Rms qm2

[Topsham]

And Wiki says:

 

 

HMS Queen Elizabeth was the lead ship of the Queen Elizabeth-class battleships, launched in 1913 and scrapped in 1948.

.

 

 

 

And the story goes that during the Second World War, HMS QUEEN ELIZABETH came upon HMT (HM Transport) QUEEN ELIZABETH and a solitary signal by lamp passed between the two of them.... "SNAP".

[Topsham]

his event took place according to Cunard records “sometime in 1941 in the southern approaches to the Red Sea” (letter headed “Cunard White Star Limited – Publicity Department” , dated 12th August 1949 and addressed to Commander Ralph Handcock RN). The Commander was clearly digging for more information, however, and in a further letter to him dated 13th September 1949 and this time from the Navy League, the Editor’s Secretary quotes a note from the artist, Oscar Parkes, saying “ The Two Queens story was given out in ’46 about the time I sent in my picture of the incident, but I understand the meeting took place when the battleship was returning from her refit in the USA after being damaged by a frogman in Alexandria Harbour. If so it would be about June ’42, but it is very difficult to substantiate dates and the only satisfactory way would be to consult the ship’s log and it may or may not have been entered”. The Editor’s secretary goes on to say ”it has been pointed out to me that this would have been a private signal and it is very improbable that it would have been recorded...”

A private flag hoist from HM Warship to HM Troop Transport is may have been but there is little doubt that such a meeting with the world’s largest and fastest merchant ship would have been entered in HMS QUEEN ELIZABETH’s Deck Log – if not RMS QUEEN ELIZABETH’s too! The battleship who had indeed been badly damaged by very skilfully placed Italian limpet mines on 19th December 1941 in the Royal Navy’s eastern Mediterranean base of Alexandria in Egypt, was subsequently lifted in a floating dock where emergency repairs were carried out to enable her to steam elsewhere for more permanent work to be done. On 5 May 1942 she proceeded to Port Sudan where her fuel tanks were repaired and oil fuel embarked for passage to the USA. She sailed for Norfolk, Virginia in mid July and underwent permanent and extensive repairs between September 1942 and June 1943, dates that appear to be at odds with the letters quoted above. Further confusion arises as in his book “Make Another Signal”, Captain Jack Broome RN says ‘ HMS QUEEN ELIZABETH and Cunard liner QUEEN ELIZABETH met for the first time in mid-Atlantic: QUEEN ELIZABETH to QUEEN ELIZABETH: “SNAP”’. Although in their initial trooping voyages from Singapore and Australia the great liners were routed up the Red Sea to Suez via the Indian Ocean, by 1942 when the artist believed this rendezvous to have occurred, with America now in the war, the QUEENs did most of their trooping across the North Atlantic: and so Jackie Broome’s version of the Atlantic as the meeting place is also plausible. No matter – its a superb Oscar Parkes watercolour of an amusing event and is one of not too many paintings of the great liner in her wartime livery.

Dr Oscar Parkes, a practising General Medical Practitioner, had served in the Naval Intelligence Division at the British Admiralty during the Great War and when he left the Service in 1920 it was to be as editor of Jane’s Fighting Ships, a post he held until 1935. He had always drawn and painted we are told and some of his watercolours, always hard to find, are very well regarded today.

[pmb1]

And the story goes that during the Second World War, HMS QUEEN ELIZABETH came upon HMT (HM Transport) QUEEN ELIZABETH and a solitary signal by lamp passed between the two of them.... "SNAP".

Thanks, Topsham. That's one of those stories that is to be considered true just because it ought to be true.

[turquoise 6]

And the story goes that during the Second World War, HMS QUEEN ELIZABETH came upon HMT (HM Transport) QUEEN ELIZABETH and a solitary signal by lamp passed between the two of them.... "SNAP".

thank you Topsham for your enlightening and informative post.

You are from Bermuda? A place with a strong Nautical history

[turquoise 6]

H.M.S. Queen Elizabeth is or rather will be a British Aircraft carrier built in the UK when she is launched, Only problem is that currently we don't have any Aircraft to put on her, See here http://www.aircraftcarrieralliance.co.uk/en/the-ships/the-queen-elizabeth-class.aspx

That is a problem for an aircraft carrier.

