So Much for Honesty!

[Onessa]

I also skipped a grade, and found the same thing. . . . It sounds like such a good idea, and you think your child might need it so that they don't get bored, and of course, there's that pride that goes with having an advanced learner... but the social experience of school is so important also, and even a one year gap can make all the difference.

 

. . . There is no up-side to progressing through the grades more quickly, but there's a nasty down-side.

 

Unfortunately for too many schools the only way to accommodate excellerated learners is through promotion. It is sad. My DD's school has suggested promoting her an extra grade level a couple of times, but her teachers who know her better, have always discouraged it (socially it would KILL her -- she's very shy and self-concious) and have come up with some great ways for her to get what she needs out of classes. Right now she is finishing up 7th grade math with an advanced independent studies group of kids from 6th, 7th and 8th grade; and they have carved out a group of 16 6th graders into their own reading class -- yet she is in Science, Social Studies, band, art and (most importantly) gym with her regular age group.

 

They also recognized the limitation of the disctrict's standardized testing and by-passed the "MAPS" testing for this group -- They still needed to do the NCLB standardized testing, but took the Explorer test (the middle school version of the ACT) in liue of the other testing -- there were about 12 kids who had maxed out the MAPS testing.

 

All of these types of steps takes fore-thought and money on the part of the school district, but I really appreciate what they are able to do.

[CanadianTwosome]

There's always more than one way to look at things. You could just as easily say:

 

Those who are against taking their kids out of school are the ones most often thinking of the impact on the teachers and the school.

 

Those who support taking their kids out of school generally only think about themselves.

 

I don't particularly agree with either generalization, but I do think you were being just as judgemental as you were accusing others of being.

 

I see your point here, but I'm not in full agreement. As I said, I can see where you're drawing your comparison... I just think it's flawed. Angel may have sounded like she was judging people in her observation, but if you go through the posts, that observation was valid and objective. She didn't make assumptions about how people thought or felt, only that the posts advocating taking children out of school were generally supportive of parents making their own choices, while the ones against it were more inclined to sound as if parents should just abide by someone else's choices. So... to me it wasn't judgemental, it was just an observation.

 

On the other hand, the statements that you used (which you also qualified by saying that you don't necessarily agree with them, so I realize they are just examples) are definitely judgemental, because they make assumptions about people. As a parent that feels comfortable taking my child out of school for short periods of time, I absolutely do not take for granted the impact her absence will have on her teacher. My husband and I expect to put extra effort into minimizing that impact.

 

As for only thinking of ourselves, well, I think there are very few humans in this world who can claim that they never think of themselves first. An argument could be made that the posters who protest are also thinking only of themselves - in that they believe their opinion to be the right one and everyone else should just go along with it. I really can't say, although I will say that I make an effort to think about how any decisions I make will affect others. When I plan a vacation, I admit to being a little selfish... but other than missionaries, aren't most people? We plan to go when it is most convenient to us (even those that travel only during school holidays plan their trips around the dates that work for them and their personal feelings on missing school :) ), to where we want to go, for how long we want to go, and at a cost we're willing to pay. That doesn't mean we think only of ourselves year round, but vacations are costly; I expect people to want to make the most of their travel dollars and focus on what is going to make them happy! What I think SweetAngel was driving at is that she and I (and all the posters who support a parent's right to choose - some of which do not feel comfortable taking their own children out of school) believe everyone is entitled to make those choices for themselves.

 

Basically, my whole point here is that I found SweetAngel's statements more objective - they were simply based on reading the posts and counting up the opinions that were expressed, and that the comparative statements were much more subjective and designed to generalize in a negative way (which I think was the point). If SweetAngel's statements sound negative to people, then in my opinion, they should make an effort to objectively think about how they feel about freedom of choice. If you're against it, then you shouldn't be offended by what SweetAngel said because you think it's okay to impose your beliefs and choices on others... if you're for it, then your post likely wasn't one that she was referring to in a 'negative' way.

