Passenger Space Ratio - is it important?

[Bella cruiser]

With all the talk about overcrowding cruise ships and increasing berths of ships coming to Australia/New Zealand I have been looking at the passenger space ratios for some of our regulars and Carnival Spirit when she arrives. It makes interesting reading. These ratios are meant to be indicative of the internal space per passenger, hence.... the lower the number the more crowded. I have expressed them for all berths occupied so this is worst case scenario for all ships.

 

Passenger Space Ratios (from best to worst)

 

1. Pacific Pearl.....................37.3

2. Pacific Jewel....................35.0

3. Pacific Dawn....................34.85

4. Rhapsody of the Seas........32.23

5. Carnival Spirit...................32.05

6. Pacific Sun.......................26.8

Pacific Pearl is a clear winner and also she appears to have the most open deck space (which is not included in the GRT calculation).:)

[sludger]

I know that you probably can't say which site these figures came from as mentioning another site is akin to saying "Jehova" in the Python film "The Life of Brian" I did it a week ago and the whole thread disappeared.

 

I wonder how these figures are obtained, do they actually measure all the public areas?

 

I have seen this passenger space ratio mentioned before and they simply divided the tonnage by the max pax.

Mind you I always thought that was a reasonably silly way of working it out as most of the newer ships are made of lighter materials.

 

Paul

[Cuizer2]

I know that you probably can't say which site these figures came from as mentioning another site is akin to saying "Jehova" in the Python film "The Life of Brian" I did it a week ago and the whole thread disappeared.

 

I wonder how these figures are obtained, do they actually measure all the public areas?

 

I have seen this passenger space ratio mentioned before and they simply divided the tonnage by the max pax.

Mind you I always thought that was a reasonably silly way of working it out as most of the newer ships are made of lighter materials.

 

Paul

 

When referring to ship, the tonnage is not a weight rating, it is a space rating. If you want to know how much a ship weighs, then you have to ask how much water it displaces.

 

A ton is one hundred cubic feet (for example a box that is 5x4x5). So diving the tonnage by the number of passengers provides an interior space rating known as the passenger space ratio.

 

Why interior? Because only the interior space available to the passengers is counted. This of course includes the cabins. So on a ship such as the Carnival Spirit which is about 86,000 tons, the cabins take up about 16,000 tons, leaving about 70,000 tons as truly public space.

 

Here is a discussion of the term tonnage ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_tonnage

 

I would estimate the actual weight of the ship is closer to about 43,000 tons.

[sludger]

When referring to ship, the tonnage is not a weight rating, it is a space rating. If you want to know how much a ship weighs, then you have to ask how much water it displaces.

 

A ton is one hundred cubic feet (for example a box that is 5x4x5). So diving the tonnage by the number of passengers provides an interior space rating known as the passenger space ratio.

 

Why interior? Because only the interior space available to the passengers is counted. This of course includes the cabins. So on a ship such as the Carnival Spirit which is about 86,000 tons, the cabins take up about 16,000 tons, leaving about 70,000 tons as truly public space.

 

Thanks for the info, interestingly enough that gives the Pacific sun a ratio of 16 no wonder it seems so crowded.

 

Paul

[sludger]

Surely it can't be right it Cuizer2, that would give the:

Pearl a score of 26

Dawn a score of 27

The U.S. Spirit 33

The Aussie Spirit 26

 

Am I getting it right?

 

Paul

[Cuizer2]

Surely it can't be right it Cuizer2, that would give the:

Pearl a score of 26

Dawn a score of 27

The U.S. Spirit 33

The Aussie Spirit 26

 

Am I getting it right?

 

Paul

 

It depends on what passenger figure you are using. Since you are not showing your work I don't know what figures you are using. So lets try this ...

 

The Pacific Dawn is 70,285 GT (gross tons). At two per cabin it carries 1596 passengers. It has a maximum capacity of 2020 passengers. So its space ratio is 70,285 ÷ 1596 = 44. With all beds full its space ratio is 70,285 ÷ 2002 = 34.8

 

The Carnival Spirit is 85,920 GT. At two per cabin it carries 2124 passengers. Maximum capacity is 2680. Thus the space ratio is 85,920 ÷ 2124 = 40.45. With all beds full the space ratio is 85,920 ÷ 2680 = 32.

