sanger727

The rest of the tour proceeded as scheduled. We visited the war remnants museum and Cu Chi tunnels in Ho Chi Minh. We then flew to Hanoi where we had a city tour and then joined a Ha Long Bay ship for a 2 day trip. We flew home and it was uneventful. Again, this was a wonderful trip and I don't want to take away from that. But Avalon's lack of planning on 1. what to do if people display signs of illness 2. when and how to covid test 3. what to do if people test positive 4. how to arrange quarantine rules and who determines them 5. what to do if people test negative after all that was inexcusable. It was ridiculous to me that 4 people who apparently "had covid" were told to wander around town because the hotel wouldn't take them. And then there was no actual plan on where we would stay had our tests come back positive. Had policies and procedures been laid out, we still may have no liked the answer. But the stress of not knowing made the whole situation worse.

The next day was more of the same, they would bring any food or drinks we ordered to us. I was covid tested in the morning and tested positive again. I found out later that two of the "positive" guests had tested negative the second day. However, they were not released from quarantine. We were advised that when we arrived in Phnom Phen that evening a nurse would come onboard and administer PCR tests. The results would be available the next morning. We asked what would happen if they were positive and negative, and just got more of, we will call Avalon and they will decide. I had had an opportunity to speak to the other positive guests and we felt strongly that since our antigen tests had not been administered by medical personnel, the second test for two of the people were negative, and we had not received PCR tests that we weren't really sure we had COVID. I was also upset that no on had attempted to determine the length of quarantine if were were positive. No one had asked about symptom start date and no one had discussed when the "quarantine" would end. We still had more than a week of trip left, and under the US CDC's 5 days, we should have been released from quarantine the following day. We got our PCR tests in the evening and discussed what would happen the following day. The rest of the group would leave by bus and take a morning tour. We would leave separately and be taken into Ho Chi Minh city. We asked about going to the hotel and were told that the hotel wouldn't let us check in if our tests were positive. Also, if our tests were positive, they may require the entire group to get tested before checking in. I felt very uneasy the next morning leaving the boat, to essentially be turned loose in Ho Chi Minh city, with potentially nowhere to go. But that's what we did. We were dropped off near the hotel and given directions to a nearby market. We were on our own until 10:15 when we would meet our guide back at a cafe to get the results. So, with no other options, we walked around Ho Chi Minh city until the agreed upon time. We all received our results by e-mail and they were all negative. When we met with our guide he said that he would take the results to the hotel so that we could check in. We asked if we could rejoin the tour at that point, and he said he had to call Avalon and they would decide. It was really unreasonable at that point that Avalon hadn't predetermined that. There were only two possibilities, all of us would test negative, or not. There's no reason they couldn't have decided ahead of time. Our group had a morning tour only and free time in the afternoon. Our cruise director did work it out with the local guide that he would return in the afternoon and give us the group tour from the morning. So at this point they did do their best to make things up. Ultimately, Avalon did allow us to re-join the tour like nothing had happened.

I took the covid test. My friend/roommate had also developed symptoms at this point so she tested as well. As did most of the ship. We all lined up (no masks), took our tests, and then went out to the sundeck for drinks. Around an hour later, people started asking about the test results. They refused to answer, just said that if you tested positive they would let you know. Shortly after this they pulled me to the side. I had tested positive. They told me to go to my room and asked if I need anything. This was shortly before lunch so I asked if they could bring me lunch and they said sure. Some time later a crew member came back to my room to administer another test. I didn't know this at the time, but was due to the fact that my roommate was also sick but tested negative. They took the test and asked if I needed anything, I just asked for lunch again. Around half an hour later, the cruise director called me to tell me my second test was again positive. At this point I had had no contact with anyone except the ships crew. I had no idea that my roommate was negative and had been offered the chance to change rooms so she could stay with the rest of the group. And I had no idea if anyone else had tested positive. The wifi didn't work in the guest rooms, so short of someone calling me I was on my own. I again asked for lunch since they still had no brought anything. Shortly after this they did bring me a plate for lunch. I also asked for them to have my roommate call me. I was filled in one what exactly was happening at this point. 4 people had tested positive. The rest negative. A wife and husband, a wife (but he husband tested negative), and me (with my roommate testing negative). We asked what would happen next and they said we would take another rapid antigen test the next day. The husband had opted to be quarantined in his room with his wife. My roommate had been given the option to change rooms and not be quarantined. We complained about the lack of wifi and ability to communicate. So one thing they did do right, was move the wifi routers so that we could get wifi in our rooms. On the ship, dinners were served at 7. I received a phone call around 6:30 asking for my dinner order. At 8, I still had not received anything. I texted my roommate and asked her to check on when we would be served. The waitor told her that they would serve all of the guests in the dining room (all courses) before they served the "positive" guests. She put up a sufficient arguement to that which led to them finally brining our food to us.

