DryCreek

1 minute ago, chengkp75 said:

That or Beaumont.

Beaumont would be cool!

When I was stationed in Norfolk, and later worked for NNS&DDCo, we would take our boats out and "visit" the ghost fleet in the James, on our way up to Scotland Wharf.

There is a lot of work that goes into pickling a ship for long-term storage.  I read tons about it, and strangely enough, I think I remember there being at least a whole chapter on that in the MM 2&3 manual. 

52 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

I'm sure that if two new ones are built, these two will go to the scrapyard, they are 44 years old.

Or, more likely to the ghost fleet anchored-up in the James River.

Just now, jimbo5544 said:

Lots of ‘cannot be broke’ rules being broken these days.  

True, but when you see the depth of the regulations for procurement of vessels to be used in the U.S.N., it would take months, and on top of that, you'd have a crisis on your hand as all of your go-to shipbuilders shut down production in protest.  Buying foreign-made ships does not serve the needs of our country - one that is currently focused on bringing back that type of industry to our shores.

Now, a lease by FEMA?  It's been done before.  But I don't see any way they'd purchase them.  They don't need any troop transports any more.

26 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

Tanker as a hospital ship???? Uuummmm.    Also confused by the black eye comment

The two current hospital ships in active status started out life as tankers.

The holds are easily sectioned off into wards and "theaters" (OR, OT, etc.).

20 hours ago, rolloman said:

I think people need to be thinking about the real possibility cruising will not start back up this year in the U.S. 

In the event this happens this will put the cruise lines on the brink of or possibly into Bankruptcy. I expect smaller fleets and a sell off of inventory across the board in order to survive. There is a possible buyer out there called the U.S. Navy...I am sure the President and Carnival brass have discussed this idea...the President didn't pull the idea out of thin air. 

Unless there is some regulatory relief, a ship built in a foreign shipyard, of foreign materials cannot be legally listed on the active ship rolls for the U.S. Navy.  Even our shipyards building the vessels for use in the Navy have to go produce mountains of paperwork to prove the source of materials used in construction.

NNSY&DDCo, 1988-1992.

Both of our current hospital ships started their life as tankers, and were cleverly repurposed.

I doubt that they would (could) purchase a foreign-built ship to keep on the U.S. Maritime roles.

Short term lease like post Katrina?  Most certainly.

19 hours ago, cscurlock said:

I read somewhere that they are burning 500 million a month with no ships moving.  How is that even possible?  I would bet they dock the ships for very little considering how much money they bring into the port/city when they are sailing.   With minimal crew moving between each ship doing basic maintenance since a lot of them are in the same port you don't need 4-5 crews. Maybe a high electric bill to keep the ac running.   Just seems like a lot of money.

The cost to keep a ship at the wet slip is the same regardless of them having revenue passengers or not.  NO savings there to keep them in port.

The electric bill is measured in tons of fuel burned.  They do not have the capacity to easily bring on shore power like the ships I was stationed on in the Navy.  Most cruise terminal piers are not designed to supply shore power.

The amount stated seems reasonable if you consider the amount of overhead they carry.  That, and as mentioned - interest and other obligations may not have been waived.

12 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

I believe he was actually nearer the end of this contract, maybe a month or so to go.  I can't load youtube or vlogs due to our bandwidth limitations on the ship, so I can't see his discussion, but I know of him from a thread here on CC.  From comments by others who have seen his videos, I understand he has not said whether it was crew nearing the end of their contracts or blanket dismissals by position.

Wow.  After he gets home he hears the announcement that 14 crewmates tested positive.  It has now ballooned to 51 confirmed.  His group that traveled home numbered 800.  That's right, 800 passing through Miami International Airport.  The remaining 1,600 crew members are having to closely quarantine.  By listening to the master's announcement (ShipLife youtube) it sounds like deck and engineering is the group to be in.  All others confined to their cabin, except for meals.

I was going back to listen to Chris's videos.  For some reason I thought he had just re-signed for his fifth contract.

Today, two crew members of LOS were carried by ambulance to UTMB in Galveston.  One is reported to have been immediately placed on a ventilator.  They neglected to warn the pilot, longshoremen or ambulance drivers responding to the pier.

15 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

I believe that for a short term lay-up, such as now, they are retaining most of the crew onboard, and sending off those whose contracts have expired, or are to expire during the lay-up, and their replacements won't be sent out until closer to the start up date.  Deck and Engine departments will be maintained at nearly full complement, as this is statutory manning, so about 100-150 in these two deprartments combined.  If they expect a longer lay-up, they would send the concessionaire personnel home (spa, casino, shop), then work through the cruise staff and then the hotel staff.  You would have to retain the crew galley staff, or at least part of it.  For an extended "warm" lay-up, you would most likely have 200-300 remaining onboard.

