FOOD - Questions for doctors & lawyers

[troywest]

Increasingly, cruise lines are cutting food and beverage costs. It's part of a "race to the bottom" that all mid-priced lines seem to be following, because consumers are demanding a cheaper cruise product.

 

BUT I'm troubled by some of the results. While no health threat is posed by using coffee concentrate instead of brewed coffee; and (other then the bad taste) there's probably little risk in the "orange juice drink" that some lines falsely label as "orange juice;" or the "lemon flavored drink" that contains no lemon juice, and that many lines (but not Princess which does not offer lemonade) falsely label as "lemonade;" I wonder at the risk -if any- posed by all of the frozen Chinese seafood used by cruise lines.

 

Many countries have banned the importation of Chinese seafood -especially some farm raised species. Much of that seafood is said in news articles to be tainted with heavy metals and / or antibiotics.

 

Question for doctors: Is there any real risk to eating the frozen Chinese seafood two or three times a year on one or two week cruises?

 

Question for lawyers: If a ship flagged in the Bahamas sails from Civitavecchia, whose laws (if any) regulate the food that can be taken aboard? Is there any consumer protection? Can they legally label something as "orange juice" if it is not?

 

Food for thought - no pun intended

[ancldaca]

Interesting topic.

 

My overall guess is that admiralty law would be involved here to some extend but mainly the respective laws of the flags of convenience (Bahamas, Liberia, Panama, etc.).

[wcyellin]

With the possible exception of farm raised shrimp or catfish (if it is offered), I wouldn't worry too much about the occasional consumption of Chinese seafood.

 

So called "sensitive populations" (women of childbearing age, pregnant women, nursing mothers and children younger than 15 years of age) may wish to consult with a professional before eating large quantities of some Chinese farm raised or predator marine species.

 

Remember, there are advisories against eating too much of certain domestic U.S. fish, as well. Salmon caught in Lake Michigan may contain PCB's - See, for example:

 

http://www.idph.state.il.us/envhealth/fishadv/fishadvisory02.html

[robtx100]

I was just sitting here wondering if the seafood imported from China for cruise ships is safe, considering all the trouble with toys, dog food, and toothpaste from China. I think I'll do some research, but will keep checking back here, too.

[smeyer418]

its not just seafood. I was shopping at a local supermarket(Fairway if you need to know) and I needed frozen cauliflower...now you would think when its says Wisconsin best it would be from the Midwest but no its label"made in China" and I was at my favorite Middle eastern specialty store(run by a very nice Lebanese Christian its closed on Sunday) and I needed Pine nuts....well they are made in two Places Spain at $25.00 per pound and China for $10.00...so its really gotten bad that even vegetables are cheaper from China!

[Crown Prince]

http://www.amazon.com/River-Runs-Black-Environmental-Challenge/dp/0801489784

 

Editorial Reviews

 

Book Description

China’s spectacular economic growth over the past two decades has dramatically depleted the country’s natural resources and produced skyrocketing rates of pollution. Environmental degradation in China has also contributed to significant public health problems, mass migration, economic loss, and social unrest. In The River Runs Black, Elizabeth C. Economy examines China’s growing environmental crisis and its implications for the country’s future development.

Drawing on historical research, case studies, and interviews with officials, scholars, and activists in China, Economy traces the economic and political roots of China’s environmental challenge and the evolution of the leadership's response. She argues that China’s current approach to environmental protection mirrors the one embraced for economic development: devolving authority to local officials, opening the door to private actors, and inviting participation from the international community, while retaining only weak central control. The result has been a patchwork of environmental protection in which a few wealthy regions with strong leaders and international ties improve their local environments, while most of the country continues to deteriorate, sometimes suffering irrevocable damage. Economy compares China’s response with the experience of other societies and sketches out several possible futures for the country.

 

From the Inside Flap

"Elizabeth C. Economy’s book hits my ‘Top Ten’ list from the day it is published. It is a clear and compelling reminder that no engagement with China--commercial, diplomatic, cultural, intellectual--can afford to ignore China’s vast environmental dilemmas and the deep social, economic, and political structural problems that make environmental salvation an uncertain enterprise at best. The case for international engagement with China emerges even more strongly from this book; the case for ‘irrational exuberance’ is dashed to smithereens."--Robert A. Kapp, President, US-China Business Council

