SunNFunCruzer

Yes, today's performance was improved, as I stated in my original post. Did you attend any performances last week? Performances of the trio?

Lol... I thought I was clear.... Violinist is flat. Captain is Timmers, , Hotel Mgr is Van Oorschot. And three daily 35 minute original and/or distinct programs would be great. Even repeating one program in a day, like a theatre show is repeated, would be acceptable. What's happening is that whole shows/programs are repeated and then the additional distinct programs are conglomerations and mashups of those repeated programs, which leads to mind-numbing repetition and that led me to create this topic.

Heads up for those sailing the Rotterdam soon. Lower your expectations. While the ship and staff are 5 star, the highlight for us, Lincoln Center Stage, is falling flat (figuratively and literally). We just began week 2 of the Best of Norway cruise. For the first week, the quartet was a trio of women, who repeated songs in multiple programs and who frequently sounded off (I'm looking at you violinist). A few days ago, the male cellist returned to the ensemble, and there was appreciable improvement. This afternoon's program, that will be repeated again at 7pm, was another mashup of programs that will be played throughout the week. Many songs we heard sans the cellist last week. The programs last ~30-35 minutes, and at most 3 programs a day a performed, why there is so much repetition is both mind-boggling and disappointing. We book HAL mostly for itinerary and Lincoln Center. Some days last week, I could count the audience members on two hands. That is terrible for anyone in Corporate paying attention. Today's program was improved, and the audience multiplied quite nicely. How that audience will fare as they realize the same songs will be played over and over, should provide incentive to the Entertainment team and the quartet itself that their programs should diversify and grow. We are die-hard LCS fans, but HAL must do better to keep us. For those Covid conscious.... Mask wearing and social distancing are both nearly non-existent. Staff and passengers from last week to this have been diagnosed positive and quarantined. The staff are excellent.... Top to Bottom. The Captain makes multiple daily requests to wear masks indoors and when social distancing is not possible, yet the announcements fall on deaf ears. Sadly, it seems the staff bear the brunt, and that's a real shame. Happy to answer any questions I can.

I don't get it. You are all proving our point, yet are convinced that the protections the Cruiselines implemented early during the restart -- vaccines, testing, mandatory masks and social distancing -- fail -- while the statistics prove they worked. The CDC used a color system and while masks and social distancing were mandated many ships were green. That meant there was very little COVID. When the mask mandates were lifted and crowds were allowed to gather again (mostly unmasked), COVID positive rates increased, and vacations were ruined. Look at how many posters on this thread turned up COVID positive after boarding. Suzanne is right -- no one wants to pay $10,000 to spend 8 days isolated in quarantine feeling sick and feeling neglected. The fact that Horizon Chaser has to plan to have an "advocate" in case they are locked in their cabin, should tell you all you need to know... HAL is NOT doing what they should be doing. Masks are uncomfortable. Masks are no one's preference. But, if enforcing a mask mandate keeps me and those around me safe, healthy and able to walk around the ship and enjoy the fresh air, sign me up for a cruise with a mask-mandate. Masks work. Masks have worked in operating rooms for centuries. HAL should re-implement the mask mandates and then they'd have the staff available to service the quarantine rooms since being infected and quarantined will be so rare.

No, it's a thread complaining about how Holland America Cruiselines handled their customers becoming infected with COVID on their cruise trip. People tried to victim-blame, but this was never a post about decisions. It was always a post about how HAL handled COVID positive passengers and their refund or lack thereof.

And let me add TEACHERS to that list. Most of us don't home school. We have relied on Teachers to help us raise our kids. The children often see their teachers more than their parents when you factor in classroom time and after school programs. Most parents work full-time so Yes, our society IS structured around helping others and has been for a very, very long time. And wearing a mask and trying to prevent the spread of COVID helps all of society.

Let's agree to disagree, but it's telling that of all the things I posted, THAT's the one you've tried to refute. I am not going to argue to argue. A review of posting history, timing and subject and a little internet sleuthing goes a long way. But Suzanne has a point that she did not receive the services she expected when she and her spouse were diagnosed mid-cruise with COVID. And being diagnosed with COVID caught in a cruise ship is becoming more and more likely.