This is the link to the Guy that was on contract for RC (Chris)

He seems to imply that a good part of the crew was released from their contract.  Well, except for the necessary skeleton crew.  He had just started another contract too, as I believe he mentioned in his earlier videos.

If you go to the Galveston Cruise Cam, you can catch Vista docked today.  They are painting away and laying in some provisions. 

4 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

I believe that for a short term lay-up, such as now, they are retaining most of the crew onboard, and sending off those whose contracts have expired, or are to expire during the lay-up, and their replacements won't be sent out until closer to the start up date.  Deck and Engine departments will be maintained at nearly full complement, as this is statutory manning, so about 100-150 in these two deprartments combined.  If they expect a longer lay-up, they would send the concessionaire personnel home (spa, casino, shop), then work through the cruise staff and then the hotel staff.  You would have to retain the crew galley staff, or at least part of it.  For an extended "warm" lay-up, you would most likely have 200-300 remaining onboard.

Thanks for the analysis.

There is a guy on YouTube that had a "Vlog" about his employment with RCI.  He worked in the casino, and was on his fifth contract with them.  His contract was cut short and he was being sent home - along with "lot's of other crew members".  Still, maintaining even 300 on board is a large overhead to bear.  It's not like when I was in the Navy and we pulled into a berth and took on shore power.  They have to continuously burn fuel to run their generators, and periodically haul anchor to be able to make fresh water and dump sanitary tanks.  But, lessening the number of onboard crew does make the necessary jaunt less frequent.  And I'm sure that they've severely curtailed the number of hotel loads they are carrying.

6 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Yes, first you say they are "skirting" cabotage laws, and then in your first paragraph you say how they are "abiding" by those laws by not engaging in coastwise traffic.  By my definition of "skirting" they would be trying to do coastwise traffic with foreign flag ships somehow.

Ooops, you are correct.

Sorry, very wrong choice of words.  I guess what I was trying to convey is that by complying with the cabotage laws they were avoiding the taxation burden of being US flagged.

Mea Culpa, fogged by 100 proof vodka in my Bloody Mary.

Anyway, since you've joined the discussion, did you see my previous question?  What would a skeleton crew look like for a modern cruise ship that was stuck in a non-revenue condition - such as anchored-up, or moored?

I can guess Engineering and Navigation, and some other direct support staff.  Sort of like when we were in port while I was in the Navy.  All of the weapons, auxiliary, quartermaster and mess divisions were gone, while those of us in engineering (M-Division, E-Division, ET (Rx Operators) and I&C (really electricians) were stuck on the boat.

15 hours ago, xDisconnections said:

Jones Act refers only to cargo.

 

You must be confusing it with the PVSA.

Probably.

But I was going by the traditional definition of cabotage: "The transportation of passengers and goods within the same country.".

And, here's the Cruise Critic article clearing it all up for me.

11 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

How is flagging a ship in a foreign country skirting cabotage laws?  Cabotage only applies to coastwise trade, and the cruise ships do not participate in coastwise trade.  It is very much tax laws that drive the vast majority of the world's ships, not just cruise ships, to use flags of convenience.  In this particular instance, the Section 883 of the IRS Code allows that foreign corporations that operate vessels or airplanes in the US do not have to pay corporate taxes on the US earnings of those vessels or planes.

If a ship is involved in coastwise trade, it must be crewed by Americans, as I understand.  If the cruise ship does not have at least one "distant foreign port", then it is considered to be involved in coastwise trade.  Otherwise they would be operating historic East Coast Tours, or Gulf Coast Port tours, or New England fall cruises like the American Cruise Lines does.  By using the Jones Act as a model, flags of convenience are used.  While using the flags of convenience also gives them tax advantages in the countries they service, it also prevents them from going from one US port to another without an international stop.

Yes, I realize that in most instances (certain Alaskan cruises excepted) we are talking closed-loop cruises.

I would love to be able to take a cruise on a Fantasy class ship that boards in Galveston, has overnight stops in New Orleans, Gulfport, Mobile, Tampa and then Key West, with two sea days on a return.  But, the cruise line would have to have an American crew, and an American-flagged ship.  So, in my thinking the Jones Act forces cruise operators such as Carnival and others to visit mediocre destinations like Cozumel and Progreso.  They are starting to build their own captive ports too like Coco Cay and Castawway Cay.

So, my reasoning is probably too circuitous when it comes to flags of convenience, and I'm willing to admit if my position seems wrong.

Well, it's too bad they've cut the links to Vista's webcams.

You could grab some screenshots of her at Galveston anchorage to add to your trip report.

But, all is not lost.  She comes in every other week to replenish her stocks and take on some fuel.  Watch the Galveston Cruise Cam for when she's pierside.  You can grab still shots from their camera.

