DryCreek

22 hours ago, roeco9084 said:

how far was she towed? Thought would of sailed on her own!

She probably would have come in under her own power (she had engines running), but many congested ports require tugs.  Plus, look at the flags fluttering nearly straight out - that was a very stout wind they were fighting to dock her.

When I look at that ship I see superficial surface corrosion.  All of that could easily be chipped, primed and painted over in about 48 hours.  I also see more balconies on her than possibly other ships in her class.  Interesting.  According to WikiPedia, she is equipped with twin shafts, and fore/aft thrusters - no azipods.  That could be a handicap.  Maybe.

4 minutes ago, ninjacat123 said:

Thank you for your service!

It was my pleasure.

While I bellyached and complained a lot (as any 17 year old would), after six years that really seemed to drag out, I left the service with a skill that has kept me in well-paying jobs for over 35 years now.

I feel that I have my country to thank for making it all possible.  I've lived a comfortable life because of that experience.  Not rich, but certainly middle-middle class.  Quite a step up from my upbringing (and siblings, still locked in poverty).

3 hours ago, simplelife said:

My very first cruise was on Imagination. Hate to see her go 🙂

My first cruise was on the U.S.S. Phoenix (SSN-702).

I didn't seem to miss her as much though.

21 hours ago, ch09 said:

While Mobile can dock bigger ships, the terminal was originally built to accommodate the Holiday. Once Fantasy class ships came to Mobile, parking has been an ongoing issue at the terminal. The terminal would need to be expanded to do that. The City of Mobile is also in debt on the current one and made a big deal when Carnival pulled out the first time as no money was coming in to pay the debts for it.

Well, isn't that a coincidence?  The MS Grand Grand Celebration was the last ship built in the Carnival Holiday class.  Why, she'd fit right in.

But, I'm only partially kidding.

That's what I like about this forum, you can learn stuff without being called a dummy.

I guess that I used the terminology "distant foreign port" incorrectly.  I was just proposing closed-loop cruises from Mobile, but with a different carrier that has established ports o' call in two "foreign" ports.  I would hate to see Carnival abandon a home port, but if they did, it would be great if another upstart cruise line could fill the void - and be successful.

Hmmmm Puerto Rico has an exemption.  That's very interesting.  Heck, I'd go for a cruise to PR and back, if they offered one.  Just think, no one to verbally punish you if you don't have a passport.  

ETA - Oh yeah, I forgot to ask - why is it that a Fantasy-class ship is needed to service Mobile?  From looking at the satellite view maps, the cruise terminal appears to be south of the I-10 bridge, and right on the Mobile River.  Draft?  Keep in mind that they repaired the Triumph there (now Sun something).  Couldn't a ship of that class replace an F-Class one?

1 hour ago, BlerkOne said:

 

Just an option if they are going to pick up passengers in Mobile (or New Orleans or Galveston) and disembark them in Florida (or pick them up in San Juan on the way back). The ship has to either do a closed loop cruise, or stop in San Juan to bypass the antiquated US cabotage laws.

San Juan Puerto Rico?

That's a U.S. Territory and doesn't count as a "distant foreign port", yet Nassau or Freeport in the Grand Bahamas does.

They still would not be able to disembark a Mobile passenger in Florida or SJ PR, nor would they be able to transport Fla passengers to Mobile without violating the PVSA, as I recall.  The closed-loop cruise I proposed would be from Mobile to Nassau, all guests would then disembark for hotels booked through a package deal.  It would be a four day stay.  Rather than have the ship sit idle in port, it would immediately go to Pam Beach and pick up passengers for one of their regular two-day cruises.  At the end of the two day cruise, all Palm Beach cruise-only passengers would depart, and they would pick up a load of passengers booked for cruise-stay in Nassau.  When the reach Nassau, all Palm Beach passengers disembark and go to hotels.  The passengers from Mobile, having spent four days ashore, reboard and return to Mobile.

Closed-loop cruise completed from two different homeports.  Never had I envisioned that one would be able to board at one port and finish at another (U.S.) port.