The next day we entered Vietnam. This was a painless process. Our cruise director had collected everyone's passports at the beginning of the cruise and he handled all of the business with immigrations. When we arrived at our first port, we took a walk through the town to visit a local market. This was probably the least interesting stop in my opinion. I think they scheduled this as a quick stop because the length of time it takes to get through immigrations and customs can be unpredictable. In the afternoon we took a boat ride to a town and went to a temple. It interesting to see the houses on the ride, fishermen, and just how people live. The temple was much different than anything we had seen in Cambodia or Thailand. Vientamese people aren't religious, and the temple looked a little bit like a Las Vegas slot machine. Just very different. The next day we went to another small town and visited a gentleman that had fought for Viet Cong in the war. And then we went to a shop where they wove cotton. When we returned to the boat our cruise director told us that he had noticed that many people were sick and upon consultation with Avalon, had purchased at home test kits and requested that anyone with symptoms volunteer to get tested. This is when things started to really fall sideways. It became very apparent throughout the trip, that Avalon had no actual plans on how to handle a virus on a group trip/cruise. Up until this point nothing had been said, no masks were worn, and no policies had been stated. One woman asked "if someone tests positive, what will happen" and his answer was essentially "we will call Avalon and figure out what to do". This became his line throughout the rest of the trip. There were no plans, no policies, no forethinking into what should be done. Just "we will call Avalon and they will figure out what to do".

The next day, in the morning we visited another village via oxcart ride. We returned to the ship for lunch and sailed to phnom Phen. In the afternoon we visited the Genoside Museum and the killings fields. I personally did not know any of this history (I was born in the 80s), and we all found this very sad and impactful. I'm sure you can guess the next part of the story. In the evening and overnight I came down with a sore throat and cough. The next day we took a tour of Phnom Phen by cyclo in the morning. I wore a mask to prevent spreading anything. On the way back to the ship, our cruise director said that a couple people had requested to stop at a pharmacy, so if anyone would like to stop we could leave early and stop on the way back. I opted to do that. Our local guide went with us and assisted with working with the pharmacists to get everyone what they needed. 7-8 people went and it was quickly apparent that EVERYONE was ordering cough syrup. At that point I stopped wearing my mask, whatever this was had spread too far. We all returned to the ship and had a free afternoon. This was our last day with our Cambodian guide. He got off in Phnom Phen and we picked up our new Vietnamese guide.

After Siem Reap we flew to Phnom Phen to board the ship. 11 more people chose to do the cruise only so we were a total of 29 on the ship. I think they felt slightly out of the loop since we had all spent a few days together and had gotten to know the cruise director and local guide already. The ship was beautiful, but we had mixed feelings about our rooms. We had the bed split into twins and that really took up any extra floor space that we might have otherwise had. There were no balconies, just a sliding glass door to open the room up to the outside. However, it was extremely humid, so if you opened the door up all of the surfaces inside the room, quickly got wet. So we didn't find this as useful as it could have been. The bathroom was very nice sized. But overall there was little storage and closet space. The first night of the cruise, one of the single passengers sat with us at dinner. She mentioned that she had lost her voice that day but wasn't sick. We didn't think anything of it. That night we set off up the Mekong. The next day we visited a temple up on a hillside. There was an option to walk up to it or take a bus. I have to give our cruise director props. He did a great job with transportation. There were many times that unusually transportation was in the itinerary (oxcart, cyclo), but he always explained the day before what it was an offered to arrange a car or tuktuk for anyone that was uncomfortable. We returned to the ship for lunch and in the afternoon visited a local village. Note: on the bus ride back from the local village, the single who sat with us at dinner the night before had a prolonged coughing fit. We returned to the ship for dinner and sailed to another location.