 

I just wanted to add, also, that if you don't believe individuals should have the freedom to make their own choices for themselves and their children, that's absolutely okay with me. Part of being supportive of freedom of choice means that I believe everyone is entitled to their own opinions. There will never be a consensus on this subject or most others that involve personal opinions and choices, and sometimes it's very difficult to see someone making a choice that you feel is wrong. A very wise American once said, 'I may not agree with what he's saying, but I will fight to the death to protect his right to say it.' (please forgive me if I didn't get that exactly right). Now just translate that idea to freedom of speech and you'll have a pretty good idea of my personal viewpoint on personal choice. :)

[MakinGold]

Angel may have sounded like she was judging people in her observation, but if you go through the posts, that observation was valid and objective. She didn't make assumptions about how people thought or felt, only that the posts advocating taking children out of school were generally supportive of parents making their own choices, while the ones against it were more inclined to sound as if parents should just abide by someone else's choices. So... to me it wasn't judgemental, it was just an observation.

 

On the other hand, the statements that you used (which you also qualified by saying that you don't necessarily agree with them, so I realize they are just examples) are definitely judgemental, because they make assumptions about people. As a parent that feels comfortable taking my child out of school for short periods of time, I absolutely do not take for granted the impact her absence will have on her teacher. My husband and I expect to put extra effort into minimizing that impact.

 

I would disagree with you here. Some of the posts come across as Angel portrays them, but not all. In the same way, I think some of the posts come across as I portrayed them, but not all. Many posters have shown an apparent lack of concern for anything other than what they think is best for their child, without showing any apparent appreciation for the effect it may have on others in the school. I think my comments can be supported by looking at the posts here just as well as Angels, but believe that both would be inaccurate generalizations.

[CanadianTwosome]

Unfortunately for too many schools the only way to accommodate excellerated learners is through promotion. It is sad. My DD's school has suggested promoting her an extra grade level a couple of times, but her teachers who know her better, have always discouraged it (socially it would KILL her -- she's very shy and self-concious) and have come up with some great ways for her to get what she needs out of classes. Right now she is finishing up 7th grade math with an advanced independent studies group of kids from 6th, 7th and 8th grade; and they have carved out a group of 16 6th graders into their own reading class -- yet she is in Science, Social Studies, band, art and (most importantly) gym with her regular age group.

 

They also recognized the limitation of the disctrict's standardized testing and by-passed the "MAPS" testing for this group -- They still needed to do the NCLB standardized testing, but took the Explorer test (the middle school version of the ACT) in liue of the other testing -- there were about 12 kids who had maxed out the MAPS testing.

 

All of these types of steps takes fore-thought and money on the part of the school district, but I really appreciate what they are able to do.

 

You've made a wise choice, in my opinion. My elementary school also attempted to provide additional programming for a small group of us. I have to explain, also, that my case, being excellerated was a little different - I was moved ahead without proper consultation with my mother, and when I talked about it, she thought I had been moved to a split grade and that I had misunderstood. She would not have approved the move if she'd been given the opportunity, but by the time parent-teacher meetings took place, I was well into the second grade. (it had to do with people knowing our family, the recent death of my father, and wanting to 'help' without adding pressure to my mom's situation) Okay, now I can continue on! :)

 

As I continued through elementary school, I did find many subjects boring - most in fact. As I said, a group of us were selected for some extra instruction, but since it was a bit of a pilot project, it was kind of a mess. Nobody had a clear idea of how to approach the situation. Still, it did provide us with a little distraction and some interaction with our more academically inclined peers. The only other option would have been to push us ahead - which would have meant two years between me and my classmates instead of only one, and that one was bad enough! It may not seem like much, and as adults, it really isn't... but when you're in a constant state of development, an entire year of experience is huge.

 

My husband was more fortunate. He's four years behind me and from another city, and by the time he was assessed, they had a specialized program. From early elementary all the way through high school, he was with the same group, attending classes that gave them advanced exposure to all subjects, as well as to subjects not in a 'usual' course of study. In my opinion, his experience was the best of the choices, with extra curriculum a close second. My last choice would be excelleration; I just think there are too many social ramifications.

