Concordia News: Please Post Here

[sidari]

CT ... A writer of any worth would have made comment on the fact that he was showing off to a number of guests on the bridge but instead chose to focus on one person! a poor writer.

 

Once it was realised that the sh*t was about to hit the fan they at least tried to do something about, they could have course have hit Le Scole head on!

 

Remember with Hindsight it is easy to criticise actions and people especially when you were not there to see it for yourself!

[SomeBeach]

I've just finished reading "Abandoned Ship" by Benji Smith, who along with his wife Emily Lau, survived the shipwreck. His book describes their experience from when they first boarded the ship in Barcelona, 4 days before the accident.

The first thing that jumps out is that there never was any Muster Drill. One was announced for their first evening but it was more of a sales pitch for various ship excursions and deals on board. No drill occured, not the next day, not at all.

For anyone interested in Concordia from a survivors point, it is rather interesting to read.

[cruiserfanfromct]

Since the captain states he had "no regrets" I will list the regrets I have for the 4200+ others:

 

We regret you didn't call in sick on the night of the January 13, 2012.

 

We regret you weren't placed on "desk duty" after the Aida Blue and Marseilles incidents.

 

We regret that as our captain and highest commanding officer of the largest cruise ship in the Mediterranean, you made the foolish decision to surreptitiously deviate from the scheduled route.

 

We regret you put our lives and ship in jeopardy by recklessly speeding towards a rocky outcrop in the company of unauthorized individuals distracting you on the bridge while you manually navigated without your eye glasses and talked on your cell phone.

 

We regret the words you shouted upon collision "Madonna, what have I done?"

We regret that you put yourself before all of us abandoning us and causing the deaths of 32 of us.

 

We regret that you have "no regrets"

[cruiserfanfromct]

CT ... A writer of any worth would have made comment on the fact that he was showing off to a number of guests on the bridge but instead chose to focus on one person! a poor writer.

 

Maybe you know something this writer doesn't -- was this captain ACDC by any chance?

Once it was realised that the sh*t was about to hit the fan they at least tried to do something about, they could have course have hit Le Scole head on!

 

Oh joy! Are you saying the passengers should have something to be grateful about? They should be glad they purchased an aft cabin?

 

Remember with Hindsight it is easy to criticise actions and people especially when you were not there to see it for yourself!

 

That's correct -- I wasn't there and neither were you. There are people on CC and media who were there -- doesn't seem to be any love lost for this captain.

.....

[cruiserfanfromct]

I've just finished reading "Abandoned Ship" by Benji Smith, who along with his wife Emily Lau, survived the shipwreck. His book describes their experience from when they first boarded the ship in Barcelona, 4 days before the accident.

 

The first thing that jumps out is that there never was any Muster Drill. One was announced for their first evening but it was more of a sales pitch for various ship excursions and deals on board. No drill occured, not the next day, not at all.

 

For anyone interested in Concordia from a survivors point, it is rather interesting to read.

 

 

 

Very interesting. This quote from Lau concerning Schettino probably sums up the feelings of all the passengers:

 

"[To the captain] I'd say, 'What a coward you are,'" Lau said. "People who were left behind -- we were helping each other to get out of there and stay alive. And he who is responsible for all of us left."

[SomeBeach]

Clive, I have read the book. Like you, I found their treatment from the Embassy, actually 2, to be horrible. Sure has changed my thoughts on what to expect from my Embassy.

 

Another big thing that jumped out was that they never had any Muster Drills tho they had been on board for 4 days. It's really pretty amazing that more people did not die.

[SomeBeach]

SB .. I think everyone agrees that there was a long time before the Abandon ship order was given, but we as onlookers do not have All of the facts before us to make a Black and White conclusion on the decision of the Bridge officers and their reason for taking the time that they did.

 

As far as i know the telephone conversation between Schettino and his boss has still not been disclosed, which i would have thought would be picked up by the voice data recorder.

 

The ships voice data recorder will have the more indepth record of what happened and who said what and at what time, one thing many experts in the maritime field agree on is that it would have been foolhardy to launch lifeboats with the ship still moving into deeper water and being blown along by the wind.

 

As a guess i would say that Schettino was hoping that the ship would beach itself near to the entrance of Giglio port and keep itself upright enough to get passengers off safely.

 

One thing that could have been done to try to help calm people would have been to tell them just how close they were to the island of Giglio.

 

Sidari, you don't remember this video?

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=874_1328954588

The video was released and also featured with translation on a Discovery show special on the wreck last year.

It was also discussed in length here.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

CT, I am so pleased you are back. You have always been no nonsense, no excuses when you post.