[turquoise 6]

Thanks Salacia.

 

Yes, Cunard could make a real play on the NY/Bermuda connection and I would certainly be happy to see QV or QE in Bermuda... FREQUENTLY.

 

Once the dust settles in Southampton I intend to write to Mr Tempest with several 'ideas'.

 

With me the connection with Cunard is very personal. My first time off the island was in 1967 as a 14 year-old. I signed on the FRANCONIA as a deck Boy for three weeks... Bermuda, New York, Quebec, Montreal, PE Island, Boston, Bermuda. My first 'job' on boarding was to lower a tender with a couple of the other Deck Boys, the Bosun Tom King and under the supervision of Staff captain Lee... we took the boat from No 1 Dock in Hamilton over to Paget to pick up Captain Smith and bring him to the ship in time for sailing. While on the Bermuda run Captain Smith and his wife rented a home in Paget. Now that is how to live!

 

The next year I sailed Bermuda to NY in FRANCONIA, then on to Southampton in QUEEN ELIZABETH and a month later returned in QE to NY and back home in the FRANC... but as a passenger. Good old Cunard days!

Those were the good olde days. I bet you can tell us about the

history and some facts about The Furness Line and the Queen of Bermuda.

Yes I know it's not Cunard.

[Scrapnana]

 

Yes, Cunard could make a real play on the NY/Bermuda connection and I would certainly be happy to see QV or QE in Bermuda... FREQUENTLY.

 

Is there a reason why the cruise ships don't go to Bermuda from December to March? I only see one ship scheduled during that time period.

[glojo]

In an agreement between Cunard and the Royal Mail the QUEEN MARY 2 is permitted to carry the designation 'Royal Mail Ship' or R.M.S. This used to denote that the steamship line had a contract with Royal Mail to carry the mail in the line's steamers. Royal Mail paid freight to the steamship line for the fast and speedy delivery of the mail. For this reason mail was usually carried in the express steamers.

 

QUEEN MARY 2 continues to carry the prefis RMS as she is still a British registered ship. Vessels registered in Bermuda are considered to be 'Red Ensign Group One' meaning that being registered in Hamilton, Bermuda is no different from being registered in London, Southampton, Liverpool, Glasgow or whatever UK port. She still flies a plain red ensign although in some cases ships on the Bermuda register fly the defaced red ensign. This is a red ensign with the Bermuda Coat of Arms in the 'fly' of the flag.

 

Now how about this.... the Arms of Bermuda show a sailing ship being wrecked on a rocky shore... supposedly the SEA VENTURE in 1609. The wreck of SEA VENTURE was the inspiration for the play 'The Tempest' by a certain William Sheakspere. Kind of interesting now that the chap running Cunard is Mr Tempest!!!!

 

Back to the mail.....

 

If you take a postcard or letter to the Purser's Office to be posted you pay the postage and hand over the item for posting. At the next port, all of the mail and the money for posting is handed to the Port Agent who takes it along to the nearest post office for stamping and franking. This is why mail posted on board may arrive with a stamp from New York, Southampton, Sydney, Hong King etc etc.

 

To my knowledge the QM2 is not a 'PAGUEBOT'. A PAGUEBOT is a ship which has an official post office on board, not necessarily being a ship with the prefit Royal Mail Ship. In fact a PAQUEBOT can be a vessel of any nationality.

 

On a PAQUEBOT the letter or card is stamped and 'franked' or 'cancelled' on board. When the PAQUEBOT arrives in port the ship hands over all the mail to be posted to a post office... with all the necessary postal forms filled out etc. No money is handed over and the post office is required by law to forward the mail for delivery to whereever in the world it is addressed. Is QM2 was a PAQUEBOT then the only stamps she would carry on board would be Bermuda Stamps. For PAQUEBOT all of the items being handed over to be posted have to be tallied and a proper accounting of money receeived must be kept. On a large liner like QM2 it would be a full time job for someone so in this day and age unlikely they would carry a designated postman.

