So Much for Honesty!

[CanadianTwosome]

Travel, no matter how much it broadens one's mind, is an informal educational experience, and in my opinion (is that better, CanadianTwosome?), ought not to be had at the expense of the formal educational program.

 

First, yes, absolutely it's better to acknowledge that an opinion is an opinion!! Thanks!!

 

Now, I think what you've said here addresses a point in which we all agree... but see things slightly differently (which of course results in the basic disagreement)

 

As I've said, I can only speak for myself, but I'm fairly certain that all of the parents on this board, and certainly all of the parents in this discussion, value formal education. My idea of choosing another activity 'at the expense of' another one is to forfeit one all together. I don't believe for a moment that missing one week nullifies the benefits of the rest of the school year, especially if the student is expected to keep up. So, from my perspective, the travel is not 'at the expense of' my daughter's formal education, it is a supplement to it.

 

I think I've already mentioned it, also, but at this point in my life, after grading university papers and tutoring at all levels of school from elementary to post secondary, I don't have as much respect for the 'formal education system' as some others might. I have seen notes in students' notebooks copied from the board that contain wrong information. I taught my neice something that she mentioned in class and her teacher replied 'I'll look into that'. (it was that the angles of a triangle add up to 180 degrees, which I may not expect someone on the street to know, but I think it should be expected knowledge for someone charged with the responsibility of teaching math) So, for me, while I have nothing but respect for GOOD teachers (my mother, my grandmother and my grandfather were all teachers), I just don't believe that what they provide in any given week is irreplacable, and in the case of bad teachers, sometimes they do more harm than good. All in all, I am unable to put blind faith in the education system without my and my husband's direct input and contribution. That doesn't change just because she hasn't been at her desk, it just means that we need to take the time to find out what's been missed and ensure that it is addressed.

 

Also, (again, I'm repeating myself, so I apologize) I think that if we all had our way, we would all travel only at 'regular' holiday times. Unfortunately, that simply isn't feasible. MOST people are required to work through holidays, with one or two days off here and there. Holiday times are the most requested times off for any business' employees, and those with seniority or those who make requests first are the ones who will get that time off. For everyone else - including all the other parents in the world - they have to take their time off when they can - and that also means BOTH parents in a two parent household have to be able to get the same time off. It's all well and good to say 'Well, we did it so everyone else can' but that is simply not how the world (or logic) works. I know people who sometimes can't even get a weekend off when they want it, let alone an entire week at Christmas. As I've said in other posts, parents didn't set the school schedule. I know if I had, the holidays and teachers' meetings and other days off and breaks would likely be quite different - I'd set them to accomodate MY schedule. Unfortunately, I don't have that power. I do, however, have the power to choose if and when to allow my child to miss a week of school for something I think is important to all of us.

 

One more thing I'd like to add is that I DID try to book our holiday over Christmas. I tried to do it last year and I tried again this year. It didn't work. Last year I wasn't able to go over Christmas and this year my husband wasn't able to go over Christmas. So... should we just never travel? Those have been our options so far... no travel at all or travel during the school year. We chose to travel. I'll try again next year for a Christmas holiday, and if it works out, great!! If not... then I guess we'll be catching up on another week of school work.

[lddam]

Canadian Twosome -

How about we agree to disagree, and leave it at that?

 

Dave

[CanadianTwosome]

Oh Dave, I'm way past that! ha ha ha I'm happy to agree to disagree with anyone who is capable of having a calm, rational conversation. If we all shared the same opinions, the world would be a very boring place. (Well... unless everyone shared MY opinions... then there would be world peace, no more poverty, and joy and happiness for all!!! ha ha ha ha ha :p )

[Erwin Family @ Sea]

I no longer need to make post...:) Canadian twosome, I could not have said it any better myself. Thank you:D

[arizonaperson]

