This year we are breaking the rules

[CruiseTobey]

I'm happy that they don't enforce their own rules. People that think what someone else wears affects them, are very shallow. Happy sailing!!

 

Couldn't have said it better myself. Thanks Jim.

[Kenlorz]

Or they can change the word "Suggested" into "Mandatory" and be done with it..it is as simple as that!!!...Providing they enforce it and send people to the WJ....

But untill then.....they choose not to make it mandatory and leave it lax to each owns likings....and that's the way it is...

 

You are absolutely correct. Unless they make a dress code mandatory (which I wish they would), it's never going to be settled one way or the other. I actually WANT TO & LIKE TO & DO dress up most nights of my cruise. It makes the night and my vacation with my husband feel like a special occasion (and as a mom of 4 teen boys... I don't get many of those). On the other hand, if a dress code is listed as "suggested" I can see why people feel like they are entitled one way or the other to do as they wish, because they say "it's not a rule, it's only a suggestion". Now, maybe it's my age showing, but TO ME if the suggestion is stated in print, it means that the company WANTS YOU TO and is ASKING YOU to follow the suggestion, and people are just bucking the system by saying "do what you want, no one's going to say anything to you anyway".

 

However, RCCL (IMHO) is never going to enforce any "rule" or "suggestion" as long as they don't have a NON-FEE, fully staffed, FULL SERVICE (not buffet, not pizza, not fast food) venue that serves a full dinner menu (apps, salads, main dish, sides, dessert). It would eliminate too many potential cruisers who would jump ship immediately and bring their business to another line. I think RCCL is trying to have their cake and eat it to. They want to be labeled as a classier cruise line than the norm (and THEY ARE in my book... we are loyal to Royal), but they also want to gain the families and the business class away on a getaway. So, they try to be both classy & elegant, but family friendly and casual at the same time.

 

That's why I feel if they would just offer BOTH types of eating venues equally and make it mandatory for each (the formal dining room being mandatory to have at least a jacket & tie for men and for ladies a dress or dressy outfit and the casual dining room having shorts allowed, but not bathing suits... yes, speedos & snorkels included :p), then it would free them up to be able to enforce the "suggestions", "rules" or whatever other label people want to put on it.

 

NCL has 3 different dining rooms on the Breakaway, Disney has rotational dining. Why can't we have differently named dining rooms which have different dress codes attached to and enforced for each?

[CruiseTobey]

Why does it have to be "neat and presentable"? Do you think RCI is going to stop people from coming in the MDR if they are not dressed neatly?

 

RCI already tells people what they think should be done, and some people think it doesn't matter, because RCI is not going to force them into anything.

 

And, as for you last comment, in a forum such as this, people have every right to tell others what they think should be done (especially if it's the exact same advice that RCI tells people what they think should be done). But just as with the advice from RCI, you can, and probably will, ignore it. :cool:

 

 

Wow. RCI should listen to Paul because he is, well... Paul. Makes sense to me.

 

Secondly, I don't understand why you get so worked up that you have to resort to repeated personal attacks. Could it be I've struck a nerve?

 

Peace, my friend.

[CruiseTobey]

Now, maybe it's my age showing, but TO ME if the suggestion is stated in print, it means that the company WANTS YOU TO and is ASKING YOU to follow the suggestion, and people are just bucking the system by saying "do what you want, no one's going to say anything to you anyway".

 

But if RCI doesn't care what I'm wearing, why does anybody else? I just don't understand why some get so worked up over such a small thing. Lighten up.

[WetToes]

I feel sorry for this horse. Poor beast. :(

[Kenlorz]

But if RCI doesn't care what I'm wearing, why does anybody else? I just don't understand why some get so worked up over such a small thing. Lighten up.

