OceanCruise

Why should healthy people have to wear masks just to make you feel safe? For those of you interested in the actual science, this NIH Study from this month involved 455 people and determined practically no spread of Covid from people who had Covid but were asymptomatic. 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32405162/?fbclid=IwAR2q2NxWgFpKPLjqd-vKY7meWJ-pgGHb-CITNM8WoZ8lg8Ftc7dE1hN5iGU

Also, this link contains a list of recent research showing masks are not effective against influenza-like illnesses

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/340570735_Masks_Don't_Work_A_review_of_science_relevant_to_COVID-19_social_policy

If masks work, why do we have to social distance? If social distance works, why do we have to wear masks? If masks and social distrancing work, why are many places still on lockdown? If masks work, why are they releasing prisoners from prisons instead of just giving them masks? If it is ok to be without a mask on a pool deck or restaurant, why can't I be with the very same people at another venue without a mask?

I am Elite on Celebrity and presently have a suite booked on an 11 night Equinox cruise in September. I can access my reservation but not my cruise planner so I think that is a sign this cruise may not be happening. Because I am also concerned the first few cruises will not be a standard cruise experience, I called Celebrity to do a lift and shift. There are NO 11 night Equinox cruises offered next year so I said, fine, switch me to another 11 night cruise on a different ship, I don't care what the itinerary or date is, just give me the same home port. I spent an hour on the phone with them and the lowdown is they refused to do this because it "must" be the same ship, even though there is no 11 night itinerary at all for this ship. The only thing they offered was a FCC that I could apply to a 12 night Equinox cruise or an 11 night Reflection cruise which would be 2-3 times the price of my original cruise. NO THANKS! Celebrity, I am very disappointed.

I am not here to debate mask wearing or what changes are necessary for passenger and crew safety but rather just to express extreme sadness and vent that cruising may never be the same. We pay a big premium to cruise in suites and have a truly relaxing, pampering vacation. We really enjoy room service, twice daily room cleaning, the comraderie in Michael's Club, casino and trivia games, etc. and I am very sad thinking that many of the small pleasures that entice us to cruise may never be the same. Will staterooms now be cleaned, perhaps, only twice weekly? Will room service no longer be set up in the stateroom? I don't want to be on a vacation where it looks like a hospital with everyone wearing masks. Who wants embarkation pictures or formal pictures wearing masks? I don't want a spa treatment where I can't relax because I can hardly breathe with a mask on. Forget about having any meet and greets with the Captain or dining at the Captain's table. I don't want to see passengers yelling at each other if someone doesn't use sanitizer, wear a mask or happens to intrude on social distancing space. How is that a fun and relaxing vacation that I am spending a ton of money on? I am so bummed and wondering for the first time ever if a cruise will be worth going on, given the costs and likely decline in services/experiences. I think of all the heated discussions on these boards when just the little things were eliminated like chocolates on the pillows, towel animals, free sodas and midnight buffets. This situation will take changes to a whole new level.

Not a big fan of buffets but use some common sense methods to protect myself. I do the "washy washy" upon entering and carry a small container of Purell or wipes and make sure to sanitize my hands again when sitting down before eating. I don't choose buffet foods where I can see that someone has put the back end of the serving tongs are all the way in a dish (thus contaminating it) and I usually use tongs to grab food underneath the top layer or in the very back of the serving dish. I am pretty disciplined about not touching my face and very cognizant about touching chairs, menus and shared condiments (salt and pepper shakers, ketchup, etc) so I will use the Purell again after handling those. 

What source would you use then for official US statistics besides the CDC? Also, it is important to distinguish statistics regarding death WITH Covid versus death FROM Covid. 

11 minutes ago, markeb said:

 

You do understand that's not what that graph shows? The orange trend line is expected number of deaths during that time period.  Only the last few bars have anything to do with COVID-19, and the actual deaths are all above the trend line for that period? The trend line predicts that deaths from all causes should be trending down; the blue bars and + signs are actual data. For the April 18 reporting period, over 28% of actual deaths were "excess". 

The graph you described is not the link I provided. Here it is again. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm

If you go to my link and scroll down you can see CDC statistics/case numbers from week to week in the US. It shows April 11 as being peak with 13,000 deaths from Covid. Every week since then Covid mortality has declined. My link also shows weekly deaths from pneumonia, influenza and percentage of overall deaths. Surprisingly influenza deaths are extremely low this year.

2014-2015 influenza deaths 51,000

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2014-2015.html

8 minutes ago, ECCruise said:

Could you provide a citation for that data?  I am finding nothing even remotely close to what you are claiming, not from the CDC, not from the University of Washington study, not from anywhere. 