 

So, if your letter or card arrives and it is marked PAQUEBOT MAIL - POSTED ON THE HIGH SEAS as well as a ship's stamp or company stamp then it is genuine PAQUEBOT. If it just carries a stamp that says eg QM2 or CUNARD LINE then it is simply Cunard using your private mail for advertising purposes!

 

The above is a very simple explanation of PAQUEBOT mail. The subject is much more complicated than space or memory allows!

 

The last time I saw a cruise ship using PAQUEBOT mail was the ROYAL VIKING SUN back about 1990.

An excellent and most informative post. Thank you for posting it.

 

My thoughts are that where a ship is built has absolutely no relevance to where she is operated from or registered. Look at our Royal Navies and you will find ships that are built in numerous countries and possibly even purchased second-hand from other nations.

 

I like to see these old titles being preserved and there will always be the need for sea or surface mail.

 

During the Beira Patrol era Royal NAvy ships would 'deputise' (request) specific British registered merchant ships to take off certain items of our mail and take it to their next port of call (perhaps we should have given them the honorary title of Acting\RMS) ;) (humour)

 

For folks who are not aware 'Royal Mail' is the name for the business that handles British mail click

 

When aboard a Cunard ship is there a location where we can post letters or postcards?

[zider]

That is a problem for an aircraft carrier.

Strange but true it looks like our politicians are members of the Monty Python team.

[glojo]

Thanks, Topsham. That's one of those stories that is to be considered true just because it ought to be true.

 

It is a common occurence and I can recall serving on HMS Centaur when we acknowledged the M\V centaur with a similar response :)

 

For those that are interested in that very valid point about carriers without aircraft......

 

We are already in the rediculous situation of a carrier not having any fixed wing aircraft.. We have one at present that is sailing the high seas and their Lordships have simply changed the ship's description from aircraft carrier to...

High Readiness Helicopter and Commando Carrier.

:(:o:o

[Topsham]

Those were the good olde days. I bet you can tell us about the

history and some facts about The Furness Line and the Queen of Bermuda.

Yes I know it's not Cunard.

 

 

Turquoise,

 

You should try to get a copy of QUEEN OF BERMUDA and the Furness Bermuda Line, Pub by Bermuda Maritime Museum Press.

 

Co-authored by Piers Plowman and Stephen Card.

 

Stephen (Card):)

[turquoise 6]

Turquoise,

 

You should try to get a copy of QUEEN OF BERMUDA and the Furness Bermuda Line, Pub by Bermuda Maritime Museum Press.

 

Co-authored by Piers Plowman and Stephen Card.

 

Stephen (Card):)

Hi Stephen,

Thank you for the info. I will get a copy . I sailed on the Queen Of Bermuda

to Front Street ,Hamilton. The Queen of Bermuda was a beautiful ship. It fit into Bermuda Culture,as you know. The Ocean Monarch was another Furness Ship.

I will lok for that book.

T

[turquoise 6]

Turquoise,

 

You should try to get a copy of QUEEN OF BERMUDA and the Furness Bermuda Line, Pub by Bermuda Maritime Museum Press.

 

Co-authored by Piers Plowman and Stephen Card.

 

Stephen (Card):)

Hi Stephen

I want to let you know that your oil painting of the Green Caronia and the Green Mauritania are magnificent. I have taken pictures of them and always look at your paintings,when I'm on the QM2!!

I will look forward to more conversation with you. ( I always admired the

Caronia. It has the same lines as the Queen Of Bermuda)

Thanks so much

T:)

[RCNslr]

Just left QM2 June 8th after a foggy crossing. Saw HMS Illustrious in Western Approaches and there was a big helicopter on her deck. So there is still some aviation for the carriers and it was a nostalgic moment for me seeing this fine ship at sea for one of the last times since she is due to be scrapped. On the RMS bit, I noted that the Royal Mail Pennant was hosted to the yardarm on arrival in SOU, close to the time that the junior officer on the bridge noted that I was watching them from the viewing area behind the bridge which had conveniently been left open, oh well, he needed something to do booting me from my vantage point!

BYW great trip, once again, Osman was on leave, but others filled in magnificently.

