Philosophical Camera System Advice

My DSLR body is aging and either needs to be replaced or go to the service center for repair. The repair is going to cost about the trade in value of the body or half it's used retail value. It's still working but I'm not comfortable taking it as my main body on an important trip. Complicating matters is the size & weight of my DSLR gear is becoming more difficult/annoying to travel with as it alone consumes most of the European carry on allowance in coach.

I have been toying with the idea of abandoning DLSR altogether and making the move to mirror less or "gasp" even pocket cameras. I no longer do as much photography as I used to so now I'm more solidly in the recreational category and have a hard time justifying keeping lenses that have a comma in the price.

Traditionally I have been a Canon user but earlier this year bought an Olympus TG-2. The seal has been broken and feel I should consider all options. Canon is very weak in mirror less and CC member Pierces is always quick to mention Sony. I'll be heading to NYC in a few weeks where I'll be able to view/handle almost everything to see how they feel in my hands.

So, does anyone have guidance or advice to offer?

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Previously when I was traveling to Central America more and doing animal photography the very long telephotos of SLR's kept me in that category. As I no longer do that I'm more into the average tourist category needing more average lens ranges. Here is the core of my current travel bag if it helps to know what I'm coming from:

Canon 50D

Canon 17-55 f2.8

Canon 24-105L

Canon 100-400L

I have gone the Sony NEX route and in the past Nikon DLSR. Now at the

age of 71, was time to scale back on cameras. I do not want to mess with changing camera lens and carrying several support items to do photography, am getting old. lol

I now have, all bridge camera except the RX100

Sony Rx10 24-200mm 2.8 ...great low light carry around camera

Panasonic FZ200 24-600mm 2.8. ..... Fast lens for extra range.

Sony RX100. In door fast lens pocket camera.

Canon SX50 HS 24-1200mm. ..Super zoom for wildlife

Have done a lot of research, like dpreview, and decided I wanted different cameras to cover the whole focal range and yet good excellent quality. I know they are not at the level of some DLSR's but for me they get the job done.

Just my thoughts, good luck, your experience and knowledge you will help you come up with the right camera. Let us know.

Tom :cool:

I will quickly mention Sony again...:D

I have always respected their knack for innovation and loathed their penchant for proprietary media. When I moved from Minolta to Sony, it was driven by ergonomics and price/performance and would not have happened if they had retained the proprietary media obsession (I only had one real "keeper" lens). When the NEX first appeared, I was impressed by the compact tech but put off by the menus and controls. To my delight, they actually listened to the users and released a major firmware fix that addressed almost all of the complaints. As for the controls, the NEX-7 added control options that met most of the remaining complaints. It seems that their legendary arrogance has finally been softened by market pressure.

Now they have started on a new wave of innovation that has turned my head yet again. Starting with the RX100 and RX1 compacts, the emphasis on quality seemed to be the main focus. Their latest bridge all-in-one is a $1300 package that looks too pricey until you dive into the specs and consider the bag of stuff you would need to equal the bang for the buck it offers. The new A7 series full-frame ILCs are changing the way I think about my own photography. Most of my shooting is very calm and deliberate with only occasional grandchild-related sports action. I may never buy another full-size DSLR with so much versatility provided by the new A7 class in such a tiny package. They only have a few (excellent) lenses available as of now, but the APS-c E-mount lenses can be used in crop mode and like other e-mount cameras, the flange-to-sensor distance allows almost any lens to be adapted to it with stellar results. These aren't casual cameras for entry-level shooters but for migrating from from the back-breaking roller bag to the small sling pack without giving up any measure of quality, they can't currently be beaten. All of the above and some upcoming additions to the APS-C A- and E-mount camera lines keeps me shooting with what I have.

