Carnival is eliminating their topless decks...

[CaribbeanCrush]

If you need to sunbath topless and not being able to sunbath topless is going to ruin your cruise experience then you may need help. :D jc

 

And if someone else going topless ruins your cruise experience you probably need to re-evaluate too.:)

[xpcdoojk]

I didn't say that it bothered me. :rolleyes: I enjoy looking as much as the next guy, that is, if I don't get a gag reflex afterwards, or the need to cover my face while I am laughing. :eek: :D Again, how does this affect us on a RCI cruise? Why do we need to even discuss it in this forum? If you cruise Carnival there is a forum where this discussion seems more logical to me.:rolleyes:

 

jc

[funforsun]

I didn't say that it bothered me. :rolleyes: I enjoy looking as much as the next guy, that is, if I don't get a gag reflex afterwards, or the need to cover my face while I am laughing. :eek: :D Again, how does this affect us on a RCI cruise? Why do we need to even discuss it in this forum? If you cruise Carnival there is a forum where this discussion seems more logical to me.:rolleyes:

 

jc

 

Fully agree. This thread is on Carnival with 11 or probably 13 pages of posts by now.......

[CaribbeanCrush]

Again, how does this affect us on a RCI cruise? Why do we need to even discuss it in this forum? If you cruise Carnival there is a forum where this discussion seems more logical to me.:rolleyes:jc

 

Good point. Maybe we just all need to go to our happy place a.k.a. the next cruise vacation.:)

[madforcruising]

:confused: :confused: :confused:

What is the big deal in seeing naked people???

Aren´t we all looking basically the same? We came on earth all naked so what´s so :eek: about it?

I don´t say we should walk around naked all day and I respect that some might not want to go naked or look at other naked people. I just don´t understand the big deal about this.:confused:

[Boo Boo]

Aren´t we all looking basically the same? We came on earth all naked so what´s so :eek: about it?

 

No, apparently we are not... haven't you been reading?

 

Men have normal breasts and they are fine to toples sunbathe. Women have hideous breasts that were created by Satan, they shouldn't topless sunbathe and anyone who sees a woman's breasts or nipples should gouge their eyes out with a rusty nail (if children see a grown woman's breasts, then it would be just kinder to end their lives than them have to live with the guilt and horror of seeing a naked woman's breasts...) :rolleyes:

 

"Are we all the same" tsk! ;)

 

Boo

[Dremac373]

I work out and I am not that comfortable with you guys seeing my boobies :(

[dirtgirl]

Fully agree. This thread is on Carnival with 11 or probably 13 pages of posts by now.......

 

That is hardly surprising. Their 'boobie' threads can have thousands of posts and tens of thousands of hits.:rolleyes: I can't imagine what possesses people to do nothing all day but post about the "girls" and how "grateful" they are to be free.:eek:

 

On the Pride, the upper deck was not far away. It was right in front of the topless deck, giving lots of views for the teenaged boys. One guy really enjoyed the sites on the topless deck, and had to roll over onto his stomach to conceal the fact. :rolleyes:

 

I really don't care if women want to go topless or not. It is not for me, but my friend wanted to. It is the ogling that I couldn't stand!

[funforsun]

So, to discourage others from posting on this thread, I will no longer post on this RCI thread. Those who are interested, this thread on Carnival is REALLY GOOD! Go read all that and post there!

[mommabean]

But that is it - I think that men only really tend to "oggle" because they are brought up thinking how taboo women's breasts are...

 

Boo

 

Wrong. My sons are 24 and 26 years old and they will certainly oggle if women want to be oggled. They are the oldest of 4. All 4 were breast fed for 1 - 1 1/2 years - freely in the home and in public with the youngest being 10 years younger than the 26 year old. So he DOES remember learning about breasts and what they are for.

 

I also walked around in front of them naked until I realized they would really rather not see their own mother naked - this occurs at or soon after puberty in case you haven't raised any boys. I did continue to sunbath topless in our private back yard when they were teenagers. They made a point of avoiding the opportunity to look.

 

I never taught them that breasts were taboo or un-natural. Unless a parent is going to isolate their child from the media for the first 18 years of life, they will learn to see breasts as nothing but sex objects and oggle accordingly. This is a cultural fact that neither you nor I can change.

