BunnyHutt

1 hour ago, Jaworskym said:

I got the same email for 22 Oct. Did a little digging on Facebook and saw the cast of COM gave their last performance on the Encore 4 days ago. 

Like, ever? Or just for the current Alaskan season?

FWIW, my friend and I were just on the Encore out of Seattle last month. We flew in the day before and had 11:30am-12pm check-in slot. Had a leisurely morning, Uber dropped us curbside at 11:45am where a porter came over and took our bags as soon as we removed them from the vehicle. We stepped on the ship at 12:05pm and were sitting and enjoying a drink and watching NFL outside the Cavern Club by 12:15. Rooms were ready around 2pm, IIRC. 
 

No standing in lines, no waiting around the terminal, it was glorious!

1 minute ago, RedRover96 said:

Looks like great minds thinks a like, you were 1 minute ahead of me 😄

Yes!!

And your wife is absolutely correct about the massage!

When my friend and I went to Costa Maya back in 2019 (instead of our planned stop in Havana 😫), we spent the day at Maya Chan. I posted on another thread that I only book excursions though the cruise line, but this was a last minute exception. Very nice, relaxing and never felt remotely unsafe or concern about getting back to ship on time. 
 

https://costamayabeachresort.com

15 hours ago, rugerdog said:

 

That is my issue.  I'd made plans to park and get a ride to Pier 66.  Then after the letter, I changed arrangements for Pier 91.  If I could get a confirmation as to which place we'll disembark, it would make a big difference. I make my plans in advance to eliminate arranging and waiting for a taxi or ride share with ten hundred thousand others, possibly standing in the rain and cold.

   

This has repercussions for those who are driving, as well as those who plan pre and post hotel stays near the cruise port.  I realized it's not the end of the world, but it does add to the stress.  

Is there a roll call/group for the cruise after yours? Ask if they’ve received any information regarding from which port they’ll be embarking. 

On 10/8/2023 at 10:11 PM, PixieMom3 said:

Going to be on the Encore for Thanksgiving, will there be a place/bar to watch football? A place to watch the Sunday we board and that Monday would be nice too. 😀

We sat and watched Sunday football last month at the bar outside the Cavern Club (on the Waterfront) while waiting for cabins to be ready. 
 

I was a little bummed, though not surprised, to not have college football on Saturday. 

I’ve never experienced an issue with French rail system but am all-too familiar with the Italian strikes that occurred when I was a college student studying abroad in the late 90’s. 
 

Between that and being a pier-runner for the Song of Norway back in 1990 with my parents when our cab driver in Barbados got multiple flats, I will never book at non-cruise excursion. Especially in Europe. It may be a higher price tag but is my insurance that we won’t get left behind. 

4 hours ago, KeithJenner said:

In the USA (and some other countries) you get the free at sea offers and have to pay a gratuity on them. If, as an example, you don’t take the beverage or dining package then the gratuity is reduced.

 

In the UK (and some other countries) you have to pay a fee for the free at sea offers. This fee is not a gratuity. If, as an example, you don’t take the beverage or dining package then you still pay exactly the same fee, because it isn’t a gratuity.

 

If I just took free at sea for the shore excursion discount and refused the rest then I would still pay the same amount despite the barkeep not having to fix me a single drink. Because it isn’t a gratuity.

dumb question - does the bar/wait staff then get stiffed by those who don’t pay a service charge on the “free at sea” drink and/or restaurant item? Since your fee isn’t a gratuity?

1 hour ago, steamboats said:

 

The Unlimited Open Bar Package is 109 USD/day (plus 20%), the Premium Plus Beverage Package is 138 USD/day (plus 20%) - if you don´t have Free At Sea (at least those were the last prices I saw).

 

And it´s not about add in any gratuities or VAT it´s simply that the taxable purchase is the purchase of the package and not the order of a single drink (as you can´t tax an amount of 0).

 

steamboats

The same methodology is used when ships are in taxable US ports. Tax is calculated, and charged, based upon the menu price of the drink as it is being consumed. Granted, I’ve only been on this particular board a year or so, but I don’t see anyone up in arms about that?

Again, how much are you all drinking that a 20% drink tax is breaking you financially? 🤯 I’m coming out ahead being charged tax per drink versus if I were taxed on the price of the package. Especially given the fact that Mediterranean cruises are so port-intensive. 

I’m trying to figure out how much you all drink, resulting in a tax bill breaking you after paying several thousands of dollars on a vacation. On a port-intensive cruise like the Med, I’m guessing I’ll be looking at averaging maybe $10/day - or $100, give or take, for my planned trip next year. 