My philosophy is to use what I like and what works for me. I'm not overly brand aware and consider the equipment I buy as tools with little or no consideration of resale value. I buy to use, not as a collector looking for an investment. When smartphones became the rage, I went with Android because it suited me better and I figured the variety of manufacturers would drive innovation faster than Apple's "this is what you need" marketing. That has worked out well for me. I have Pioneer home theater equipment and Vizio TVs because of more value/performance comparison. If I did any underwater photography, I'd be all over Nikon's AW-1 "Digital Nikonos". My enthusiasm for Sony's imaging products may seem like fanboyism but in reality, I like how they perform and I like where the brand is going. I really non't NEED to upgrade my equipment right now but if I did and Canon came out with a 36MP ILC the size of their G-series compact, I'd be looking hard in that direction. But they didn't. Sony did.

Enough philosophy? :D

Anyway...whatever you end up choosing, don't lose your love of photography. It is cheap therapy and leaves us with many beautiful memories of our lives and the world around us.

Happy shooting!

Dave

I think you sound like a decent candidate for a mirrorless interchangeable camera - you would likely still appreciate what the large sensor can deliver, and having some flexibility in changing lenses for different needs, but don't want to lug around a big kit anymore, and don't have as much need for specialist lenses that are typically only available with DSLRs (such as those supertelephotos and long primes).

Before any battles begin over which is 'better' than the other, let's agree that the top two mirrorless offerings as far as sales and lens collections are concerned are Sony's NEX line, and Olympus & Panasonic's Micro 4:3 line. And the basic fact is that both are excellent systems, that could meet the need of 90% of the photographers out there. Neither system is demonstrably superior to the other, with each having some advantages and disadvantages...both close enough in overall image quality and performance as to really not matter much. So I could recommend either direction as being worth considering.

I personally went with the NEX system, as it just suited me in feel, familiarity, and good experience with past products, and the price was right. I'm quite sure I would have been just as happy with M4:3 and been just as capable of getting almost all the same shots...there were just a few things I personally liked about the NEX that leaned me in that direction - namely I liked that same APS-C 16MP sensor which I have in my DSLR, and that I liked Sony's innovative multi-stacking features which are quite effective and seem to work better than some of the other systems that added the features.

I still shoot with a DSLR, and likely will for some time...I still do a lot of wildlife and birding, and like the larger body ergonomics and controls especially when shooting with long lenses, plus the superior focus tracking ability and buffer and battery size. However, the NEX is a wonderful second body and also comes in very handy when I just don't want the bulk. I can travel with my NEX and 4 lenses in the exact same sized bag as I squeeze my DSLR with one lens attached. So 3 more lenses can come along with the NEX in the same space...or put another way, I need to nearly triple my bag size in order to accommodate 3 more lenses with the DSLR covering the same focal range.

My traveling NEX kit, which fits in a bag about the size of a small cigar box - 9¼" W x 4½" D x 7" H, is a 10-18mm F4 ultrawide, an 18-55mm kit, a 55-210mm zoom, and a 35mm F1.4 prime...plus the NEX body. I can even fit the spare battery, my sunglasses, and a few memory cards in there. That same kit with my DSLR requires a shoulder bag and weighs nearly 3x more.

Rumor has it Canon is about to announce a new APS sized mirrorless camera, if that is the direction you are headed...

http://photorumors.com/2013/12/02/the-latest-canon-rumors-eos-m2-to-be-announced-soon-specifications-leaked/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+PhotoRumors+%28PhotoRumors.com%29

I've never even held a mirrorless in my hand so I have some learning to do. Seems like a good excuse to plan a trip to NY where most everything will be available for side-by-side comparison... See the store windows, check out the Rockefeller tree and spend some time at B&H.

I've never even held a mirrorless in my hand so I have some learning to do. Seems like a good excuse to plan a trip to NY where most everything will be available for side-by-side comparison... See the store windows, check out the Rockefeller tree and spend some time at B&H.

Light a candle for me at B&H! I really need to make the pilgrimage someday....

Enjoy!

Dave

I'm a Nikon guy and even I an looking real close at the new FF mirror less from Sony. I just need more research to figure out the lens system and adapters for other lenses. The small size has me very interested.