 

My sons treat women with respect as they were raised to do. And they oggle at those who flaunt themselves (as long as it's not their mother or anyone about her age or older) :) although I never raised them to do this. They are hormonally driven young men who have been influenced not just by me but by our culture.

 

I was known to attempt an oggle on my one and only Carnival cruise but there was never anyone on the topless deck to oggle at. :eek: And I was really looking forward to teaching my sister how to oggle on our upcoming Carnival cruise but it appears we will be greatly disappointed. We were going to try to figure out which ones were real and which ones were fake. ;)

[Hondu]

Must be the Righties. Men never outgrow the need for milk.

[beachchick]

I didn't say that it bothered me. :rolleyes: I enjoy looking as much as the next guy, that is, if I don't get a gag reflex afterwards, or the need to cover my face while I am laughing. :eek: :D Again, how does this affect us on a RCI cruise? Why do we need to even discuss it in this forum? If you cruise Carnival there is a forum where this discussion seems more logical to me.:rolleyes:

 

jc

 

May I assume then that you don't go au naturale at nude beaches, just in case we ladies might not enjoy your "scenery"? ;)

 

You're absolutely right that this doesn't affect RCI cruises. But then again I don't think ladies sunbathing topless affects anyone but those ladies (and perhaps their DHs or equivalent). For those who are offended (not you jc), don't go to places (or sundecks on cruise ships) that allow it. It's a choice you can make--just like changing the channel when a TV show offends you.

 

Topless sunbathing is neither trashy nor low class. It simply is a part of many cultures throughout the world.

 

beachchick

[Boo Boo]

Wrong. My sons are 24 and 26 years old and they will certainly oggle if women want to be oggled. They are the oldest of 4. All 4 were breast fed for 1 - 1 1/2 years - freely in the home and in public with the youngest being 10 years younger than the 26 year old. So he DOES remember learning about breasts and what they are for.

 

I also walked around in front of them naked until I realized they would really rather not see their own mother naked - this occurs at or soon after puberty in case you haven't raised any boys. I did continue to sunbath topless in our private back yard when they were teenagers. They made a point of avoiding the opportunity to look.

 

I never taught them that breasts were taboo or un-natural. Unless a parent is going to isolate their child from the media for the first 18 years of life, they will learn to see breasts as nothing but sex objects and oggle accordingly. This is a cultural fact that neither you nor I can change.

 

My sons treat women with respect as they were raised to do. And they oggle at those who flaunt themselves (as long as it's not their mother or anyone about her age or older) :) although I never raised them to do this. They are hormonally driven young men who have been influenced not just by me but by our culture.

 

And it sounds as though you brought them up great. However, as you say it is the cultural aspect you are battling... Yes, they are used to seeing your boobs, but you are their mother - and those (apart from boobs in a "sex object way" - like men's magazines, adult films) are the only boobs that they have seen. That is why, at puberty, they become embarrassed of your boobs - they are suddenly thrust into a world where boobs are just sex objects: so they don't want to be looking at their mum's...

 

I your kids grew up in a culture where topless sunbathing was pretty common and they grew up regularly seeing women's breasts (other than their mother's), then I am pretty that oggling would be LESS of an issue. But, as I said before, boys/men will ALWAYS oggle at a beautiful woman - whether she is topless or not. If a nice, slim 19 year old wearing a bikini walks past in one direction and a woman their mother's age, 3 stone overweight and topless walks past in the other direction - I know where I would guess your sons would be oggling...

 

We were going to try to figure out which ones were real and which ones were fake. ;)

 

It doesn't take much to tell ;)

 

Boo

[mommabean]

And it sounds as though you brought them up great. However, as you say it is the cultural aspect you are battling... Yes, they are used to seeing your boobs, but you are their mother - and those (apart from boobs in a "sex object way" - like men's magazines, adult films) are the only boobs that they have seen. That is why, at puberty, they become embarrassed of your boobs - they are suddenly thrust into a world where boobs are just sex objects: so they don't want to be looking at their mum's...

 

I your kids grew up in a culture where topless sunbathing was pretty common and they grew up regularly seeing women's breasts (other than their mother's), then I am pretty that oggling would be LESS of an issue. But, as I said before, boys/men will ALWAYS oggle at a beautiful woman - whether she is topless or not. If a nice, slim 19 year old wearing a bikini walks past in one direction and a woman their mother's age, 3 stone overweight and topless walks past in the other direction - I know where I would guess your sons would be oggling...