[CanadianTwosome]

I would disagree with you here. Some of the posts come across as Angel portrays them, but not all. In the same way, I think some of the posts come across as I portrayed them, but not all. Many posters have shown an apparent lack of concern for anything other than what they think is best for their child, without showing any apparent appreciation for the effect it may have on others in the school. I think my comments can be supported by looking at the posts here just as well as Angels, but believe that both would be inaccurate generalizations.

 

I think you missed my point. When I say SweetAngel's observations were more objective, I simply mean that if you go through the posts, you will find the phrase (or some facsimile) 'parents should make their own choices' more often in the pro-missing school posts than in the against missing school posts, and you will find phrases more like 'nobody should ever...' or 'you should just follow the rules' in more of the against than the for. That's it in a nutshell. I don't see her making that observation as being judgemental; just as a direct observation of what posters actually said.

 

The statements that you created (as I said, I understand you made them negative on purpose) were based on how people might feel when reading or writing posts, and so are not objective. Aside from someone like me who goes on and on and on in an attempt to be absolutely clear about my feelings (sorry!), it really isn't possible to say anything about how most posters feel or think. Very often, information that might seem important to a reader is left out by the poster because they don't think it relevant. In my first posts in this thread, I did not discuss what I felt our responsibilities were towards our daughter's school and teachers, but clearly there are readers who, because of that, though that I didn't think of them at all. Nothing could be further from the truth, I just didn't think that was part of the discussion, so I didn't mention it until I saw that people were making the wrong assumptions.

 

I hope I've been more clear now... I just don't think objective and subjective statements make for good comparison.

[CanadianTwosome]

You're wrong on that last post C-T. The statements I presented are based on what people wrote in their posts, not on my assumptions of how they might "feel." You've totally missed my point.

 

Btw, there really aren't that many posts that use phrases like "nobody should ever" or "you should just follow the rules." People like SweetAngel see a few comments like that and then make judgements about those who are not in favor of pulling their kids out of school.

 

If I'm wrong, please show me the posts where people have stated that they do not care about teachers or how they affect them. I'm talking about a clear statement where a poster says 'I don't care about how my actions affect teachers.' If you cannot show me that, then yes, your statement is an assumption, not an observation. Your interpretation of what people are saying is based on your opinion, your personal feelings on the matter, and how you see the other person based on what you're reading. Feel free to argue semantics with me, but part of that perception, in my opinion, includes how you assume them to feel about the subject. Stating that a group of people don't care about how they affect others is a direct statement about their feelings, so I'm not sure how I'm wrong in thinking assumptions are being made about those feelings... Again, I'll be happy to acquiesce if I've missed any posts where people state that they don't care about the teachers.

 

Suggesting that a group of people cares only about themselves is also a generalized assumption about peoples' feelings. (caring is a feeling)

 

The statements I alluded to were not direct quotes, but if you really want me to, I will weed through the posts and find some that will show you what I'm talking about. I would rather not spend the time doing it, but if it's the only way to get my point across, I will do it. Counting direct statements that say 'you should choose' vs. 'you should do what I/someone else thinks is right' is objective. Assuming peoples' feelings or motivations is not. I am not making any claims as to whether the statements hit the mark for any posters, I'm simply saying that I don't think assumptions should be used to support any argument.

[MakinGold]

If I'm wrong, please show me the posts where people have stated that they do not care about teachers or how they affect them. I'm talking about a clear statement where a poster says 'I don't care about how my actions affect teachers.' If you cannot show me that, then yes, your statement is an assumption, not an observation. Your interpretation of what people are saying is based on your opinion, your personal feelings on the matter, and how you see the other person based on what you're reading. Feel free to argue semantics with me, but part of that perception, in my opinion, includes how you assume them to feel about the subject. Stating that a group of people don't care about how they affect others is a direct statement about their feelings, so I'm not sure how I'm wrong in thinking assumptions are being made about those feelings... Again, I'll be happy to acquiesce if I've missed any posts where people state that they don't care about the teachers.