 

Lighten up? I actually have defended why some people can read into the word "suggestion" and feel they are entitled to wear what they want. I have offered an alternative to make both sides of the coin happy... because I think both sides have valid points and feelings. I also feel the word "suggestion" is too ambiguous and needs to be clarified better. However, I don't think my understanding of the word "suggestion" makes me uptight or in need of lightening up in any way, nor does that mean I'm "worked up". It simply means that I am not naive enough to think that because a company merely suggests something, it must mean they don't really care what I am or am not doing. My understanding is that if a company or business "suggests" that I do something, they WANT me to do it. If the IT department at my office suggests I back up my files, they want me to do it. If the bank suggests I keep records, they want me to do it. If a captain on a charter boat suggests everyone wear a lifejacket while on board, he wants me to do it. By making the suggestion, they are telling you what they WANT you to do, they just aren't FORCING you to do it. They are being kind and polite and I will offer the same consideration in return. It's called "mutual respect". So, why do people keep saying that RCI doesn't care what people are wearing? They have stated what they desire people to wear for different venues and when the fashion police don't come out in force and spoil their vacation by denying them entry to a venue, then they assume that RCI just doesn't care...so why should they care either. That's the equivalent of my oldest son being told by me... "I suggest you don't take my car out of the garage" and when he goes ahead and does it anyway, his response being "well I didn't think you really cared one way or the other". My implications were clear, I just stated it gently.

 

In fact, let's get into some semantics here, shall we?

The definition of Suggestion (and why it can be ambiguous):

1. To call forth

2. Propose as desirable and fitting

3. To prompt or demand to an action

all the above tell me they WANT me to follow their dress code

 

However, the following definitions are where "suggestion" gets ambiguous

4. To imply as a possibility

5. To offer up as a consideration

 

But even then, if someone totally negates the first three definitions of a "suggestion" and instead only uses the last 2 as their stance on why they can wear whatever they want, I still believe the cruise line wouldn't "imply" or "offer" these possibilities if they didn't actually want you to follow through... otherwise, they would just say "wear whatever the h$ll you want".

 

I may be old fashioned, and it is a dying element in a "do whatever you wish" society, but I was taught respect. The definition of which is....

 

1. To show differential regard for

2. To avoid violation

3. To regard with honor

4. A willingness to show consideration

5. Polite and proper consideration

6. An attitude of esteem

7. To treat with courtesy

 

So, truthfully, my understanding & interpretation of the word "suggestion" does not make me uptight or in need of loosening up, nor does it make me judgmental or snobbish. It merely means I believe in following the rules... and in the event that the "rules" are actually a "suggestion", then I believe in "respectfully" adhering to the "suggestions".

 

Lastly, as to why someone gets "worked up" over such a small thing as what you wear to the dining room. Actually, I never have. I have not had my night ruined by anyone wearing something inappropriate. As I've previously stated, almost everyone on my last cruise followed the suggestions, in fact, dressed nicer then the suggested attire on most nights. We actually had an experience (true story) at Giovanni's where the majority of the restaurant wore a jacket and tie and dresses and a couple walked in "neatly dressed", but obviously underdressed and loudly declared to the rest of their waiting party "Uhm... how come no one let us know we were supposed to dress up! We feel totally out of place!" They didn't spoil my meal one bit.

 

However, I can see why it could cause someone to not enjoy their dining experience. If someone blows their nose at the table, their boogers haven't gotten on me, but it still affects me because it makes me sick to my stomach. If a baby is screaming in a restaurant, I'm not the one who has to comfort it or take care of it, but I'm still affected, because it is distracting me from my meal and conversation. Although those are much more extreme examples, they are only used to show that sometimes the actions of another, while not directly affecting someone, can truly indirectly affect how they feel or experience the occassion. I understand how the person who mentioned getting dolled up in her finest and looking for a special experience on formal night was highly disappointed by being seated next to someone totally dressed down. Their attire might not directly affect her, but it does indirectly affect her dining experience. She was looking for an elegant and special experience, and had every right to expect such per the dress code suggestions, SHE followed the suggestions, SHE showed respect and consideration, yet she is looked down upon for giving a hoot about what others do. I just don't get it.

[Paul65]

Wow. RCI should listen to Paul because he is, well... Paul. Makes sense to me.

 

Secondly, I don't understand why you get so worked up that you have to resort to repeated personal attacks. Could it be I've struck a nerve?

 

Peace, my friend.

 

I thought I was just speaking your language. You were making similar "barbs" about others. I thought maybe you could use a little introspection that perhaps your view of things could come off a little holier-than-thou, as well. Apparently you didn't get that, though. No worries.

 

By the way, I didn't say anything about RCI listening to me, so I'm not sure where you got that.