Sent using a small piece of fruit.

Light a candle for me at B&H! I really need to make the pilgrimage someday....

 

^^^This!!!

Rumor has it Canon is about to announce a new APS sized mirrorless camera, if that is the direction you are headed...

 

http://photorumors.com/2013/12/02/the-latest-canon-rumors-eos-m2-to-be-announced-soon-specifications-leaked/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+PhotoRumors+%28PhotoRumors.com%29

Just announced: http://www.dpreview.com/news/2013/12/03/canon-announces-eos-m2-in-japan

Apparently no plans to market it in the US or Europe.

Dave

Air tickets have been bought and a hotel reserved on the east side. It's a hike but I can walk to B&H in about 15 minutes. If you have never been it can be quite an experience. I recall the last time I was looking for a camera bag. A sales guy introduced himself on the floor and asked what I was looking for. Bla, bla, bla and he says "wait here, I'll be right back". He came back with copies of my camera & all the lenses I wanted to carry and we went through trying them in the bags to make sure I got the right one.

I've been a long time Canon user so I initially wanted to stay with them because of my familiarity with their menu systems but they have squat for lenses. I just can't bring myself to pay $800+ for the new ES-M2 when they only have two kit lenses as an option. Surprisingly Olympus (a name I have not though of in 20 years) has quite a lens selection as do Panasonic, Nikon and Sony.

After a bit of researching I'm more confused than when I began. As expected the "perfect camera" does not exist. I am enticed by the possibility of reducing the 3.8 pound cary weight of my normal walking set-up but what I really want is the difficult question. A mirrorless version of the DSLR? A smaller replaceable lense mirrorless? Or a large sensor pocket camera? I think it's really going to take getting some cameras in my hand and seeing if one speaks to me like Harry's wand.

After a bit of researching I'm more confused than when I began. As expected the "perfect camera" does not exist. I am enticed by the possibility of reducing the 3.8 pound cary weight of my normal walking set-up but what I really want is the difficult question. A mirrorless version of the DSLR? A smaller replaceable lense mirrorless? Or a large sensor pocket camera? I think it's really going to take getting some cameras in my hand and seeing if one speaks to me like Harry's wand.

Sadly, the perfect camera for all situations continues to be two (or three) cameras...

Best of luck on your journey!

Dave

I doubt that the camera that I just bought is mirrorless (I have no idea what that means :confused:.

I had a Canon Powershot S5 IS with 8 megapixel and 12x zoom. At the time, the next step up was a DSLR. It has all the manual modes as well as other modes controlled by the camera

I recently purchased the Canon PowerShot SX50 HS with 12 megapixel and 50x optical zoom. Very similar to the old camera but I think there must be a ton of other options buried in menus because the dial has all the manual modes but less of the others

It's actually lighter then the old camera but I think that's because the body is not metal anymore.

The old camera used AA batteries while this one uses a proprietary battery.

I can't wait to use this on my South America cruise next month!

I also have a small Fuji waterproof for beach trips. Doesn't take nearly as nice of a picture but it serves it's purpose.

Good luck with whatever you do.

It's actually

 

So, does anyone have guidance or advice to offer?

 

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I'm no fan of mirror-less system. The steadying effects of an SLR are all striped away -locked elbows, camera pressed to the brow, and, commonly, a bit of a stabilizer system-- guarantee crooked shots, poor composition, and trouble seeing the screen.

All of these things matter to photographers, but not the point and shoot crowd. So if you're resigned to going that direction, I'd recommend a top of the line point and shoot camera and skip the expense and complication of a mirrorless system all together.

I'm no fan of mirror-less system. The steadying effects of an SLR are all striped away -locked elbows, camera pressed to the brow, and, commonly, a bit of a stabilizer system-- guarantee crooked shots, poor composition, and trouble seeing the screen.

 

All of these things matter to photographers, but not the point and shoot crowd. So if you're resigned to going that direction, I'd recommend a top of the line point and shoot camera and skip the expense and complication of a mirrorless system all together.