All I can say, as a former teacher, is that your child misses more than "book work" when he/she misses a week of school. Not all of it can be made up or taken with you. I also would NOT, ever again, prepare missed work for a student to take on a vacation. I did it too many times only to hear that the student lost it, forgot it, or just didn't have time to do it. You should all know it's a huge pain and inconvenience to ask a teacher for work ahead of time. Most of what you get will be busy work... it won't be what the student actually missed because that stuff hasn't been planned/prepared yet. And if you insist on asking for work ahead of time... do you child's teacher a favor and ask at least a week in advance. I'd like to know how many times I recieved a note on a Thursday or Friday asking for the next week's work because a student isn't going to be in school. In order to do this, I would have to give up my 20 minute lunch break. Yeah, that makes a teacher real happy with you.

 

If you choose to take your child out of school for a family vacation then know that there are consequences... your child will miss part of their education and your school may hold you accountable. And the argument "then your family can never take a vacation" doesn't hold water with me. Vacations are not something you have to do. It's a choice. From a teacher's point of view: Either take them during school vacation periods or don't take them.

 

My child is now 16 1/2 yrs old and during the elementary school period, we took our child out of school(more times than I can count) to go on vacations in and out of the country. Our child is now a Jr. in High School and a straight A honor student and I don't ever regret taking him/her out of school. Lesson plans are done ahead of time, true the teacher may not get to that actual lesson plan that particular day that your child is absent, but there is a plan in place. So by asking a teacher for the work ahead of time seems reasonable to a parent. No, don't ask for it the day before your vacation begins. Travel while they are young because in High School it is virtually impossible for them to miss any school. We(all of us) now only travel when school is not in session. I take "girls" only vacations from time to time to satisfy my travel bug. Happy cruising to all!:)

[skylock]

Education does not only happen in the class room.

 

Has anyone else noticed that no child left behind is actually NOT educating most of the children? (My sister is a teacher, we discuss it often) Good parents are being punished because of the bad parents.

 

I have never understood the concept that all children can learn the same.

 

We do not expect all children to have the same musical ability or the same athletic ability, so why are they expected to have the same academic ability?

 

I wanted my children to have a more rounded education than the schools seemed able to provide and I pulled them out when ever I found an opportunity. I had hell to pay with the school board after a while. I finally ended up home schooling them. And believe me, they did not suffer any harm from it.

 

Out of 4 children, noone scored less than a 29 on the ACT. They all went to college on full academic scholarships.

 

They are your children. You make the call and I am sure it will be the right one.

 

My decision was forced on me, but looking back, I am so glad it was. And my kids are too.

 

My family went nuts when I pulled my kids out of school. (school board too, LOL) But they sing a different tune now. None of my kids are on drugs, have baby's mama's, have not had brushes with the law and all are either in school or have very good jobs today. (1 civil engineer, 1 family nurse practioner, 1 game warden, and one more to go)

 

I can't say the same thing about my neighbors, family or friends kids that towed the school boards rules.

 

Family bonding will always come first with me above anything else. And I was the one to decide what was best for my kids as it should be.

[CanadianTwosome]

Nicely put, Judy!

 

Arizonaperson, I completely agree with you. High School and elementary school (we have no middle school where we live) are very different environments. I'll definitely be reevaluating as she progresses through each grade. Thanks for the idea about 'girls' trips' though... I can see my daughter and I really enjoying that... although I hope my husband doesn't get any 'father-daughter' ideas!!! ha ha ha (as my presence on this board might suggest, I'm the more enthusiastic traveller, I'd hate to be left behind!)

[arizonaperson]

Nicely put, Judy!

 

Arizonaperson, I completely agree with you. High School and elementary school (we have no middle school where we live) are very different environments. I'll definitely be reevaluating as she progresses through each grade. Thanks for the idea about 'girls' trips' though... I can see my daughter and I really enjoying that... although I hope my husband doesn't get any 'father-daughter' ideas!!! ha ha ha (as my presence on this board might suggest, I'm the more enthusiastic traveller, I'd hate to be left behind!)