[SomeBeach]

Very interesting. This quote from Lau concerning Schettino probably sums up the feelings of all the passengers:

 

"[To the captain] I'd say, 'What a coward you are,'" Lau said. "People who were left behind -- we were helping each other to get out of there and stay alive. And he who is responsible for all of us left."

 

I actually asked Michelle about how she would have felt if the Captain would have been seen (or heard) to have helped anyone. Her response is in here.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1765089

 

(Not sure if you have caught up enough to have seen her thread.)

[CostaSmurfette]

SOLAS....

 

The current version, passed in 1974, does not specify that the captain should stay with his ship but states that the captain, or master, has the ultimate authority aboard his ship.

 

In addition, it says all passenger ships must have a system for emergency management, which would set out who is responsible for what during an emergency situation. This may or may not stipulate that the captain has to be the last to leave.

 

Considering the cases of Scandinavian Star where a captain left 159 on board his ship to burn to death, Oceanos where a captain left all 600 pax to save themselves from the sinking ship miles from anywhere (and who subsequently was aquitted fo all charges relating to running from his ship and went on to become a cruise ship captain again), Express Samina where a captain left 60 to drown as his ship sank and he evacuated himself....to name but a few...

 

Maybe it is time that the 1974 SOLAS regarding captains leaving ships in emergencies was rewritten, eh?

[CostaSmurfette]

And before anyone starts whining that SOLAS is currently 2010...the 2010 update is ship design, build and evecuation standard...NOT the captains and crew.

 

SOLAS 2010 is why so many older ships went to scrap cos they were not fit for use anymore, it absolutely nothing to do with ship's personnel or their actions.

[SomeBeach]

CS, don't be so insulting about people "whining." People are questioning, which we have a right to do. The only way to get changes is to question.

All many of us are saying is that no one has reported that the Captain ddi one dang thing to help anyone once he left the Bridge. Where are the people in the lifeboat that he was helping? Were they just the Bridge Staff? Was the boat full? Could he have gotten some others stuck on the low side and put them in there? Why couldn't he take that boat around to the high side to see what was going on there?

I don't expect a Captain to die saving others. However, I do hope that he has at least tried to save others from a disaster he created. If he, or even one of his Officers, had at least run down or shouted to those remaining to jump, it would have been something. Then, how could the man say he could not get back on the ship from the high side when the Deputy Mayor of Giglio was able to. Schettino didn't even try. He went straight to land and tried to blend in/hide from everyone.

[CostaSmurfette]

CS, don't be so insulting about people "whining." People are questioning, which we have a right to do. The only way to get changes is to question.

All many of us are saying is that no one has reported that the Captain ddi one dang thing to help anyone once he left the Bridge. Where are the people in the lifeboat that he was helping? Were they just the Bridge Staff? Was the boat full? Could he have gotten some others stuck on the low side and put them in there? Why couldn't he take that boat around to the high side to see what was going on there?

I don't expect a Captain to die saving others. However, I do hope that he has at least tried to save others from a disaster he created. If he, or even one of his Officers, had at least run down or shouted to those remaining to jump, it would have been something. Then, how could the man say he could not get back on the ship from the high side when the Deputy Mayor of Giglio was able to. Schettino didn't even try. He went straight to land and tried to blend in/hide from everyone.

 

You don't get it, do you?

 

Schettino was NOT OBLIGED by law to remain on board or even organise the evacuation under the current SOLAS 1974 rules.

 

He COULD have stayed on board if he so wished, infact under maritime TRADITION he was EXPECTED to stay on board...but in REALITY he did NOT break any rules by evacuating himself prior to everyone or a proportion of everyone else.

 

So essentially the legal stance of having him imprisoned for running away could be null and void by technicality...that technicality being that he was under no obligation under current SOLAS to remain on board.

 

This is how the captain of Oceanos that sank off South Africa was aquitted of all charges...read this about what captain Avranas actually told people after the sinking of his ship in shark infested waters...

 

http://www.nytimes.com/1991/08/08/news/08iht-ship.html

 

His exact words in the aftermath : "When I order abandon the ship, it doesn't matter what time I leave. Abandon is for everybody. If some people like to stay, they can stay."

 

There is EVERY chance that Schettino will get off when in court, along with the other implicated personnel, due to the totally out of date SOLAS1974 rules.

 

The only way this can change is by ratification of rule changes by the International Maritime Organisation which is currently evaluating evacuation and design changes, along with some training changes as a result of Concordia, even if ratified they will not be made law for at least 2 years. No changes have been put on the table regarding the evacuation time of captains and officers, that has not entered the equation and is unlikely to.

