October 2012 Destiny overboard incident - lawsuit filed

[railroader]

Why didn't the people she was with throw her a life vest or ring. 90% of the people always taking care of the 10% that shouldn't be here.

[songbird1329]

Wow I mean, I'm all for personal accountability and all but I sure as hell hope none of you are on my cruise. The left her in the water and continued cruising!!! I mean, do you think they knew she was drunk when she went overboard? Do you think it's okay that they just said, "Okay, well she was drunk and dancing on the railing so we should just let her die."

 

Seriously if not for any reason other than the fact that they did not immediately stop the ship Carnival should pay and pay dearly. That's just plain sickening. I can't believe they even found her.

 

And FWIW bars often lose their liquor license in my state when they over-serve people and the person ends up getting caught driving. I don't like getting shut off at a bar but at some point it just makes sense. I bet she wins a lot of money because the law isn't alway about personal responsibility when negligence is involved by other parties. If her injuries are worse because she was left in the water and not airlifted then she will win.

 

 

Honestly, we don't know what protocols were followed and what rescue efforts were made. Her friends' perception is that not enough was done, but we don't know the facts. It takes a lot of effort to stop and turn a cruise ship. This is information the lawyers will develop in pretrial depositions.

[foilman2002]

Basically because he's still the Chairman of The Senate Committee of Commerce, Science and Transportation. The "BILL" everyone is throwing around erroneously is ficticious, but reflects the "charge" some, including JR, think Carival should pay in retribution to the Coast Guard assist in the Splendor and Triumph events. Throw in that Carnival pays such a low tax rate yet reaped some tax payer rewards and it just sends some on a spin. Even JR admitted that it would be a change at the Congressional level to change the loopholes every uses when doing their taxes. And the spin goes on from there.....

 

I just wonder how many of those righteous people would volunteer to pay for rescue services if they were not presented with an invoice for those services and indeed could not be charged for those services.

[Wanna_Cruise]

Why didn't the people she was with throw her a life vest or ring. 90% of the people always taking care of the 10% that shouldn't be here.

 

I wondered why no one in the thread have asked about that. And I also wondered ... what is the average time a person uninjured could be expected to survive by treading water, floating in the ocean. Maybe she went over the railing but was trying to "play" on the life boat. Or hang on to it for a few minutes to scare her friends. Maybe the ship was slow to react because her "friends" also were unsure she really went over board and were playing them. Will be interesting to hear what the other side has to say. I do hope we get to hear that too. Speculation is really all we have to go on so far. I cannot believe her injuries were that extensive or the time lapse was that long.

[WetToes]

I'm wondering ... were her 'friends' just as drunk as she was? Maybe, if things happened the way the article says, no one believed, or could make sense of anything they were saying.

[Tampa cruiser1963]

I do not believe that she could have survived in the open water for two hours with the level of injuries and intoxication that she claims, nor that the ship could even find her after sailing away from her for 90 minutes.

[WetToes]

I do not believe that she could have survived in the open water for two hours with the level of injuries and intoxication that she claims, nor that the ship could even find her after sailing away from her for 90 minutes.

 

 

I agree.

'If' she were in the water that long maybe she had large 'enhancements' to help her stay afloat. ;)

[Rockee4055]

This is truly horrible but I have one comment. Carnival cannot make anyone drunk. This statement I am tired of hearing.

 

 

I agree! This is a terrible tragedy and I hope she had a speedy recovery.

 

However, she ordered the alcohol and she raised the glass to her lips. The problem here is that she needs to be responsible for her own actions, and she wasn't.

 

I find it very hard to believe she was able to fall over the balcony or railing. It just seems way to easy for someone to blame a corporation for their lack of responsibility rather then live up to their actions.

[Rockee4055]

I have read at least 4 posts on here in the last week that "blame" Carnival for the drunks on their ship. Sorry but the blame is totally in the wrong place.

 

I rarely drink except for vacation. So what. I do not blame Carnival for making me buy drinks. I do because I want to.

 

I'm the same way Deborah. I only have a couple of drinks while on vacation. The best thing is I like to stay sober and in control so I can enjoy the stupidity of those who don't act responsible.

[Rockee4055]

Well Carnival caters to that "type" of crowd, soooo what do you expect?

 

So, what you're saying is all people that sail CCL are out of control drunks?

 

I along with thousands of others on here would absolutely resent that and be offended by that stereotype.

 

You cannot tell me that of all the other cruise you've been on that there has "never" been anyone who was drunk and out of control?

 

If you do make that claim I seriously have to say that you would not be telling the truth or you spent the entire week in your cabin.

 

Out of 13 cruises I may have had 15 drinks total.

[Rockee4055]

I Agree.

 

Also, I'm surprised at people to imagine they automatically shed their own "personal responsibility" when they are at work -- for example, as servers or bartenders. Or any other profession, for that matter

 

Does anybody actually believe that it is ethical supply alcohol to somebody who's stupid drunk? So drunk, in fact, that they may actually be approaching alcohol poisoning? How ignorant is that?