BPCL runs two-day cruises out of Palm Beach.  It takes a day each way to the two ports of call that they visit (depends on ship).  Then, it is one day back.  I was trying to make it possible for them to offer similar packages out of Mobile, but it is a two-day trip in either direction.  That requires some changes to be made in schedules. Of course if they really did pick up another ship, then they can run whatever schedule fits their needs out of a new home port.

22 hours ago, tidecat said:

It's going to be hard, though, competing with the major lines just down I-10 in New Orleans.

Aha!  That's exactly the type of critical thinking I was looking for.

I never really thought about how close Nawlins was to Mobile.  I just looked at it on a map - it's a shorter distance that I drive to Galveston from Central Texas.

You are right, they would have to really offer a unique package at an excellent price point to be able to stat a new itinerary out of Mobile.

20 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

 

They could do cruises from Mobile to San Juan via the Bahamas and then from San Juan to Palm Beach via the Bahamas. As long as no one bypasses San Juan, they should be okay.

 

If demand from Mobil is not sufficient for frequently sailings, they could do it once a month or so.

 

They don't pretend to be a cruise line for everyone.

I'm curious as to why they needed to stop in San Juan?

That is currently not a part of their itinerary as I read it.

10 hours ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

Hmm, I learned something new today!  I had no idea that they did this - I am actually a bit surprised they are allowed, but it obviously is.

 

Well then, yeah, in theory someone could do the route you suggested.  Although dropping off US pax for multi-day shore excursions in the US might lend it self to abusing the system, with people disappearing "home" a bit more easily than they can from the Bahamas.

I wasn't suggesting that they did hotel packages on US soil - they only offer packages in the Grand Bahamas and Nassau.

32 minutes ago, xDisconnections said:

Short, 5 days or less. As inexpensive as possible. As basic as possible (example- Cozumel, Cozumel/Calica, Cozumel/Costa Maya).

Uhm, have you gone to the Bahamas Paradise Cruise website?

Short, inexpensive cruises are their forte'.  It's sorta' like flying those ultra-low cost airlines, added costs for amenities normally included in the fare.  Just a basic cruise line using well kept older ships.

They do offer a unique package where you can sail to one of their ports of call and then disembark for up to six days while staying at a package hotel.  That beats flying, if you are in driving range of Palm Beach.

That's why I think that they could be in a unique position to assume a spot in Mobile if they are abandoned by Carnival.  Didn't they purchase one of the Fantasy class ships?

On 7/18/2020 at 10:54 PM, xDisconnections said:

Again, call me crazy, but I don’t think the Mobile market segment has enough people looking for what you are proposing to be profitable or competitive. It’s just not there.

 

And yes, that’s where the Triumph did go to.

I am curious as to what you think the ideal itinerary for the average Mobile passenger is.

I am not familiar with their offerings, nor how well they are accepted.

I was just thinking that if another operator, offering a novel new cruise experience, were to fill any void left by the departure of Carnival, it might just turn out to be more popular than most could imagine.

So, the cruise and stay package to either of BP lines ports of call would not sell well in the Mobile market?

11 hours ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

As mentioned, it is the issue with transporting passengers from one US port to another, different, US port.  Back and forth from one port to the same port (without dropping off or picking up any new pax) is clearly legal, it is how all cruises normally operate.

But I wasn't postulating that they would pick up in one spot and drop off at another.

I do understand how closed-loop cruises work.

Bahamas Paradise Cruises offers a package where they drop you off for a number of days at one of their ports of call.  You spend time ashore at a package hotel.  Then you board the ship and come home.

That ship does not sit at the harbor while some of the passengers are booked ashore.  Nope, it returns to its homeport and discharges the passengers that opted for cruise-only.  Then they head back to the same port with another load of both cruise-only and cruise-stay passengers - and while there, pick up the passengers that had booked cruise and stay packages for the return trip home.

What I was thinking of was finding a suitable schedule where they could leave Mobile with cruise and stay packages only, drop the passengers at the port of call, and then make a quick, shorter run during the time they are in the area (i.e. two-day cruise only bookings).  After making a closed-loop out of palm beach they would return to pick up the Mobile pax and return.