 

Some way back on this thread it was asked whether or not any rules or laws were broken when Schettino got off Concordia....the answer is NO. He broke with tradition and the traditional idea that a captain goes down with his or her ship but tradition does not hold up in court.

 

This is how Avranas from the Oceanos walked free from court and went on to return to passenger ship duty and why captains Express Samina, Scandinavian Star and others where the captain has gotten off before all pax/crew were accounted for have suffered little or no penalty under law.

[Tonka's Skipper]

Schettino was NOT OBLIGED by law to remain on board or even organise the current solas 1974 rules.

 

 

 

I cant speak for Solas in detail, I can tell everyone as FACT, as I have posted before, by the Maritime regulations of most countries the Master as a LEGAL and MORAL duty to stay with his vessel and do everything possible to save is vessel including supervise the safe evacuating of his passingers and crew......

 

Once he as done all he can, or everyone else is safely away or his life is in danger he can then leave his vessel.

 

This is not a tradition it is a LEGAL and MORAL part of being a MASTER and for that matter a Crew member and to suggest otherwise domostrates a lack of facts and knowledge, not to mention stupidy of a office *know it all*

 

 

AKK

[CostaSmurfette]

Schettino was NOT OBLIGED by law to remain on board or even organise the current solas 1974 rules.

 

 

 

I cant speak for Solas in detail' date=' I can tell everyone as FACT, as I have posted before, by the Maritime regulations of most countries the Master as a LEGAL and MORAL duty to stay with his vessel and do everything possible to save is vessel including supervise the safe evacuating of his passingers and crew......

 

Once he as done all he can, or everyone else is safely away or his life is in danger he can then leave his vessel.

 

This is not a tradition it is a LEGAL and MORAL part of being a MASTER and for that matter a Crew member and to suggest otherwise domostrates a lack of facts and knowledge, not to mention stupidy of a office *know it all*

 

 

AKK[/quote']

 

Tonka....if it is, as you state, a legal requirement rather than a tradition...please explain why capt Avranas of Oceanos was AQUITTED of abandoning ship before his pax when Oceanos sank?

 

He even returned to being a cruise ship captain afterwards too.

 

Likewise the captains of Scandinavian Star, Express Samina...why were they not prosecuted or had their convictions overturned after leaving pax to either burn to death or drown?

 

If it is a LEGAL requirement, surely those captains should have been tried and convicted...but since they all got away with it, despite the death of 159 people in Scandinavian Star's case....do please explain how they managed to dodge the bullet?

 

It is not obligatory for the captain/master to be the last off the ship in distress...traditional, yes...legality, no.

[Uniall]

SOLAS....

 

The current version, passed in 1974, does not specify that the captain should stay with his ship but states that the captain, or master, has the ultimate authority aboard his ship.

 

In addition, it says all passenger ships must have a system for emergency management, which would set out who is responsible for what during an emergency situation. This may or may not stipulate that the captain has to be the last to leave.

 

Considering the cases of Scandinavian Star where a captain left 159 on board his ship to burn to death, Oceanos where a captain left all 600 pax to save themselves from the sinking ship miles from anywhere (and who subsequently was aquitted fo all charges relating to running from his ship and went on to become a cruise ship captain again), Express Samina where a captain left 60 to drown as his ship sank and he evacuated himself....to name but a few...

 

Maybe it is time that the 1974 SOLAS regarding captains leaving ships in emergencies was rewritten, eh?

 

And before anyone starts whining that SOLAS is currently 2010...the 2010 update is ship design, build and evecuation standard...NOT the captains and crew.

 

SOLAS 2010 is why so many older ships went to scrap cos they were not fit for use anymore, it absolutely nothing to do with ship's personnel or their actions.

 

Smurf, you're wrong. SOLAS provides MINIMUM standards for all nations who sign the treaty. Nations can adopt more stringent standards through their civil and or criminal national laws.

 

Italy makes it a crime for a Captain to abandon ship before the crew and passengers. In the US you'd have show it to be a negligent act that caused deaths to prove guilt of manslaughter (negligent homicide)

 

Here's an article that explains it in layman's terms

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/20/us-italy-ship-maritimelaw-idUSTRE80J1R020120120

Edited January 17, 2013 by Uniall

[sidari]

"Another big thing that jumped out was that they never had any Muster Drills tho they had been on board for 4 days. It's really pretty amazing that more people did not die"

SB ... Could be it was down to many of them had cruised before? and those that had helping those who had not. Where did the guy who wrote the book board Concordia does he say ?

[sidari]

CT ... A writer of any worth would have made comment on the fact that he was showing off to a number of guests on the bridge but instead chose to focus on one person! a poor writer.