Hi all, We traveled on an Avalong Mekong River Cruise with Siem Reap and Ha Long Bay extensions on 11/28. It was a wonderful trip for the most part, however, there were a few days that really bad. We have been home for a little over a week, but I wanted some time to digest everything that happened before posting. We found Avalon difficult to work with pre-cruise; and then we felt they really dropped the ball during the cruise. This was our first, and will certainly be our last Avalon cruise. However, there was so much good about it, I really wanted to share that. I am going to include the timeline of the illness that spread amongst the ship, not to focus on it, but just to show how little planning Avalon has done for a post covid world. To start off, the trip was fantastic. I was traveling with a friend. We spent a week in Thailand on our own before the trip and went to Bangkok and Phuket. We traveled into Siem Reap and met up with two more of her friends who booked the river cruise, so there were a total of 4 of us. Siem Reap was beautiful and modern. Easy to navigate and felt very safe. When we started the trip there were 18 of us. We were met by our cruise director when we checked into the hotel and he stayed with us for the Siem Reap days and then the river cruise. Upon check in he checked everyone's covid vaccination records (vaccination and boosters were mandatory) and visas. One couple told us later in the trip that they had gotten the wrote visa and the cruise director was able to assist them in getting the correct visa in time. We also had a local guide that was with us the entire time we were in Cambodia. I can't say enough good things about the local guide. He was incredibly fluent, entertaining, knowledgeable, and had a great sense of logistics. We spent a day at Angkor wat and then another day seeing two other temples. These were excellent tours. The second day rain broke out, and our cruise director was prepared with umbrellas for everyone on standby and our tuktuks re-appeared with rain flaps so that we had a comfortable ride back into town. Note: On the second day of our tour, one participant came down with a mask in the morning saying that he had a runny nose and didn't want to get anyone sick. His wife missed a day of two of the trip also and he said she was under the weather. His mask disappeared at some point during the day and never re-appeared on the trip.

Ok. So long story short. We finally got a pcr test from a nurse in Saigon. No one had covid. No one has covid. The ship’s crew administered rapid tests were wrong. We have rejoined the tour but lost 3 days of our vacation and endured a lot of stress for no reason.

well, like most things in life, it’s never that simple. When you are in a rural village an hour from the ship and someone starts coughing; there is no option to get off. the pandemic is nearly 3 years old so not having any plan is inexcusable. The rules that have been enforced are completely arbitrary. So, for example, a negative husband chose to stay in his room with his positive wife. He was advised that while he was staying in her room he couldn’t join group activities; but if he ever changed his mind and went to a different room; he could join the group activities. Which flies in the face of everything we know about incubation periods and contact tracing. our cruise director has not communicated anything and every few hours has new and contradictory information. For example, we asked what Vietnam’s policy was on quarantining. First he said it wasn’t required. Then he said we would be required to quarantine for 7 days following a positive test. Then he said we would be required to quarantine until we tested negative. This one was especially problematic since two of the positives had already tested negative but we’re still required to stay in their rooms. We finally called the US embassy to get an answer - which was that Vietnam doesn’t require quarantining. right this minute we are disembarking the ship. We were given pcr tests last night but don’t have the results yet. We are being taken to central Saigon to walk around until the results are back because the hotel won’t take us before then. Still have not been given any indication on what might happen if they are positive except that the hotel may refuse to let us stay. This is a scary and precarious situation and there’s a whole lot Avalon could be doing differently behind the scenes. there has not been one point of this where we asked ‘what happens if the test is positive’ or ‘what happens if the test is negative’ where we received an answer. It has been, take the test and then we will see.

Ok. So I said that I would check in after my cruise. And while it’s not quite over yet, it’s basically over. So, as far as my original questions. Daily excursions started between 8-9, work out room is small and basic, biggest issue is that it’s closed until 7 which is breakfast time so I never used it. And the wifi is only in the lounge and sundeck and is terrible. so, to our story. We are on Avalon Saigon with the siem reap and Hanoi extensions that started on 11/28. Our trip started in siem reap where there were 18 people visiting Angkor wat. After 2 days we joined the boat with 11 more people. On the first night of the cruise, a single passenger sat with us. She said she was losing her voice but had taken a covid test and wasn’t sick. The next day on the shore excursion she coughed uncontrollably on the bus ride. Starting from there a cough and misc cold symptoms clearly spread through the cruise, including to me. On the 5th day of the cruise we were all requested to take covid tests. I was positive along with 3 other passengers. My roommate was negative and was moved to a different room. The negative people have never re-tested. The positive people have been tested twice a day with antigen tests. Tonight we arrive in Ho chi minh where medical professionals will test all of the positive people with PCR. It sounds as though that is the determining factor on whether we continue with our post cruise tour. This is really frustrating considering 1. Everyone was together for the first several days of trip and therefore exposed 2. I’ve been sick for 5 days and am now better, by US standards I should be released from quarantine without additional testing. so at this point it is all wait and see. It’s disappointing that Avalon clearly didn’t have a plan for this. All along the way the response from the cruise director has been to take each test and then he would call the head office and find out what to do.

Thank you for the links!

8 hours of more road time is better for the family than 8 hours of more vacation time?

