cruisingrob21

13 hours ago, cruiser3775 said:

Where on the ship is the library?

deck 7, just before the atrium.  Shares a space with the "Tea lounge"

They have this booklet now which has the deckplans for some ships.  But their deckplans show much less detail than they did 6 or 7 years ago (showed dining room table configurations).

https://www.princess.com/html/global/brochures/pc/princess-cruise-experience.pdf

edit - my mistake, it doesn't show the deckplans for all ships.  But I thought I heard a while back on a TA call that the physical brochures were coming back in one form or another later this year.

Princess used to run 1 day cruises between Vancouver and Seattle for repositioning purposes, but only HAL does those now.  They probably changed that to a 2 day voyage so they can run out the straight of juan de fuca into international waters, and open the casino.  On these short cruises, I would imagine that the casino is the money maker when compared to all other onboard venues, especially if the weather is poor and people stay inside.

11 hours ago, Heartgrove said:

I believe that there is internal turmoil within Carnival Corporation which could bring more change. What is the future of Costa Crociere?  Two ships have been transfered from Costa Crociere to Carnival Cruise Lines this year with a third next year. Those three are similar to two classes that Carnival already sails. The Costa Deliziosa is referred to as a hybrid Vista/Spirit-class. Appearance wise and deck layout it is similar to the HAL Vista/Pinnacle classes. If Costa would thin its fleet even more could HAL become a possible recipient of the Costa Deliziosa? It's sister ship, the Costa Luminosa now sail as the Carnival Luminosa. That might help with an easy and absorbable increase in the HAL fleet.

I've wondered the same thing myself about Costa ships and being transferred to HAL if the need arose.

I'm sure CCL brass will be having a chat with that harbormaster.  Not good for skagway businesses either.  I wouldn't be surprised if threats are lobbied about moving some of the bigger ships to other ports because of this.

9 hours ago, RedIguana said:

I remember reading some of the Pilot reports from a few years back when they were trying to get the Royal approved. I was shocked that Princess was still building ships without azipods. I know the larger ships avoid the narrows and travel the Gulf of Alaska side. On Crown last month we went the outside leaving Vancouver and the narrows coming back, I assume it might have something to do with the current speed in the direction of travel (who wants to fight an 11 knot current?). The Crown was actually using tugs for docking assistance, something I haven't seen in ages (most cruises on RCL). 

The last Sitmar ship (ss Fairsky II, which became the original ss Sky Princess) was steam powered.  Yep, designed in the 80s using steam power - the SS Sky Princess.  The Sitmar technical branch was comfortable with that technology and supposedly had felt confident in their operating staff to manage it.  Princess bought Sitmar shortly after the Fairsky started sailing.  I'm sure at the time most folks in the industry thought the Sitmar folks were stuck in their ways.  Princess knew what they bought when they got 3 steamships in the deal - but I doubt there were technical reasons for the acquisition, probably more business related to squash a competitive peer.  Fortunately, the next Sitmar ship, the Fair Majesty, was still in design and it was possible to change to a motor ship before she debuted as the first Star Princess.  

But as you stated, Princess developing a class of 6 ships without azipods (when the technology had been around since the late 90s) was a bit of a goof. 

8 minutes ago, cr8tiv1 said:

I wonder how many veterans will sell their stock now?  Oh, I forgot, the stock is worthless at this time.  

It depends when you purchased.  The shares I bought last year at $10 are up over 50%, but the rest purchased before the pandemic are still in the red 

8 minutes ago, VibeGuy said:

The Royal class has two problems from Vancouver.  One is clearance at the Lions Gate Bridge.  Any ship of a certain height regardless of passenger capacity or other design details is subject to these restrictions.   There are some departure and arrival times that get moved around to accommodate these height restrictions on many lines, largely due to tidal conditions. 
 

The other problem is more complicated than just size alone.  Enter Seymour Narrows.  It’s a channel about 2/3rds of the way up Vancouver Island and, for a variety reasons (geographic, hydrologic, meteorological) of  it is one of the more challenging stretches of water to navigate in vessels of any size.  The water flow is exceptionally turbulent.   In vessels with azimuthing propulsion, full engine power can be directed in any direction.  In vessels with conventional fixed propellers, like every Princess ship to date, directional control is mostly limited to the rudder and asymmetric thrust between the propellers.   Expert opinion from local pilots is that the manoeuvrability of the Royal class is insufficient relative to size and the conditions likely to be encountered in the Narrows and they won’t provide pilotage.  No pilotage, the insurers won’t cover the ship.  Technically it fits, technically they’re allowed to sail the waters, but if you can’t use a pilot and the insurance pools say you need to use a pilot in certain waters, this is where you end up.  

