So Much for Honesty!

[barryod]

Hi OceanDreamin',

Sorry to hear of your loss. I know your original intentions concerning this thread have, in a few instances, gone in new directions. You are to be commended on handling them so graciously. My family and friends cruise on 1-17-09 will include my youngest, who will be a Jr. in college, and also include five grandchildren ages 4 thru 12. No one blinked an eye when they committed to the cruise. The son in college plays basketball and will place family first. There are just some things in life that we simply do, knowing in our hearts that they are the right things for us to do.

Our best to your family during the Holidays and please keep cruising!

 

Barry

[CanadianTwosome]

What a great post, Barry!! You've really hit the nail on the head with a couple of the sentiments you've expressed. First, you expressed that your son places family first - and to me, there is nothing more important. Family will always come first, and opportunities to enjoy each others' company under happy and positive circumstances (rather than at a sickbed or funeral, for instance) should always be taken advantage of, in my opinion. The other was that sometimes we know in our hearts that something is the right thing to do... and it may not be the same thing that is 'right' for someone else, but it's still the 'right' choice for us.

 

My father dropped dead New Year's Eve 1970 at 41; my grandmother (who became my 'second parent' when I was 6) left us on November 20, 14 years ago; my nephew survived cancer after having been diagnosed one week after his first birthday (but it was very scary and reminded us that age means nothing to the grim reaper)... our loved ones will NOT be here forever and neither will we. Whether someone has been diagnosed with an illness or not, they may not be here tomorrow. Suggesting that the only time we should make time to spend with people we care about is when they're sick or about to be sent away to a dangerous place is, in my opinion, a very sad way to live. I know that if something should happen to me or a loved one suddenly, I have done everything I can to enjoy the time I've had with them and make the best of every moment we've had. I tell the people I care about how I feel as often as possible, too. I know that I will never be one of the people who loses someone special and then looks back and says 'If only I had...'

 

OceanDreamin and SweetAngel, you have my deepest condolences. I know this is thanksgiving for you (assuming you're American), so try to focus on the joy that your loved ones brought to your family and be thankful that you were able to know them. :)

[Cruisin' Chick]

I want to add condolences to Ocean Dreamin and Sweet angel. My girl's teacher is away for a family death too.

[NoelsCat]

My sympathies to Ocean Dreamin and Sweet Angel, too.

[dharmapath]

Although I do not have children, I feel I am qualified to add to this post being a child pulled out of school to go to Mexico on a fishing trip with my father in the fall. I am against this practice. I missed a week of school and ended up not learning anything in Mexico except how to drink tequila and smuggle narcotics into the country. In addition that week I missed never did get cough up and now I can't function in society and fail at everything because I am still playing catch up. Don't do it too your kids they will never forgive you for ruining their lives!!!!

 

Ok all joking aside:), the time spent with my father bonding and learning how the world works has made me a well rounded (aside from my feeble attempt at humor) individual.

[CanadianTwosome]

Although I do not have children, I feel I am qualified to add to this post being a child pulled out of school to go to Mexico on a fishing trip with my father in the fall. I am against this practice. I missed a week of school and ended up not learning anything in Mexico except how to drink tequila and smuggle narcotics into the country. In addition that week I missed never did get cough up and now I can't function in society and fail at everything because I am still playing catch up. Don't do it too your kids they will never forgive you for ruining their lives!!!!

 

Ok all joking aside:), the time spent with my father bonding and learning how the world works has made me a well rounded (aside from my feeble attempt at humor) individual.

 

Jeez, you scared me there for a bit. Your attempt wasn't so feeble, I liked it once I knew it was a joke! :p

[mark3232]

We did the exact same thing and were given simular reasons that our kid would be counted absent and it was from LAUSD last year. The long and short is they cannot kick your child out of school.

 

Go, have fun. We did and nothing happened. They are trying to keep this sort of thing from happening over and over again.

 

The school system get's federal money and they get docked for unexcused non-attendance so we are told.

[Cruisin' Chick]

Today we were taking our daughter on a tour of a school (thru the magnet program) and since it would take much of the day (her school was having a minimum day today), we asked if we could just take her straight there without going to her school (we don't live around there). The school administrator and her teacher agreed that was the practical thing to do and the teacher said she would leave her homework assignment in the office for us to pick up. So that's what we did, even though the school would have preferred us to take the girl to school for a short enough time for her attendance to count. To us, it would have been wasting gas.