 

It doesn't take much to tell ;)

 

Boo

 

You make very good points. I understand exactly what you are saying. I've highlighted a few things in red that I want to address.

 

Just to clarify, my boys had seen a few other breasts while growing up. My sister and I were just talking about how it seems like just yesterday that my boys were little and used to go outside with her to take a shower at our house - we were sort of poor and only had an ourdoor shower on a deck. They'd run around and play on the deck, when she'd step out to wash her hair, they'd hop under as if it was just as natural to shower with her as it was with me. This didn't happen beyond the preschool age.

 

I've always loved the shows on TV that show the women from New Guinea (or similar places) going about their daily lives with nothing to cover their breasts. The kids all saw their share of these shows. The Travel Channel still shows some great shows where the men wear these cones wrapped around their penises and they are tied up around their waists sometimes showing what is set just below. :) The kids all saw these shows just as I did when I was young. When I was a little girl I was fascinated with National Geographic magazine, too. And all of my friends tended to breast feed their babies openly when we were all raising our families. So, as you can see, it wasn't just my breasts they saw.

 

It gets back to the media concerning the second point. Men oggle at beautiful breasts? It's only natural? Where do they almost all get this idea that firm large breasts are the only beautiful ones? We know that's what the vast majority think? (I didn't say all since I know there are a few who like small but perky ones. I just doubt there are any who like the droppy ones that point downward.) They still learn the idea of beauty from the media. Even the magazines in Europe that are right out there in front at all the news stands only show the big firm ones on the cover. This is a shame.

 

The person from Germany said we are look the same, don't we? Obviously not or we'd all be considered to be beautiful no matter the size or shape of our breasts.

 

Third point. It doesn't take much to tell? In some cases that depends on the doctor who did the surgery and the size the woman has chosen for her augmentation. :)

 

The main point is that it's totally impossible to change a culture over night. I wonder if the cruise lines are feeling the heat for any potential assaults due to public toplessness just as they seem to think that drunks falling overboard will be curtailed if they limit drinking to those 21 and over. It won't change anything but they may feel it limits their liability for claims of the cruise lines encouraging such behavior with their policies.

 

I'm not convinced that Carnival has really eliminated the topless optional deck. I'll check it out in April. ;)

[Boo Boo]

Mommabean, you are a joy to talk to :)

 

Your boys were obviously brought up in a very good way - naturally and sensibly. It makes sense, as you said before, that they treat women with respect.

 

I think the other thing, when boys reach puberty, that increases their tendency to oggle (in addition to hormones) is probably peer pressure... Dragging my memory back to my puberty I remember that boys EXPECTED other boys to oggle (and sometimes grab :mad: ) or they would taunt them mercilesslessly for being "gay". Children can be nasty little... (I assume things haven't changed that much since I went through puberty - the late 80s). So sometimes teenage boys feel that it is not only socially acceptable, but actually a requirement to oggle at both beautiful women and bear breasts.

 

You are completely right - every breast is not the same. Another reason why I support topless bathing. Many girls/women (including even me) have a very mis-informed impression of what a "normal" breast should look like - as you say, through tv/films/magazines, most of us think that breasts should be large and round. I honestly feel this is ONE of the things that convinces a lot of women (of all ages) to have cosmetic surgery on their breasts. If we had a more realistic idea of what breasts looked like, then maybe we could learn to appreciate our own bodies a lot more. I suppose that if the only women who topless sunbathe ARE the ones who have fake breasts, then maybe topless sunbathing wouldn't be a possitive influence... ;)

 

From what I have seen, the current "fashion" for fake breasts seems - at least on the young - to be the "obviously fake" (i.e. BIG, VERY ROUND, freakish looking things). I really can't understand that and sure hope, like other fashions, it passes. I think that cosmetic surgery has it's place, but I think that is said that some young women feel compelled to do something freakish (when they have beautiful and well balanced bodies to beging with...)

 

With topless sunbathing, if a woman is lying on her back, it is normally quite easy to tell if they are fake because they tend to "stick up more" (in a spephrical way) than if they were natural.