[Paul65]

But if RCI doesn't care what I'm wearing, why does anybody else? I just don't understand why some get so worked up over such a small thing. Lighten up.

 

Why do you have to keep pretending that people are "worked up"?

 

RCI does care, in my opinion. If they didn't care, they wouldn't set a guideline; they'd just say "wear whatever you feel like wearing." It seems to be a common misconception on this topic that "I'm not going to force you" means the same as "I don't care.":cool:

[Paul65]

I'm happy that they don't enforce their own rules. People that think what someone else wears affects them, are very shallow. Happy sailing!!

 

I'm happy they don't enforce it, too. I'd rather they be focused on other things.

[Paul65]

I am not "high and mighty" in any way - I am as blue-collar as they come. I do, however, take an objective look at things and see them as they really are (or at least how I perceive it). In no way am I deriding those that enjoy the MDR.

 

High and mighty has nothing to do with white collar or blue collar. It has to do with the attitude you project. I was trying to point out to you how your posts can come across. The second sentence here is a good example. "I do, however, take an objective look at things....." and similar comments in your other posts give an air of superiority. YOU know how to look at things objectively, therefore YOUR opinions are better than those OTHER people who are not as objective as YOU. These come across as your "barbs", which I guess are veiled enough that you don't even admit to them.

 

As I said, you may not really mean it to come across that way. But that's all I was trying to point out. (And, for the record, I'm smiling at the moment. I am not at all "worked up.") :)

[Kenlorz]

(And, for the record, I'm smiling at the moment. I am not at all "worked up.") :)

 

Hey Paul... I'm smiling too! Particularly over your tag line.... that's priceless!

[leahsdad]

Can I wear flippers and a snorkel on formal nights? :D

 

 

the accurate answer is that it depends on maître de at the door

 

Paul

[CruiseTobey]

High and mighty has nothing to do with white collar or blue collar. It has to do with the attitude you project. I was trying to point out to you how your posts can come across. The second sentence here is a good example. "I do, however, take an objective look at things....." and similar comments in your other posts give an air of superiority. YOU know how to look at things objectively, therefore YOUR opinions are better than those OTHER people who are not as objective as YOU. These come across as your "barbs", which I guess are veiled enough that you don't even admit to them.

 

As I said, you may not really mean it to come across that way. But that's all I was trying to point out. (And, for the record, I'm smiling at the moment. I am not at all "worked up.") :)

 

Paul,

 

I am at the mercy of your irrefutable psychobabble. Since everything to you is an attack, I'll stop before you burst a blood vessel.

 

You win Paul, and may God have mercy on your soul.

 

How that for veiled? Maybe now this thread will finally get closed.

[CruiseTobey]

Lighten up? I actually have defended why some people can read into the word "suggestion" and feel they are entitled to wear what they want. I have offered an alternative to make both sides of the coin happy... because I think both sides have valid points and feelings. I also feel the word "suggestion" is too ambiguous and needs to be clarified better. However, I don't think my understanding of the word "suggestion" makes me uptight or in need of lightening up in any way, nor does that mean I'm "worked up". It simply means that I am not naive enough to think that because a company merely suggests something, it must mean they don't really care what I am or am not doing. My understanding is that if a company or business "suggests" that I do something, they WANT me to do it. If the IT department at my office suggests I back up my files, they want me to do it. If the bank suggests I keep records, they want me to do it. If a captain on a charter boat suggests everyone wear a lifejacket while on board, he wants me to do it. By making the suggestion, they are telling you what they WANT you to do, they just aren't FORCING you to do it. They are being kind and polite and I will offer the same consideration in return. It's called "mutual respect". So, why do people keep saying that RCI doesn't care what people are wearing? They have stated what they desire people to wear for different venues and when the fashion police don't come out in force and spoil their vacation by denying them entry to a venue, then they assume that RCI just doesn't care...so why should they care either. That's the equivalent of my oldest son being told by me... "I suggest you don't take my car out of the garage" and when he goes ahead and does it anyway, his response being "well I didn't think you really cared one way or the other". My implications were clear, I just stated it gently.

 

In fact, let's get into some semantics here, shall we?