[OceanDreamin]

First of all, thank you all for your kind words on the passing of my DH's step-mom, and I want to add my condolences to Sweet Angel also.

 

So far my friend Jill, who came with me on the cruise and pulled her two similar aged daughters out of an LAUSD school for the same week, has NOT received truancy letters. She used the same letter I sent to the Principal of my DD's school to request Independent Study for her two girls, and had no problem.

 

I guess the Principal at DD's school believes in strict adherence to the LAUSD's policies with no exceptions, whereas Principals at other schools are perhaps a bit less stringent. Now I know. I'm very happy with the education she's getting at this school (which is by far the most important thing), and DD is very happy there, so you take the good with the bad, I guess. At least now I know what the "bad" is. Hard-A$$ adherence to (in my opinion) stupid School Board policies. It's the LAUSD - it could be much worse!

[Onessa]

im sorry but unless daddy is being deported to iraq or gramma is going die in a year from cancer why would you take your child out of school for a week for a cruise? what does this teach them?economics? dear if we take susie and bobby out this week we will save 1,000 dollars.

 

Arg! xcarebearxoxo -- seems to be not at all care-bearish (perhaps that is the first "x") and the xo's must not be hugs or kisses!:D

 

Many of us have explained the multitude of reasons as to why someone may have chosen to have their child miss some school in order to take a vacation. xcarebearxoxo either failed to read the thread or chooses to put on blinders to any/all reasoning other than his/her own.

 

I refuse to make any apologies for my decision or anyone else's decision to pull their child from school. My child's school does not need nor do they want to raise my child -- it is my responsibility to raise her, it is my responsibility to determine what is best for my child -- not the school district's, and certainly not xcarebearxoxo's!

 

My condolences to everyone who have lost a loved one or are facing that prospect. I do not regret anything I have done for my family -- from taking my father with us on our second-to-the last cruise when he was ailing, to foregoing our planned June vacation because he was too ill to accompany us. The time our family spent with him was priceless.

 

So to all parents, do what is right for your child(ren) and your family. Try to work within the system; but in the end, you are the judge of what is right for you.

[Warm Breezes]

We just got back from the Norwegian Jewel over Thanksgiving. The kids missed 2 1/2 days of school. They did their homework on the drive down and the drive back. I just checked the school website which now is posting their grades for the last semester which ended while we were gone (their scores for the work they missed and made up are posted and included with their grades). DS(13) - 8th grade- has 5 A's and 1 A+, DD(10) - 5th grade- has 2 A's, 3 A-'s, an 1 B+ (her best report card to date).

 

I guess being gone did not hurt them like some on this post would have us believe. We each make our own decisions based on our childrens best interest and no one has the right to judge another parent based on circumstances that they do not know.

[clansac]

Speaking as a teacher and a mom, if anyone in the US thinks that are schools are SOOO wonderful that missing a few days for a family vacation will set your child back... you need to spend a few more days volunteering in the classroom.

 

There is so much more to life than standardized testing, NCLB requirements and writing a perfect paragraph. As a teacher, I'd rather see a horribly written paragraph with beautiful content. I can fix the paragraph, I can't fix the lack of experience and exposure.

 

I'm the kind of teacher who ALWAYS writes independent study plans, even when the principal says no. A good teacher will give your child thoughtful questions related to the experience and help them get MORE from it... not less.

[Warm Breezes]

Speaking as a teacher and a mom, if anyone in the US thinks that are schools are SOOO wonderful that missing a few days for a family vacation will set your child back... you need to spend a few more days volunteering in the classroom.

 

There is so much more to life than standardized testing, NCLB requirements and writing a perfect paragraph. As a teacher, I'd rather see a horribly written paragraph with beautiful content. I can fix the paragraph, I can't fix the lack of experience and exposure.

 

I'm the kind of teacher who ALWAYS writes independent study plans, even when the principal says no. A good teacher will give your child thoughtful questions related to the experience and help them get MORE from it... not less.

Our country needs more teachers like you. Thank you.