 

I think that you are right as to WHY the ban is happening (if it is happening) - liability and lawsuits...

 

Boo

 

You make very good points. I understand exactly what you are saying. I've highlighted a few things in red that I want to address.

 

Just to clarify, my boys had seen a few other breasts while growing up. My sister and I were just talking about how it seems like just yesterday that my boys were little and used to go outside with her to take a shower at our house - we were sort of poor and only had an ourdoor shower on a deck. They'd run around and play on the deck, when she'd step out to wash her hair, they'd hop under as if it was just as natural to shower with her as it was with me. This didn't happen beyond the preschool age.

 

I've always loved the shows on TV that show the women from New Guinea (or similar places) going about their daily lives with nothing to cover their breasts. The kids all saw their share of these shows. The Travel Channel still shows some great shows where the men wear these cones wrapped around their penises and they are tied up around their waists sometimes showing what is set just below. :) The kids all saw these shows just as I did when I was young. When I was a little girl I was fascinated with National Geographic magazine, too. And all of my friends tended to breast feed their babies openly when we were all raising our families. So, as you can see, it wasn't just my breasts they saw.

 

It gets back to the media concerning the second point. Men oggle at beautiful breasts? It's only natural? Where do they almost all get this idea that firm large breasts are the only beautiful ones? We know that's what the vast majority think? (I didn't say all since I know there are a few who like small but perky ones. I just doubt there are any who like the droppy ones that point downward.) They still learn the idea of beauty from the media. Even the magazines in Europe that are right out there in front at all the news stands only show the big firm ones on the cover. This is a shame.

 

The person from Germany said we are look the same, don't we? Obviously not or we'd all be considered to be beautiful no matter the size or shape of our breasts.

 

Third point. It doesn't take much to tell? In some cases that depends on the doctor who did the surgery and the size the woman has chosen for her augmentation. :)

 

The main point is that it's totally impossible to change a culture over night. I wonder if the cruise lines are feeling the heat for any potential assaults due to public toplessness just as they seem to think that drunks falling overboard will be curtailed if they limit drinking to those 21 and over. It won't change anything but they may feel it limits their liability for claims of the cruise lines encouraging such behavior with their policies.

 

I'm not convinced that Carnival has really eliminated the topless optional deck. I'll check it out in April.

[mommabean]

Boo,

 

I agree with what you just said completely. As parents it's always hard to find the balance between too much and too little exposure for our children in today's world. And that includes more than just breasts.

 

With the intrusiveness of today's society in our lives, those of us who let our kids climb into our beds past the age of 2 just to hang out with us or cuddle have to fear being accused of abuse should anyone find out.

 

I still wish men including my boys didn't feel compelled to oggle. :)

[Boo Boo]

With the intrusiveness of today's society in our lives, those of us who let our kids climb into our beds past the age of 2 just to hang out with us or cuddle have to fear being accused of abuse should anyone find out.

 

Very sad, isn't it? Some people in society can't seperate "sex" from "children", so all of society is tarred with the same brush... I 200% support child protection, but I wish that we could have a safe society that could understand and support the difference between appropriate and inappropriate touching. We live in a mad world :(

 

I still wish men including my boys didn't feel compelled to oggle. :)

 

I am sure that oggling will be a liable offence within 50 years and people will be able to sue ogglers for millions of dollars in "emotional damage" ;)

 

If that doesn't happen, I doubt that boys/men will EVER stop oggling. I do a lot of sports and tend to get oggled in t-shirt and shorts... Unless women start wearing yashmaks (sp?) - as in the more extreme Middle Eastern cultures - I doubt that we will get rid of men oggling. And I don't fancy going down that path... :(

 

At the moment, Ogglees (people who get oggled) have a number of choice:

- ignore it

- take it as a compliment

- cover up or hide away more

- or make a wise crack comment at the oggler...

 

Boo

[xpcdoojk]

May I assume then that you don't go au naturale at nude beaches, just in case we ladies might not enjoy your "scenery"? ;)

 

You're absolutely right that this doesn't affect RCI cruises. But then again I don't think ladies sunbathing topless affects anyone but those ladies (and perhaps their DHs or equivalent). For those who are offended (not you jc), don't go to places (or sundecks on cruise ships) that allow it. It's a choice you can make--just like changing the channel when a TV show offends you.