 

Suggesting that a group of people cares only about themselves is also a generalized assumption about peoples' feelings. (caring is a feeling)

 

The statements I alluded to were not direct quotes, but if you really want me to, I will weed through the posts and find some that will show you what I'm talking about. I would rather not spend the time doing it, but if it's the only way to get my point across, I will do it. Counting direct statements that say 'you should choose' vs. 'you should do what I/someone else thinks is right' is objective. Assuming peoples' feelings or motivations is not. I am not making any claims as to whether the statements hit the mark for any posters, I'm simply saying that I don't think assumptions should be used to support any argument.

 

Ah, maybe now you're starting to get the catch 22, because someone who thinks only of themselves is not likely to mention how their actions might affect the teachers. Similarly, someone who thinks doing whatever you want is OK is not likely to be telling others to honor the rules.

[MakinGold]

I've had about enough of the argument, though. I believe most all of the posters in the thread were pretty thoughful and balanced regardless of which side of the issue they fell on. I thought it was an off-base judgement that the earlier poster made, trying to paint those who oppose pulling kids out of school as being the type who like to tell others what to do. There've been a few like that, just as there've been a few who posted self-centered, no one can tell me what to do type opinions.

[mark3232]

When we took our child out of school for a week to go on a cruise, it was our choice and we did not consider the teacher or anyone else. Our child learned a lot that week and may have missed out on something that week in class. I don’t care one way or another.

 

On that cruise there were several kids the same age as ours and you sort to get to know the parents a little. One thing that was said to us more than once was the fact that the only way they could afford to take a child on a cruise is during the school year. Just check the prices during the summer and school holidays, they double and then some.

 

It’s easy to get up on a soap box and talk about rules and such. We all have different views on what the big picture is and right or wrong. It seems like with this tread, some people have taken their personal views too far and let their emotions out to prove their point.

 

My point is... we went on the cruise last year and my child still talks about it. In my book that was an educational experience. I can’t recall one entire week of school that ever comes up in a conversation.

[CanadianTwosome]

Ah, maybe now you're starting to get the catch 22, because someone who thinks only of themselves is not likely to mention how their actions might affect the teachers. Similarly, someone who thinks doing whatever you want is OK is not likely to be telling others to honor the rules.

 

I realize you say you're finished with this, but I just wanted to point out that this statement supports what I've been saying. There is no 'catch 22' because I didn't say you were wrong (unlike you, I don't presume to make those judgements), what I said was that subjective statements based on assumptions, in my opinion, do not provide a good argument. By explaining this 'catch 22' idea to me, you have just stated quite clearly that you don't have any factual support for your statements - which was my point!!!

 

On the other hand, I did go back and reread the entire thread. I found multiple posts expressing the idea that parents should make their own choices - some of which were expressed by people who do not agree with children being taken out of school but most from the people who did. I found a lot less statements in which people expressed ideas more like 'you should follow the rules because they're right' (not a direct quote).

 

I also wanted to add that I found NO posts that suggested even slightly that the parents didn't care about how teachers were affected, nor that they didn't appreciate the work teachers did for them. I found many that stated just the opposite, in fact.

 

My perception of your posts is that you are against taking kids out of school, you think anyone who does is selfish and does not care how their actions affect anyone else, and that you make emotional assumptions and expect people to accept them as fact. Am I right? I'll bet I'm not... and I exaggerated this description to (hopefully) make a point. I don't know you and I can't make any assumptions about what you think or feel, I can only interpret the text in your messages. If I wanted to, though, I could look at all your posts and say 'MakinGold is one of the posters who thinks most of the arguments here have been well balanced' because you actually said that in your last post. If I wanted to go back over all the posts again :eek: I'll bet I could make an objective statement about how many people from each side appeared to share that opinion. It wouldn't make the opinion correct, positive or negative, it would just be an observation.