While most of what you said, I agree with, I disagree with the statement above. The cruiselines CAN protect cruisers by keeping pre-cruise testing, vaccination mandates, indoor mask mandates and encouraging if not enforcing social distancing. They can CHOOSE and are choosing Not to take those precautions, but they force their staff to wear masks for a reason. They know that masking helps REDUCE transmission. They should want reduced transmission throughout their ships. I believe you can go on a cruise, eat all meals outside, get off at port stops later in the day, avoid crowds, wear a mask always indoors and outdoors in crowds, cruise and stay COVID free, as I've done it. But that was when the protocols protecting cruisers were in place and enforced.

You are proving our point. Health Care Workers WILL take care of you when/if you need them. Most people who are sick or in trouble don't take care of themselves. Cops/firefighters ALL First Responders take care of others. We have ALWAYS been a people who "others" take care of. And, sometimes, when people are ignorant or mislead or confused or wrong, our society has relied on scientists and doctors and those with more sophisticated and expert understanding to step in and help people protect themselves. MANY deadly diseases have been prevented because of mandated vaccines (polio, measles, mumps, rubella, chicken pox, tuberculous, etc). Additionally, I don't see the same outrage when states require you to wear a seatbelt. And wearing a seat belt mostly protects the wearer. Wearing a mask, testing before entering and living in crowded, tight-quarters helps EVERYONE. I have never had COVID. I don't want COVID. Yes, I want to cruise. Yes, I understand the risk. But, I assumed the risk I was taking included indoor masking, social distancing, vaccine requirements and pre-board testing. Someone who didn't take the vaccine, is going to be participating in risk-taking activities in very close proximity to me. I don't want to be close to that type of person. MANY people have been infected with COVID on cruise ships -- author quoted above included. It makes sense for people who want to avoid COVID (again, I've never had it), to have relied on the prevention protocols in place when we booked to keep us all safe. The incubation period is ~5 days. There's a reason they are not mandating testing on short-cruises -- by the time the outbreak is publicized, everyone is off the ship and someone else's problem. There is also a reason the cruise staff remains masked to this day. They know that masking helps control the spread, but they want more people out and about spending $$$$ on their ships, as long as they can get you off before you become a cruise company problem. Finally, if you pay close attention, many people posting here are cruise and travel company affiliated. It's in their best interest to downplay the risk and encourage a return to freestyle cruising. Read a number of groups and messageboards and pay attention to how many people return COVID positive. That's not spin, that's fact.

They announced that there would Not be pre-cruise testing AFTER final payment -- AFTER they TOLD EVERYONE THERE WOULD BE PRE-CRUISE TESTING. It was a last minute decision by the cruise company, and it seems cruisers are suffering because of it. They Did Not offer cruisers the option to receive a refund once they implemented this change. There is a lack of transparency and disregard for their customers feelings, comfort and health.

How do you know the above is true about testing? On the Rotterdam for the past 3 weeks, it's my understanding that HAL has eliminated the requirement for pre-cruise testing. While I agree that airports are risk points, I believe it's also true that having the pre-board testing requirement weeded out a lot of positive cases. That doesn't mean there is no COVID on the ship, but pre-board testing is an added layer of protection, statistically. Why do you think it was mandated in the first place? People have COVID fatigue and are taking chances without masks, but, if you follow other message boards on the internet, many unmasked are coming home from cruises with COVID. Those who took other precautions and those who tried to have a carefree experience. No one knows the long-term effects of COVID on our bodies. We know that other viruses can flare up at future dates and can cause long term organ damage... COVID remains unknown because it's too soon to tell. I would mask-up and take all precautions. Cruising is inherently risky.

Hi Suzanne, thank you for posting and I'm also sorry to read about this. IIRC Holland's website has very detailed statements about what guarantees they give passengers who test positive before or during their cruise. You should go and take a screen capture of that language and collect the contact details of others who have had similar experiences. I agree that if when you booked, there were mask mandates and statements that pre-boarding testing would be required -- it seems like a bait-and-switch to take your money with certain conditions and then after final payment change the rules so significantly -- No mask mandate AND no pre-boarding testing -- without offering refunds to passengers who do not want to take that level of risk. The Corporate offices know how much COVID is circulating on their ships and how many passengers have taken advantage of cancellation policies due to COVID positive results from the 72 hour prior pre-cruise testing. There's a reason that they are not transparent with the infection rates. If you were on the Rotterdam, there are other recent threads detailing the experiences of COVID positive passengers on those trips. It's one thing to know that everyone who is boarding has had a negative test within 72 hours of boarding and taking the risk of exposure --- it's another to be told that everyone will have a negative test within 72 hours and then board a totally open ship with no pre-cruise testing. I would not go to any large event indoor or outdoor without COVID tests. Omicron is too contagious right now and human biology is sophisticated enough that there is No Way to know how COVID will affect you and/or how it will effect your organs months or years from now. It has left 80 year old's relatively unharmed and has killed healthy 20 year olds. As a virus it's a roll of the dice, and to take a calculated risk, you need some data to calculate that risk. Until we demand transparency, the cruise companies will do what they can to increase their profits even if that sacrifices the few.