It appears you have not seen Sony's new A7 and A7R full frame mirrorless systems.

Sent using a small piece of fruit.

I'm no fan of mirror-less system. The steadying effects of an SLR are all striped away -locked elbows, camera pressed to the brow, and, commonly, a bit of a stabilizer system-- guarantee crooked shots, poor composition, and trouble seeing the screen.

 

All of these things matter to photographers, but not the point and shoot crowd. So if you're resigned to going that direction, I'd recommend a top of the line point and shoot camera and skip the expense and complication of a mirrorless system all together.

My experience is quite different. I find that shooting with the viewfinder, the overall steadying effect is no different whether I'm shooting with the DSLR or the NEX-7. You still pull the elbows in and use your face to steady the camera. Using the LCD for low or high angle shots is virtually the same...except the NEX is actually easier to steady because of the weight.

Like the OP, I have a DSLR system so I am already a victim of complexity and expense. Moving to the smaller form factor didn't really impact my shooting style and certainly didn't impact image quality. When I shoot sports or wildlife with a long lens, the DSLR is still preferred but for (non-Alaska) travel where I shoot nearly everything wide to normal, the reduced kit size is a real blessing. The 16-50, a couple of primes, the Lensbaby, fisheye and the 55-210 weigh less than my 70-200 f/2.8 and take up about the same amount of space! Add the fact that the NEX-7 body is about the same size and the Canon G series P&S and you end up with a great combination of versatility and portability.

Moving up from a P&S, the learning curve is similar for DSLR and Mirrorless but for a DSLR owner looking to travel lighter, it's hard to dismiss mirrorless as a valid option.

Then again, the new RX-10 bridge camera may have an impact on both the travel-lighter and step-up market....

Dave

I'm no fan of mirror-less system. The steadying effects of an SLR are all striped away -locked elbows, camera pressed to the brow, and, commonly, a bit of a stabilizer system-- guarantee crooked shots, poor composition, and trouble seeing the screen.

All of those things you mention are based on shooting with only an LCD...what you may not realize is that quite a few mirrorless systems have viewfinders, either built in or optional, therefore the shooting stance and technique is no different than it is with a DSLR. And in fact, many DSLR shooters ALSO shoot with mirrorless cameras - finding them a more compact version of the same -still shooting them the same way, still through the viewfinder, still with the same controls and settings.

All of these things matter to photographers, but not the point and shoot crowd. So if you're resigned to going that direction, I'd recommend a top of the line point and shoot camera and skip the expense and complication of a mirrorless system all together.

Unfortunately, some photographers are quick to judge from lack of any real world experience...I run across it all the time, especially when I'm actually shooting with my mirrorless camera. I get to talking with some DSLR shooters, and they start to mention what they perceive as the 'shortcomings' of my system...and why DSLRs are better and I'd know that had I tried a DSLR instead. When I reach in my bag and whip out my DSLR, they realize that argument went out the window, and when I show them what I can do with the mirrorless, and how it shoots, feels, works, and handles just like my DSLR but smaller, they start to open up to the idea. I brought my mirrorless along to a photography gathering last year - everyone there is a serious photographer, most with full-frame DSLRs and significant lens collections, many with two bodies. There were only two mirrorless cams there - the other shooter was dedicated mirrorless so I think somehow not taken as seriously...I was a known DSLR shooter who was using the mirrorless as a second body. After the 5-day event, there had been dozens of questions about the system, several had tried it out, and many expressed quite a bit of surprise about their rush to judgement about it, and now finding it very interesting. Last week we had our annual meet again. 5 other DSLR shooters from last year now had mirrorless cameras as their second bodies. And by the way, all 7 mirrorless cameras on hand had viewfinders.

It appears you have not seen Sony's new A7 and A7R full frame mirrorless systems.

 

 

 

 

Sent using a small piece of fruit.

You're right. Interesting.