 

Actually,my 2 recent cruises have been with a "girlfriend" that I have know since kindergarten. We left husbands and kids home. I say travel when and if you can. Live every day as your last, do what you want to do! Happy vacations everyone.:)

[mspostallady]

I know not all school systems are equal, so some people can get away with taking their children out during the school year and it not effect the children's grades. You obviously would not have the same outcome as the rest of us. In our schools if a missed time is unexcused that missed time does not get to be made up. All the class assignment, homework, quizzes and tests are all marked as 0's. So no matter how smart your child is , they will have a low grade for that marking term. I know sometimes taking off during the shool time is unavoidable but I for one don't want to be resposible for my child having bad grades. Especially since I don't except anything below a B on her report card without grounding involved. If you can get away with taking vacations during the school year and not cause your child to be punished for your choices have fun, I think its great to be able to do that.

[OceanDreamin]

Well, I see by the longevity of this thread that I really picked a topic that hits close to home for a lot of us! I've enjoyed reading everyone's replies.

 

DD and I have been on our vacation and have been back for a week and a half now. (We had a great time, by the way:) .) DD's teacher did send home some of her work the Friday before we left, which she completed before we left on vacation. I packed a chapter book/story book in our luggage so she could keep up with her reading while we were gone, and had her keep her reading log on a piece of notebook paper (since the teacher did't send home a reading log for her for that week). DD was given the rest of her missed work when we got back, and she's completed all of it and turned it in. She got a certificate from the teacher for meeting her reading requirement for the month, despite our vacation. In terms of missing concepts being tought in class that week, she's not struggling with anything, is still getting stars (equivalent to an A) and happy faces (equivalent to a B) on her papers, and is able to clearly explain to me the concepts covered in the worksheets, so I'm not worried that I've damaged her academically.

 

I obviously made an impression on the principal, however. When I read the school newsletter which was sent home last night, there was a whole column about how vacations during the school year are unexcused absences and if they are for three days or more are considered truancies.:rolleyes:

 

So far no truancy letter in my mailbox (or DD's homework folder), although the School District does tend to move at the speed of a constipated snail, so I may still get one eventually.

[Ellanora]

Glad to hear you both had a great time!

[MarriedInStThomas1807]

Well, I see by the longevity of this thread that I really picked a topic that hits close to home for a lot of us! I've enjoyed reading everyone's replies.

 

DD and I have been on our vacation and have been back for a week and a half now. (We had a great time, by the way:) .) DD's teacher did send home some of her work the Friday before we left, which she completed before we left on vacation. I packed a chapter book/story book in our luggage so she could keep up with her reading while we were gone, and had her keep her reading log on a piece of notebook paper (since the teacher did't send home a reading log for her for that week). DD was given the rest of her missed work when we got back, and she's completed all of it and turned it in. She got a certificate from the teacher for meeting her reading requirement for the month, despite our vacation. In terms of missing concepts being tought in class that week, she's not struggling with anything, is still getting stars (equivalent to an A) and happy faces (equivalent to a B) on her papers, and is able to clearly explain to me the concepts covered in the worksheets, so I'm not worried that I've damaged her academically.

 

I obviously made an impression on the principal, however. When I read the school newsletter which was sent home last night, there was a whole column about how vacations during the school year are unexcused absences and if they are for three days or more are considered truancies.:rolleyes:

 

So far no truancy letter in my mailbox (or DD's homework folder), although the School District does tend to move at the speed of a constipated snail, so I may still get one eventually.

:eek: I know that's immature of me, but that's hilarious! It made me laugh. Thanks!:D

[SweetAngel]

I've been following this thread for some time now, and I would just like to add my own opinion as an elementary & middle school teacher for ten years:

 

The things our children learn in one week of school are certainly replaceable ...

But ...

The things our children learn about the real world on a quality family vacation ARE unique and irreplaceable.

