as well? I still think this decision had much more to do with P&O needing additional tonnage and profitability forecasts then Cunard deciding the original QV was not fit for their fleet. They are basically getting the same ship a few years later with some interior modifications.

Also note that ARCADIA will be an adults-only ship. Apparently this concept is working better then people have speculated.

Ernie

From Seatrade Insider:

===================

Queen Victoria: new and old

5/4/2004

Cunard’s new Queen Victoria to be built at Fincantieri’s Marghera yard will have a passenger capacity of 1,850 and be constructed along the same design lines as the current Queen Victoria (to be switched to P&O and re-named Arcadia). Internally the new ship will be more consistent with the grand ocean liner style of QM2 and QE2.

Based on an 85,000gt Vista-class hull, the new Queen Victoria will likely end up around 82,000 tons, according to yard sources, and will include more luxury and mini-suites, a larger ballroom and more culinary and alternative dining areas than the original version.

The current Queen Victoria is well advanced in construction and is scheduled to be floated out in May. As part of her impending name change and transfer to P&O, the vessel will sport a yellow funnel rather than the planned Cunard-esque funnel and P&O’s all-white livery rather than the Cunard liner styled black hull and white superstructure.Internally all signage will be altered to reflect P&O’s branding and the public rooms will be renamed.

Arcadia will be designated exclusively for adults.

Ernie,

Have you no compassion for the sinner who repenteth? IF Cunard does make changes to the Vista class that makes QV(2) more Cunard, is that not a 'good' thing? Class based dining rooms, a big ballroom, library etc...sounds like they are heading in the right direction (I know, it may just be gloss on a fleet re-alignment) but surely today's announcement suggests that P&O = HAL, but Cunard is (or will be) different - from a portfolio pov, good for Cunard (if not HAL/P&O). In any case, it probably means more of the QE2, another 'good thing' in my view.

Peter

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by guernseyguy:

Ernie,

Have you no compassion for the sinner who repenteth? _IF_ Cunard does make changes to the Vista class that makes QV(2) more Cunard, is that not a 'good' thing? Class based dining rooms, a big ballroom, library etc...sounds like they are heading in the right direction (I know, it may just be gloss on a fleet re-alignment) but surely today's announcement suggests that P&O = HAL, but Cunard is (or will be) different - from a portfolio pov, good for Cunard (if not HAL/P&O). In any case, it probably means more of the QE2, another 'good thing' in my view.

Peter<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

More of QE2 is a great thing to be sure, but this "new" QV is still nothing more than a delayed Vista Class. If a larger ballroom and more alternative restaurants make a Cunard "liner", then so be it.

I am doubtful that any prospects of Cunard feeling a Vista Class ship was unsuitable for their line had anything to do with this ship transfer. If that were the case, we would be seeing an entirely new design for Cunard, not just another Vista. The more likely scenario is that Carnival Corp. realized that P&O was doing very well and needed the additional tonnage more so than Cunard. They no doubt saw much greater short term profitability potential having the 2005 Vista under the P&O banner.

Wasn't Cunard touting the original QV as a "spectacular" ship?? Of course they are going to do the same with the "new" QV, but put a spin on it to make it sound even better.... and to justify their actions. In the end, we still have a Vista Class ship, designed mainly for the mass-market, possibly cruising world itineraries for Cunard in 2007.

Had Cunard replaced the original QV with a new design, I would have bought into this hook, line, and sinker. As it is, Cunard is just getting one Vista Class for another, with a few more modifications. It only proves just how interchangeable the Carnival Corp. fleet is.

BTW, the only changes being made to the current QV for P&O will be a new funnel, signage, and new lounge names. Interesting how easy it was for this superbly decorated Cunard "liner" to transform into a P&O "cruiser".

Ernie - who is sorry to be so sarcastic, but I find the spin these cruise lines place fleet movements rather amusing. There is so little brand differentiation these days, and this only helps to prove it.

Well I am trying to be ever the optimist here. Okay, the article from Seatrade Insider says the "new" QV will be based on a Vista Class *hull* only. Does that mean the superstructure has to be the same? Couldn't it be a Vista Class hull with a more liner like superstructure? And if this "new" QV will be doing the World Cruise, could they not outfit her with more powerful and faster engines?