[MakinGold]

All I can say, as a former teacher, is that your child misses more than "book work" when he/she misses a week of school. Not all of it can be made up or taken with you. I also would NOT, ever again, prepare missed work for a student to take on a vacation. I did it too many times only to hear that the student lost it, forgot it, or just didn't have time to do it. You should all know it's a huge pain and inconvenience to ask a teacher for work ahead of time. Most of what you get will be busy work... it won't be what the student actually missed because that stuff hasn't been planned/prepared yet. And if you insist on asking for work ahead of time... do you child's teacher a favor and ask at least a week in advance. I'd like to know how many times I recieved a note on a Thursday or Friday asking for the next week's work because a student isn't going to be in school. In order to do this, I would have to give up my 20 minute lunch break. Yeah, that makes a teacher real happy with you.

 

If you choose to take your child out of school for a family vacation then know that there are consequences... your child will miss part of their education and your school may hold you accountable. And the argument "then your family can never take a vacation" doesn't hold water with me. Vacations are not something you have to do. It's a choice. From a teacher's point of view: Either take them during school vacation periods or don't take them.

 

I agree, and it's totally understandable why the schools would try to discourage this kind of thing. If it is treated as acceptable to take your child out of school for something like a cruise to the point that it's a normal practice, then you end up always having somebody out and the teachers going to extra effort to get assignments lined up for the kids who are skipping school. Just accept that the school doesn't want kids taken out of school for vacations and be adult enough to accept that, if you do it anyway, it's an unexcused absence, rather than wasting even more of the school's time by pleading your case with the principal.

[candrus03]

I have 5 kids. Once a year in December they miss 5 days. Just as now I give there teachers atleast 3 weeks in advance. I no that they do not have there lesson plans yet but I like to let then no. They are still straight A's. My parents used to take me out just the same. I never had any problems. I think it is a personal choice..only you as a parent no if you child can handle missing that week:)

[nmcrzer]

Just accept that the school doesn't want kids taken out of school for vacations and be adult enough to accept that, if you do it anyway, it's an unexcused absence, rather than wasting even more of the school's time by pleading your case with the principal.

 

While I think it is fine for parents to consider on a case-by-case basis taking their children out of school for a vacation, I do tend to agree with the statement above.

 

We took our daughter out for 3 days last month for our Enchantment cruise. The teacher was great, and gave her work to do ahead of time and on the trip. However, the school was pretty hard-nosed about the absences being unexcused. Their reasoning was that this sets a precedent and creates havoc drawing the line for others. For us, that was a risk we were willing to take for our child at that time. We weighed the pros and cons and made the decision that was best for us. We did get a truancy notation in her file. However, when the entire file is accounted for, her student profile is still excellent. Like I said, this was a personal choice for us and our child at that time. However, the school and district do have policies. If these policies are continuously circumvented, they have no weight.

 

 

Adults in the workplace have to do the same thing -- weigh the pros and cons in light of applicable policies. If I have exhuasted my vacation leave and still want to go on vacation, I might be given the option to take unpaid leave. Then I need to think of the financial ramifications of not having the money I could have earned during that time.

 

That said, I think most parents are capable of doing what is best for their children. With all that is going on in this world and this country, for me to worry about my child having an unexcused absence is comparatively minor. I am lucky that I can afford to take her, and I am lucky that she has a school where she is learning. However, other parents may not be so fortunate.

 

While I'm glad I took my daughter with us, it did impact her. Yes, she still got straight A's for the quarter, but she is still playing catch up on small things. I am grateful to her teacher, though, because the catch-up could have been a lot worse. But next time I will probably limit the absences to a day or two, unless the situation is completely inevitable. That seems to be the level my child can handle without an adverse effect on her grades.

 

OceanDreamin, I am so sorry to hear about your loss. I lost my grandmother to laryngeal cancer in 1997. It was excruciating for her, and very difficult for us to endure. We had to feed her through a tube inserted in her stomach. I certainly don't wish that on anyone. Hugs...

[CanadianTwosome]

Everyone has their own opinion about whether or not children should ever be taken out of school for any reason other than illness or family emergency. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and every parent should be allowed to make decisions based on theirs - not mine, not yours, and not anyone else's (except the other parent of course). I think the thing that bothers me about this thread is that there are parents telling me that someone has taken it upon themselves to interfere with their right to make choices regarding their children. I think it's a very sad thing that there are people parenting that make poor choices, and my heart breaks for the multitudes of children whose parents do much worse things... but I still believe that it should be the parents' responsibility to decide what is best for their child, not the school board, not the principle, and certainly not politicians.