 

In my job creating graphic art, advertising, and web development, I refuse to engage in unethical practices. That too, is personal responsibility. Clients who ask me to create spam email campaigns, false advertising, or other promotional media with shady intentions, are greatly disappointed. And I can guarantee that you'll never receive, through my company, a fraudulent postcard pretending to be free cruise you've just won from Carnival.

 

We're all responsible for or own actions and we have to live with the decision we make. Isn't this the first rule of parenthood and what we teach our kids?

[Rockee4055]

As I said on the other thread about this case a few weeks ago, the plaintiffs' bar is trying to expand the scope of Dram Shop liability. Traditionally Dram Shop laws deal with injuries caused to innocent third parties caused by someone who is inebriated. The bar and bartender who "over-serve" a patron may be held responsible if that patron drives whike drunk and causes an accident. There are attorneys who want to hold the bartender responsible for the patron's injuries. As far as I know, that argument hasn't been very successful in court.

 

 

The only part of her claim that concerns me is whether she received proper and adequate treatment for her injuries. Regardless of how she was injured, Carnival had the responsibility to provide appropriate care. And we, anonymous commentators on a message board, don't have the information to know if she can show by a preponderance of evidence that the care she received was negligent. All we have are her lawyer's allegations, media soundbites and our own speculation.

 

I agree but with the description of her injuries I doubt very much if they had the equipment to medically care for her. It seemed like they controlled her pain until they could get her to a facility where emergency urgent care could have been given.

[Rockee4055]

You know my then 9 year old never fell off the balcony. In fact my DW nor I have either. I would say it would require quite a bit of effort for any of us to slip and fall off of the balcony. But then again what do I know about effort and physics?

 

I think you would almost have to be about 8 feet tall for you to be top heavy enough to go over.

 

That's a pretty heavy task to go over the rail unless she was doing the Titanic standup.

[Rockee4055]

I'm looking at it from the other angle. If anyone falls over for any reason, and is seen, why would they refuse to turn around until a passenger check is performed?

 

 

Agreed. Something doesn't sound right. I found it hard to believe they would not turn the ship around immediately, unless.....

 

They were looking at the camera to substantiate the claim or the friends had no sense of time because of the alcohol. Who knows and we will probably never know.

[Rockee4055]

Several years ago we took the car ferry from Portland' date=' Maine to Nova Scotia. It was an overnight trip and before we settled for the night we partied and had quite a few cocktails. I got up during the night to use the bathroom and walking back to bed the ferry swayed one way and I swayed the other falling and hitting my head on the metal bed frame. My husband called the ship doctor who asked if I could walk to the infirmary where he very carefully stitched up my eyebrow. The next morning when I showed up at breakfast with an enormous bandage covering my stitches the comments started. "Do you have a good lawyer", "Are you going to sue" and so on. I was horrified to think people would do something like that over something that was clearly my fault. I wrote a very lengthy letter to the ferry company praising the doctor and his nurse and saying what a great time we had in spite of my injury. Shortly after I received a phone call from them telling me to please return for a free cruise. When we did we were greeted and thanked for not trying to do anything that would jeopardize their reputation or cause any problems. People are just too suit happy these days and don't care who they hurt along the way.[/quote']

 

Where's the like button?

[Rockee4055]

Although I've never seen a thread about this, I wonder if anyone has ever seriously blamed Carnival for gaining weight on their cruise. " It's Carnival's fault that I ate fourteen Warm Chocolate Melting Cakes and gained 20 lbs.!" Whether it's on a cruise ship or dry land, it's much easier for some people to blame others for things that happen to them than to take responsibility for their own actions.

 

I'd be a millionaire! :rolleyes:

[etoile]

It's a red herring any way you look at it. The Splendor, Triumph, Legend, Dream, Elation, Triumph again, Grand Turd, or Fascination events hadn't even happened yet when this incident happened.

LOL, okay okay, so my spouse was wrong with the "bill" comment, and I appreciate the correction on the nature of that issue, I was just using the language I had seen in articles, now I understand it better.

 

However, the Splendor incident was in November 2010, I just want to point that out. Almost 2 years before this lady's oopsy-daisy.

 

BTW, I have no "agenda" with posting any of this. I spotted the article and thought it was interesting and wanted to put it out for discussion, that's all. I like discussion! I'm in agreement with pretty much all the posters here...and yeah, I misunderstood the nature of the "bill" issue, but I blame my spouse entirely for relating it to this lawsuit at all. :)

[MrPete]

LOL, okay okay, so my spouse was wrong with the "bill" comment, and I appreciate the correction on the nature of that issue, I was just using the language I had seen in articles, now I understand it better.

 

However, the Splendor incident was in November 2010, I just want to point that out. Almost 2 years before this lady's oopsy-daisy.

 

BTW, I have no "agenda" with posting any of this. I spotted the article and thought it was interesting and wanted to put it out for discussion, that's all. I like discussion! I'm in agreement with pretty much all the posters here...and yeah, I misunderstood the nature of the "bill" issue, but I blame my spouse entirely for relating it to this lawsuit at all. :)

 

 

No. There was another more recent Splendor incident. The Fishing Net Fiasco.