4 hours ago, dawcruiser said:

I would of fire anyone who used other than the absolute truth

We still don’t know if you weren’t told the absolute truth. So many scenarios are possible - maybe you bought during a double up period during which 2 certs *could* be used for an inside cabin. Maybe the rep didn’t realize you were asking about an inside cabin. Maybe you didn’t hear the rep say balcony or above. 
 

Regardless, the onus is on you to read the T&C’s. As a former CEO surely you know the importance of that, do you not? They were *given to you* so it’s like like you even had to go searching for them. You had ample time while on your cruise and afterwards to read them. 
 

And since the Double Up promo is currently on, seems to me the wise thing would be to cancel your current reservation and rebook using both certs. Or ask NCL if you can just apply the second one to existing reservation now. Though I suppose it is just easier to blame your lack of due diligence on everyone else. 

I’m also curious as to why now that you’re complaining about events from over a year ago. 🤔

My friend and I just cruised NCL for the first time a couple of weeks ago on the Encore. While on board we decided that next year’s girls trip was going to be a Med cruise on Prima. Since that decision was firm, we decided to go to the Cruise Next desk to see what it was about. The rep assured us we could use 4 certs on the same booking and, by purchasing 4 (for the price of 2), she immediately changed us to silver status. 
 

Well, that same afternoon I decided to sit and read all the T&C’s. It was quite clear that we couldn’t use all 4 at the same time and i questioned if we could even use 2. I ended up speaking with the same rep again who said “I said you could use 4 if you booked 2 cabins.” Yeah, no, that’s not how that went. When I asked about using 2 for same cabin she said that NCL pretty much always guarantees that for balcony and above (we do club balcony so no prob there) except when they do the 2 for 1 on all cabins. She even showed me the internal communication that detailed all the promos, with timing, to date for 2023. She also mentioned that Black Friday is a good time to book when using cruise next certs. 
 

At the end of it all, I ended up just buying 2 for $250 and applied both to the 2024 booking I made when I got home from Seattle. 
 

Chances are, you were not lied to. Maybe you didn’t realize the 2 certs were only for a balcony or above or that the promo on all cabins was a periodic thing. Regardless, the document that you get when you make your purchase (which isn’t that long, BTW, and I had no problem reading/understanding a couple/few drinks in) clearly states that any refunds need to be requested within 30 days. So that part is absolutely on you. 

1 hour ago, reveur15 said:

Yes they have the right to charge any VAT and yes it is in the contract and i agreed to it,

 

BUT While in a regular cruise my bill is usually 0$,

The one I booked for 2024 MED in all EU countries for 11 days could cost me more than 800$ additional VAT If the VAT is 20% plus 10% like some told us ! 😱

Our usual included 'FREE' drinks per day value for 2 people with P+ are :

• 6 glass wine @ 20 = 120$ (1 at lunch 2 at dinner each)
• 3 beers @ 10 = 30$ (2 me 1 DH)
• 2 bottle water @ 7 = 14$ (1 each)
• 2 strabuck coffee @ 5 = 10$ (1 each)
• 2 fresh juice @ 3 = 6$ (1 each)

Total 'value' per day = 180$ * 11 days = 1980$

PLUS 5 dining package EACH @ 75$ value = 750$ if VAT applies on this also

Total 2730$ = VAT 20% = 546$ + VAT 10% = 273$ = TOTAL VAT could be $819 for 11 days for 2 people !!!

It is not a matter of only a few cents !

WIll I really have this bill ? Probably. Will it ruin my holiday ? Enough to at least consider cancel the cruise ! 

OH and will they start charge VAT on shore excursion soon ??? I have 1200$ shorex booked...

😭

 

$7 for a bottle of water?? 😳

See, now you’re making the *choice* to consume this much in order to justify the cost of the premium plus beverage package. If you forgo that and stick with less expensive wine, regular juice, standard coffee and water in reusable containers (or even having water delivered to stateroom ahead of time if you don’t want to carry your own), not only do you save the added cost of the fancy drink package over what comes with FAS but your tax liability drops substantially. 
 

But at least you are informed and can plan accordingly. 🙂

26 minutes ago, steamboats said:

Once again, they don´t need to count it into the package price as they don´t have to pay it for a single drink. That´s what you don´t want to get. A value added tax can be only added to a value. For a value money has to change hands. But no money does change hands when you order a drink with your package. The money changed hands when you bought the package (or Free at Sea). Then you had to pay a VAT in case that purchase was made in Europe.

 

What´s even more strange that they charge a VAT on the Service Charge - that´s an automated gratuity. That´s not part of the taxed value at all (even when you paid for the drink). The gratuity is part of the income of the waiter and therefore the waiter has to pay income tax on this amount...