[boulders]

I think the thing that bothers me about this thread is that there are parents telling me that someone has taken it upon themselves to interfere with their right to make choices regarding their children. I think it's a very sad thing that there are people parenting that make poor choices, and my heart breaks for the multitudes of children whose parents do much worse things... but I still believe that it should be the parents' responsibility to decide what is best for their child, not the school board, not the principle, and certainly not politicians.

 

CanadianTwosome,

 

I think it comes down to a fundamental difference between how Canadian schools are run and how U.S. schools are run. School funding in the U.S. is generally dependent on how many children attend the school on one particular day. Schools are required to meet federal achievement targets which are sometimes not realistic. If they don't meet those targets, they can lose their funding. There have been schools taken over by the state if they don't meet objectives. Local funding is also an issue. Higher socioeconomic communities generally have better schools because they can afford them. There is more socioeconomic diversity in the U.S. than Canada, so this diversity gets translated into the school systems. There are many issues ... But the short version is: what happens in Washington determines a lot of what happens in school policies. Vacation leave is one of those policies.

 

With regards to other posters who have said that taking kids out of school will teach them bad habits for when they are adults with jobs. You have a point. But it doesn't necessarily apply to other countries. Many employers in the U.S. have very stringent vacation policies. Most other countries, including Canada, give more latitude in taking vacations.

 

I'm a Canadian who has lived in the U.S. for over a decade. I used to be in school administration, but got tired of the inflexibility of the system. I now work for myself and my kids are now in private school.

[CanadianTwosome]

CanadianTwosome,

 

I think it comes down to a fundamental difference between how Canadian schools are run and how U.S. schools are run. School funding in the U.S. is generally dependent on how many children attend the school on one particular day. Schools are required to meet federal achievement targets which are sometimes not realistic. If they don't meet those targets, they can lose their funding. There have been schools taken over by the state if they don't meet objectives. Local funding is also an issue. Higher socioeconomic communities generally have better schools because they can afford them. There is more socioeconomic diversity in the U.S. than Canada, so this diversity gets translated into the school systems. There are many issues ... But the short version is: what happens in Washington determines a lot of what happens in school policies. Vacation leave is one of those policies.

 

With regards to other posters who have said that taking kids out of school will teach them bad habits for when they are adults with jobs. You have a point. But it doesn't necessarily apply to other countries. Many employers in the U.S. have very stringent vacation policies. Most other countries, including Canada, give more latitude in taking vacations.

 

I'm a Canadian who has lived in the U.S. for over a decade. I used to be in school administration, but got tired of the inflexibility of the system. I now work for myself and my kids are now in private school.

 

Thank you for providing a little more explanation of the system. I had gathered some of it from bits and pieces of the various posts. Having the better understanding actually bothers me a bit more, though! ha ha ha Not only have the powers that be assumed responsibility for other peoples' children that I think should be entirely that of the parents, but the children themselves have been reduced to dollar values. It's not that I don't understand the situation, I just think it sucks. (that describes it better than any other descriptor I could think of!) :p

[nmcrzer]

I'm not understanding how a parent could place their child in an educational system (school, school district) but then think that they can make up their own rules without consequences. Maybe I'm missing something here, though.

 

I think the entire purpose of a school and a school district is to assume responsibility for the education of children, which includes "other peoples' children". If only parents were responsible for their children, then there would be no schools. That doesn't mean parents' rights are taken away, but rather that they work together. Parents don't bear the sole responsibility, and neither do schools. Ideally, it is a collaboration.

 

Yes, each parent should make the choices that are best for his or her child. However, in order for the system to function, limits must be set. If there are rules that aren't followed, then consequences follow. The school/district sets up parameters in conjunction with parental and teacher input. If operation occurs entirely outside those parameters, then what point would it be to have a school or school system? Each parent can make the choice to operate outside those parameters, but not without consequence (negative and positive).

 

My point of view is from the U.S., however. It seems that other countries approach scholastic issues differently.

[clansac]

I'm not understanding how a parent could place their child in an educational system (school, school district) but then think that they can make up their own rules without consequences. Maybe I'm missing something here, though.