[etoile]

No. There was another more recent Splendor incident. The Fishing Net Fiasco.

 

Ooh okay, I missed that one...I just saw "Splendor" and thought of the fire.

[Clydesmom7865]

I didn't read all 3 pages but first: her injuries are severe but grossly inflated. Had she truly dissected her carotid artery she would be dead. It is one of the largest blood vessels in the body and if it tore death is instantaneous.

 

Second: complaining that they didn't "stop" for her is ridiculous too. It is a megaton cruise ship not a Ford Fiesta. They don't stop and turn on a dime. Even with her friends reporting her over board there are shipboard procedures that have to be followed before turning around to search the ocean.

 

Third: The ship's medical personnel are trained for the average illness and injury but are not trauma surgeons. Short of pain medication and keeping her stable there isn't much else they can do.

 

Fourth: She assumes they could just air evacuate her. The reality is if you are too far from shore and no helicopter has the fuel supply or range to reach you then you wait until you reach a port WHICH THEY DIVERTED TO.

 

Fifth: complaining about the hospital in Key West and suing Carnival for it is stupid. The reality is most hospitals do not have trauma centers and the nearest one to Key West would be in Miami so you would have to be moved there.

 

LAST: they forced her to drink excessively? I doubt that. Take some responsibility for your own actions and stop blaming others.

 

Climbing off the soap box now.

[RRLLAL]

Well Carnival caters to that "type" of crowd, soooo what do you expect?

 

When I did my online paperwork I must have missed the check box that asked if you were a drunk.

 

Btw, according to others, Carnival has the most expensive drinks. You'd think if they catered to drunks, they'd have cheap drinks.

 

Kinda hurts your strawman.

 

Sent using my Commodore 64

[etoile]

A couple people have said you would die from a dissection of the carotid artery. I am not a doctor, but that is not how I read the info below.

 

http://my.clevelandclinic.org/disorders/carotid_artery_disease/carotid-artery-dissection.aspx --

 

What is the outlook following carotid artery dissection?

For spontaneous carotid artery dissection, the mortality is less than 5 percent. The risk for lasting neurological impairment from the disease is considerably higher. More than half of patients with spontaneous carotid artery dissection develop a stroke, sometimes delayed by hours or days. Even so, an estimated 75 percent of patients with spontaneous carotid artery dissection make a good recovery.

 

In patients with dissection following trauma (car accident, sports injury, etc.) the stroke rate ranges from 3 to 44 percent, depending on the severity of injury. An estimated 37 to 58 percent of patients with dissection following trauma have lasting neurological problems. They also have a higher mortality rate compared with patients who have spontaneous carotid artery dissection.

 

Following the first incidence of carotid artery dissection, patients have a 1 percent risk of recurrence per year over the next 10 years. Risk of recurrence is higher in younger patients than older patients, but younger patients also respond better to treatment and have a better outlook. Some patients have reported persistent headache after carotid artery dissection, lasting years after the event.

 

People who have had carotid artery dissection should see a vascular specialist for a CTA, DUS or other imaging to assess the severity and extension of the dissection. This imaging is normally repeated several months later to have the dissection re-evaluated for either progression, resolution or stability of the injury.

 

(Obviously this is a traumatic dissection, not a spontaneous one.)

[songbird1329]

I didn't read all 3 pages but first: her injuries are severe but grossly inflated. Had she truly dissected her carotid artery she would be dead. It is one of the largest blood vessels in the body and if it tore death is instantaneous.

 

Second: complaining that they didn't "stop" for her is ridiculous too. It is a megaton cruise ship not a Ford Fiesta. They don't stop and turn on a dime. Even with her friends reporting her over board there are shipboard procedures that have to be followed before turning around to search the ocean.

 

Third: The ship's medical personnel are trained for the average illness and injury but are not trauma surgeons. Short of pain medication and keeping her stable there isn't much else they can do.

 

Fourth: She assumes they could just air evacuate her. The reality is if you are too far from shore and no helicopter has the fuel supply or range to reach you then you wait until you reach a port WHICH THEY DIVERTED TO.

 

Fifth: complaining about the hospital in Key West and suing Carnival for it is stupid. The reality is most hospitals do not have trauma centers and the nearest one to Key West would be in Miami so you would have to be moved there.

 

LAST: they forced her to drink excessively? I doubt that. Take some responsibility for your own actions and stop blaming others.

 

Climbing off the soap box now.

 

Abd you know all this . . . how?

 

 

The ship does have protocols for verifying that a passenger went overboard and there are procedures for effectuating a rescue. I believe that Carnival followed those procedures because the young woman was, in fact, rescued. But we weren't there abd we have no firsthand information.

 

As for the medical malpractice issues, you make some excellent suggestions about the medical capabilities aboard ship. Since tge young woman survived I believe she received appropriate care. But again, the ship's doctors excercised their medical judgment after reviewing her medical condition. We aren't her treating doctors . . .and those of you who have medical training haven't read her records.

 

Those of you who've made up your minds based on sound bites and speculation . . .thank you for your jury service, but you will not be empanelled and are therefor dismissed.

 

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