 

So... on that last point we definitely agree, especially after having reread everything. Most of the posters have been thoughtful and well balanced, and the vast majority of people who expressed a view on choice supported a parent making their own - whether it entailed consequences or not. The most negative, berating or judgemental posts came from people opposing taking a child out of school. I saw quite a few references that suggested that if a parent took a child out of school for travel, they were a 'bad parent'. If that's not judgemental, I don't know what is. I also find it interesting that while you originally posted saying that you 'didn't particularly agree' with the statements you were making, you have gone to great lengths to not only defend them, but to make more assumptions than you started with! ("...someone who thinks only of themselves is not likely to mention how their actions might affect the teachers. Similarly, someone who thinks doing whatever you want is OK is not likely to be telling others to honor the rules.") Again I ask, who's making judgements here?

[MakinGold]

On the other hand, I did go back and reread the entire thread. I found multiple posts expressing the idea that parents should make their own choices - some of which were expressed by people who do not agree with children being taken out of school but most from the people who did. I found a lot less statements in which people expressed ideas more like 'you should follow the rules because they're right' (not a direct quote).

 

Me too. That's part of the reason I thought Angel's generalization was off-target.

[Onessa]

Ah, maybe now you're starting to get the catch 22, because someone who thinks only of themselves is not likely to mention how their actions might affect the teachers. Similarly, someone who thinks doing whatever you want is OK is not likely to be telling others to honor the rules.

 

If you reread the posts in this thread, I think you will find a lot of people who put alot of thought into the decision to pull their kids from school for all or part of a vacation -- exactly when to vacation to limit the time away from school, when/how to notify the school and teachers, how to deal with missed assignments, how to minimize impact (not pulling the kids during a testing period or something).

 

nd while there are some folks who are thinking only about themselves; this does post come off as a generalization on your part that lumps all parents who pull their kids into the same categories -- "thinking only of themselves" and/or "advocating the flaunting of rules".

 

I also think some posters miss the point that many school districts do have formal policies for removing your child from school for a few days (whether that be for a vacation or something else). So many of us are following the rules and are advocating that parents check out the policies of their school districts and follow them.

[MakinGold]

If you reread the posts in this thread, I think you will find a lot of people who put alot of thought into the decision to pull their kids from school for all or part of a vacation -- exactly when to vacation to limit the time away from school, when/how to notify the school and teachers, how to deal with missed assignments, how to minimize impact (not pulling the kids during a testing period or something).

 

I agree completely. I was sort of playing devil's advocate regarding a biased generalization from another poster. I was attempting to illustrate that you can find some posts that seem very self-centered, just as you can find some that seem very judgemental, but neither of those views is particularly representative of those in favor or opposed to pulling kids out of school.

 

As for my personal opinion . . . I think pulling kids out of school to go on vacation is something that should not generally be done. But I can see instances where it would be understandable. We've actually pulled our son out once (missed two school days) to go to a family wedding. It was not something that we had to go to, but it was an important family event, worthwhile to go to, and not something that we had control over scheduling. Others have their own reasons why they might need to travel during school time. If it's just to save some money by traveling in the off-season, I don't think that's a very good reason. Unfortunately, some don't think I should be allowed to have an opinion like that, without being accused of being judgemental and/or forcing my way of thinking onto them.

[Onessa]

Others have their own reasons why they might need to travel during school time. If it's just to save some money by traveling in the off-season, I don't think that's a very good reason. Unfortunately, some don't think I should be allowed to have an opinion like that, without being accused of being judgemental and/or forcing my way of thinking onto them.

 

It is fine for you to have the opinion, but it is important that it is just your opinion. I support you doing what works for you, your family, your situation -- if that is not considering pulling your son from school for a vacation if it is solely in the interest of saving money -- so be it.