[sludger]

It depends on what passenger figure you are using. Since you are not showing your work I don't know what figures you are using. So lets try this ...

 

The Pacific Dawn is 70,285 GT (gross tons). At two per cabin it carries 1596 passengers. It has a maximum capacity of 2020 passengers. So its space ratio is 70,285 ÷ 1596 = 44. With all beds full its space ratio is 70,285 ÷ 2002 = 34.8

 

The Carnival Spirit is 85,920 GT. At two per cabin it carries 2124 passengers. Maximum capacity is 2680. Thus the space ratio is 85,920 ÷ 2124 = 40.45. With all beds full the space ratio is 85,920 ÷ 2680 = 32.

 

I thought we were taking 16000 0ff for the cabins.

 

Paul

[sludger]

Cuizer2 my head hurts so I am going to bed, I was up watching the EPL on the telly.

The game was boring so I was glad of the interaction on my laptop, normally I like a bit of maths but I am tired (it might also be the vino callapso).

 

I will try and follow your workings out though as I always wondered how they worked it out.

 

Does 32 mean you've got 3200 square foot to play in?

 

Thanks, Paul

[Cuizer2]

I thought we were taking 16000 0ff for the cabins.

 

Paul

 

The passenger space ratio includes the inside space available to passengers. This includes the cabins. Thus you have to include that space when you do the math.

 

However, in most cases, all but one of those cabins are off limits to each individual passenger. Thus it is important to understand that not all the interior space is accessible to every passenger.

 

Nonetheless, the space taken up by the cabins is included when computing the passenger space ratio.

 

Next, the amount of space taken up by the cabin varies by ship. In the case of the Carnival Spirit there are 1062 cabins. A standard cabin is 185 square feet. Allowing for an eight foot ceiling that means each cabin takes up 1480 cubic feet or 14.8 tons. 14.8 x 1062 = 15,717.6. Since the suites are bigger than 185 sq. ft. I just rounded up to 16,000 tons. HOWEVER, this figure only applies to the Carnival Spirit class of ships (a total of four ships). The amount of room taken up by the cabins will be different for other ships.

 

Also, it is not clear if the balconies are included in the interior space or not. Same with the space under the sliding dome. This is why the GT for the Carnival Spirit varies from 83,000 GT to 88,000 GT. It depends on what "interior" spaces are being included in the calculations. Is a space that is sometimes interior and sometimes exterior "interior" or not? Is a space that has a floor, a ceiling and three walls "interior" or exterior? When putting numbers in a brochure you can bet Carnival is counting all the questionable space. When reporting to a taxing authority you can be the Carnival is not counting any of the questionable space.

 

Nonetheless, a different ship, such as the Carnival Valor which has 1,487 cabins will have more interior room taken up by the cabin. I would estimate the cabins on the Carnival Valor take up more than 22,000 GT of the Valor's 110,239 GT.

[Cuizer2]

Cuizer2 my head hurts so I am going to bed, I was up watching the EPL on the telly.

The game was boring so I was glad of the interaction on my laptop, normally I like a bit of maths but I am tired (it might also be the vino callapso).

 

I will try and follow your workings out though as I always wondered how they worked it out.

 

Does 32 mean you've got 3200 square foot to play in?

 

Thanks, Paul

 

No, a space ratio of 32 means you have 3200 CUBIC feet. If the ceiling is 8 feet high then you would have 400 square feet per person. If the ceiling is 10 feet high, then you would have 320 sq. ft. per person.

[Kiwi Kruzer]

Hi Bella,

Space Ratio is a guide only, and just gives an indication of how "crowded" you may find the ship.

I think a lot more depends on the design and layout and how space is efficiently used.

eg . Pacific Pearl may have a bigger space ratio, but reports coming in tell of the buffet always being crowded and more like the foodhall at a mall. Likewise Dawn and Sun Princess have dreadful layouts for their buffets , yet Diamond Princess flows with ease at all times.

