Denarius

On 6/12/2024 at 2:56 PM, Thejuggler said:

Somewhere like Skye will probably end up with restrictions.

 

The island can barely cope with the visitors arriving by car, adding a few extra thousand arriving by ship doesn't improve things.

I think that most smaller ports will eventually, simply because their infrastructure cannot cope with the number of passengers now being disgourged by the big ships. And smaller ships may also be affected. A stop at Arendal in Norway on my forthcoming cruise on Spirit of Adventure has been cancelled because the port has limited access to ships over 230 metres long; SofA (58K tonnes, 999 passengers) is 234! We are now going to Gothenberg instead.

On 6/12/2024 at 12:26 PM, MBP&O2/O said:

Even Venice is about tighten up their regs and are going to clamp down on tour group sizes!

Venice has already banned most cruise ships from docking in the city, they now dock at Trieste and bus passengers in. The main reason given was the damage caused to the wooden piles on which the city is built. but over tourism undoubtedly also played a part.

What is the future for cruising, and for big ships in particular?
When I started cruising some 30 years ago, cruise ships typically carried 600 to 800 passengers; the 1800 passenger QE2 was regarded as huge. And there were considerably fewer of them than there are nowadays. It was unusual to see more than two ships in port, and usually you were the only one in town. And ports easily absorbed the their passengers. But things have changed and the QE2 would now be regarded as a mid size ship, possibly even a small one. New ships today can carry over 5000 passengers and it is not unusual to see two or more in port. Ports struggle to absorb their passengers.
This has obviously serious long term implications for the cruise industry. Whilst the mass market cruise lines like large ships for their economies of scale and some (but not all) passengers like them for their wealth of facilities, ports increasingly do not. Several have taken or are planning steps to restrict the number of cruise ships and passengers in port on any one day, and to limit the size of ships they will accept. So whilst cruise lines continue to launch ever more big ships, they may find it increasingly difficult to find ports to accept them. They might eventually find them limited to a small number of large ports which can absorb them and spend the rest of their time at sea. Acceptable to the new breed of cruiser who sees the ship as the prime destination - a resort hotel at sea - and may not even get off the ship but not to the more traditional ones who see the ports as the primary destination and the ship as the means of seeing them.

Will the industry continue to design large ships which may be fated to spend most of their time at sea?  Or will these developments result in fewer big ships and more smaller ones. Only time will tell.

2 hours ago, Kohima said:

If greenwashing were the issue, surely the place to start would be the mountain of plastic water bottles handed out at every port. It was disappointing on a recent cruise to see several of these very bottles, barely used, discarded near to the coach excursion meeting point. If folk must have water on a 2 hour trip in temperate weather, they could use their own refillable bottles. Interesting, too, that paper crosswords, news sheets and puzzles are freely available every day.

I would pose the question, has the tours and travel operation been outsourced, as entertainment definitely has, and the decision to stop providing maps is not therefore Saga’s. 

I have taken several river cruises with Riviera. They supply a complementary refillable water bottle for every passenger, yours for use throughout the cruise and to take home afterwards if you so wish. As well as being an ecological solution to the problem of plastic waste it is also an advertising medium as the bottles carry the cruise line's logo.

17 hours ago, Spence55 said:

No longer providing paper maps is probably part of a greenwashing project. It’s bizarre to see companies such as Saga and Fred O link up with ORCA while running their ships on bunker fuel, the dirtiest fuel there is. So I believe not providing maps is not penny pinching, but part of someone’s Key Performance Indicator to make Saga seem more eco friendly. 

You could be right. But then, why do they still provide them on their river cruise ships? Surely the effect on the enviroment is the same?

On 5/2/2024 at 5:21 PM, Denarius said:

RE maps. I too would like to know who took this incredibly stupid decision. Apart from the issues you raise, keep getting your phone out to look at a map is not a particularly good idea in many locations unless you want to be mugged for it, and one which I would prefer to avoid. And where does this leave those who do not have one? A few months ago I took a Saga river cruise on SotR and excellent paper maps were provided at every berth. So why cannot they be provided for sea cruises?

Further to the above post, the BBC ran a story on Breakfast today about the dangers of using mobile phones on the street. Apparently there has been an outbreak of thefts in which phones have been snatched from users by thieves on motorcycles, who can then get access to confidential information thereon because the user was logged in when the phone was stolen. Do Saga really want to put their customers at risk as a result of their failure to provide paper maps? They should reverse this stupid penny pinching decision without delay.

14 hours ago, P&O SUE said:

I’ve heard the Glasshouse wasn’t open for food on the last cruise, is this still the case does anyone know?

If it was it would be a definite improvement. The Glass House was originally a stylish wine bar, a more up market alternative to Brodies. It offered wines chosen by Ollie Smith which were not available elsewhere on the ship, all available by the glass as well as the bottle - hence Glass House. Whilst snacks were available eating was not its prime activity. I find it sad that it has now become just another restaurant.

