KnowTheScore

2 hours ago, richstowe said:

 

Why do you possibly think they could give you assurance in writing that all will be hunky dory ? And if they did, what would it be worth . I respect those who believe the current situation is too uncertain to cruise . Fine . To insist on assurances at this point is delusional .

No-one mentioned needing assurances about all being hunky dory.

I simply stated that the cruise lines need to make it completely clear to passengers how they would deal with any confirmed cases of COVID-19.  Passengers need to know if a Diamond Princess scenario is possible or whether the cruise line has now agreed an alternative protocol.   The longer they dither and refuse to tell passengers how they will deal with cases, the more cancellations they will get imho.  They are already losing $millions so it's in their interest to be clear with passengers imho.

Vampiress: "evening casual to me means what I’d wear to the pub "

From P&O website:

"For Evening Casual nights, dress as you would for dinner in a nice restaurant; smart dark denim or trousers and a nice top, open-neck shirts, skirts and dresses "

Perhaps personal interpretation but I don't equate "nice restaurant" with "pub".   So no, I personally definitely wouldn't dress as if I were going to the pub.  I would dress as if I were going to say a London restaurant.   Generally I wear smart chinos of varying colours and smart evening shirts and a smart pair of suede derby shoes or brogues.

Most ladies wear nice dresses or smart 2-piece outfits,  or any mix of smart trousers and tops with various accessories.

36 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

Sadly, this is now the way that P&O do business - and they do it because they get away with it, because their British customer base, by and large, allows them to.  Most people give up, instead of fully pursuing their legal rights, but when they do that P&O give way - sometimes with non-disclosure agreements.

 

Other companies have more respect for their customers, perhaps.  Or maybe they know that those other customers are quite different from P&O customers, and simply won't put up with being treated that way.

I find it hard to think of P&O as P&O any more.  It is for me personally just Carnival now.  Profits are the priority imho.

Interesting to hear people's various responses from P&O

Unfortunately for most people there is only one question that they want a simple clear statement on imho which is:

Should a passenger or member of the crew be confirmed with COVID-19 during the cruise, what procedures and protocols will P&O follow?

Unless they (and for that matter any cruise line) are willing to properly declare how they intend to deal with any confirmed cases of the virus on-board then I just can't see how potential passengers will be able to make any kind of informed decision and we would have little choice but to assume we'd all be locked up just as the Diamond Princess.  Something has to give here.

6 hours ago, claudiniusmaximus said:

My concern is that someone on the ship will become diagnosed with Coronavirus during our trip and we will get quarantined in our cabins along with the entire ship for several weeks. When people get flu or norovirus or whatever else it is on board ship they don’t quarantine the entire ship for weeks in their cabins. 
 

That’s what is worrying me and why I might not pay the remaining balance at the end of the month and just lose our deposit.

I share exactly this concern Claudinius and is the prime reason I am not taking my planned cruise this month despite it having been fully paid up.  I emailed my cruise line for assurances and only got stock responses.  Until they clearly declare in writing how they would deal with any COVID19 case on-board I can't see that I can make any kind of informed decision and so accordingly I simply elect not to cruise until such time as they get a plan and solution together which satisfies passenger's concerns.

.

2 hours ago, lazybeachbum79 said:

I thought I read somewhere that the Diamond Princess had them quarantined on ship because that is what the Japanese officials ordered. We all saw how that went, so hopefully, God forbid this happens again, they will handle the quarantine differently. 

We can but hope lbb but in truth wouldn't you want some kind of assurance from your cruise line in writing before you cruise that explains what procedures they would implement if there were a case of COVID19 on-board?   I certainly would.

Impact To Cruise Industry

In the space of just 1 month the Carnival (CCL) share price plummeted from £37 down to £31 (mid Jan to mid Feb)

In the past week it has now dropped down to £26

That's about a 30% drop in the share price

Royal Caribbean shares were approx. $135 on Jan 20th

Now they are about $96

Again just short of a 30% drop

I'd say that was significant impact to the industry and I don't think we're anywhere near the end of the impact at this stage.

OP: has anyone cancelled a cruise they were meant to be going on? 

Yes.  Was due to sail in March, cruise fully paid up

Won't be going now.

22 minutes ago, bodgerday said:

I sailed with Oceana three weeks ago.  I am not a seasoned cruiser, I have only been on five cruises in total, all with P&O. I have nothing to compare P&O with.  I too found standards had slipped.  I enjoyed my cruise ( I always do ) but the service and entertainment had gone down hill since my last cruise two years ago.

