Denarius

3 hours ago, carlanthony24 said:

It amazes me when during the decent you tell them in preparation for landing please make sure seats are in the up right position, arm rests are down and windows blinds open the amount of people that don’t listen to it or even listen to the safety demonstration. Favourite one departing/landing at night. The lights will now be dimmed incase of an emergency please use the reading light above you. Turn the lights back on erm no.

My favourite hate are "yappers". People who seem unable to keep their mouths shut during an announcement and keep on talking, preventing other people from hearing the announcement as well. Then they complain that no one told them. Yes they did, but you did not stop yapping to listen.

1 hour ago, Selbourne said:

You are quite right that P&O don’t target mature cruisers any more, but isn’t the issue more about the fact that Aurora and Arcadia don’t appeal to the target market that you so accurately describe, whereas Iona and Arvia don’t appear to a lot of the older traditional cruisers? Generalisations, I know, and there are plenty of exceptions (including some forum members) both ways, but more accurate than not overall I suspect. 
 

Whilst the average age of P&O cruisers may well be 42, that isn’t universal across all ships. In fact it varies enormously. We’ve done quite a few cruises on Aurora where the average age has been around 75, whereas we’ve been on many cruises on the larger ships where the average age has been 30 years lower. These aren’t my guesstimations, but facts quoted by the Captains in the welcome addresses. 
 

The new generation of cruisers want all the bells and whistles that the new ships have (entertainment, dining choices etc etc) and would find Aurora and Arcadia to be severely lacking in that regard. Equally, many of those who have been on countless cruises will find the very limited and repetitive itineraries of the behemoths to be unappealing and will prefer the more port intensive (and smaller ports) itineraries that Aurora and Arcadia do. Very different markets but obviously the latter is a declining market whereas the former is expanding, hence P&Os market re-positioning. As you say, interesting times ahead. 

I agree with most of what you write, except for the final sentence.

I believe that the market for traditional cruises such as those on Arcadia and Aurora has probably not changed much this century, and will not do so. There will always be a market for voyages to interesting ports on smaller ships offering a more intimate experience. What has changed is that the overall cruise market has grown much larger, expanded by people who would not previously have considered a cruise. The expectations of the new cruisers are different than the more traditional ones, with more emphais on onboard facilities and entertainment. A floating resort hotel which is as important a destination as the ports visited, pehaps more so. P&O obviously see the later market as their main one. Whether and for how long they will also compete in the more traditional market in competition with the likes of Viking, Saga, Oceania and Azamara remains to be seen.

On 12/18/2023 at 6:16 PM, Medeba said:

We liked our one Viking Ocean cruise very much (Northern Lights Jan 2019) but we paid more per night for that cruise than we have ever done and that's nearly five years ago!  I would like to cruise with them again but we too are no longer keen on flying (but would do it for a special cruise).  I haven't checked recently but I think Saga's prices are a fair amount less than Viking's, especially if you book at pre registration time.  Saga's entertainment is definitely better and it is 'all inclusive' which Viking isn't.  I do prefer the Viking ships - they are so stylish - but, overall, I think Saga is better value for money. We do miss the international passenger vibe on Saga, though.

I would seriously consider Viking ocean cruises if they were solo friendly, but regretably they are not. They have no single cabins and charge a 100% single supplement for sole occupacy of a twin, ie double fare. Saga meanwhile have 100 single cabins on each of their ships with an effective single supplement (vis a vis a twin) of 40% to 50%.

5 hours ago, Goosebear Mum said:

Yes, we had an ‘overnight’ in Hamburg where we actually left in the very early hours, I cannot remember when, as I was asleep, but 1am or 2am.  I only found out before the cruise, as I always look up the local cruise port arrival/departure times.  
 

I do think P&O ought to make these clearer, when an overnight is not a true overnight… we don’t spend most or all of the night in port.  

It used to be described as "evening in port", which is more accurate.

11 hours ago, Dermotsgirl said:

I always what was the cultural norm at the time. When they suggested an amount and provided an envelope for handing to the steward/waiter, I did that. When gratuities were added to the onboard account, I paid by that method. When P&O said that tips were no longer required, I took them at their word and didn’t give it a second thought.

 

 

Exactly. When tipping was expected I used to do so at the recommended rate. When tips were automatically added I left them in situ. After it was stated that tips were no longer required or expected I ceased to tip on the basis that the staff would be rewarded appropriately by P&O and that continuing to tip would ammount to paying twice, and that it may become the new norm. From this thread it appears that the latter fears have been realised.

16 hours ago, pete14 said:

Our recent cruise on Aurora to the north of Norway was the same but I didn’t pick up any adverse comments. I realise it says ‘overnight in port’ but it also says depart early morning’ and that this could be a bit confusing, but I don’t see any real cause for complaint.
 

I must say that I think it is a bit unfair to expect crew members to man the gangway and scan you back onboard in the early hours of the morning in potentially extreme cold weather.