Most data indicates a mortality rate between 10 and 15 times higher than seasonal influenza.  Would love it if your data was right, though.

1 minute ago, ECCruise said:

Could you provide a citation for that data?  I am finding nothing even remotely close to what you are claiming, not from the CDC, not from the University of Washington study, not from anywhere. 

Most data indicates a mortality rate between 10 and 15 times higher than seasonal influenza.  Would love it if your data was right, though.

27 minutes ago, npcl said:

The masks are not intended to provide filtering of the air for the recipient.  What they are very effective at is to reduce the velocity of virus infected droplets from an infected individual.  Capturing some, but mostly taking droplets that might travel a fairly considerable distance, and shortening the distance considerably.  Thus reducing the chance of infecting others.

 

https://www.cnn.com/videos/health/2020/05/04/cough-coronavirus-masks-kaye-pkg-vpx.cnn

 

The infected person does not really have to worry about handling their mask because they are already infected. If those asymptomatic (as well as anyone with any symptoms are all, are wearing masks  then the odds of viruses actually making it to the mask of others is quite low.

 

Your understanding of the intent of mask use in the general public, which is to protect others, by reducing spread, not by providing a virus proof barrier for the yourself, seems to be on par with you understanding the the medical statistics.  

 

 

I think there are multiple issues if rapid testing is required. First of all, there are many false positives. Secondly, someone could be negative today and positive tomorrow. Thirdly, it becomes a slippery slope when you start collecting people's DNA. Who then has access to one's private medical information? Where exactly would you draw the line for screening for communicable diseases? X-rays to see if people have tuberculosis? After all, that is more communicable and deadly. What about stool samples for norovirus? Rapid tests for strep? Blood tests for hepatitis? Yes, of course those are obviously extreme examples but you get the idea when you start to give up your civil liberties for the greater good and I don't want to catch those diseases from someone else. Studies also show that bandanas and many homemade cloth masks are ineffective at filtering Covid particles, so why are those even considered acceptible? Even if you use medical masks, they must be used properly which probably 99% of the people (besides health workers) don't do. They are supposed to be used only once, not be touched at all while on the face, and hands should be washed before and after use. What do people do with their masks when eating? Put them on the table and thus spread germs? Go swimming then reuse the mask you have been breathing or coughing into then touch the chair, elevator buttons and handrails? If you look at the actual CDC statistics, mortality rate from Covid is no greater than seasonal flu in prior years. In fact, deaths from influenza is at an all time low. Is it possible hospitals are misclassifying Covid deaths because that diagnosis is reimbursed at a much higher rate than influenza or pneumonia? According to CDC, total deaths from all causes in the US are only 98% of expected deaths based on prior years so there is no actual surge in deaths (As of May 8). 

Happy to help answer any questions as we have learned a lot by trial and error when traveling. The biggest issue is planning ahead and scheduling activities around the dialysis routine in terms of timing for early shore excursions or breakfast in the restaurant, particularly if you want to attend entertainment the night before. I posted the info below on another thread regarding carrying on the equipment and supplies:

For the machine we use a medium size flexible plastic hard-sided piece of luggage on wheels (Atlantic Brand Odyssey Collection 24") and place a luggage strap around the outside of the case. We pack the cycler with bubble wrap around it along with as many supplies we can fit in it snugly. On the handle we attach  laminated tags we made that say Medical Device-Fragile. The company who makes your machine may also sell a travel case meant for the device so you should check for that. If their case doesn't have wheels you will need something to wheel it as it would be too heavy to carry around. For a cruise you will need a second carry on (probably 24") for the rest of the supplies. Make sure you measure the inside of the luggage carefully and ensure it will also accomodate the height of the machine with the internal extending handle mechanism. We bring these as carry ons and they fit through the security scanner. One of us gets dropped off and waits outside the terminal with the luggage while the other parks the car. 