Lights blue touch paper and retires . . .  . :-)

22 minutes ago, bodgerday said:

 

I could not fault the price, so I took this into consideration.

Nice recovery

22 minutes ago, bodgerday said:

 

Our cabin steward could not do enough for us, all smiles and went out his way to say hello.  The day before we disembarked I gave him an envelope with a tip enclosed.  On the day of disembarkation I saw him, and he totally blanked me. Our table waiters gave us the menus and then asked us not to forget to give them a tip.

This aspect is more worrying.  Tipping has always been an issue and never satisfactorily sorted imho.  We are currently led to believe that all our tips are now essentially in the ticket price.  If your cabin steward and/or MDR waiters are hankering for tips and/or disappointed with what they receive then it's suggestive that P&O isn't passing our tips onto those people or that they have made it exceptionally hard for them to earn those tips.  Not a good sign but I was always highly sceptical whether the bean counters at Carnival passed 100% of our tips onto the staff.  Tipping remains an issue.  I think it always will.

22 minutes ago, bodgerday said:

With an American company it's all about " the dollar " Take Craft when they took over Cadbury.  The chocolate is not a patch on what it used to be, since they changed the recipe. 

This has been apparent for me (and many others) on P&O for the past 5-10+ years at least.

22 minutes ago, bodgerday said:

 

We all have our moans, but P&O is what it is. 

It's certainly not what it was so I'd say you are right, it is what it is though I guess that would have changed again by the end of the year.

1 hour ago, Vampiress88 said:

yes it’s annoying when there are no seats available but unfortunately some people think themselves above others. 
 

 

Where does this nonsense come from?!

I'm simply expressing an opinion that Select Dining venues should be managed properly and not allowed to degrade into common rooms. 

Hi emam

5 minutes ago, emam said:

 

They are sitting quietly and not bothering anyone.

Well that's not true.  They are sitting in a dining area and thus affecting the ambience of what a Select Dining area should be.

As are the card players, knitters, sleepers and so on

5 minutes ago, emam said:

As to the Atrium, to my mind the Costa is the same. That has seating with different coloured carpets and screens to differentiate it from the rest of the Atrium. People however use all of the Atrium for coffees and it is always full. So there is another venue from your list that is probably no choice at all.

The wider aspects of the Atrium ARE part of the Costa bar.  The tables are decked out with the Costa Coffee and cold drinks menus to make that very clear.   Again an area that comes down to how well it is managed.  It's hard to get a seat because people treat it like a common room instead of a coffee shop.  They may buy a drink and then settle in there for 2-3 hours reading a book thereby depriving genuine customers from being able to get a seat.  Waiters do what they can by clearing up empty pots and cups so it's obvious that they have had their drinks and made their custom.  But people linger for hours anyway.

5 minutes ago, emam said:

 

You have said that you are finished with P&O, so I can't understand why you are complaining so much.

 

I've said that I am resolved to switch to another cruise line to fine a better offering.  Doesn't mean I don't have lots of experience of P&O to share on a forum like this.

6 minutes ago, mickey89 said:

I definitely would not take a cruise now or in the immediate future.  It not my concern of COVID-19 itself but the reaction that ensues - the potential of quarantine in a cabin is not for me

Nice to see someone else understands the real point of the situation in relation to cruising

2 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

Someone else has already pointed out that Epicurean and Sindhu are separate restaurant style venues, and Beach House only operates after 6:00pm when knitters are not readily apparent.

And I have already pointed out that outside of lunch hours venues like Sindhu are occasionally used as common areas for example to facilitate overspill from Costa coffee bar areas.   However at lunch time the venues return to being proper Select Dining venues and people are expected to eat/drink there not lounge.

29 minutes ago, Britboys said:

Considering that the Glass House is curated by Olly Smith, I have always thought of it as a wine bar with odds & ends of food on the side. 

We're past this assertion which is false.  The menu's have been posted as source references.  The Glass House serves large main meals as well as lighter bites, and starters and desserts.   It is a combination wine/bar restaurant and part of the Select Dining range.   In all cases the Glass House venues have seating for drinking (bar stools, seating with low tables etc) and seating for dining (proper tables, chairs in a defined area). 

16 minutes ago, Vampiress88 said:

there won’t be people in there doing anything other than eating as they are for food. It’s not somewhere you’d go for

just a glass of wine etc. You have to pay a cover charge therefore you’ll be definitely eating. 
 

the other places aren’t like that.

 

Simply not true.

You can wander into Sindhu restaurant and have just a drink or you can have a light lunch. 