 

I think the entire purpose of a school and a school district is to assume responsibility for the education of children, which includes "other peoples' children". If only parents were responsible for their children, then there would be no schools. That doesn't mean parents' rights are taken away, but rather that they work together. Parents don't bear the sole responsibility, and neither do schools. Ideally, it is a collaboration.

 

Yes, each parent should make the choices that are best for his or her child. However, in order for the system to function, limits must be set. If there are rules that aren't followed, then consequences follow. The school/district sets up parameters in conjunction with parental and teacher input. If operation occurs entirely outside those parameters, then what point would it be to have a school or school system? Each parent can make the choice to operate outside those parameters, but not without consequence (negative and positive).

 

My point of view is from the U.S., however. It seems that other countries approach scholastic issues differently.

 

My problem isn't with rules being followed, it's with the rules. I taught at a public charter school for 5 years that is a Kennedy Distinguished School and one of the best known in California. We were encouraged to look at each student and family individually and to work with them to make school the best it could be. We had students miss all the time for vacation, charity work and (being an arts school) public performance and work in the arts industry. It was my job to find a way to make it work for them. I had 120 students every day- was it hard? Yes. But that was the point. To have a system of teaching that worked for the STUDENT.

 

Rules that are designed to make school most convenient for the system are bad rules. If LAUSD is having a problem with truancy, perhaps they should be investigating WHY students don't come to school and work on changing the system, not harassing a family for vacation.

 

I'd guarantee they're harassing her because of the 50 other kids whose parents didn't bother to send them to school for weeks, or months due to drugs, poverty, laziness or whatever. Those parents aren't showing up for truancy hearings or even opening their mail.

[OceanDreamin]

When I scheduled the vacation, DD was enrolled in a private school, NOT a LAUSD school. I didn't know at that point WHERE DD would be going to school this year. Since our local public school was a possibility, I went and found the school's website and tried to find the school calendar to determine the vacation schedule. I discovered that the calendar on the school's web site hasn't been updated since 2004!:eek:

 

The Private School DD was attending did the paperwork to have her certified as Gifted w/the LAUSD. Unfortunately, there are a lot more kids trying to get into the gifted programs than there are seats available, so my gifted daughter is in REGULAR classes, and is a year or so ahead in a couple of subjects (mainly math and science), so I wasn't worried about her missing a week of instruction. I was right on that count. It had no impact on her schooling. The week we were gone the teacher started teaching the kids addition to sums greater than 10. Last year (Kindergarten) DD was already doing string addition, addition into the thousands place, and carrying numbers, and beginning multiplication.

 

In reading these Boards I learned about "Independent Study," and since I knew that the schools lose funding if a child is not present, I thought I would be doing a good thing for the school asking for Independent Study. I thought they would still get money, even though she wasn't in her seat. Especially for a gifted 1st grader in a regular class, it seemed like a no-brainer.

 

That was my thought process going into the situation, and why I was so astounded to get the response I got. As I have said, my friend who came with me, who has two kids in another LAUSD school, and who sent the same letter I did excusing her girls, had no problem getting independent study for her girls, and did not get a truancy letter. Not that I wish truancy letters on my friend, but if a school district is going to enforce a policy, shouldn't it be enforced across the board?

[nmcrzer]

clansac - Excellent points. I agree.

 

OceanDreamin - Thank you for the explanation. And, you are right. Policies should be enforced consistently. It must have been very difficult for you to make the choice to move your daughter from private school to public.

[Sow There]

Sorry to butt in here, but it was just announced that the LAUSD has hired PR consultants and has increased the budget for its internal PR function substantially.

 

Think about that. A school district whose operating and instruction policies and procedures are so poor that it needs to spend our education tax dollars on SPIN!

 

On top of that, these jokers on the LAUSD Board have totally messed up the payroll system such that many teachers have gone underpaid or unpaid with no real effort by the LAUSD to fix the problem.

 

I give OceanDreamin tons of credit for her efforts to stay within the system and to play by the rules, erratic as they might be, and for her patience in dealing with the tone deaf bureaucracy.

 

Now....back to the original thread.

[skf]

Maybe this is a bit off thread, but the Manchester NH School Dept is at least 40% administrators, depupy superintendents and principals, asst principals & all their support staff. We're getting to the point where everyone is in charge & no-one is left to teach.

God helStevep the students!