 

School is so very important, yes. One week missed, however, is of little consequence, especially if measures are taken to keep the child up with the class. Any child who misses a week is not going to miss out forever on some critical life skill. All important skills are taught, retaught, and practiced again and again. Anything that is taught only once will not be remembered anyway. Most teachers and parents will make sure the child who missed is indeed caught up in their skills and information.

 

Furthermore, the value of the family experience exceeds the potential loss of any educational information.

 

Every year in my classroom, several of my students missed a week of school due to vacation. As a teacher, I gave them assignments before and after the trip, and did my best to catch them up. In my professional opinion, not one of those students EVER struggled to keep up afterwards. Not one of them missed out on anything crucial.

 

I agree with Canadian Twosome:

I think that if we all had our way, we would all travel only at 'regular' holiday times.

 

As for myself and my family, I have taken my children out of school for a week every single year. They continue to excel at the top of their class in one of the highest ranked school districts in the country.

 

I believe that the value we will get from our upcoming Disney cruise will far exceed anything my children will miss in that one week of school this January. There is no way that I, as a single mother of a daughter with lifetime medical bills, would ever be able to afford a Disney cruise at peak vacation time.

 

For those people and school districts who believe that individuals should give up an opportunity of a lifetime rather than miss five school days, well, I do feel sorry for you ... because you deny your children or others the joy, discovery, and wonder that I believe make up an essential part of the meaning of life.

[Onessa]

Just got my DD's paperwork back for her absence before Thanksgiving (we will be in Venice two weeks from today).

 

No problems -- in fact all but one teacher has given her the homework stuff already set (Math teacher is holding out because she is further ahead in her independent studies work than he had anticipated - so he is looking for some enrichment activities in lieu of letting her get too far ahead)

[Geckospot]

Why are you taking the cruise during school - why not over summer vacation or winter vacation?

[CanadianTwosome]

Why are you taking the cruise during school - why not over summer vacation or winter vacation?

 

Have you actually read the thread? Please go back to the beginning and read all the posts, then see if you still need someone to answer that question! :p

[Cruise Arizona]

Onessa, I actually missed a week of College to travel to Venice my Senior year. What a wonderful trip it was.

 

 

It was actually a school trip, but I did miss classes. (I was on the Dean's list anyway, so technically I could miss as many classes as I wanted. Truthfully I didn't miss class much.)

 

Anyway, our college had started a satellite college in Venice, and our Choir was going to sing at the dedication ceremonies. It was a wonderful experience....well maybe except for the accommodations. We stayed in a dormitory type room at a youth hostel. 10 of us girls in one room.

 

I just loved walking around Venice, and every where you turned it was another historic building or church or work or art. The food was incredible too!!! Even on a budget it was great. The prices were actually pretty good because the dollar was pretty strong to the lira 18 years ago.

 

I don't remember a whole lot of specifics from my senior year of college, except that trip. I could lead a tour through the city by memory and that was 18 years ago. What a rich history and cultural experience you will have!!!!

 

 

 

 

__________________

 

The answer the recent question about why you would take your kids out of school for a cruise and not do it during the holidays, I'll list a few just to be redundant:

 

Quality family time together and one of the following:

 

 

Parents work schedule prevents taking off at break times

Desired itenerary not available during break times(Carribean during the summer? Ireland and the Baltic? Tahiti not availble during summer? ect)

Break time is only one week, and desired trip is two weeks

Cruise ships are crowded with too many kids in the kids program during break times.

 

I know there more.:)

[mikenhe]

you missed the fact that home schoolers can travel when they like.

[SweetAngel]

For a lot of us, cost is one of the greatest factors for taking our children on vacation during school sessions.

 

It would cost $2000 more for us to take our Disney cruise in the summer, and there is no 7-day Eastern Caribbean cruise at that time, only Mexico.

 

**********

 

Cost of 7-night Disney cruise for three 1/5/08: $3037.84

 

Cost of 7-night Disney cruise in summer for three -- cheapest available date 6/8/08: $5034.49

 

**********

 

Everyone has their own reasons for taking their vacations when they do. Try not to worry about what anyone else thinks as long as you are doing what you think is good for your family.