For the machine we use a medium size flexible plastic hard-sided piece of luggage on wheels (Atlantic Brand Odyssey Collection 24") and place a luggage strap around the outside of the case. We pack the cycler with bubble wrap around it along with as many supplies we can fit in it snugly. On the handle we attach  laminated tags we made that say Medical Device-Fragile. The company who makes your machine may also sell a travel case meant for the device so you should check for that. If their case doesn't have wheels you will need something to wheel it as it would be too heavy to carry around. For a cruise you will need a second carry on (probably 24") for the rest of the supplies. Make sure you measure the inside of the luggage carefully and ensure it will also accomodate the height of the machine with the internal extending handle mechanism. We bring these as carry ons and they fit through the security scanner. One of us gets dropped off and waits outside the terminal with the luggage while the other parks the car. Also, the info below is what I posted on another thread:

We have only dealt with Baxter delivering supplies to Celebrity in Florida but hopefully some of this info will be of help. One cruise it took 3 hours for the ship to find the boxes that were delivered at 8 am yet on another cruise the boxes were already waiting in the room as soon as we got there. Get to ship as early as possible and notify check-in person you are having medical supplies delivered to ship and ask to check your stateroom right away when you board. You should contact Baxter several months in advance. Baxter will only deliver the solution and they charge several hundred dollars to do this. You will have to bring everything else in carry-on luggage---all cartridges, gloves, disinfectants, etc. He will also need to bring drain bags ( as the toilet systems are different and would overflow) and then manually drain the bags in the toilet when done and periodically flush which takes awhile and is awkward. We were instructed by ship that all drain waste must go in the toilet. If he uses a cycler machine you will need to order a couple of extra boxes plus manual boxes in case there is any issue with power or the machine. It ends up being a lot of boxes and supplies so we get a suite for the extra room. Baxter will not take back any unused boxes so we ask the room steward/butler to dispose of them at the end of the cruise. Be sure to fill out a special needs form for the cruiseline to request an extension cord, bathroom scale, deep cleaning of room, etc. When we first meet the room steward we ask him to remove all decorative throw pillows, provide new bed pillows and ask that engineering change the air conditioning filter. We bring 2 along boxes of the disposable kleenex brand paper bathroom towels for the handwashing routine and enough kitchen garbage bags to place daily wrappings, used gloves, etc. Amazon sells healthcare grade clorox wipes with bleach in travel size packets. Usually there is a vanity or desk the cycler machine can go on in the stateroom. If you are staying in a hotel before the cruise, call a week or two ahead ahead and ask for an actual contact person you can email regarding disability concerns. Email that person and request disability needs for a deep clean of room,  bathroom scale, no throw pillows, air filter change, etc. For hotels we ask for a flat top wheeled room service cart to remain in the room to place the machine on (this works great), plus an extension cord just in case. This has worked out extremely well for us. Consider bringing a plastic urinal for him just in case the toilet is too far from the bed and machine cord. Have his doctor provide a short medical summary and list of medications to bring along just in case. Make sure he brings along emergency antibiotics for peritonitis if he has a prescription for them because they are not part of the daily medication routine and can easily be forgotten. Let me know if you have other questions. It is very doable but it does take a lot of planning. If you are flying, that is a whole other set of problems.

There are some occassional cruises on Celebrity (and possibly RCCL and others) that offer dialysis onboard through a company called "Dialysis at Sea"  where a nephrologist and renal nurses will be on board.

We have only dealt with Baxter delivering supplies to Celebrity in Florida but hopefully some of this info will be of help. One cruise it took 3 hours for the ship to find the boxes that were delivered at 8 am yet on another cruise the boxes were already waiting in the room as soon as we got there. Get to ship as early as possible and notify check-in person you are having medical supplies delivered to ship and ask to check your stateroom right away when you board. You should contact Baxter several months in advance. Baxter will only deliver the solution and they charge several hundred dollars to do this. You will have to bring everything else in carry-on luggage---all cartridges, gloves, disinfectants, etc. He will also need to bring drain bags ( as the toilet systems are different and would overflow) and then manually drain the bags in the toilet when done and periodically flush which takes awhile and is awkward. We were instructed by ship that all drain waste must go in the toilet. If he uses a cycler machine you will need to order a couple of extra boxes plus manual boxes in case there is any issue with power or the machine. It ends up being a lot of boxes and supplies so we get a suite for the extra room. Baxter will not take back any unused boxes so we ask the room steward/butler to dispose of them at the end of the cruise. Be sure to fill out a special needs form for the cruiseline to request an extension cord, bathroom scale, deep cleaning of room, etc. When we first meet the room steward we ask him to remove all decorative throw pillows, provide new bed pillows and ask that engineering change the air conditioning filter. We bring 2 along boxes of the disposable kleenex brand paper bathroom towels for the handwashing routine and enough kitchen garbage bags to place daily wrappings, used gloves, etc. Amazon sells healthcare grade clorox wipes with bleach in travel size packets. Usually there is a vanity or desk the cycler machine can go on in the stateroom. If you are staying in a hotel before the cruise, call a week or two ahead ahead and ask for an actual contact person you can email regarding disability concerns. Email that person and request disability needs for a deep clean of room,  bathroom scale, no throw pillows, air filter change, etc. For hotels we ask for a flat top wheeled room service cart to remain in the room to place the machine on (this works great), plus an extension cord just in case. This has worked out extremely well for us. Consider bringing a plastic urinal for him just in case the toilet is too far from the bed and machine cord. Have his doctor provide a short medical summary and list of medications to bring along just in case. Make sure he brings along emergency antibiotics for peritonitis if he has a prescription for them because they are not part of the daily medication routine and can easily be forgotten. Let me know if you have other questions. It is very doable but it does take a lot of planning. If you are flying, that is a whole other set of problems.