There are some US based mass market lines that are offering "inclusive" pricing where tips are included. There's no reason to re-negotiate the contracts - does it really matter to the employee whether you pay gratuities at the end, pre-pay your gratuities, or select a cruise rate that includes those gratuities. The cruise line can still call that gratuity pay as opposed to a salary increase. So, there are fairly simple ways to achieve the same result.

We are leaving on Friday for our first Avalon cruise! We are on Avalon Saigon. I have a handful of questions that I can't found anything on Avalon's site to answer: 1. There's an exercise room. What should I expect with that? A room with some space and freeweights or actual equipment? 2. How is the wifi on board? Trying to determine if we are better off using our cell phone coverage. 3. What time to excursions and tours typically start? Thank you!

I've seen this pop up on occasion before. Americans are tippers and while many say they would prefer no tipping, they "feel bad" without it. I've never seen this model catch on or stick around very long.

Agreed, I think that especially with cruise only travelers, there's a lot of naivete in how things work outside of the US. AFAIK, most travel insurance plans require you to pay upfront and reimburse you for the cost later. So, traveling without an emergency fund or CC is just a bad idea of a number of reasons. I can guarantee you that when your airline cancels your flight and you have to re-book with another airline (been there done that), no one is going to be asking for your travel insurance number and putting you on that flight for free. And when it comes to medical expenses abroad, the most important thing is whether or not the hospital is even willing to bill insurance. We have plenty of medical providers in the US that won't bill insurance anymore and make you pay upfront and get reimbursed later. When you find yourself with no choices, you need the flexibility to pay for things upfront.

I agree with the other posters. Yes, unlikely to have drops on this specific itinerary if the number of sailings are limited. Could it happen, sure. But if you are looking at July it's probably the height of the season and the most likely to sell well, therefore the least likely to have price drops. Have you looked at going towards the beginning or end of the season? Those typically have better rates.

outside of really specialty lines or exotic cruises, it’s not. But there are country specific requirements for insurance; which I believe is why the OP listed their posts instead if the cruise line. For example the Galapagos requires proof of coverage for entry. We also recently got a visa to Vietnam and they also required proof of coverage. I’m unaware of any caribbean island with this requirement.

This is a question without an easy answer. Would I prefer the rate be all inclusive? Yes. However, especially for American based sailings, many Americans will still tip. At least when the gratuities are separated out you can see "I'm paying the gratuity so anything above and beyond is just extra". Once the gratuities are lumped in the cruise fare, I think you will see more Americans looking for advise on tipping and will go back to the old system of tips being dolled out at the end of every cruise - just with the cruise price being an extra $200 higher.

If you still take your meals in the dining room you'll have wait staff daily. Not sure how you can "take care of yourself" in regards to meals. I supposed you may keep your room tidy but unless you invest in cleaning supplies, you would still need vacuuming and wiping down done by the cruise. And most importantly, you would be occupying a cabin that could otherwise be filled by a vacationer. So, if you room steward has 20 cabins assigned to them, if you occupy one permanently and pay reduced tips; Now they only have the opportunity to make money off of 19 cabins. No, I think full tipping would still be expected.

I think that most people in the US book their own flights. We always do. And yes, we have done long haul flights for cruises. I agree with @alysonofagun. I wouldn't arrive late on the 28th for departure on the 29th. It's unlikely that you won't make it but between customs and jet lag, you certainly won't have any time for sight seeing. Why not arrive on the 27th and have zero worries if you flight comes in late?

This is a tad bit dramatic. You can still request the same waitstaff every night; worst case you may have a short wait. Also, if the Maitre'd accommodates your allergy for breakfast and lunch, I'm not sure why it would be unsafe for dinner.... I think that this is a great change. We always choose anytime dining. When we have sailed on Norwegian which is all anytime dining vs Celebrity when it is some anytime dining; there's a noticeable difference. When the whole ship is anytime dining there are much fewer lines and less waiting. They have the whole ship to give to anytime dining instead of select areas of dining room. And there are no wasted tables reserved for early/late diners who are dining elsewhere on the ship.

Well, that's quite sexist (on the part of Seabourn, not you).

yes, I was speaking more for living on a cruise ship that does 1-2 week cruises, not an ATW. an ATW cruise is a completely different experience. If we ever take an ATW cruise that would be a one off trip of a lifetime, not a new living situation. But, even 9 months on a cruise ship would take away the "special" of it for me. I've traveled up to 4 weeks at a time, and I'm definitely ready to get back to a normal living style by then. I'm a routine person. Vacations break the routine and are a nice escape. But I can't eat and live like that for months on end.

Yes. I've been to Japan. That's what I said in my post...