 

While we have many reasons for taking our last two cruises during the school year, saving money was not really among them. However if someone did state that they cruised during the school year solely to save money, I really don't think it is any of my business what their motivation is. If they are following their school's rules, making certain their children keep up in their studies, and consider what is best for their family; they can cruise whenever and whereever and whyever they want.

 

Would I necessarily make the same decision that another has made? Maybe yes, maybe no. Do I defend your right to make that decision for your family? Yes I do.

[MakinGold]

It is fine for you to have the opinion, but it is important that it is just your opinion. I support you doing what works for you, your family, your situation -- if that is not considering pulling your son from school for a vacation if it is solely in the interest of saving money -- so be it.

 

While we have many reasons for taking our last two cruises during the school year, saving money was not really among them. However if someone did state that they cruised during the school year solely to save money, I really don't think it is any of my business what their motivation is. If they are following their school's rules, making certain their children keep up in their studies, and consider what is best for their family; they can cruise whenever and whereever and whyever they want.

 

Would I necessarily make the same decision that another has made? Maybe yes, maybe no. Do I defend your right to make that decision for your family? Yes I do.

 

I guess, with posts like that, I just sense from some people this overwhelming feeling that nobody has a right to disapprove of anything anyone else does. I'm not really hung up on this particular issue, but I do think some people take live-and-let-live a bit too far, to the point where they try to make people feel they should not be allowed to have an opinion on what someone else does. For those who are fellow Christians, I often see, "Judge not, lest you be judged" brought up in that context. I don't think that was ever meant to imply that we shouldn't have any opinions on what is and is not proper behavior.

 

Some people appear to be very cavalier about their child(ren)'s attendance at school. I think that's wrong. I don't feel the need to hunt them down and tell them they're wrong, nor do I think that such an attitude makes them "bad people", but I still think it's OK for me to have an opinion. And I don't think that our opinions should have to be so watered down with disclaimers about, "this is just what works for me, and whatever works for you is fine . . . "

[CanadianTwosome]

Nobody has ever said that opinions, whether in agreement or not, aren't welcome. The problems arise in how those opinions are expressed, and when people make assumptions.

 

For instance, as I stated in my last post, I reread the entire thread yesterday. I saw NO indication that any of the parents here are the least bit cavalier about their childrens' attendance at school. It's that kind of blanket judgemental statement that caused people to react in a negative way. Your opinion on whether you think children should be allowed to miss school to go on a holiday does not give you the right to make assumptions about people.

 

'Judge not lest ye be judged' does not preclude expressing an opinion, it just means that you should try to express it without passing judgement. It IS actually possible to do so. Stating that you do not approve of taking children out of school to travel (although you apparently think that as long as YOU deem the travel acceptable, such as your family wedding, it's okay) is welcome, especially if you provide your reasons in an objective manner to stimulate respectful debate. Stating that people don't care about their children's education or attendance simply because you don't agree with their decisions is, in my opinion, not.

[MakinGold]

For instance, as I stated in my last post, I reread the entire thread yesterday. I saw NO indication that any of the parents here are the least bit cavalier about their childrens' attendance at school.

 

Perhaps you missed some of these:

 

"Life is too short.....I never think twice about taking my kids out of school for vacation."

 

"I have taken my children out of school (they made great grades) many times for whatever I thought was important for the family(Mom's sanity is very important)."

 

"In my personal opinion, there is no better reason for having your child miss a week of school then to take a family vacation."

 

Those sound pretty cavalier, and that's just from the first 3 or 4 pages of the thread. Of course, I never suggested that all parents were cavalier about it, but some appear so. There are also a number of comments that mention something to the effect that it's no big deal, because my child is smart and will have no trouble catching up. It's not so much that they say they don't care about the effect on the teachers or the class; there is just often no mention to indicate that they've even considered it.