 

Nautical Nomenclature: How Space Ratio Affects Your Cruise

http://www.avidcruiser.com/2009/08/12/nautical-nomenclature-how-space-ratio-affects-your-cruise/

[sludger]

No, a space ratio of 32 means you have 3200 CUBIC feet. If the ceiling is 8 feet high then you would have 400 square feet per person. If the ceiling is 10 feet high, then you would have 320 sq. ft. per person.

 

Mate, you are a genius!

I have always wondered as I said previously thanks very much.

 

So with 2124 pax the Spirit score is 41

and with 2680 pax the Spirit score is 32 Thats 78% of the above, pretty crowded by comparison isn't it?

 

Thanks

 

Paul

[sludger]

Pacific Pearl.....................35

Pacific Jewel....................36

Pacific Dawn....................35

Rhapsody of the Seas........39

Carnival Spirit......Aussie.....32

Carnival Spirit......U.S.........41

Pacific Sun.......................25

Radiance of the Seas..........43

Sun Princess......................39

 

I have used the formula mentioned and rounded these figures up to the nearest whole number.

 

Anyone who has been on the Sun will not be surprised it has the worst figure.

 

I will leave you to work out the rest

It would seem if you want a reasonable amount of space, cruise with Royal Caribbean, Princess or the U.S. Spirit before it comes here.

 

Paul

[robinph]

All these calculations are very interesting, but I think the best calculation is how comfortable you have felt on a ship, considering Pacific Jewel came in second I find this strange as I felt it was the most crowded, badly set out ship that I have been on, all public areas continually crowded and buffet was a shocker, yet Kiwi Kruzer noted that Sun and Dawn Princess buffet's were poorly designed yet we have been on 4 cruises on these ships and the buffet's have flowed beautifully, obviously it is down to your own personal tastes and experiences and how confortable you have felt on a ship, but the figures are interesting all the same. Robin:).

[sludger]

You can't beat a bit of maths on a sunday morning.

 

Funnily enough, I have heard the comments re the buffet on the Jewel.

When we were on it I didn't find it anymore crowded than others we have been on, but we only used it for breakfast and lunch.

 

I didn't like the main bar on the Jewel though, it was always crowded and resembled a really bad RSL club for me.

 

Paul

[Kiwi Kruzer]

All these calculations are very interesting, but I think the best calculation is how comfortable you have felt on a ship, considering Pacific Jewel came in second I find this strange as I felt it was the most crowded, badly set out ship that I have been on, all public areas continually crowded and buffet was a shocker, yet Kiwi Kruzer noted that Sun and Dawn Princess buffet's were poorly designed yet we have been on 4 cruises on these ships and the buffet's have flowed beautifully, obviously it is down to your own personal tastes and experiences and how confortable you have felt on a ship, but the figures are interesting all the same. Robin:).

 

Hi Robin,

I agree its all down to how you personally feel on a ship.

 

What I was meaning with Sun and Dawn Princess , is that to enter or leave the seating area, you have to pass through the food serving area and it tends to get congested. Also if you want to take the food to the outdoor area you have to turn around and move back out through the crowd. There is a passageway on one side, but no one ever seems to see it, let alone find it.

 

[sludger]

The tonnage figures for the Jewel must also include that massive waste of space called the Spa.

 

In the location that it is in it would make a superb entertainment area if they changed it.

It would also give people somewhere to sit when the ship is full at peak time sailings.

 

Paul

[robinph]

The tonnage figures for the Jewel must also include that massive waste of space called the Spa.

 

In the location that it is in it would make a superb entertainment area if they changed it.

It would also give people somewhere to sit when the ship is full at peak time sailings.

 

Paul

 

My thoughts exactly!:)

[robinph]

Hi Robin,

I agree its all down to how you personally feel on a ship.

 

What I was meaning with Sun and Dawn Princess , is that to enter or leave the seating area, you have to pass through the food serving area and it tends to get congested. Also if you want to take the food to the outdoor area you have to turn around and move back out through the crowd. There is a passageway on one side, but no one ever seems to see it, let alone find it.

 

 

They never seem to be able to read the 'No Entry' sign at the far end of the bufet's either!:D

[Bella cruiser]

Pacific Pearl.....................35

Pacific Jewel....................36

Pacific Dawn....................35

Rhapsody of the Seas........39

Carnival Spirit......Aussie.....32

Carnival Spirit......U.S.........41

Pacific Sun.......................25

Radiance of the Seas..........43

Sun Princess......................39

 

I have used the formula mentioned and rounded these figures up to the nearest whole number.