The sky suite only has 2 plugs by the vanity/desk. The steward will supply an extension cord and tape it across the floor if you need it for a CPAP.  be sure to fill out the special needs form ahead of time for this.

We recently did a Reflection sailing out of Ft Lauderdale. We had a sky suite and were directed to a separate lounge area and checked in with staff at an actual counter there.  It was all very quick.

We had a pen in our recent sky suite on Reflection

We usually cruise 1-2 times per year in a suite and prefer booking on board for the low deposits and extra perks. We have some circumstances for which we are not sure if we will be able to cruise for awhile after this year. Does Celebrity still do open bookings for future cruises and, if so, what is the time frame that you have to pick an actual cruise? Also, what is the time frame for future cruise credit if I end up having to change that sailing? For example, if I book a cruise, say for for the end of 2021, can I transfer the onboard booking perks/future cruise credit once the new sailings come out for 2022 or early 2023? I realize there would likely be a $100 pp change fee so not sure if this plan is even worth it.

Barbados: We have done private excursion with Calabaza day sail several times and it was great.  We have also done the ship's excursions to Harrison's caves and George Washington house which were both enjoyable. 

St Lucia: We did the Segway ship excursion several times as it was a lot of fun and included more than just riding the Segways. Also have taken private island tour with Spencer Ambrose

St Kitts: Ship excursion swimming with dolphins involved quite a bit of one-on-one time in water with dolphins and was lots of fun. Have also done private tour with Thenford Gray. This port has a lot of shops within walking distance.

St Martin: Orient beach is gorgeous but is a bit of a ride to other side of island. We did the ship excursion Flavors of St Martin tour and it was just ok IMO, although is a good way to see the island if you have not been there before

St Thomas: Went to St John taking the ferry with ship excursion and also on our own (easy but more stressful with timing). It is one of the nicest beaches we have been to. If you don't want to spend a large part of the day getting there and back, the Secret Sands ship excursion also goes to a nice, uncrowded beach

We enjoyed doing the ship Behind the Scenes Access tour on sea day even though we have done several free galley, and bridge tours before. It was really interesting to see the laundry, recycling, provision room and crew areas.

FYI, there are occasional sales on ship excursions so keep checking prices even after you book

We had a sky suite there and would book that location again. The magic carpet went up and down maybe 2 times daily just for a couple of minutes. 

Thank you for starting this thread. We usually stay in a sky suite and our tips vary based on overall service and any special requests we make: room steward $20-$40, Luminae waiter $25-$50, Luminae assistant waiter around $15, Luminae hostess 0- $10, maitre'd 0-$20 (usually $10) , wine steward $10 (occasionally $20) as we usually just order the same 1-2 wines at dinner. Regarding butlers, we usually tip $20-40 but one butler got nothing extra because we barely saw him and this past cruise we tipped our butler $75 because he did quite a bit for us. For Michael's Club concierge and bartender 0-$20 depending on if we are there a lot or not.

I wasn't aware of that site. Thank you.

We usually cruise with Celebrity. A family member does not have any mobility issues per se but this person has a documented disability requiring use of several electronic medical devices and has to have a lot of boxes of medical supplies delivered to the stateroom. Most of the supplies need to remain in the room so storage elsewhere is not an option. All this requires a lot of extra room to maneuver and for safety. A regular stateroom is not really big enough to manage so in the past we have booked a suite and that worked out pretty well. As suite prices are very costly, we are wondering if an accessible stateroom would be approriate in this situation. Would this person be at risk of being bumped from the room if someone with a scooter or wheelchair needs it after we book it? While I assume an accessible bathroom is larger, how else is it different than a regular stateroom bathroom? 

Samll bottle of toiletries are provided but we never use those as we prefer to bring our own name brands. If you do not like what the ship provides, the ship's gift shop will have a small selection of brand name toiletries for sale. They are not always displayed out in the open but, if you ask the sales clerk, they will show you the drawer full of items available for purchase. Also, the ports always have some shops that sell toiletries.