My understanding is that ocean cruise ships are no longer to be allowed to berth in Amsterdam and that the cruise terminal near Piet Heinkade has been or will be closed. A visit last November on a Saga river cruise ship (still welcome) seemed to confirm this. We were tied up there at the quay where the ocean ships (used to?) berth but the terminal itself was locked and we had to go ashore by going around it rather than through it.

21 hours ago, jeanlyon said:

P&O once moved me from my chosen PF mid-forward on D Deck to a "higher" grade mid-aft on A deck.   A deck is not an upgrade for me.  I would never choose to be up there.  They had to move me back as I had booked Select and chosen No Upgrade!

Neither would I.

Azura and Ventura are a particularly fraught area. Many people choose an outside cabin on C deck because of the large balconies on that deck but can find themselves "upgraded" to an identical cabin with a smaller balcony on another deck because the latter is in a higher grade.

2 hours ago, Dermotsgirl said:

Norovirus is more commonly spread on surfaces, that’s why hand washing is so important.

 

There are other, commonly circulating viruses that are airborne….. 

 

 

As I understand it (I am not an expert so stand to be corrected) Norovirus is viral infection, as opposed to many (most?) other stomach infections which are caused by bacteria, often in infected food. Antibacterial gels are ineffective against it, regular handwashing is essential if it is to be contained.

I am from the UK and have sailed solo with Star Clippers about ten times. I have never been offered a cruise without the standard 50% single supplement and have personally never seen one advertised in the UK. Has anyone?

Scandinavia is largely cashless. Virtually everywhere accepts credit and debit cards and some places are card only, including some public toilets!

4 hours ago, Denarius said:

All this seems very tedious. P&O overcomplicating things again? I sail mainly with another line. When I book I am asked whether I will be in need of any mobility assistance under any foreseeable circumstances during the cruise. I answer (truthfully) no, but should I have answered yes I presume that further questions would have been asked. My booking confirmation then includes a specific section headed "Assisance" which states (in my circumstances) "We confirm that you have declined any assistance throughout your cruise. We therefore confirm that you will make your own way on board the ship upon your arrival and are happy not to receive mobility assistance at any point during your cruise." Clear and simple.

To amplify my post, I believe that if the issue is so important (and I personally believe it to be so) then

Specific questions should be asked during the booking process before the booking is accepted by P&O

The answers given and the level of support which would be provided as a result should be specifically highlighted in the booking confirmation sent to the customer even if the answer (as in my case) is that no assistance is  requested or needed. This should be in a communication sent to the customer, the customer should not be expected to root around on a website to find it.

If this practice were followed any miscommunication should quickly come to light, allowing prompt action to be taken if necessary.

All this seems very tedious. P&O overcomplicating things again? I sail mainly with another line. When I book I am asked whether I will be in need of any mobility assistance under any foreseeable circumstances during the cruise. I answer (truthfully) no, but should I have answered yes I presume that further questions would have been asked. My booking confirmation then includes a specific section headed "Assisance" which states (in my circumstances) "We confirm that you have declined any assistance throughout your cruise. We therefore confirm that you will make your own way on board the ship upon your arrival and are happy not to receive mobility assistance at any point during your cruise." Clear and simple.

4 hours ago, Host Sharon said:

Yes, beer battered cod is gluten free.

But what does it taste like? Sadly, in my experience when things go gluten free they rarely taste as good as they did before.

6 hours ago, S1971 said:

 

Glad to see P&O are thinking if the planet by removing disposable cups, at least you can BUY one of theirs, just like alcohol (spirits) you can't bring your own due to HESS but don't worry you can BUY from us whilst onboard.

 

For your benefit we've reduced the menu choices, but don't worry if theres nothing you like you can opt to dine in our various ADDITIONAL pay restaurants

 

Dear oh dear, goodbuy P&O oh goodbye sorry.

I have taken several river cruises with Riviera. Riviera do not supply bottles of water to take ashore but have a drinking water dispenser in the onboard coffee station. All passengers are supplied with a complimentary refillable water bottle which is theirs for use during the cruise and to take home with them afterwards should they so wish. It had the company logo on it so doubles as an advertising medium. P&O could supply a similarly branded complimentary reusable coffee cup should they so choose but opt instead to charge for one.

16 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

Looks healthy if investors have patience. 

 

They will escape the trap and costs of the fixed price 3 year insurance deals by end of this financial year. Debt on ships is being paid off.

 

Unless the unexpected happens,  which is always possible,  will be a very profitable company by 2026. 

 

So not desperate for a partnership at any terms. But one that is win win

I agree. The insurance business is still the fly in the ointment but the travel arm appears to be booming, especially cruises. 88% is a good average occupation rate for ocean cruises especially when you consider that Saga does not benefit from extra berths in cabins during school holidays. And the river cruise business probably still has plenty of scope for growth.