[RCNslr]

Just left QM2 June 8th after a foggy crossing. Saw HMS Illustrious in Western Approaches and there was a big helicopter on her deck. So there is still some aviation for the carriers and it was a nostalgic moment for me seeing this fine ship at sea for one of the last times since she is due to be scrapped. On the RMS bit, I noted that the Royal Mail Pennant was hoisted to the yardarm on arrival in SOU, close to the time that the junior officer on the bridge noted that I was watching them from the viewing area behind the bridge which had conveniently been left open, oh well, he needed something to do booting me from my vantage point!

BT:DW great trip, once again, Osman was on leave, but others filled in magnificently.

[Topsham]

Turquoise,

Ah... you sailed in a REAL ocean liner! :-)

 

What year were cruising in QOB and OCEAN MONARCH? As a New Yorker what else could you possibly sail in!!!

 

If you have any problem getting the book... and don't pay over $55 on Amazon... let me know and I will get one for you.

 

I never sailed in the QUEEN but did visit her and OCEAN MONARCH many times. I worked for Furness (General Shipping Division) back in 1977 as Second Officer... but the ship was one of the Shaw Savill & Albion fleet. The regular captain was off on leave... he was Captain Ray Marshall of the OCEAN MONARCH.

 

When I left the sea to become a marine artist some of the best advice and encouragement came from Captain Magnus Musson, master of QUEEN OF BERMUDA... himself a master marine painter!

 

Check out www.furnessbermudaline.com You are eligible to join!

 

My e-mail is: prinsendam at hotmail dot com

[Topsham]

GLOJO....

 

CENTAUR.... good friend of mine was a Lt Cdr (E) on board. John Clark from Southampton.

 

I made a small painting of CENTAUR for him a couple of years ago. E-mail me and I'll send a copy to you.

 

prinsendam at hotmail dot com

 

Torquay... nice place. Used to call there once a month in 1972... to embark North Sea Pilot ... gtv EUROLINER. Spent four years in Hemerdon Heights, Plympton. God's country!

 

Stephen

[Topsham]

SCRAPNANA....

 

Your question....

 

Is there a reason why the cruise ships don't go to Bermuda from December to March? I only see one ship scheduled during that time period.

 

Back in the old days Bermuda was developed as a winter resort. One could sail to Bermuda froma frozen New York and be in the sun... or at least something close to it... with 36 hours. Unfortunately as Mark Twain noted, "Bermuda is heaven on earth but you have to go through hell to get there!"

 

When flying became easy and cheap it was possible to fly south to Florida and then the islands.... the cruise ships followed.

 

Stephen

[turquoise 6]

Turquoise,

Ah... you sailed in a REAL ocean liner! :-)

 

What year were cruising in QOB and OCEAN MONARCH? As a New Yorker what else could you possibly sail in!!!

 

If you have any problem getting the book... and don't pay over $55 on Amazon... let me know and I will get one for you.

 

I never sailed in the QUEEN but did visit her and OCEAN MONARCH many times. I worked for Furness (General Shipping Division) back in 1977 as Second Officer... but the ship was one of the Shaw Savill & Albion fleet. The regular captain was off on leave... he was Captain Ray Marshall of the OCEAN MONARCH.

 

When I left the sea to become a marine artist some of the best advice and encouragement came from Captain Magnus Musson, master of QUEEN OF BERMUDA... himself a master marine painter!

 

Check out www.furnessbermudaline.com You are eligible to join!

 

My e-mail is: prinsendam at hotmail dot com

Stephen,

I will take up your offer for you book . Thank you I will email you

I sailed on the Queen Of Bermuda: around 56'-59. (I was younger and with parents) but an experience I will never forget . Ocean Monarch around same time.. I know we went on a few cruises into the Caribbean on the Ocean Monarch. Captain Magnus Musson ,yes.

I always remember when the Queen Of Bermuda passed Cap Hatteras,the next day out of New York

that's when the seas got interesting.

I will look into the furnessberline.com

Yes the Queen of Bermuda was a true Ocean Liner

I always remember the 3 Red and Black Funnels .

I will email you