Link to Cunard Press Releases Page

My Cunard Rep Sent me a Copy of Pam Conover's internal memo on the subject which he ok'd me to post here:

"Attached please find two important press announcements regarding the delivery of the Queen Victoria and the realignment and expansion of Carnival Corporation and plc's capacity in the British cruise market.

"Following the very successful launch of Queen Mary 2, we have been reviewing the features of Queen Victoria and concluded that the current

design of the vessel does not have all the luxury characteristics worthy of a classic Cunard ocean liner. It started out as a modern cruise vessel in its design concept and there are some key factors which need

to be included, particularly the creation of a Princess Grill experience, including a separate dedicated restaurant and associated

mini-suites.

"For that reason, we have decided to create an enhanced Queen Victoria which allows us to incorporate these and other Cunard features.

"The resulting delay in delivery until December 2006 presents some challenges as I know the organization has begun to gear up for a March 2005 introduction. I am, however, confident that this is the right decision for the brand and will result in a beautiful new vessel, consistent in all aspects with our Cunard Line product.

"Further communication will be forthcoming when we have determined the final designs for the new vessel.

"In the meantime, we all need to remain very focused on continuing to build on the early success we have achieved with Queen Mary 2 and ensure that Queen Elizabeth 2 succeeds in her new deployment cruising out of Southampton.

"Thank you for your continued support and commitment."

Pamela Conover

President

So what does a Vista class hull look like? Can you really build an "ocean liner" on such a hull, or only call whatever it is an ocean liner?

An ocean liner should have a thicker, more streamlined hull and draw more water, shouldn't it, and be faster?

I also saw the term "Panamax" in one article. Does this mean it is the maximum size to fit through the Panama Canal?

Finally, will Stephen Payne design this ship? He designed the hull of the QM2, although not the interior. Since the hull is apparently fixed, can he or anyone do anything to make it an ocean liner anyway???

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JudyJB:

So what does a Vista class hull look like? Can you really build an "ocean liner" on such a hull, or only call whatever it is an ocean liner?

An ocean liner should have a thicker, more streamlined hull and draw more water, shouldn't it, and be faster?

I also saw the term "Panamax" in one article. Does this mean it is the maximum size to fit through the Panama Canal?

Finally, will Stephen Payne design this ship? He designed the hull of the QM2, although not the interior. Since the hull is apparently fixed, can he or anyone do anything to make it an ocean liner anyway???<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It can't be an ocean liner unless it has a true ocean liner hull (which this new QV won't have). I'm just saying, at least the damn thing could be made to go faster and have a liner like super structure on top of the Vista Class hull to give her more of a liner like appearance and characteristics.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CGT:

Well I am trying to be ever the optimist here. Okay, the article from Seatrade Insider says the "new" QV will be based on a Vista Class *hull* only. Does that mean the superstructure has to be the same? Couldn't it be a Vista Class hull with a more liner like superstructure? And if this "new" QV will be doing the World Cruise, could they not outfit her with more powerful and faster engines?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, that would be nice but I don't think it's going to happen. Too much money to expend on a design that has proven itself to Carnival Corp. time and time again. Also, Micky Arison is almost fanatical about BALCONIES! QM2 was *required* to have a minimum of 7 balcony decks, and Payne gave Micky 8. He was very pleased. I wish I could say those condo-style balcony decks were going to disappear, but it's very likely they will not. Even so, I think overall the Spirit/Vista Class ships are not bad looking. In fact I think they are rather pleasing compared to much of what else is out there. Unfortunately they are not World cruise ships now matter how many times you tweak them. As for stronger engines, your guess is as good as mine??

I'm just tired of all these Spirit/Vista Class derivatives. I guess the only thing new I have to look forward to now are the new HAL designs and a what reported to be a spectacular new design for Carnival Cruise Lines.

The internal memo to Cunard employees was amusing. You mean to tell me that Cunard could not figure out that QV needed a Princess Grill from the onset? Sounds like nonsense to me.