 

Topless sunbathing is neither trashy nor low class. It simply is a part of many cultures throughout the world.

 

beachchick

 

We don't have a lot of nude beaches where I live and since, I am not a layout person anyway, and I tend to sunburn easily, therefore walking with my twig and bits exposed doesn't hold a lot of appeal for me. I do remember skinny dipping in my youth with both sexes present. I am not sure I would scare anyone if I went au naturale at a nude beach, but I am fairly certain, I would not have a bunch of beautiful young ladies giving me their phone number. ;)

 

jc:D

[Joopman]

If you've got it . . . flaunt it.

I guess if you don't have it . . . then protest it.

Jeez . . . the ships are for everyone's entertainment . . . not just yours.

No one makes you go to the topless deck. That is the key . . . it is optional . . . just like wearing a moo-moo.

The elimination of this "option" only affects those that took advantage of it. It IN NO WAY affected the entertainment of those who didn't (or couldn't) take advantage of it.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm for a weight-limit on cruise ships. It won't affect me, but if it eliminates your entertainment, then that would make me happy.

The above statement sounds so stupid, egotistical, and wrong.

DO YOU GET IT???

--------------------------------------------------------------------

I REALLY know why you are against it . . . Don't I???

[Joopman]

Duplicate . . . sorry

[Boo Boo]

Again, how does this affect us on a RCI cruise? Why do we need to even discuss it in this forum? If you cruise Carnival there is a forum where this discussion seems more logical to me.:rolleyes:

 

In a way, I think it IS relevent to RCCL... if I followed my own wargument to it's FULLEST extent - that women should have the same rights as men - then women should be able to unbathe topless ANYWHERE that men can, if they so choose.

 

So, if men can sunbathe topless on any deck of a RCCL ship... :)

 

I am honestly NOT trying to be facetious here, I just truly believe that women should be entitled to the same things as men (the right to vote, the right to equal pay, the right to sunbathe topless if they choose...).

 

I don't think that is extremist.

 

Boo

[Boo Boo]

Again, how does this affect us on a RCI cruise? Why do we need to even discuss it in this forum? If you cruise Carnival there is a forum where this discussion seems more logical to me.:rolleyes:

 

In a way, I think it IS relevent to RCCL... if I followed my own argument to it's FULLEST extent - that women should have the same rights as men - then women should be able to unbathe topless ANYWHERE that men can, if they so choose.

 

So, if men can sunbathe topless on any deck of a RCCL ship... :)

 

I am honestly NOT trying to be facetious here, I just truly believe that women should be entitled to the same things as men (the right to vote, the right to equal pay, the right to sunbathe topless if they choose...).

 

I don't think that is extremist.

 

Boo

[xpcdoojk]

I see.:rolleyes: We have a free the breasts crusade going on. :rolleyes: Whatever makes your day.:D I just love crusades and crusaders, and like sand they are mostly unpleasant when they attach themselves to a persons delicate parts. :D

 

Now that I know how relevant to the RCI forum this topic is, I happily withdraw all of my comments regarding why discuss this here. I don't want to stand in the way of such an important moral crusade!!!!!

 

jc

[mommabean]

Now that I know how relevant to the RCI forum this topic is, I happily withdraw all of my comments regarding why discuss this here. I don't want to stand in the way of such an important moral crusade!!!!!

 

jc

 

You have been easily convinced. ;)

 

Next thing you know, you will be going topless, too! :eek: :D

[beachchick]

We don't have a lot of nude beaches where I live and since, I am not a layout person anyway, and I tend to sunburn easily, therefore walking with my twig and bits exposed doesn't hold a lot of appeal for me. I do remember skinny dipping in my youth with both sexes present. I am not sure I would scare anyone if I went au naturale at a nude beach, but I am fairly certain, I would not have a bunch of beautiful young ladies giving me their phone number. ;)

 

jc:D

 

:D Now that's a new one for me. Perfect.

 

I'm not one to just lie there and crisp in the sun (covered or uncovered) because (1) it's boring and (2) I don't want to burn--and certainly not those parts. The only time I enjoy lounging in a lounge is if I have a nice big umbrella or cabana for shade.

 

beachchick

 

p.s. You never know...the ladies might like your twig and bits.;)