Indeed if you ever cruise on Aurora you will regularly find that during the mornings, the Sindhu restaurant becomes an overpsill area for the Costa Café outside (formerly Raffles) so people just sit in there, drink tea/coffee eat cake, do crosswords and so on.  However . . . .  . .

Once you get to lunch time, it is again treated as a proper Select Dining venue and you can turn up any time with or without a booking and if they can seat you they will.  But you most certainly won't be permitted to walk in, not eat or drink and do your knitting !   Same in the evening, it acts as and is crucially policed as, a proper Select Dining venue.

So again this comes down to individual ships and how well they are (or are not) properly managed and policed.  Ventura staff should properly manage Glass House during lunch hours to preserve its place as a Select Dining venue.  Sadly they do not.

17 minutes ago, AndyMichelle said:

Similar, but Ventura is slightly more segregated from memory with a definite walkway outside. 

Andy 

Ventura's Glass House area actually is set out in 4 sections and has essentially 2 walkways through it.   On one side (starboard) there is a common walkway with foot traffic from the theatre to the atrium.  In that area there are lounge seats and low tables and it's perfectly natural for people to camp there, read, knit, do crosswords etc.  Got no problem with that.

On the complete opposite side (port) there are also lounge seats and low tables in similar fashion and since there are doors at the end towards the theatre that too becomes a walkway of foot traffic from theatre to atrium.

In the middle is the real Glass House which is clearly sectioned off by partitions on the starboard side separating it from the common lounge area.  The seating and tables there are entirely different to the lounge areas as is the décor of lights and a floor to ceiling olive tree.  These are proper height tables and chairs for dining and they are attended to by 2-3 waiters.

The forth area is a small corner that is totally enclosed by stonework and which is also full of proper height tables and chairs for dining.

The general issue on the ship, is that many people quite like the dining areas as a place to simply camp, knit, read, play games and so on with no intent at all to dine and sometimes no intent to drink.  The staff do nothing about it and so what should be a Select Dining venue simply becomes more of a common room and for me personally that makes it far less attractive as a place to spend extra surcharges for food, which is a shame because the food is good. I just don't want to sit eating my lunch with people knitting or sleeping in chairs beside me.   Not really that unreasonable imho.

1 minute ago, Vampiress88 said:

if it was not a lounge then the furniture would be more similar to sindu and the tables would already be set or dinner. That’s usually how up market restaurants work. It’s not even got the same type of cover charge. The beach house is a restaurant for example. The glass house May once have been something else but I am sure it is Seen as a lounge. People usually go there to try the wine. It’s kinda the glass houses niche not food. 
you can buy food there but you can get snacks in the pub-Brodie’s. 
 

theres also the pool place to eat. I’m not moaning about the people half naked sunbathing while I’m trying to eat. 
 

it is what it is. People can see for themselves from the photos on google and make their own assumptions but it is unfair to suggest that people should be eating in this lounge and not just sitting there with their one glass of wine and knitting. 

I've never stated that people MUST eat at the Glass House venue.  Glass House is most definitely a wine bar/restaurant select venue.  It is perfectly acceptable to go there and order wine or cocktails or any other drinks.  That's what it is for.

The problem is that, at least on Ventura, people just hog the seats for somewhere to sit and read, knit, sleep or play games without any intention of eating or drinking.   Its that problem that subsequently turns the venue from a select venue to just a common room.

4 minutes ago, AndyMichelle said:

The Glasshouse on Aurora is lovely, it never seems busy and feels like a speciality restaurant, as opposed to Ventura. 

Andy 

Yep point conceded in prev post. 

Mindful of course that the area on Aurora was formerly the fabulous and much missed Café Bordeaux restaurant which did breakfast, lunches and evening meals and it's layout was such that it had bannisters separating it from the external flow of passenger traffic.   When it changed to Glass House that layout mostly remained so people may on that ship perceive it to be what it truly is and should be, a Select Dining venue, not a common room.

7 minutes ago, Vampiress88 said:

don’t understand why I’m seeing a completely different menu? 
 

On azura there were different tables. There were a few near massive wine chillers that were proper tables and chairs for 4. Then there was a really long bench seat that we sat on with a small table in front of us. Hubby had a wine and I just had water. But no one came and took our order. I had to go to the bar both times. 
 

then there are seats along the outside where most people walk to get through to the other side. 
these were very low lounge type chairs with a low table in the middle. Perfect for us to sit at with a drink but I wouldn’t ever eat a proper meal at one of those. Could do finger food maybe there. 