The definition of Suggestion (and why it can be ambiguous):

1. To call forth

2. Propose as desirable and fitting

3. To prompt or demand to an action

all the above tell me they WANT me to follow their dress code

 

However, the following definitions are where "suggestion" gets ambiguous

4. To imply as a possibility

5. To offer up as a consideration

 

But even then, if someone totally negates the first three definitions of a "suggestion" and instead only uses the last 2 as their stance on why they can wear whatever they want, I still believe the cruise line wouldn't "imply" or "offer" these possibilities if they didn't actually want you to follow through... otherwise, they would just say "wear whatever the h$ll you want".

 

I may be old fashioned, and it is a dying element in a "do whatever you wish" society, but I was taught respect. The definition of which is....

 

1. To show differential regard for

2. To avoid violation

3. To regard with honor

4. A willingness to show consideration

5. Polite and proper consideration

6. An attitude of esteem

7. To treat with courtesy

 

So, truthfully, my understanding & interpretation of the word "suggestion" does not make me uptight or in need of loosening up, nor does it make me judgmental or snobbish. It merely means I believe in following the rules... and in the event that the "rules" are actually a "suggestion", then I believe in "respectfully" adhering to the "suggestions".

 

Lastly, as to why someone gets "worked up" over such a small thing as what you wear to the dining room. Actually, I never have. I have not had my night ruined by anyone wearing something inappropriate. As I've previously stated, almost everyone on my last cruise followed the suggestions, in fact, dressed nicer then the suggested attire on most nights. We actually had an experience (true story) at Giovanni's where the majority of the restaurant wore a jacket and tie and dresses and a couple walked in "neatly dressed", but obviously underdressed and loudly declared to the rest of their waiting party "Uhm... how come no one let us know we were supposed to dress up! We feel totally out of place!" They didn't spoil my meal one bit.

 

However, I can see why it could cause someone to not enjoy their dining experience. If someone blows their nose at the table, their boogers haven't gotten on me, but it still affects me because it makes me sick to my stomach. If a baby is screaming in a restaurant, I'm not the one who has to comfort it or take care of it, but I'm still affected, because it is distracting me from my meal and conversation. Although those are much more extreme examples, they are only used to show that sometimes the actions of another, while not directly affecting someone, can truly indirectly affect how they feel or experience the occassion. I understand how the person who mentioned getting dolled up in her finest and looking for a special experience on formal night was highly disappointed by being seated next to someone totally dressed down. Their attire might not directly affect her, but it does indirectly affect her dining experience. She was looking for an elegant and special experience, and had every right to expect such per the dress code suggestions, SHE followed the suggestions, SHE showed respect and consideration, yet she is looked down upon for giving a hoot about what others do. I just don't get it.

 

Stopped reading after the second sentence. Next time, try not using a novel to make a simple (yet somehow incoherent) point.

 

Congratulations. I'm done.

[Paul65]

Paul,

 

I am at the mercy of your irrefutable psychobabble. Since everything to you is an attack, I'll stop before you burst a blood vessel.

 

You win Paul, and may God have mercy on your soul.

 

How that for veiled? Maybe now this thread will finally get closed.

 

Nope. I am not nearly that sensitive. I don't see any of this as "attacks"...only discussion. Sorry if I upset you.

[Kenlorz]

Stopped reading after the second sentence. Next time, try not using a novel to make a simple (yet somehow incoherent) point.

 

Congratulations. I'm done.

 

I agree. The horse is dead, slaughtered & is being served as chop meat at the table as we speak. However, I don't know why I'm surprised at your inability to post without attack or insult or your inability to hear someone else's thoughts or opinion... afraid you might be enlightened? Perhaps I should blame your upcoming. It might explain your lack of respect, your incessant insults and your strongly publicized belief that rules are made to be broken. Is that short & sweet enough for you? The ignore button is being pushed pronto.

[Paul65]

Stopped reading after the second sentence. Next time, try not using a novel to make a simple (yet somehow incoherent) point.

 

Congratulations. I'm done.

 

I don't understand why you get so worked up that you have to resort to repeated personal attacks. ;)

[Paul65]

I agree. The horse is dead, slaughtered & is being served as chop meat at the table as we speak.

 

OK, but the important question is....what are the people at the table wearing? :D

[Kenlorz]

OK, but the important question is....what are the people at the table wearing? :D

 

Touche :D:D:D