To me "overnight" means "for the period between sunset and sunrise". Departing at 1:30am is not overnight. As regards manning the gangway, on all the cruises I have taken with an overnight stay the gangway has been manned throughout the ships stay in port. Indeed, in my experience the people most likely to arrive back in the early hours have been off duty crew members taking advantage of the local nightlife, as I would heve done at their age!

5 hours ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

What lessons can be learnt exactly?

 

This kind of thing happens all the time with all airlines doesn't it?

 

Planes have issues that cause another plane to be needed on occasion?

It does. I recently flew from Manchester to Amsterdam and back on scheduled flights with a reputable national carrier. The outward flight was excellent and the plane had good sized seats and plenty of legroom. Not so the return flight. We were advised that a chartered aircraft was being used and that all wheeled cabin cases should be stored in the hold at no extra charge as storage in the cabin was extremely limited; a harbinger of things to come. The plane, owned by an airline I had never heard of before and whose name I have since forgotten, was the worst I have ever encountered in over 50 years of flying. The seats were so narrow that I felt cramped, and I am only 5 foot 5 inches and weigh about 9 stone 9 pounds. And my knees were only about 3 or 4 inches from the back of the seat in front of me. So if this can happen on a scheduled flight, what hope for charters?

59 minutes ago, JoJo1947 said:

Make them walk the plank.

Or be tarred and feathered!

14 hours ago, Windsurfboy said:

Agree, I'm sure if anyone  wanted an 8.30 or even 8pm slot could go when ever they want, a lot have left by then. The 6.30 to 7 ish seem most popular and would be hard to get more than your "ration" .

 

We've also started going to speciality restaurants on formal nights, if you have an officer hosted table near you in main dining room,  they get all the attention,  other tables can wait for ages. 😦 Butler had no trouble getting extra reservations. 

I took my first Saga ocean cruise 2 years ago after sailing with other lines since the 1990s. One thing which surprised me was how early Saga passengers dined. On other lines my preferred time for dinner had been around 8pm which was usually a fairly busy time, but when I went down to the MDR at that time it was obvious that virtually everyone else was already seated. Indeed, I overheard someone comment in a shocked voice "he has only just come in"! So I went with the flow and dined earlier, but one upside was that bookings in the speciality restaurants appeared to much more freelly available if you were prepared to eat at 8pm or later. Saga passengers obviousy keep early hours. 🙂

PS It appears that this also applies to Saga river cruises. I took my first one a few weeks ago. Dinner was from 7pm but virtually all the ship was seated by 7:15. A "late night" snack was served in the lounge at 10:30!!!

19 minutes ago, LandC said:

That’s even later than last year!  

Too late for me. My plan was to book a Saga cruise of 14 nights or more in the Summer as my "sheet anchor" and then work around it, but by March early booking discounts on my alternatives (river cruises) may well have dissappeared. So they may well have to be my first port of call if I see something that attracts my attention, with Saga as my second string.

Have sailed on both. The deck plans are the same apart from The Club. On SofD it has an open middle section looking down into the MDR below, which effectively resticts musical performances until after diners in tha latter have left. On SofA there is no open section, making The Club much bigger and allowing music at any time.

As regards decor, it is a matter of personal taste; SofD is more resrained, SofA more vibrant.

The main difference is as regards the speciality restaurants.

5 hours ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

I have been sent this video of last night's entertainment on board

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/fAWPWURVEWf8tenD8

 

Sorry it wouldn't let me load the video. Just the image.

 

They said they were great though

Video played fine on my laptop, and they were! May depend on your browser; I am using Firefox.

17 hours ago, JMMKUK said:

Must be the time of year or something. The Christmas cruises we've been on have always had plenty guests in their 90s.

I was 50 when I went on Saga Rose, there was one guest younger than me, with his wife & her elderly  Aunt. Most of the guests on that cruise had children in their 50s so it was like being with our parents.

Whilst I have only been on 3 Saga cruises so far I have found that the average age of passengers varies substantially depending on the time of year and the itinerary. Passengers on my Winter cruise to the Canaries (retirees like me after a bit of Winter warmth?) were noticably older than on my Summer cruise to the Baltic.

On 11/6/2023 at 12:43 PM, JoJo1947 said:

Just checked and still saying coming soon 

Could be that your browser is loading the page from its cache rather than reloading it. Try refreshing it.

I first visited the USA in 1982, well before the visa waiver programme was introduced. In those days you needed a non resident visa for which you applied by post, sending your passport which was duly returned with a visa stamped in it. I was granted an indefinate visa valid for multiple entries even if the passport in which it was stamped had expired; all I needed to do was present the old passport with the current one. Then came the attack on the twin towers and all such visas were revoked.....