I think it’s possible to practically serve Vancouver with vessels up to about 175,000GT - it’s just hard to arrange more tonnage than that in a practical way and fit inside the various limitations.   Coincidentally, Sun and Star Princess will both be in that range and have more manoeuvrability than the Royal class (azmiuthing pod propulsion and brawnier bow thrusters).  
 

Princess doesn’t need to go bigger than that but their ability to be financially successful in their market space is improved by being closer to that than to 2000-passenger vessels. 

 

Great post.

Seymour narrows is spectacular to sail through - if I recall its the most naturally turbulent channel in the world (for folks in fluid mechanics related fields, it has a reynolds number of over 10,000,000,000 which is impressive when "turbulent" conditions starts around 2900).  The rest of the inside passage is stunning to sail through.

Princess and the cruise industry is at the point where perhaps airlines were a few years back with very low prices.  If they could get you on at a loss, they could make up for it with bags, drinks, snacks, 'premium seating locations within the economy cabin', etc etc.  Coming out of covid, if they could get the boats 60 or 70% full, and with some strong onboard spending, they could break even or make a profit.  Now with the ships packed to the gills and people spending a lot, there is a lot of incentive to build bigger ships.  I think RCCL leadership indicated they can make money on oasis class ships if the ship is only 70% full due to scale.

Big ships will work for the cruise line for a while - in a year or two when prices have to come down because all the normal folks (non cruise critic posters 🙂 ) got their "every other year cruise fix" the demand should stabilize.  The lines will be left with fewer ships than before the pandemic but more capacity than before and ships that can go to fewer ports due to size restrictions.

But will the lines build smaller ships? - not until they have to.  If you want a smaller ship now without paying obscene prices, your choices are the older X ships, HAL ships, and a handful of older ships on other lines - most of which will be deployed on more far flung itineraries.

This is not new - they re-use maps with slight changes all the time.  But I agree, this map appears to be way off.

If the cruise you are booked on changed and its not what you want to sail on, sounds like you need to cancel.

1 hour ago, snoozecrooze said:

I'd lean on the side of "dreaming" right now, but you never know. I just don't feel like CCL has a ton of money it can allocate to vanity projects like the Marketplace buffet design, because it's not really a necessary change to make, and CCL just has too much debt at this time. Again, though, you never know; hopefully, someone with some insights can share with us the plans.

Tough to say - with few new ships on order for Princess and CCL as a whole (Star and Sun were being developed back before covid), there is still a need to invest in onboard amenities.  While Princess won't try to compete with some of the amenities on NCL, Royal, and even Celebrity's newest ships, some remodeling might be in order.  Remodeling might be minimal, but for Princess to say "the Ruby Princess was recently refreshed with a new take on the Horizon Court" that may be enough to help her compete a bit better with newer ships.  Unfortunately for Carnival, Princess, and HAL, the majority of their fleets were constructed before 2010 and most of those ships will likely be entering the time of typical replacement for modern, 1st tier cruise ships (25 years).  CCL doesn't have the balance sheet now, or likely in the next 5-10 years to replace tonnage at the rate it may need replacement.  I could see lots of remodels as well maybe even lengthening?

Need to check booking parameters - if the initial booking was a non refundable deposit (which princess is doing much more now than before covid, especially on "low" categories like IF, OZ, BW, BF, ME), your friend might lose out on a portion or all of the deposit if they cancel and rebook.

14 hours ago, brisalta said:

 

The Grand has slightly larger showers and cabin space. Corridors are slightly wider. Has a covered pool. Hand washing sinks in the Horizon Court. Actual dedicated pastry area in the Horizon Court with an ice cream freezer. Spirits of the Seas is larger. Has an Alfredo's. Has actual teak on the promenade unlike the ugly yellow painted surface on the Ruby. Those are just a few of the things.

Yes, grand cabins are slightly different layout but the size is essentially the same.  The walk-in closet on subsequent grand class ships is a better layout than the original grand cabins, in my opinion.  The Ruby could end up getting the updated buffet area like the grand has, and other grand class ships have had retrofitted.  It could also get Alfredo's.

Agree about the teak vs vinyl (or whatever the yellow painted surface is) but that's pretty common on all ships now.  The grand was designed in the early to mid 90s - it was a different time.  While the layout of the early grand class ships is different and the venues were shifted around, they are still more alike than not (all entertainment lounges are on deck 7, dining rooms on decks 6 and 5, 4 main pools topside) so I'm still confused how the ruby can be that much of a different experience than the grand (or any other grand class ship).

What is "Spirits of the Seas"?

3 hours ago, brisalta said:

 

There is so much wrong with the design of the Ruby one could write a long essay.

Oxymoron of a reply - short statement about writing a long essay.