 

Maybe you know something this writer doesn't -- was this captain ACDC by any chance?

I thought you were better than bringing things down to Gutter level!

Once it was realised that the sh*t was about to hit the fan they at least tried to do something about, they could have course have hit Le Scole head on!

 

Oh joy! Are you saying the passengers should have something to be grateful about? They should be glad they purchased an aft cabin?

 

I am saying that once it was realised that they had made a terrible mistake that they at least tried to do something about it rather than stand and watch the ship power its way onto the reef.

 

 

Remember with Hindsight it is easy to criticise actions and people especially when you were not there to see it for yourself!

 

That's correct -- I wasn't there and neither were you. There are people on CC and media who were there -- doesn't seem to be any love lost for this captain

 

Yes they were there but not where decisions were either being made or not as the case may be, i am sure there will be no love lost for him by many but there will be others who were involved who have or will forgive him.

Edited January 17, 2013 by sidari

[SomeBeach]

Yes CS, I do get it! Based on what I knew of the Italian Maritime Law, which an Italian cruise ship Commodore had explained to me several months ago. He also told me that there would be more to the story, which is why I gather information.

Uniall provided the link for you.

[SomeBeach]

"Another big thing that jumped out was that they never had any Muster Drills tho they had been on board for 4 days. It's really pretty amazing that more people did not die"

 

SB ... Could be it was down to many of them had cruised before? and those that had helping those who had not. Where did the guy who wrote the book board Concordia does he say ?

 

They boarded in Barcelona. They were given red cards to turn in when the went to what was called the Muster Drill that was actually sales pitches. The guy running it, which sounded like the Cruise Director, told them the drill would be the next morning but took their card anyway. No drill the next morning.

[Tonka's Skipper]

Tonka....if it is, as you state, a legal requirement rather than a tradition...please explain why capt Avranas of Oceanos was AQUITTED of abandoning ship before his pax when Oceanos sank?

 

He even returned to being a cruise ship captain afterwards too.

 

Likewise the captains of Scandinavian Star, Express Samina...why were they not prosecuted or had their convictions overturned after leaving pax to either burn to death or drown?

 

If it is a LEGAL requirement, surely those captains should have been tried and convicted...but since they all got away with it, despite the death of 159 people in Scandinavian Star's case....do please explain how they managed to dodge the bullet?

 

It is not obligatory for the captain/master to be the last off the ship in distress...traditional, yes...legality, no.

 

 

Where did I say last.......I clearly explained the reasoning he has to do everything he can,then he can leave..............you just show your office chair know it all attitude. ..................as to the Oceanis, it's well known in the Maritime industry,that after he hid in Durban and then was slipped out of South Africa, the greek goverment/courts were payed off.They dragged in on and on..until no one was watching and then dropped it all.

 

The joke was for us all to go get Greek lisences so we wouldn't have to worry about leaving the vessel first!.

 

Each case is different

 

 

However you are very good at blending fact and fiction, to make your warped opinions appear as fact.

 

 

AKK

[sidari]

SB ... Thanks for that info i remember we too had the Red cards to hand in for our muster drill on the Costa Deliziosa, they were all collected from us that day though i prefer the RCI and MSC way of scanning everyones seapass card when they attend muster drills.

 

Here is a link to a BBC story about the Anniversary and includes a video.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-19962191

[SomeBeach]

Sidari, thanks for the link. I am always fascinated by video that shows how they plan to remove the ship. When you think how they will only have one chance to get it right, it makes it all the more interesting.

[cruiserfanfromct]

I thought you were better than bringing things down to Gutter level!

The intention was to bring it below bilge level where Captain Gutless Wonder belongs.

I am saying that once it was realised that they had made a terrible mistake that they at least tried to do something about it rather than stand and watch the ship power its way onto the reef.

True, I'll give you this one although a day late and a dollar short.

Yes they were there but not where decisions were either being made or not as the case may be, i am sure there will be no love lost for him by many but there will be others who were involved who have or will forgive him.

So far I haven't come across any reports of praise or forgiveness by any passenger, have you?

[CostaSmurfette]

I wonder who wasn't concentrating on this one then....any canoodling with female ratings, perhaps...or was it divine intervention....ah..but wait...naval crews NEVER make mistakes, now do they?

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21072275

 

A US Navy minesweeper is stuck on a coral reef off the Philippines after running aground early on Thursday.

 

The USS Guardian struck the reef in the Sulu Sea south-east of Palawan island after completing a port call at the former US naval base of Subic Bay.

[sidari]

CS ... Maybe it was not on their charts or maps! or maybe the Radar was not working! .... :eek:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-19962191

Edited January 18, 2013 by sidari