"Rivers run black, deserts advance from the north, and smoky haze covers the country. Elizabeth C. Economy both provides a gripping account of a severely degraded environment and thoughtfully analyzes what could be China's most important challenge in the twenty-first century."—Gordon G. Chang, author of The Coming Collapse of China "Elizabeth C. Economy captures extraordinarily well the complex historical, systemic, political, economic, and international forces that are shaping China’s environmental outcomes. No other volume on this enormously important issue is as comprehensive, balanced, and incisive. True to her deep understanding of the crosscurrents of China's present environmental efforts, Economy is agnostic about which of three startlingly different futures will come to pass. Her book enables us to understand both the potential for each of these futures and the means to lessen the chances of environmental meltdown on the Chinese mainland."—Kenneth Lieberthal, Professor of Political Science and Professor of International Business at the University of Michigan

[smeyer418]

I have been to China. The Yangtze was the most polluted water that I have even seen, and you could cut the air with a knife- the result of all those coal fired plants....but it was about the same as the US in the 50's. While environmentalists complain about the three gorges dam, one of its purposes to replace many coal fired plants. The Chinese had started to try to make people recognize that throwing things in the water was wrong. Sounds not unlike the US of the '60's.

 

India, Russia and other places aren't much better.

 

The problem with China is that it is moving ahead so fast some controls just haven't made it in yet. In many ways its economy is like the US at the turn of the century(the last one not this one) when the robber barons were in charge...although they made a comeback here.

 

As long as I am rambling this is also my biggest complaint against Walmart. When Sam was there he was big on Buy American. Walmart is the single largest trading partner with China. Thank you Walmart.

[westwind6371]

Yes, an interesting topic, but perhaps out of place on the. Princess board. No indication that any Chinese products are served as food on Princess. I am not saying that they are not, but this a more generic topic, that may be more appropriate on another thread. The thread seems to assume that there is contaminated food served on Princess.

 

Let's stick to topics related to Princess on the Princess thread.

 

fair winds

Dave

[Crown Prince]

I have been to China. The Yangtze was the most polluted water that I have even seen, and you could cut the air with a knife- the result of all those coal fired plants....but it was about the same as the US in the 50's. While environmentalists complain about the three gorges dam, one of its purposes to replace many coal fired plants. The Chinese had started to try to make people recognize that throwing things in the water was wrong. Sounds not unlike the US of the '60's.

The problem with China is that it is moving ahead so fast some controls just haven't made it in yet. In many ways its economy is like the US at the turn of the century(the last one not this one) when the robber barons were in charge, although they made a comeback here.

 

I, also, was in Beijing & Xian last October for > a week, as well as ports of Dalien and Shanghai (Sapphire Princess). ;)

 

After reading this book (and having visited SPb the year before) I realize that it is the old Mafia Payola schemes at work.

Even though Laws have been enacted, when the Inspectors come, things are hidden (or closed down), money or valuables change hands, and then these Factory Polluters remain open to run their Junk into the air, waterways, & ground. :mad:

 

Don't forget, many of these Countries are still run by the COMMUNISTS!!! :eek:

[troywest]

It does appear that for ships calling at US ports, the CDC has some food safety regulations and requirements. See:

 

http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/operationsmanual/OPSManual2005.pdf

(starting at page 53)

 

Section 7.3.2 appears to relate to sources for on-board food, and seems to require that the food comes from approved vendors. However, the regulations -in many respects- appear to defer to the "source country."

 

This may well mean that the Chinese are in control.

[smeyer418]

.....

 

Don't forget, many of these Countries are still run by the COMMUNISTS!!! :eek:

If China is run by communists its the strangest form of communism I have even seen. There is almost no safety net. People are selling things on practically every corner and no one buys at the state stores that have set prices because the same goods are available for 1/2 the price(or less) at other places. We covered over three thousand miles in the interior of country...Saw poverty, a women run over by a bus and saw a very lawless but in other ways very safe country(a paradox isn't). People violate the health laws to make money. It has a capitalist heart in a country where the people admire America-one of the few left. Many remember that we fought with them to defeat the still hated Japanese. Chopquin (formerly Chunking) has an American Military Cemetery. I didn't see this on a ship which in my opinion will give you a very jaded view of China. But the controls on food that we are used to just don't exist what is the equivalent of the wild west. Where is Wyatt Earp when you need him?

 

PS I have no doubt none whatsoever that China raised sea food is on the ship.

[smeyer418]

double post

[Crown Prince]

I agree with you.

 

I don't eat much seafood. I guess that is a good thing.

 

The only thing you can buy in those "Friendly" stores (the State stores) that cannot be bought on the street - and the price is the same in every store - is the 2008 Beijing Olympic Collectibles.

Wish I had bought more. Love the Gold Coin framed pictures. Nice gifts for the grandkids.

Of course, if it is the Olympic t-shirts & ball hats, those are $4 on the street - good quality too. ;)

Sure glad we went before 2008. I shall go back, some day. So many places in the world await our visits. :D