To the point, you would need to include the Crown, Emerald, and Caribbean in that essay since the first two are nearly identical sister ships, and the Caribbean is a step sister.  And on the topic of cabins, go ahead and include the Sapphire, Diamond, and somewhat the Grand, the Coral, and Island.  They all have very similar modular cabins (with the grand being the exceptions) and similar interior layouts and flow.

So what's the problem with the Ruby again that is somehow different from more than half of the fleet?  Small showers with curtains have been the bane of princess cruisers since 1998 when the Grand debuted, and likely before that.

By default, Plus (and Premier) only is for the first 2 passengers.  You can call a TA or Princess to add it for 3rd and 4th passengers also, but since they are minors they (obviously) will not be served alcohol.  However, they do get all the mocktails and sodas they would like in addition to the other benefits.  BUT, there is no discount on the price.  If you are considering getting them the wifi, a soda package, and gratuities, it may be more cost efficient to pay for it ala-carte.

9 hours ago, Expat Cruise said:

It does seem that way. But it is also clear he is a total failure in his role from the guests side. The Medallion App was his project, it was put into use well before it was tested and ready for guests use. I believe he is also behind these 'new and improved' packages, which really overall only take more money from the average guests, and put more profit in the company's pockets. All the while providing less customer service to the guests. 

 

Under Padgett, Princess may make more money in the short term, but he will be a major factor in the downfall of Princess Cruises long term. CCL should send him back to Disney.... but Disney would not take him. 

I'm not too worried - like all of these "hired movers", they pop in for a few years, shake things up, and then are on their way to the next C suite position.  Whether we all like it or not, although Jan was brought up through the ranks, she turned out to be this person.  I forget her predecessors name but he seemed to be in the role for much longer than she was.  Most of the CCL top management has moved around and I imagine Padgett will as well.  HAL has a former Carnival VP as their CEO, and watching some of his talks and videos - it sure seems like he's looking toward the next promotion over growing HAL.

I tracked this pre-covid on a handful of voyages, both mine and other folks on cruise critic.  It was not scientific, but it seemed like there were 3 windows.  Either at some random point well before final payment, shortly after final payment, or within the last 10 days before sailing.

I would say that given how full ships are now, it will be much closer to sailing so they can continue to advertise the least expensive categories and then assign folks near sailing.  

On 5/31/2023 at 1:35 PM, SuzieQ521 said:

 

 

Regarding the "second" buffet, Caribe--is that only open for breakfast as a spillover area, or is it also open for lunch and dinner?

 

If no gelato place, then I assume nowhere to get the specialty dessert milkshakes? (my son loved those!).

 

I assume the discovery kids club is pretty much the same across all Princess ships? (maybe with different activities depending on itineary...my son loved the Royal's kids club!), so the Crown's should be similar?

 

Thanks

The second buffet is usually opened for the "theme" part of the meal (german, asian, etc) and typically only at lunch and dinner.  But I have seen it have continental breakfast type food occasionally.  It is a nice second seating area.

I'm not sure about Gelato - probably the ice cream area on Lido deck.

Kids club is similar - venues are obviously different based on the ship, but generally follow the same program and have the same amenities.

heard a rumor its going to $65 and $95 for plus and premium respectively.  No new perks.

I'm cautiously optimistic that they will make some room to bring a "plus light" plan around 30 or 35 but something tells me that's not going to happen.

Best thing to do is purchase a TA group rate as many of these include Plus for slightly less than the public Plus rate.

18 hours ago, memoak said:

But if you book guarantee then you have no option. Better to pay and book the cabin you want. For those who want to save some money go ahead and book a guarantee but you can’t complain if they give you a higher category in an area you don’t like

Agreed - booking guarantee forfeits any choice you might have - and really, its only an illusion, cruise lines can and will move you around to get a full ship, but booking guarantee means you'll be the first to get moved.  Booking a specific cabin means you'll be the last to be involuntarily moved.  It says it in the cruise contract I believe.

Did you book your Plus package before december of 2022?  They may have changed the name to minimize confusion.  The "new" $60 plus package has only been around since late in 2022 and there are still a lot of folks with the "old" plus package.

These are the last 2 ships I've sailed on.  Would go back on the Crown over the Royal any day.  In my opinion the crown is better for a few key reasons: 

• has more "higher deck", climate controlled observation areas that are quiet during the day
• the terrace pool and tiered decks off the aft are a nice quiet area
• MUTS is only at 1 main pool area and with better seating layout - the other main pool area is refreshingly quiet most of the day.
• better promenade and more external viewing areas
• Explorers lounge is better than Princess Live
• More hottubs per passenger

Only downsides to Crown:

• More cramped buffet, but second "Cafe Caribe" buffet helps
• walking track/jogging track - although the track on top of Skywalkers has amazing views, even if it is really short.
• that's it - I actually thought the crown was in better shape than the Royal, and that was right before her drydock last fall

I feel for the OP - that's a tough spot to be in.