The only issue I see is deadheading to Palm Beach from either Grand Bahama or Nassau.  Of course, an excellent planner wouuld have them picking up a load of cruise-stay pax to defray the cost.  That is where timing would come in.

Under no circumstances would a MObile passenger be allowed to continue on to Palm Beach.

50 minutes ago, Thorncroft said:

Mobile is where cruise ships go to die. Mobile killed the Holiday and now the Fantasy.

I guess to be more clear, Mobile is where Carnival sends some older ships "to die".

I was proposing a new operator.  One that offers something different  - much the same way Carnival did in their early ears.

But on a lighter note - didn't Triumph go there to be "healed" after that power distribution fire?  Or at least patched up enough to return to limited service.  Of course she busted loose that one time to go and smash into that freighter that was making fun of her.  A real party gal, that Triumph!

10 hours ago, xDisconnections said:

 

Call me crazy but I don’t think that’s a suitable itinerary for the target demographic out of Mobile.

And that's why I mentioned the itinerary currently offered by Bahamas Paradise Cruise Line.

They have leadership that has been involved (heavily) in the industry for a long time, and just like when Carnival was an upstart company breaking into an already established business model with new ideas, this company may also seize on the possibility of adding a new port or two.  I do believe that they have contracted to purchase one of the Fantasy class ships from Carnival - and they are already running a whale-tale ship anyway.

Like Spirit Airlines which operates with a very limited fleet, BPCL could time a departure out of mobile and port in one of their two destinations, drop off those who booked a "Cruise and Stay Package", and then return to Mobile.  If they could book just C&S packages, then they could drop off a load, run to their other port (Palm Beach), pick up another group, drop them, pick up the original group, run them back to Mobile, and then start the cycle all over.

I would assume that Nassau and the Grand Bahamas would be a suitable itinerary for Mobile, but I am no expert on those demographics.

11 hours ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

The PVSA prohibits that, effectively, because the "distant foreign port" would have to be Aruba, Bonaire, or Curaçao (or somewhere else in South America) - Central America, Bermuda and the rest of the Caribbean do not count.  And they would have to do the same for Miami back to Mobile, unless they don't pick up passengers in Miami.  While that would be a nice cruise, I don't think it would be feasible as a regular booking.

 

I think a lot of thought went into the PVSA to ensure no-one could get creative in such manners...

I thought that Carnival was running a three day cruise out of Norfolk to Bermuda and back.  No PVSA  issues there, that I am aware of.

Bahama Paradise Cruise Lines offers two-day packages that leave Palm Beach, call on Grand Bahama Island or Nassau, and then back.  They even have a special package "Cruise and Stay Package" where you  cruise to either destination, stay two, four or six days, and then return to Palm Beach.

So, if they pick up another ship, and another port, why wouldn't they be able to offer the same packages out of Mobile?  Was Pam Beach exempted from the PVSA?

ETA - Baltimore to Bermuda is also apparently allowed.

11 hours ago, xDisconnections said:

Why does Carnival have to adapt to accommodate those markets? They can just as easily adapt on their own to accommodate Carnival. For example, if Jacksonville wants Carnival’s business, why can’t they move their terminal to the other side of the bridge?

 

To answer the question though, Island/Coral Princess are pretty small and many seem to hate Island after its refurb. It could be shuffled but it doesn’t match the onboard decor you’ll typically find on Carnival. I couldn’t name any other ships off hand from other cruise lines within CCL Corp.

Well, Carnival doesn't have to adapt.  They can just as easily write those ports off. 

It's easy to move a pin on a map.  Voila, the cruise terminal is now moved to the other side of the bridge.  Reality sets in when you start trying to find a suitable and affordable tract of land for the project.

But, for the forward-looking cruise operator with a smaller ship (or three), maybe this is an opportunity to expand service when the restrictions have been lifted.  Isn't at least one of the Fantasy class ships going to  the Bahama Paradise Cruise Line? 