Ernie

Ernie wrote:<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> You mean to tell me that Cunard could not figure out that QV needed a Princess Grill from the onset? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, better late than never....I also think we shouldn't get totally hung up on the 'liner' bit - Cunard only ever had a few express liners in the fleet at any one time - most of the tonnage plodded along between 18 - 20 knots....so Queen Victoria will not be toooo slooooow by comparison - I don't have my reference books to hand, but probably about as fast as the origanal Caronia, around 100 years ago! Progress - never mind the knots - count the balconies!

Peter

The head is still spinning - here is the QV as Arcadia on the P&O web site already!!

The site goes on to say <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>

P&O Cruises, the leading cruise line in the UK, has announced that it will take delivery of a new ship, Arcadia, in April 2005. The 85,000 ton ship, with 1,968 beds, is currently under construction in Italy, and will become the largest cruise ship built exclusively for the British market.

Purpose-built for Britain and proudly flying the red ensign, Arcadia moves the P&O Cruises brand further forward in continuing to bring the best in cruise ship innovation to the British audience. 868 of her 984 passenger cabins have a sea view, with 677 of these having a private balcony, more than on any other UK-based ship. Of her 67 suites and mini-suites, the most lavish feature a Jacuzzi on the balcony.

In addition to her stunning galleried main dining room, Arcadia will offer a range of alternative culinary experiences including a gourmet restaurant, a 24-hour food court, Indian and Oriental menus, a patisserie and poolside dining under the stars.

In keeping with the latest lifestyle trends, Arcadia’s extensive spa will include a thermal suite with aromatic steam rooms, dry float suite and a hydrotherapy pool. Arcadia will also feature P&O Cruises’ innovative new Easy Like a Sunday concept, which allows passengers to chill out in the most civilised surroundings.

Underlining P&O Cruises’ reputation for combining innovation with the finest cruising tradition, Arcadia will feature a series of signature rooms including the Crow’s Nest observation lounge, a West End-style theatre and classic British pub.

Arcadia will be designated a ship exclusively for adults, a style of cruising unique to P&O Cruises, with families continuing to be extremely well served by other ships in the fleet.

In May 2005, a fifth ship, Artemis, will also join the P&O Cruises fleet. Already a classic medium-sized ship, popular with British passengers and famed for her all-outside cabins, the 45,000 ton, 1,200 bed Artemis, is currently sailing with sister company Princess Cruises as Royal Princess. She will be converted to a British-style vessel before joining the P&O Cruises fleet next spring.

Both the new Arcadia and Artemis will be child-free ships and will operate round-trip Southampton cruises in the summer and long-distance voyages in the winter.

In May next year, Adonia will be transferred to Princess Cruises and renamed the Sea Princess. She will continue to operate from the UK in the summer season and will offer 14 day Caribbean itineraries in the winter.

Watch this space for further news and information over the coming weeks and months.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ernie makes so many good points, and frankly I am surprised there's not more of an outcry from the Cunarders here. After all, I remember all the drama over the compromises made to QM2 to make her more of a cruise ship and less of a real liner.. Cunard says they will strengthen the hull and give her better engines to make her more of a sea going vessel, but she will still fundamentally look like all the other Spirit class ships. Ernie's right, Mickey is not going to tamper with a tried and true design. It reminds me of the 80's when people buying Buicks were astounded to learn that their engines were made by Chevrolet.. and GM saw nothing wrong with that. Seems very much the same kind of corporate think to me.

Then again, in the new world of cruising, they have to look for ways to deliver new ships as economically as possible.

Personally, I still think RCI does the best job of designing a cruise ship that still looks like a ship and not as much like a condo development.

PAST: Queen of Bermuda '89 Tropicale '99, Explorer of the Seas '02, Radiance of the Seas '02, Vision of the Seas '03, Queen Elizabeth 2 '03, Infinity '03, Serenade of the Seas '03, Monarch of the Seas '03, Norwegian Star '03. Queen Mary 2 '04

FUTURE:

Diamond Princess, 5/1/04

Norwegian Star, 9/26/04

Sapphire Princess, 1/6/05

Detailed ship pix: http://community.webshots.com/user/mattinla

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KenC:

The head is still spinning - here is the QV as Arcadia on the P&O web site already!!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Meanwhile, back at the Ol' "Lazy C" Ranch, Queen Victoria lives!

To Carnival's credit, it looks like they have dropped the Cunard signature funnel deflector from "Arcadia."