I'm a Nikon D610 and Sony NEX-7 user. I love to light weight of the NEX but it takes a while to become proficient... But its pix are as good as the D610. I always want RAW+JPEG, and lens flexibility... Otherwise i use my iphone.

I think I would love a mirrorless system and will probably end up there eventually. Just from my research online I'm liking the NEX-6 and would love to see what follows the NEX-7. Lenses are the big thing preventing me from getting too excited for the NEX system. A good quality zoom about 16-40 or 50mm and f2.8 through the whole zoom range and I probably would have clicked "buy" by now. Micro 4/3 has some lenses that interest me but I'm not as enamored with the cameras. I think after a couple more years to mature I might just toss my DSL altogether and go mirrorless but not yet... "Hi, my name is Golilocks nothing is perfect and I'm a camera addict..."

Right now the Sony RX100ii is probably highest on my list. Not as big a sensor and more pixels than I'd like but from the reviews it seems to be the ticket for a premium pocket camera with a zoom. I've tried considering other large sensor pocket cameras but a fixed focal length lens bolted to the camera, terrifies me for some reason. I'd probably end up falling in a canal or step on an alligator trying to get just a bit closer for the shot.

I think I would love a mirrorless system and will probably end up there eventually. Just from my research online I'm liking the NEX-6 and would love to see what follows the NEX-7. Lenses are the big thing preventing me from getting too excited for the NEX system. A good quality zoom about 16-40 or 50mm and f2.8 through the whole zoom range and I probably would have clicked "buy" by now. Micro 4/3 has some lenses that interest me but I'm not as enamored with the cameras. I think after a couple more years to mature I might just toss my DSL altogether and go mirrorless but not yet... "Hi, my name is Golilocks nothing is perfect and I'm a camera addict..."

 

Right now the Sony RX100ii is probably highest on my list. Not as big a sensor and more pixels than I'd like but from the reviews it seems to be the ticket for a premium pocket camera with a zoom. I've tried considering other large sensor pocket cameras but a fixed focal length lens bolted to the camera, terrifies me for some reason. I'd probably end up falling in a canal or step on an alligator trying to get just a bit closer for the shot.

I have been using the 16-50 compact zoom on my NEX-7 lately for a walkabout lens and am rather surprised at the quality of the images. When I want edge to edge sharpness and f/2.8, I have the Sigma 19mm and 30mm primes. Amazing quality in a budget package. With the phenomenal increase in high-ISO image quality over the last few years, I'm starting to lean towards a more compact f/4 over an f/2.8. This seems to be the reasoning behind the new Zeiss FE 24-70 f/4 coming out in January for the A7/A7r.

It just keeps getting better and better, doesn't it?

Dave

Going to B&H is always sort of like climbing Delphi, taking a number and getting to talk to an Oracle for as long as it takes. I explained my situation and got "hold on a sec #### is the one you want to talk to". Sure enough ### had the same gear as I and had almost the same issues. About half an hour later I ended up getting a Sony RX100ii which is a pocketable, premium point and shoot with a 1" sensor.

The RX has a smaller sensor than I wanted but so far it's photos and low light abilities are not disappointing. It offers all the functionality and control of a DSLR but in a rather small package. Most buttons can be programmed to control whatever you want to I have to say I love the control aspects. Learning what button controls what is a learning curve I'm slowly mastering. I have to say though that I love having a camera with me all the time and not the burden of 4lbs hanging around my neck.

I think in another year or so I'll revisit the camera decision. The Sony NEX 6 really spoke to me. Micro 4/3 had some lenses I liked but I did not like the cameras as much as the Sony's. Hopefully in a few years the segment will progress to the point I can more seriously consider downsizing my DSLR to mirrorless. I was ever so close to getting a NEX 6 or 7 on this trip but felt it was too close to my DSLR in that it required wearing around the neck but I can really see the potential and it's probably where I'm heading in the next couple years. So far the RX100ii is producing some great photos but you can only move your hands so fast when holding something so small and trying to click buttons.