Imagine if you did rotational cruises between two or more US ports.  Depart from Mobile, hit your distant foreign port and then port in Miami.  Do a two-night cruise to the Bahamas and then return to Mobile.  For the people not wanting to fly back home, they book a return leg after spending two days in Sunny Palm Beach in the Keys (booked as an excursion).  Of course that might be a real stretch for the "Closed Loop" cruise requirement, but a creative operator may be better at working out the details than I could with just an off-the-cuff idea.

It does make you wonder if Carnival will really abandon the markets that are limited by ship size.  Do any of the other lines under the Carnival umbrella have comparably sized ships that are newer and may be rebadged, or homeported at those locations?

1 minute ago, Aplmac said:

Victoria is 1996, mind you..

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Costa_Victoria

Some things are timeless though!

My daily driver is a 1995 Jeep YJ.

Probably not nearly as many miles as the Victoria has on her.

22 hours ago, EscapeFromConnecticut said:

Incorrect.

 

The CDC has full jurisdiction - with the USCG as its enforcement arm.

 

Since February, and "suggestions" and "puffery" about cruising have come from CLIA and the cruise lines themselves.

Read USC Title 42 a little more closely.  Yes, they have broad powers over emigrants and foreign visitors.  They are even given some latitude under the Commerce Clause though.  When it comes to establishing mandatory quarantines for U.S. citizens, they usually defer that to the state level.  It seems to me that here in Texas, should the cruise lines determine to return to service, they should be allowed to - for U.S. Citizens though. 

It is my opinion that much of the CDC recommendations are indeed puffery.  They tend to push regimens that benefit them through their ownership (directly and by committee members) of many patents dealing with transmissible disease prevention.  Link

12 hours ago, ledges1 said:

The industry needs new young cruisers, to survive. I think the industry has lost its luster at the moment to this group.

Are you referring to the younger Americans that consistently flock to the beaches and other public gatherings despite the hyped-up news about ScamDemic?

I think that this age demographic would be the first to return to cruising.  And, Carnival with its reputation as a younger-generation friendly line will be uniquely poised to capture the interest of those new, young cruisers.  All they need to do is tweak their itineraries and onboard offerings a tad and they're golden.

I live in a unique area.  Just to the north of our place is the western arrival glide path for DFW.  Just to the south is the approach to Love Field (DAL).  I would definitely agree that it is a wrong assumption that all flights have been halted.  Reduce?  Yes, halted?  No.  Not by a long stretch.  I would estimate that the total volume for both airports has been reduced by 50%, but certainly not more than that.  What has changed is the size of equipment being used (by American to DFW).  I see far more larger planes than before.

When I am bored I watch the planes as they glide over while I'm sitting on the tractor or just doing other outdoor chores. 

I just came across an interesting article:

http://ilikecruiseships.com/news/carnival-cruise-line/7-carnival-cruise-ships/

From this article they are stating that Carnival has set aside seven ships to assist in returning their crewmembers to their native country.  It sounds like an interesting plan, and I hope it goes well for them all.

Yesterday Dream ported and discharged a large number of crewmembers this morning.  Vista is now at the pier and offloading some more of her crew.

Goodspeed to them all. 

13 hours ago, KmomChicago said:

 

If the ship doesn't sail full, this gives the line a chance to try out some level of distancing between passengers rather than the normal crowded conditions. 

If the ship doesn't sail full, the cruise line loses money.  Why staff and sail a ship booked to say only 50 to 75% capacity?

If you can offer bargain-basement prices with new itineraries, and sail with 90 to 100% capacity, that may be the best option.  When the isolation ends and everyone is aching to just get away, three and four day cruises should be in high demand.  I think the cautious approach makes the best business sense - test the waters and see what the true demand is before you commit to restaffing and sailing larger vessels at a loss.

I've been thinking - while a lot of people think that the smaller Fantasy Class ships may be sold off at bargain basement process, I think that maybe they may be the first ones Carnival thinks about leading the return to cruising with.  Start out small to assess the demand, and then slowly start filling the larger ships as the smaller ones sell out.

On 4/7/2020 at 8:50 AM, Texas Tillie said:

(don't know if you were on Liberty of the Seas or Carnival Liberty),

LOS sails from Galveston, Carnival Liberty doesn't (Vista, Dream and Freedom).