The "Carnivalization" of Holland America.....

[DFD1]

JIm: Your posts are filled with interersting information. You make a good case for cruising being what it is today.....and I don't think it's bad at all.....and I've been at it since 1965.

[Charliesmom]

I think the "Carnivalization" isn't that at all. Obviously, the buckets of beer sold. That makes it good marketing to offer them. As for the waiter not being good for the person who had the tough steak - there are good wait staff teams and not so good wait staff teams. If you can't get the waiter's attention, get up out of your seat and go talk to the maitre d'. That will get you good service for the rest of the trip. No waiter wants to have attention called to his or her deficiencies and will really work hard to fix any perceived problems. However, they do have to know about it.

 

On a Princess cruise that we were on in 2003, the waiter was a bit pushy. One of the other guests at our table complained to the Maitre d'. The next night the head waiter came over with an offer of a free bottle of wine (it was refused) and the waiter turned out to be absolutely top notch. He just needed a little reminding that the customer is whom he is serving.

 

As for Carnivalization - we took a Carnival cruise last February. The breakfasts were exactly the same every day. The breads and pastries were horrible at every meal. The whole atmosphere was too loud for our tastes. Still and all, we had excellent service in the dining room. The company does everything they can to make their personnel as efficient as possible. So it really is a matter of taste.

 

Roberta

[bepsf]

"Carnivalization"?

Without Carnival Corporation, Holland America Line wouldn't have the ships it now has in the numbers and variety it now has, if it would indeed exist...

If you recall, 16 years ago HAL had just increased its fleet to 4 ships: in addition to the nearly 30 year old Rotterdam (V) & the relatively new Noordam/Nieuw Amsterdam twins - HAL had just bought the former Home Lines' Homeric (Westerdam) and had also recently bought Windstar.

16 years ago, Carnival had a newly developed business case and was in advanced stages of designing a new class of ships for what they called "Project Tiffany" - a new brand that would cater to premium cruise passengers that were turned off by the Carnival product. However, Carnival didn't have experience running a premium line and didn't necessarily want to spend the cash on training staff and buying the PR to build the name recognition/cachet for this new luxury product.

HAL was also developing a new class of ships, but was in the early stages and having trouble financing their newbuild program. HAL had the right brand, the right staffing, the right history and an incredible clientelle of loyal repeat passengers - what it needed was cash.

16 years ago, Carnival Corp. gave HAL what it needed to stay afloat: Nearly complete designs for the S-Class ships and endless funding to build, staff and operate them. HAL gave Carnival what it needed: a great brand, staff that knew how to deal w/ demanding passengers and the loyalty of the passengers themselves.

Is it unreasonable to expect Carnival Corp. to get something out of its investment in HAL? Of course not. But is it reasonable to blame Carnival Corp. for everything you don't like about HAL service? If HAL were making money hand over fist - it wouldn't have sold itself to Carnival 16 years ago...

[sail7seas]

jgsi,

 

 

 

2. In the good old days, the staff received much higher tips - in fact double what they do today. Do you think if we offered to pay the staff twice as much again, they would be willing to work as hard as they did before?

 

QUOTE]

 

 

Unless I am mistaken, it was HAL's (not the passengers') decision to introduce their new automatic tips added way of doing things?

 

Did they expect the staff would be earning more money under this new system?

 

Did they realize they were cutting their pay in half?

 

What do they plan to do about it, if anything?

[DFD1]

Great post, Brian. You make a good case.

 

Personally, I fail to see what all the carping is about. After many years of traveling in virtually every way possible, I find cruising to be the absolute best value in the travel world. The quality of the experience for the money invested is superb.

 

If HAL has survived and prospered under the corporate umbrella of Carnival, then hooray for them both.