 

And once again, I am German and I live in Germany and I´m pretty sure that I do know our tax system pretty well ;-).

 

steamboats

What do you mean they don’t have to pay it for a single drink? Of course they do! Do you think that the alcohol in your “free” drink has no cost/value? The cruise line has thousands upon thousands of invoices to prove otherwise. 
 

And for the record, where you live doesn’t guarantee knowledge of your tax system. I know plenty of Americans who have zero clue how US tax code works. 😉

7 minutes ago, steamboats said:

 

Not that the beverage package of NCL ist any cheaper per day when you buy it separately 🤦 without free at sea. And if you really have to pay the VAT for each drink you can't really count it into the price of the package.

 

And for my Diamond (Crown & Anchor) drinks I don't pay anything at all.

 

And of course when you buy the beverage package onboard in Europe they add the VAT based on the price of the package.

 

What you don't get is that with a zero pay for a single drink there is no value you can add a tax. And BTW it's not just RCI but all other cruise lines which don't add a VAT to a single drink with a package.

 

steamboats 

And what you don’t get is that the VAT is factored into the cost of the package. I am sure someone in the tax accounting departments of those companies can tell you what that is… as they are the ones calculating and filing the *mandatory* returns. And yes, there is a value to a ‘zero pay’ drink - it’s the ticketed price on the menu, which is why NCL provides the receipt to show how the VAT was calculated. That’s called transparency and is honestly the least convoluted way of doing things for the company… and puts control into the consumer’s hands. 
 

I’ll give you that it is entirely possible that Diamond members don’t pay VAT on their “free” drinks. But I’m assuming there is a limit to the number of those you get per sailing and it’s possible that the value of the VAT that RCI *will* pay on those drinks are written off to some sort of customer goodwill account on the P&L. However, the cruise line is making up for it in an inflated cost elsewhere because, at the end of the day, cruise lines are not not-for-profit organizations. Everything is and will be about maximizing their net income. 
 

Signed, someone who has worked 20+ years in all levels of corporate accounting for multinational organizations. 

6 hours ago, steamboats said:

 

RCI doesn´t charge the VAT on drinks you order with a package.

 

RCI does charge it when you pay for each single drink.

 

In France it´s the 20% VAT for alcoholic beverages and the 10% VAT on the 20% service charge. It´s not a VAT on the VAT.

 

steamboats

Dollars to donuts RCI has rolled the VAT into the cost of the drink package using a formula derived by their bean-counters and actuaries. 
 

You just don’t like seeing it separated out, which is a legitimate personal preference. My personal preference is having control over my spend and in the end (based on my personal habits) will most likely spend less than I would if handed a baked-in figure. 

Thank you, everyone, for clarification. I was picturing a setup of physical - ie Weber - grills. Not like a bar and grill. 😆

Honest question - what cruise lines/ships have outdoor grills?? Intuitively, I would think this would be a major liability issue. 
 

It seems like the vast majority of your complaints are haven-related/not receiving enough preferential treatment. If one is going to spend that much money on a vacation, why not just sail on Viking?

1 hour ago, steamboats said:

@BunnyHutt Usually food and drinks are not eligable for a tax refund. You can buy a leather jacket or a bag and get a refund.

 

steamboats 

Thank you. 
 

Like I said, it’s been a while. Last time I brought alcohol home from Europe was 1998, when I was still in college. 🙂

8 minutes ago, steamboats said:

@BunnyHutt when you purchase something onsite or online in Europe you definitely pay the VAT rate of the country of purchase. It's just that the VAT ist already included in the price tag. When I buy something online in the US the local sales tax is added (because I don't have an US address the sales tax of the point of sale is added like I bought it onsite).

 

You can buy a bottle of wine in Italy and take it back home to the US but you pay the Italien VAT when you buy the bottle. It doesn't matter where and when you consume it. When you check the receipt it will show the VAT but the amount you pay is the amount shown on the price tag.

 

steamboats 

I can get a refund of the VAT of anything I take out of the EU… when I take it out. Though I admit that I cannot remember if alcohol purchases carried out of the EU are subject to different rules than other goods. It’s been a while. Of course I’m going to pay the tax at point of purchase - I never said I didn’t - and couldn’t claim a refund (if applicable) if I drink it before leaving. 
 

Regarding your payment of local US sales tax on purchases made online and shipped to Europe, I’d really like to see an example of that. 

9 hours ago, steamboats said:

 

But this is an EU VAT and not a US tax... And I was talking about how the VAT is handled in Europe. Your sales tax is handled different that EU VAT. When it comes to the EU VAT the purchase is the purchase of the package which is sold via Miami. So EU is not interested in this. By the time you consume a specific drink you are in EU but the price of the drink is 0 as you don´t pay anything when you consume the drink (you have prepaid the package) and 10% of 0 is still 0. At the moment of consumption you don´t buy anything as you have prepaid your drinks by buying the package.