[larronry]

I don't know what I will do when my son goes to school but I do know that I love cruising for vacations for many reasons one of the most important reasons for me is that my husband cannot just relax so whenever we go on vacation our days are always on the go with no moment to relax. I didn't mind that as much before I became a parent but now I'm exhausted all the time and I just can't keep up that pace. I've been a stay at home mom for the last two years and people think that is easy (and it was not planned) (A hurricane 2 weeks after he was born was certainly a factor). Let me tell you with my son it hasn't been. My husband works long hours and I get very little help and basically never get a break. I'm trying to figure out how I'm going to get my hair cut before my cruise. My last one was in June. I'm going back to work in January and that means that I take my son to day care/preschool, work all day, pick him up, take him home, feed him, bathe him, put him to bed, then get my husbands dinner ready.

 

I'm telling you this so that you understand why I like cruising and why being catered to is important to me. I can't get that anywhere else. When we go on vacation I do all the driving. I don't get to relax. Cruising during the summer is out of the question because we are no longer comfortable doing so during hurricane season. Not because we are worried about the storm at sea but because we would worry about our home. There is no way to predict when the storm would hit so there is no way to decide to cruise during the summer. We already know that we can't count on our parents to come check on our house because driving that kind of distance (not far but far enough after a storm) could be dangerous. And we can't ask our neighbors to check and pay for emergency repairs if needed. So to worry about tree damage to roofs and possible flooding and leaks we need to be home and handling it.

 

So that leaves Christmas and spring break. Christmas is totally out of our league financially. We probably could afford it but we would be giving up too much else throughout the year to do it. And spring break time has two issue one is the potential crowd that may be cruising (college) and the other is a religious issue and the ability to find the food that we would be able to eat during that time.

 

This is why people might choose to cruise during the school year. You just don't know what or why people choose to do what they do. My son is 2 and education is very very important to me. I don't know what I will do I only know that these are my issues. And if you see this as selfish because I need time to relax (and yes mom's sanity is very important) it really isn't, because my son needs more time with his father as well.

[CanadianTwosome]

Perhaps you missed some of these:

 

"Life is too short.....I never think twice about taking my kids out of school for vacation."

 

"I have taken my children out of school (they made great grades) many times for whatever I thought was important for the family(Mom's sanity is very important)."

 

"In my personal opinion, there is no better reason for having your child miss a week of school then to take a family vacation."

 

Those sound pretty cavalier, and that's just from the first 3 or 4 pages of the thread. Of course, I never suggested that all parents were cavalier about it, but some appear so. There are also a number of comments that mention something to the effect that it's no big deal, because my child is smart and will have no trouble catching up. It's not so much that they say they don't care about the effect on the teachers or the class; there is just often no mention to indicate that they've even considered it.

 

I'm sure it won't surprise you to know that I interpret all of these quotes differently than you do - which supports my point that we cannot make assumptions simply based on our interpretation of text on a message board. None of us on this board know any of the others; we read and interpret posts based on our own opinions, life experiences, and beliefs. What I read is that these posters have made decisions based on what they consider important. None of them say that they think school or attendance is unimportant.

 

My wanting to eat a hot dog and forego a hamburger in no way indicates anything about my feelings towards hamburgers; it just means that when I want a hot dog, I want a hot dog. In the same way, allowing my child an experience that I believe is valuable to her development does not mean I don't think the week of school she will miss is important. What it means is that I consider the life experience gained through travel to be important. How it impacts her school attendance has nothing to do with how I feel about school attendance in general.

 

In regard to your quotes:

 

Life IS short. How does making the decision to get the most out of it and spend as much time as possible with our children lead to the conclusion that school attendance is not important? Being okay with missing a week for something you consider important is not the same thing as not caring if your kids go to school.

 

Taking kids out of school for something a parent thinks is important for the family... isn't that what YOU did?

 

An opinion that taking a family vacation is the best reason to allow your children to miss school... again, how does this equate to thinking school attendance is unimportant?

 

Again, I have to point out that you took your child out of school for a trip that you considered acceptable. You didn't mention at all how your child's absence affected his teacher(s) or the school - does that mean you didn't care, or had a 'cavalier attitude' towards attendance? Yet here you are judging people, commenting on what they think, and generally making assumptions about people you don't know. How does their decision differ from yours? What makes your reason acceptable and theirs not? Along with 'judge not lest ye be judged' I have another saying... 'Don't be a hypocrite.'