 

Yes that's Azura Glass House

I have had to sit in those very low chairs to eat a main meal I'm afraid.  In fact they used to do special Food and Wine Tasting evenings for a significant supplement either once or twice on a given cruise.  At least 3 course and special wines chosen to match each course including the lovely sparkling Ice Wein.   We did that tasting evening on 2 occasions and on one of them we were forced to sit in those ridiculous low seats.  They have always been a problem.  And I'm going back a few years.

You could walk into that Glass House (cough) restaurant and want a proper table to eat at and find that you just can't get seated because other passengers are treating the entire place as an airport lounge and hogging all the better seats and tables.  It's simply ridiculous and the staff ought to do something about it but I guess they can't.   Like coffee shops back home you get people who buy an obligatory coffee (or in Glass House a glass of wine etc) and then they deem they have paid for their seat and stay their 3-4 hours sat reading a book or knitting.

This is all I object to.  The food is great and the wines are mostly great but the ambience and former identity as a sparking and special Select Dining venue has somehow been lost and degraded.

4 minutes ago, Elaine0138 said:

Oh I am quite sad to read that about the Glasshouse, perhaps it is different on every ship, I was looking forward to a nice little restaurant to have relaxing lunches. The menus I have seen are the same as Know the Score put up,  the banquets for 2 sound really nice, hoping to try a few 😊

Do try it Elaine, the food itself is delicious and different.   It's just that they've allowed the place to become a common room rather than a Select Dining restaurant venue imho.

12 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

 this is just a bar lounge that serves food. 

I disagree

From the P&O Website:

"Select Dining is our wonderfully flexible alternative dining where for a small charge you can enjoy restaurants by chef Marco Pierre White and TV’s wine expert Olly Smith. We’ve also developed a few of our own speciality experiences to whet your appetite."

"Select Dining in a speciality restaurant gives you even more choice, many of which are inspired by Michelin-starred chefs such as Marco Pierre White. A Select Dining Cover charge applies in these restaurants"

The website goes on to provide the charges at each Select Dining venue and Glass House is included in that lis:

"Aurora, Azura, Britannia, Ventura

The Glass House - View example menus
All day dining – All items are individually priced on the menu"

"Iona

The Glass House - View example menus
A La Carte all day dining - All items are individually priced.
Starters from £2.75
Mains from £8.00
Dessert from £4.50"

The Glass House venues are supposed to be Select Dining Restaurants.   They are being used as common bar/lounges.

For the avoidance of doubt here is the description of Glass House on their website:

"Headed up by the irrepressible, award-winning wine expert and P&O Cruises Food Hero, Olly Smith, The Glass House is the perfect location for a light bite, lunchtime tipple, afternoon apéritif or a tastefully informal evening out. And if you’re looking to match your chosen wine with your food you’ve picked the perfect place, as you’ll find helpful pairing suggestions in the menu."

Amongst the things you can order are:

"PRIVATE BANQUET FOR TWO GF

Great with: Malbec, Achaval Ferrer

6OZ GAUCHO BEEF PICANHA* with Chimichurri

4OZ FILET TORNADOS* with Béarnaise Sauce

RED WINE GLAZED STICKY BEEF SHORT RIBS

Served with Triple Cooked Chips, Portobello Mushroom and Plum Tomato

Various steaks: 

8OZ SIRLOIN STEAK* GF

6OZ FILLET STEAK* SURF AND TURF

with Garlic Prawns GF

8OZ RIB EYE STEAK* SURF AND TURF

Also

PRESSED PORK SHOULDER,

SLOW COOKED COLLAR

AND PORK HOCK BUBBLE AND SQUEAK

Roasted Carrots with Apple and Mustard Gravy GF

Great with: Corney & Barrow White Burgundy

Seafood

NEPTUNE’S BOUNTY FOR TWO

Great with: Grüner Veltliner, Höpler

SEARED SCALLOPS* with Sea Salt and Red Wine Vinegar

GARLIC BUTTER PRAWNS

MORNAY GLAZED HOT DRESSED CRAB with Lemon Mayonnaise

Served with French Fries and Baby Leaf Salad

Various desserts and much more

It IS supposed to be a proper wine bar and restaurant.   It is table service.

Unfortunately it is run and treated like a café/bar/lounge and is full of people with no intention of eating or drinking.

3 minutes ago, Vampiress88 said:

 

it’s because it’s different to sindu and epicurean that you are comparing it to. Those are both sit down table service meals. 
the glass house is basically a bar that serves a few small plates. Bit like the costa place you can get cake etc. 