 

Anyone who has been on the Sun will not be surprised it has the worst figure.

 

I will leave you to work out the rest

It would seem if you want a reasonable amount of space, cruise with Royal Caribbean, Princess or the U.S. Spirit before it comes here.

 

Paul

 

Sludger, why have you used this figure for ROS:confused:

 

Obviously you have derived this figure from doing the calculation for only lower berths (2000 pax), that would give you the calc of 39 that you got but if you use all berths (2435 pax) you get 32.32.

 

Probably best that you use the same calc method for all otherwise some one might think you are trying to skew the figures to make ROS look better and some may even think you have a vested interest.:rolleyes::):D:p

[Kiwi Kruzer]

It would seem Space Ratios can be bent to suit whatever you want.

They are not exact, but just an estimated guide.

If you visit Krooz Cams...

http://www.kroooz-cams.com/

they give Ships Facts with each cam

 

Here is what they quote for ships that have cams..

 

Originally Posted by sludger

Pacific Pearl.....................35 Space Ratio: 40

Pacific Jewel....................36 Space Ratio: 39

Pacific Dawn....................35 Space Ratio: 44

Rhapsody of the Seas........39

Carnival Spirit......Aussie.....32

Carnival Spirit......U.S.........41

Pacific Sun.......................25 Space Ratio: 38

Radiance of the Seas..........43

Sun Princess......................39 Space Ratio: 40

[sludger]

Sludger, why have you used this figure for ROS:confused:

 

Obviously you have derived this figure from doing the calculation for only lower berths (2000 pax), that would give you the calc of 39 that you got but if you use all berths (2435 pax) you get 32.32.

 

Probably best that you use the same calc method for all otherwise some one might think you are trying to skew the figures to make ROS look better and some may even think you have a vested interest.:rolleyes::):D:p

 

Don't understand the question really but I just used the figures quoted here:

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/reviews/review.cfm?ShipID=79

 

Of course I have a vested interest I like to go on holiday.

It's pretty tough trying to earn money in the commercial aircon industry and I like to spend my hard earned wisely, that's why I am taking my next 2 christmas cruises in the caribbean with P&O U.K. and NCL respectively.

 

I doubt I will return to RC for a long time so why would I skew the figures, a pretty sad comment I would say.

 

I also like to holiday in my caravan in our great state of W.A.

So unless something drastic happens like P&O offering cruises from Fremantle that dont involve sailing on a 30 year old ship without balcony cabins and doesn't smell of sewage most of the time I don't suppose I will be cruising these waters for a while.

 

But you never know I might try the Spirit if it's outside peak season.

 

Paul

[Sandielle]

Wong information there. P&O doesn't have any 30 year old ships.

 

You can prove anything with statistics, anyway.

 

I love the quote that statistics are hard to swallow and impossible to digest. The only one I can ever remember is that if all the people who go to sleep in church were laid end to end they would be a lot more comfortable.

[sludger]

It would seem Space Ratios can be bent to suit whatever you want.

They are not exact, but just an estimated guide.

If you visit Krooz Cams...

http://www.kroooz-cams.com/

they give Ships Facts with each cam

 

Here is what they quote for ships that have cams..

 

Thanks David

 

The only problem with the figures shown is the P&O Australia ships figures are pre Aussiefication.

The Pacific Sun shows it's original passenger maximum which was 1200 pax now after the Aussiefication 1900 pax

The Pacific Jewel is shown as 1708 pax now it's approx 2000

 

Paul

[rugbypopsie]

I will leave the maths to all you brainiacs but space is an issue for me. Now that I have moved onto longer cruisers I pay attention to the public areas...i.e. on a long cruise in a cold climate I felt the Dawn Princess was very crowded and difficult to even find somewhere to sit. Of course on a shorter cruise in warm weather, there would have been younger passengers and more people using the pool areas so it would have felt entirely different.

 

It is annoying that the extra berths crammed into some of our ships have upset the balance.