The cabin categorization system is interesting.  Everyone has their own preference to location based on amenities as well as propensity of motion sickness.  Princess (and most cruise lines really) have sorted cabins by seemingly arbitrary categories based on proximity to the middle of deck 9 on most ships.  There are exceptions, but by and large, that's how its working.  Yet it seems like most passengers either only care about the size of the cabin (meta categories) or if there is an obstruction.  Some seasoned travelers wish to be on Lido deck, or deck 5 on Grand class ships, and there are a variety of other preferences.  I think the lesson here is that guarantee bookings are not for folks who have strong preferences about their location.

For instance, for me, on a grand class ship, I prefer insides on Lido deck or aft on Aloha/Riviera decks for proximity to the terrace pool and horizon court.  If I get an "upgrade", I only want it to a balcony - I'm rarely in my room so a window cabin isn't worth it much, and I want to be near the top decks.  So my main choices are categories IF or IE and if I don't get one of those, I'll take BF or BE cabins on the upper decks. If I get an "upgrade" from an IF or IE to an IC or IB, I'll be pretty unhappy since its basically the same room layout, in a location that I've determined is less desirable to me. 

Oh I know - fodder for cruisecritic boards 😀

7 minutes ago, Nolafan said:

Thanks @cruisingrob21and @Italy52for your insights, thoughts, and experiences! Much appreciated!!!

 

@cruisingrob21- We did consider and look into the train but as you mentioned the only 2 train times aren't convenient. The 1st one is too early ( 6:35 am ) or too late ( 5:45 pm). 

 

We have decided to just go with our initial plan of renting a car and driving there to Seattle. Between the time travel and bathroom situations we are going to stick with driving.

 

We aren't catching a plane that day so we aren't in any hurry  get to Seattle.

 

Thanks again for your advise!!!!  

I think that's a wise idea.

There are also a lot of great "side trips" on the way such as taking highway 20 and driving south on Whidbey Island.  You catch a 20 minute car-ferry at the southern end which will put you in the northern periphery of Seattle.  Deception Pass state park is a beautiful place to visit.

18 minutes ago, Nolafan said:

@cruisingrob21 We are considering doing the Vancouver to Seattle shuttle in a few weeks instead of renting a car. We are planning on staying on there for a few extra days post cruise for some sightseeing. Does the shuttle have a bathroom and if not does it make bathroom sites? 

 

Also - the average transport time is 5-6hrs?

 

Thanks! 

The buses are pretty standard "long distance" coaches.  Most, if not all, have a bathroom but they are very small and I've seen it once where the bathroom was out of order.  If the bathroom is broken its likely the bus will stop at a rest area once in Washington State.  You might want to ask the driver about that when you board.  Our bus did not stop and there was no "all-call" if a stop was needed.

I can't speak to the average, but of the 3 or 4 times I've taken the transfer, the first buses will start leaving Vancouver between 8:00 and 8:30 as they fill up and arrive at Seatac airport around 12:30 to 1:30.  That all assumes that the border screening is "easy" where everyone stays on the bus.  In this scenario, the bus will wait at a designated area at the border while border guards may come on and look at passports.  Note that if there are any other ships in port, your bus won't be the only one and you may be waiting while other buses are inspected.  If you get the "hard" screening, everyone will have to get off the bus at the border and go into the border facility to have a quick chat with agents, similar to what you go through in airport customs.  As you can imagine, that can easily add 30-40 minutes for a bus of 40 people.

Once all that is complete, the bus will head toward Seattle.  If its a weekday, the bus will hit traffic north of seattle and will take a bit longer to get the airport.  So it takes about an hour to drive from the cruise terminal to the border, at least 30 minutes at the border and another 2 to 3 hours from the border to Seatac without too much traffic.  That's 4 hours at best from when the bus leaves the terminal.  If you got to loading area and are the first person on the bus, add another 30 minutes for the bus to fill up.  If a rest stop is made, it will add another 15 minutes or so.

I personally wouldn't plan on a flight before 3pm from Seatac.

Have you considered amtrak?  It's a great way to go and takes about the same amount of time, maybe a bit less.  The main reason its not well used by cruise passengers is because the AM train runs around 7:45am, and the pm train runs around 7pm (double check) which aren't really practical if you try to get home on disembarkation day.  Its much more scenic and you process all customs at the train station in vancouver.  The train will stop at the border but only for 10 minutes or so while agents walk through the train, sometimes requesting to see passports.  Once you get to Seattle, you'll either have to take an uber/taxi to the airport (20 minute ride) or take the light rail which is a short walk.