 

I disagree.  Glass House IS a sit down table service venue.   You are served by dedicated staff, your table is laid out with place mats, napkins and cutlery and the menu is extensive.  Yes there are some small offerings if you are not too hungry but also there are main meals like fish and chips, steaks and much more.  There are starters, mains, light dishes etc etc.   It is absolutely nothing like a Costa bar and you should be mindful that you don't pay any extra for the sandwiches, cakes and other food at the Costa bar, it is all free so long as you are buying a coffee.  The food you buy at Glass House has a surcharge, because it is an "Alternative Dining" venue.    Costa bar is not alternative dining.

3 minutes ago, Vampiress88 said:

I will sit in the glass house. Drink or no drink. I don’t knit and I wouldn’t have a nap as no one wants to see that but I would do a crossword and my kids like to draw etc. 
I’ve only done azura so no idea what the other glass houses are like but we have sat in there many times and we have never eaten there. It’s really just a bar/lounge not a restaurant! 

You are simply describing exactly the problem I am outlining.  It IS a restaurant and an alternative dining venue yet it IS sadly being simply used as a bar/lounge.   The two imo don't go together.  It needs to decide which it is.   If it is the latter then stop charging people surcharges as if it were alternative dining.

On ‎2‎/‎25‎/‎2020 at 10:10 AM, terrierjohn said:

I imagine they will bounce back eventually, unfortunately as Covid19 progresses, there is potential for further falls still to come. 

I might dust off my check book if they get below £20.

Totally agree.  I think a lot of shares will take a real dive due to the virus.  Anything travel related. 

If you are considering Carnival shares then I recommend you keep an eye on the declared "Short Positions".  These are reverse investments, i.e the companies are generally betting that the share price will fall, not rise and it can be a good indicator of where the share price might go.   

All short positions by law must be declared to the Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) and the FCA maintain a daily and historical list of all such short positions against every company on the stock market.   It is in the form of an Excel Spreadsheet and can be downloaded from the FCA website here:

http://www.fca.org.uk/your-fca/short-positions-daily-update

Remember this updates daily so keep an eye on it.

There are 2 worksheets.  The first are the "Current Disclosures".  These are the latest positions declared (usually from yesterday).  Search for Carnival in Column B to find any short positions.  Today I can see there is one by Blackrock Investments.

The second sheet is the historical list of all previous and currently open short positions.  Again just search for Carnival (or any other share you are interested in) in Column B.

If you already knew all of this then please forgive me for teaching you to suck eggs, otherwise I hope it is helpful to you.

ATB

10 hours ago, terrierjohn said:

On my Ventura cruises there always seems to be tables available if you want to eat, despite lots of people using it for relaxing and reading or similar.  Azura has a different vibe, it was designed specifically as the glass house, but is far less relaxing than Ventura and not to my taste at all, as a result I rarely use it.

I don't see why anyone would seek to criticise passengers who don't really want a daytime alcoholic drink, but do want somewhere inside to sit and relax. 

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you that there are generally tables available although when the weather is wet or rough outside I have found that tables become much harder to find.

In terms of the comments regarding where should 3000 people go on the ship, well there are numerous lounges, bars and venues imho.  On Ventura alone there's the extensive Tamarind venue, there is Havannah (often empty during the day), there's the Costa bar on deck 5 and all the atrium seating, there's the Metropolis bar at the aft of the ship, there's the Red Bar at the top of the atrium, there are sun loungers in the covered pool area, lots of seating in the buffet area and so on.

I think however that people are generally missing my point here.  The idea and philosophy of "Alternative Dining" venues where you are required to pay even more money for your food, is that they offer an "Enhanced experience"

Thus if you go to Sindhu you expect a lovely refined, tasty meal with excellent service which feels special and a cut above the MDR.  That's what you are paying for, an elevated experience and ambience and wider variety of food than the MDR.

You get this with Sindhu and the Marco Pierre restaurants but with Glass House it seems completely different   If you have people lolling asleep at the table next to you or sat playing cards or knitting then how is that any kind of enhanced experience.  You simply wouldn't find this in any restaurant ashore.   You couldn't turn up to even a local Nando's restaurant ashore and say "Hi, I don't want any food or drink thanks I just wanted somewhere to sit and do my knitting" !!!

Why then is this situation permitted in the The Glass House venues?    That's all I am saying.

To also be clearer I think the food served in the Glass House venues is fantastic.  Interesting and different lunches and the rib eye steak in the evening is delicious.  I just don't want to be eating lunch next to knitters, card players and sleepers, especially if I am paying a supplement for the privilege.