1 hour ago, Truro001 said:

We have been to several talks given by officers in which this particular problem has been raised by concerned passengers. We have variously been told that the problem is due to the poor quality of the fuel when the ship was last refuelled, the internal design of the funnel, incorrect computer settings and also adverse atmospheric conditions. Plausible answers but still no solution. 

Whilst I am a recent convert to Saga and have only been on 3 cruises - two on SofD and one on SofA - I have never noticed a problem despite eating on the Verranda many times. Perhaps I have been lucky. But my hunch is that it largely depends on the relative speeds and directions of the wind and the ship; whether the soot is carried clear of the ship or deposited back on it.

I have never occupied one of the cabins you name, but on my first Star Clippers cruise occupied an equivalent cabin on the deck below. It was Hobson's choice; it was the only one still available, but I got it at a bargain price.

The bed was a fixed double right up against the hull. It was raised a metre or so above the floor - the reason for this being the curvature of the hull - and was accessed by a small fixed ladder. I was sailing alone, but if two people occupied the bed the one nearest the hull would not have been able to get in or out without disturbing the other. I found the cabin very noisy when the ship was sailing under power and would not occupy such a cabin again, even if it was the only one left. Others may feel differently.

2 hours ago, Bill Y said:

Maybe P&O hopes socially that eating included food becomes stigmatised and people will be worried to be seen as cheapskates unless they eat in speciality restaurants or pay for these upgrades? The time to worry is when P&O keeps the included options for paupers and marks then on the menu with a P to avoid confusion.

 

Many a true word spoken in jest!

It is. I remember a few years ago when in response to the introduction of "select" - ie pay extra - restaurants someone suggested tongue in cheek (I hope!) that eventually only meals in the buffet would be included in the basic price, with everything else chargeable. Does not sound as far fetched now!

7 hours ago, Britboys said:

No, I don't think they will be phasing out included meals in a mdr. What is however more of a possible issue is whether the mdr food budget will be deliberately cut, thereby (deliberately) lowering the quality with a view to getting more pax to stump up cash for the extra-charge items. It could also be possible that they could increase the number of extra-charge items at the expense of the number of included items. Of course, it would all be as a result of passenger feedback...

Or you will find that items which used to appear on the included MDR menu become chargeable, with eventually only the most basic fare being at no extra charge. The thin end of a potentially thick wedge.

7 hours ago, nudistcruzer said:

I think it is the ship previously known as the Flying Clipper. Really, what else could it be? It is probably a sign that it is getting close to finding a buyer. Hopefully if that buyer is going to use the vessel as a cruise ship, they will lease it to Star Clippers.

The photograph was taken in the Adriatic last Thursday by a passenger on Spirit of Adventure whilst sailing between Split Croatia and Italy.

50 minutes ago, Bin man said:

C deck balconies are the best for us quite large can sit back in the shade if you want to ,are over looked from A and B decks but inturn you overlook D deck but that's not a problem to us 

Only the open part of a C deck balcony is overlooked. The part under the B deck balcony is not.

1 hour ago, SeaJane said:

I agree that roast potato was an odd thing to put with the salmon, but as you demonstrated it was easy to ask for an alternative if that didn’t suit. I had the chicken on a couple of occasions as did others on our table and found it very good. My husband described the sirloin steak as tender and juicy with a lovely mushroom sauce. I think we’ll have to agree to differ on this Jean! 

Those long in the tooth will remember the old days, when there was silver service of vegetables. Unfortunately these were invariably chosen to compliment the roast of the day, so you could end up with fish accompanied by roast potatoes and brussels sprouts! At least nowadays the vegetables (usually) compliment the individual dishes.

1 hour ago, Denarius said:

The attached photo was taken a few days ago by a passenger on Saga's Spirit of Adventure and posted as part of a blog (by NorbertsNiece) on the Saga board. Picture taken at night so details unclear, but shows a five masted sailing ship. She is square rigged on 4 masts with just a spanker (?) on the rear, like the Golden Horizon/Flying Clipper. Is it she, and if so who is sailing her?

Picture of Golden Horizon for comparison. Pretty sure that the ship photographed by NorbrtsNiece was she. General shape is the same, particularly bows and stern and superstucture between fore and main masts, and relative height of rear mast.

The attached photo was taken a few days ago by a passenger on Saga's Spirit of Adventure and posted as part of a blog (by NorbertsNiece) on the Saga board. Picture taken at night so details unclear, but shows a five masted sailing ship. She is square rigged on 4 masts with just a spanker (?) on the rear, like the Golden Horizon/Flying Clipper. Is it she, and if so who is sailing her?

15 hours ago, arlowood said:

Where are you docking for the Venice port of call. Is it at Fusina or Chioggia. Hope not Ravenna as some other cruise lines have been forced to adopt. Ravenna is pushing it a bit as a "Venice" port of call.

Ravenna is an interesting historic city in its own right. I have visited there on a cruise as a featured destination with no mention of Venice, which is some distance away.