[miami]

For instance, as I stated in my last post, I reread the entire thread yesterday. I saw NO indication that any of the parents here are the least bit cavalier about their childrens' attendance at school.

 

Perhaps you missed some of these:

 

"Life is too short.....I never think twice about taking my kids out of school for vacation."

 

"I have taken my children out of school (they made great grades) many times for whatever I thought was important for the family(Mom's sanity is very important)."

 

"In my personal opinion, there is no better reason for having your child miss a week of school then to take a family vacation."

 

Those sound pretty cavalier, and that's just from the first 3 or 4 pages of the thread. Of course, I never suggested that all parents were cavalier about it, but some appear so. There are also a number of comments that mention something to the effect that it's no big deal, because my child is smart and will have no trouble catching up. It's not so much that they say they don't care about the effect on the teachers or the class; there is just often no mention to indicate that they've even considered it.

 

You have more patience than me, going back and rereading 3 or 4 pages... but I agree that I thought some of the attitudes were pretty cavalier. Some seem to have very little regard of the additional work they are placing on teachers.

[Natanni]

Thank you everyone for your kind support and suggestions.

 

Tonight is back-to-school night, so I just wrote a letter to the Principal, which I plan on handing to her (or giving to someone in the office to give to her):

 

"Dear Ms. Sxxxxxxx:

 

I was very concerned after our telephone conversation earlier today about ***** being considered Truant for October 15 through the 19th.

 

You indicated to me that ***** cannot be granted Independent Study since we were taking her out of the country.

 

Subsequent to our conversation I contacted our travel agent. Although I cannot cancel my family’s travel plans, I was able to modify them. Accordingly, I have made arrangements for ***** to be looked after in a licensed child care facility for the one day the rest of the family will be in Ensenada, Mexico. ***** will accompany the family on our visit to Catalina Island only, but will not go with us on our excursion into Mexico.

 

In light of the fact that ***** will now only be accompanying the family to Catalina, this meets the LAUSD criterion, and I beg you to please reconsider her for Independent Study, and not mark her truant for next week.

 

Thank you for your kind attention to this matter."

 

I need a Drink of the Day already!:eek:

 

I can totally understand your situation. I have taken my kids out of school for 1 week +/- a few extra days for cruises in March for the last 5 years. My husband and myself are not offered vacation time during the normal school time off. My kids are excellent A students, ages 11 and 16. They both are in band and hockey/figure skating. Teachers are now docking their grades when they are absent for that week of cruising, "participation" points, and because my son missed his participation points last March for 6 days, he was given a "C" grade, his first one. Daily participation grades can not be made up. I feel as though he has learned more on our cruises than anything in a week of school, and to our family these vacations are so important-we almost lost my husband in 2005 due to a heart valve problem. We cherish our family time together without work, phones and other obligations. It is wrong in my opinion that schools should punish kids when parents are not always able to take the "appropriate" time off.

[SarasMommy]

Many, many moons ago (1981) my grandmother in England died, and my mom had to go over there to settle the estate, sell the house, etc. I was seven at the time and she decided to take me with her. We were there for three months, right in the middle of the school year. My teacher gave me some schoolwork to take with me, which my mom made me do for a couple weeks. Then she got the idea to send me to the local school that she, my grandmother, and the rest of the family had gone to. I had such a great time! I went to school there for six weeks and learned so much. I did math problems that we didn't start learning in my Canadian school until two years later. Even though the circumstances for the visit were sad, I have nothing but fond memories of the trip.

 

I am not familiar with the American school system, but I doubt such an absence and consequences will affect your daughter by the time she gets to high school or college. Even so, I think it's worth it. There is no reason this trip cannot be a learning experience for her. Your daughter is at the perfect age where she, like me, will have wonderful memories of the experience when she is an adult.

 

JMHO.