In my early days of sailing with P&O I would have regarded Cunard, Princess, Royal Caribbean and Celebrity as P&Os main rivals, offering a similar product at a similar price point. Since then P&O have imo moved down market and operate at a lower price point than those named; people comment on these boards how expensive these companies now are, whereas the reality is that P&O are now cheap. Currently I would regard Marella, Ambasador and possibly MSC as P&Os main rivals for the market they are now chasing, with the next tier up reprented by those previously named and the one above by the likes of Viking, Saga and Oceania.

17 hours ago, Angel57 said:

My gut feeling is that there is an element of truth in this. Social media is full of it and some are threatening never to book with P&O again! What an over-reaction over a litre of spirits.

Over reaction indeed. And who are they going to book with instead, as to my knowledge virtually all other lines have similar restrictions except those which are all inclusive? Or are they going to book with the latter for the sake of drinking their own favourite brand instead of the one for which they have already paid in their all inclusive fare? Joined up thinking, please!

11 minutes ago, Lee Jones Jnr said:

P&O is a business and this was always going to happen once the race to the bottom started.

It’s always seemed mad to me that people are so desperate to save £3-4 that they bother taking on a bottle anyway rather than just getting a bottle delivered to the cabin and I dislike the constant Facebook threads about how to smuggle more on.

It seems a little tragic that some are thinking of smuggling on something because P&O don’t sell it too, just drink something that they do sell or if it’s that important cruise with a line that sells what you want.

I agree. I've always thought it odd that people will spend thousands of pounds to go on a cruise then go to inordinate lengths to save a few pounds onboard.

4 hours ago, nosapphire said:

I wondered whether it was because some of the guest entertainers are on cheap/free deals and not all-inclusive. Asking for cabin number would bring up guest details and enable billing.

 

I am quite happy to book and pay online (via home desktop computer) but find it much, much easier to read a printed brochure - especially when two of us are trying to decide which, if any, excursions to book. And if I had to try and read details on a 'phone or even a tablet, I probably would not even bother.

Keep meaning to ask Saga which deluded soul thought that putting a map on the TV screen and suggesting people take a photo on their phone for shore use was a good idea.

Apart from the fact that even on the TV one has to scroll down to get the whole map, the ship location is rarely, if ever, shown - and our last map was entirely in Spanish.

RE maps. I too would like to know who took this incredibly stupid decision. Apart from the issues you raise, keep getting your phone out to look at a map is not a particularly good idea in many locations unless you want to be mugged for it, and one which I would prefer to avoid. And where does this leave those who do not have one? A few months ago I took a Saga river cruise on SotR and excellent paper maps were provided at every berth. So why cannot they be provided for sea cruises?

On 4/26/2024 at 12:23 AM, Lee Jones Jnr said:

So is the general feeling here that Ocean Village were just a little ahead of their time?

I think that they were. In context, you have to remember that at the time Ocean Village were launched the cruise business was radically different than it is today. Fixed time (ie, club) dining was usually the only option at dinner; the buffet was only open for lunch and breakfast. A three tier dress code applied in the evening throughout the ship; casual (ie smart casual) informal (jackets and ties for men) and formal (black tie). Against this background, a cruise line which offered flexible dining with no formal dress code was a radical departure. Nowadays of course, it does not appear as radical as most cruise lines have adopted parts of the Ocean Village modus operandum.

13 hours ago, GerryL13 said:

I get most of my communications digitally -- including bills. No brochures at all from Saga as they don't routinely mail those internationally. (I am flooded with brochures from Viking and Oceania, though.)

With digital communication, I print out the pages I want to keep and highlight. So, yes, paper is consumed, but fewer pages, and it doesn't need to be carted around in airplanes or trucks.

That is your personal choice. Not everyone however, has an internet connection, home computer and printer. Indeed, a survey by AgeUK earlier this month ( https://www.ageuk.org.uk/latest-press/articles/2024/more-than-1-in-3-over-65s-4.7-million-lack-the-basic-skills-to-use-the-internet-successfully/  ) indicated that more than one in three of the over 65s - Saga's main clientelle - lack the basic skills to use the internet succesfully and that one in six do not use it at all.

24 minutes ago, Fionboard said:

Smart casual.

Agree. As I recall it the dress code was indicated on the invitation as Smart Casual, which I interpreted as being anything which would be accepable in the main dining room on other than a Black Tie night. I usually wore chinos and an open necked shirt, although I recall that I once wore a plain (ie, non logo) tee shirt without comment.

9 minutes ago, david05 said:

Some passengers do receive an email but not all. We are registered for email but received no information about excursions available to book for our most recent 2 cruises. It all seems to be rather a lottery now.

I agree that the present situation is far from satisfactory.

Although I have fibre internet access with a home computer, printer and iphone I opt to receive my communications in paper form as I find it more convenient to refer to; also, I like to highlight and annotate important information. Despite this I find increasingly that I receive communications by email only, excursions for my next cruise being a case in point. I do not normally go on excursions preferring to explore independently, so when I received the email 2 days ago I took no immediate action. After reading this thread I decided out of curiosity to have a look and found that several are already sold out even though the cruise is not until July. If I did not have internet access and an email address I would not have even known that they were on sale!