 

BTW, when you buy a package onboard an RCI ship in Barcelona when embarking you have to pay the 10% VAT on the price of the package. With RCI/Celebrity you don´t pay any VAT on a single drink when you have a package (of course you pay when you don´t have a package). So the way NCL is handling this VAT you could be taxed twice - for buying the package onboard and for every single drink you order.

 

steamboats

I appreciate your insight, truly. However, your argument seems to want things to work both ways… end result being whatever is in your favor. You state that EU VAT is levied on point of purchase *within the EU* and therefore your purchase made in the US shouldn’t be subject to VAT. However, US tax law is based on point of destination so therefore you should still be charged VAT. Not to mention the economic impact of local European economies if imports were not subject to VAT. Any idea of “fair trade” flies out the window. As a side note, purchase point is only applicable for goods consumed within the EU… my online (or onsite) purchase from an EU country are not subject to VAT if I take/consume them in the US. But for on-site purchases the onus is on me to claim the refund at point of export. 
 

Regarding other lines not charging the customer VAT, that is simply not true. You just don’t like seeing it as a separate line item and that is your preference. I can guarantee you that companies are not absorbing this expense (which they are still required, by law, to file and pay) out of the goodness of their heart. It’s baked in somewhere - either in the cost of the cruise, the cost of the package or the cost of the drink. I personally appreciate the transparency offered by NCL and can control my own cost exposure versus paying some trumped up number.
 

And it’s still laughable to me that people who pay thousands of dollars for a vacation are crying over a $100 tax bill. But if that truly is going to be a sticking point, use your power as a consumer and spend your monies elsewhere. That just opens up more availability for those like me. 🙂

2 hours ago, RD64 said:

Read your cruise contract - this is nothing new! Despite the fact they you do not agree to this - you did agree when accepting the cruise contract. All cruise lines are the same.

While all cruise lines are the same with regards to boilerplate contracts, YMMV and are not consistent amongst and within cruise lines when changes occur. 
 

I was booked on a Cuban cruise on Royal Caribbean for July 2019. And, as my luck usually goes, Cuba was shut down to tourism less than a month before I was supposed to sail. Royal owed us *nothing* as this was a change in government policy but the fact of the matter is, everyone on that ship booked because of itinerary. Those who opted to keep their bookings and cruise to Mexico instead received substantial refunds. To this day, my friend and I are still scratching our head on the cruise line’s math as we fully believe we were refunded a lot more than we were expecting. 

On 9/28/2023 at 1:52 AM, steamboats said:

When you buy the package online you usually buy it outside of the EU (so maybe Maimi). Therefore the tax law of the country of purchase comes in (which would be US). That should be the same for an included package or Free at Sea package. 

 

I disagree. 
 

Example, purchases of goods in the US are subject to where they are being consumed/received by the end user. If you’re buying a bottle of wine *at* a winery in California while on vacation from Ohio, you’re going to pay CA sales tax. Now let’s say you’re making an online purchase *from* the same winery (let’s also make the general statement that the winery has nexus in all states mentioned in this example). You enjoyed that bottle of wine so much that you want some shipped to you once you get home to Ohio. You will pay OH sales tax. Let’s also say you want a bottle shipped to your sibling in Missouri so they can also enjoy it. You will pay MO sales tax on that purchase. All from a vendor located in CA. 
 

Any drink package is simply a prepay of future receipt/consumption. If any state or country dictates that the specific value of goods consumed *in* that particular location, then that’s what you’re going to be charged. 

8 hours ago, KeithJenner said:

This is how it works:

 

Somone produces some raw material and sells it on the a manufacturer for £100. They add on £20 VAT which they pay to the government. The manufacturer pays them the £20 VAT, but then claims that back off the government. Total net VAT paid to date is zero.

 

The manufacturer does some work to the product and sells it to a retailer for £200. They charge the retailer £200 plus £40 VAT, and they pay the VAT to the government. The retailer pays them that £40 and claims it back off the government. Total net VAT paid to date is zero.

 

The retailer then sells it on to the end customer for £300 plus £60 VAT. They pay that VAT to the government. The end customer pays that £60 to them and can't claim it back. Total VAT paid to date is £60, all of which was paid by the end user.

That is similar to how it is in the US. If goods are purchased for further manufacturing then they are exempt from sales tax. I *believe* the same is true if a resale certificate is provided but I am much less versed in that as the bulk of my career was spent in the manufacturing world. 
 

But, yes, typically only the end user is subject to sales tax.