19 hours ago, john91498 said:

Why would the feds help a company that skirts US tax laws by flagging their ships in 3rd world countries?

It's not the tax laws they are skirting, it's cabotage laws they are "working around".

Jones Act.

3 hours ago, shipbound2 said:

It has been reported that Carnival has 150 million in cash.

 

That's not much when you consider all of the overhead they are still carrying.

They still run diesel generators to keep their ships powered up.  They still have crew salaries.  They still have port fees to pay every time they come in to replenish fuel and other supplies (food, consumables, etc.).

I would be very curious as to what the average daily cost is to keep all of those ships in non-revenue status.

Even if they start sending some of their nonessential crew home as RCI has, they will still need bridge officers, navigation and communication, engineering and the crew support (cooks, laundry, general maintenance).

I wonder what a skeleton crew would number for a unique vessel such as a cruise ship - ChEngP?

Hands down, my favorite salt is Caribbean Sea Salt found on your handrail every morning as you step out on your cove balcony with a steaming hot cup of coffee.....

3 hours ago, dctravel said:

I think it depends. I have mostly read that crew is staying on board. I know that Holland America has frozen crew transfers for the foreseable future.

Well, I certainly hope that they are all reared back on the Lido watching a movie and griping about the popcorn.

They deserve a break.  I think that as much as a third of their salary comes from gratuities, and they ain't getting any right now.

Let them enjoy the empty passenger cabins and some of the amenities that draw regular folk like us to the cruise liners.

2 minutes ago, lnm6170 said:

We were on carnivals website looking to order liquor and cant find it . Have they  changed the way you preorder it online before cruise ?

Also was wondering if any one has any idea of there  wine package prices ?

thanks

Yes.

It is no longer known as the Bon Voyage Program.  You order through the Fun Shops page.

But if it's been awhile since you've last used the preordered liquor program, be ready for a huge surprise.  The price has gone up exponentially.

1 hour ago, webzila said:

 

For Vista it says arrived in Galveston Saturday - will anchor at sea. Let's see if that happens. So far it's docked in Galveston

 

Just got underway.

A very quiet and somber sailaway.  Very few of the crew visible on the decks.

Very surreal.

The Dream should be in later today to replenish her stocks.

Has anyone heard if they are maintaining a full crew or cancelling contracts and returning nonessential crewmembers to their homeport?

17 minutes ago, TomCruise48 said:

As you aptly pointed out, there are more ships than there are berths.  Take Long Beach for example, one berth for 3 ships.  I expect that the ships will rotate in and out to re-provision. 

Galveston has two berths that they share between five ships (Two RCI and Three Carnival).

What's even more challenging is that when there are no cruise ships using those berths, they are routinely filled with commercial vessels waiting loadouts or receiving supplies and being inspected.

The ports are going to be very crowded here shortly!

Hopefully the crew will be allowed to spread out and make use of those guest staterooms while they're not being used by paying passengers.  That would be something a compassionate employer would consider doing.

6 hours ago, HillBilly Bob said:

Really feeling bad for the out of work staff....since they are contract workers they won't be able to draw any unemployment.   Let's hope CCL houses and feeds them on hiatus since none of them can afford to fly home and then return to the ship.   ....if they would be allowed to fly home.  

 

That is an interesting question I posted on Disqus (Galveston Cruise Cam board).  Someone there seems to think that they are keeping the ships fully staffed during the hiatus.  Would they really do that?

I am not familiar with cruise line contracts, but I am sure that they have a Force Majeure clause to protect them.  But, I also have heard that their contracts include transportation to and from the "home" port of the contracted worker.

It may just be impossible to actually fly many of the crew to their "home" port, as airlines are likely not going to resume flights to many Asian destinations any time soon.

It's going to be insane keeping the ships fueled while at anchor, or pierside if they are lucky enough to get a berth somewhere (like the Vista, in Galveston right now).  What about replenishing water and other foodstuffs?  Don't they have to be in deeper water than anchorage depth to run the distillation plants?

Too bad "Doctor" Hunter S. Thompson is no longer around.

He'd sign thousands of letters.  Everyone could get one.

Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas was one very strange book.

2 minutes ago, Bowman1 said:

I prefer strong black coffee, so I bring my own craft roast and a 32 oz French press - 5 minutes in lido and I have my own fresh brew (I will be sailing Panorama on Mar 14 for anyone who wants to share a cup😀)

 

I find the Lido and MDR coffee to be fine, just not very strong 

 

 

 

 

Just back from a week-long trip on the Vista (well, two weeks ago).

I found the Lido coffee to be tolerable, not great.  The deaf was muddy tasting though.

The coffee in the MDR was better, but not great.

If you have a pour-over rig, and room to tote a bag of Seattle's Best Post Alley you will be fine.