Does anyone have any more information about what is going on on the Magic in Virginia? News articles are claiming chemical fumes made a number of people ill (nausea and vomiting -- sounds like a COVID superspreader event!) and the US Military is boarding the empty ship to investigate. Anyone on her most recent cruise? https://nypost.com/2022/05/26/carnival-cruise-ship-docked-in-virginia-after-chemical-fume-report/

Yes, obviously, but are the crew just floating around? Or are people popping on and off? Do you know?

^^^^^This makes NO sense. Emed tests are $25.00/each. About $30 with shipping, depending where you live. 6 Proctored tests cost $150 + shipping from Emed directly. At the Optum site it is $99+$99=$198 for 6 with free shipping and they use Emed proctors. Your company is Not CLIA certified which is required. If you get caught taking a shortcut and Celebrity or any cruiseline can prove you lied and caused them to suffer a loss, you may be liable. Just buy Emed tests and stop trying to scam the CLIA system.

OMG! Use the bag. Enjoy the bag. You can't take your $$ with you. If you bought the bag b/c it suits your lifestyle and Not just as some sort of social status piece, use and enjoy it! And... I guess, even if you did buy it as social status piece, you should use and enjoy it, as how would people know how rich, cool and trendy you are if you left the bag at home in a closet so it could "appreciate"?!?

What are they doing on the Westerdam? Let's copy that fleetwide. Are they just out on the ocean somewhere floating? Or are crew coming on and off quarantining until posted on other ships? I would try anything to keep the counts down. I am confused why so many are complaining about indoor mask wearing... the alternative of getting quarantined and having a trip ruined seems so much worse, and on some ships counts on and off seem to be nearing 10-20% positive if you believe roll-call and FB group reports.

Well, someone currently on the Noordam, just posted this: "Second, we were disappointed to find that masks are still required while indoors except when eating and drinking." I would NOT be disappointed if masks were mandated, but I think it will be interesting to watch the Noordam and some other ships where Captains are either suggesting or mandating masks. Some Captains have their families on board with them, I'm sure they are trying to keep their family members and their crew as safe as possible. If the data shows that masks are reducing transmission, I expect that more ship by ship mask mandates will be rolled out. And, I'd be 100% supportive of that. Did anyone read about this new MonkeyPox? Yikes! I will plan to wear a mask for the foreseeable future. A lot of nasty stuff floating around out there.

Wow! Thanks for that! Very helpful. I'll dig in and take a look.

I just posted a question about this. I am trying to find out if the mask mandate is going to be rolled out fleet-wide. Or, if some ships are test ships to see if cases are reduced? Or if they are mandating masks as the ports mandate them, or as COVID cases explode through passengers and crew on certain sailings or for some other reason? Does anyone know if there is any evidence that COVID cases were lower when masks were mandated fleet-wide?

I am reading conflicting posts about masks onboard indoors. Is there a different mask-wearing protocol for ships sailing in US waters vs. those sailing in international waters where travelers have to test to fly back to the US and ports can enforce rules on the cruise lines? It seems that many on international sailings are reporting indoor mask mandates. I am 100% supportive of mandating mask wearing indoors except when eating or drinking, and believe that that is one way to mitigate the spread of COVID, but how are the mask policies being enforced and how do cruisers know what the mask rules are on each cruise? Does the CD and Captain make daily announcements? Do they leave literature in your stateroom? Do staff remind passengers in hallways, theatres and gathering places to mask up? And for those on sailings who for sure have had mask mandates (or those who switched mid-cruise -- masked/unmasked)... how did it affect your cruise? Did you return COVID positive? Knowing what you know, are you supportive of fleet-wide mask mandates? Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experiences.