 

I know I am doing a wonderful thing for my children.

 

My children are 11 and 9. I want to take them on a Disney cruise while they still young enough to be awed by the magic. I honestly had not considered Disney before because of the cost, but my daughter looked up the cruise herself and found this great price.

 

In the Eastern Caribbean, we get to visit a new French-speaking country and visit a national park that I've been hoping to see for 18 years now. My children are very excited about this itinerary, as they have studied French in school. We have already been to Mexico, so the summer cruise is not only $2000 out of our budget, it has much less interest to us.

 

All the wonder and magic of a Disney cruise ... It's something we could have never otherwise done ... and all for the mere cost of 5 days of school. (And I believe they will still make the honor roll that quarter too! :) )

 

Ha, ha. It's a no-brainer to me. We'll take the cruise.

 

Happy cruising everyone!

[Onessa]

Why are you taking the cruise during school - why not over summer vacation or winter vacation?

 

I think I have been through this before on this thread but here goes again . . .

1. DH was Project Manager on a facilities move at work that restricted his ability to take time off during summer vacation (this is his "down time", by late Dec/Jan he'll be back into a busy time);
   
2. My father, who had lived with us since my mother's passing 4 year ago; was terminally ill and in in-home hospice care. He passed away late in July
   -- we had no idea whether he would linger for a longer or shorter time and really didn't even consider a vacation or planning a vacation until sometime in mid to late August;
   
3. My DD was in a special math class at a local college for a large part of the summer and had two weeks of non-resident band camp at another college -- the same teachers she has now were the folks who convinced us that these programs were important to her development -- and they were great opportunities for her;
   
4. I was implementing a project in July and early-August -- my next implementation that I am managing is the first full week in January, making planning to be away during DD's holiday break very difficult;
   
5. DD's school has a half-day the Friday prior to the week of T-giving, and only two days the week of T-giving meaning that she would miss only 2.5 days of school if we travelled when we did.
   She has no other school break of more than 2 days -- T-giving is a 3 day break;
   
6. for health reasons, I would not be able to tolerate the summer heat of the Mediterranean in the summer months, and (perhaps most importantly);
   
7. Because we want to! :D -- It is the itinerary we want, the ship and cruiseline we want, and it is the decision that makes sense for our family.

DD is in excellerated 7th grade math (she's in sixth grade), she reads at a 2nd Semester College Junior level, and her teachers call her an "absolute delight" (we just had parent-teacher conferences). I contacted her school's principal (who had previously been the principal at her elementary school and knew her and us) PRIOR to booking -- he fully supported the trip. He knew our DD would make the most of the trip, knew that my father's death deeply affected her, and knew that her teachers would also support the trip.

 

PS - Thanks AZ -- we were in Venice when DD was 4YO -- she remembers the pigeons in St. Marks Square, remembers playing on a playground with a little boy who spoke German, she recognizes places when Venice is on TV or in a magazine based upon photos in our photo album. The timing should be great because she her lit class is starting the "Thief Lord" (by C. Funke) the day she's back in school -- and it takes place in modern day Venice!

[Cruisin' Chick]

Why are you taking the cruise during school - why not over summer vacation or winter vacation?

 

In my previous job, I couldn't take off the final two weeks of the year. As others have said, if either parent is restricted to specific times, then that limits when they can take vacations. And in these times, leaving a job just for that reason isn't an option.

[larronry]

For a lot of us, cost is one of the greatest factors for taking our children on vacation during school sessions.

 

 

**********

 

Cost of 7-night Disney cruise for three 1/5/08: $3037.84

 

Cost of 7-night Disney cruise in summer for three -- cheapest available date 6/8/08: $5034.49

 

**********

 

OMG are you serious and Florida schools are still in session :eek: And my DH and I agreed we would do a Disney cruise 1 time when he is old enough to remember it. Then again we don't like to cruise during hurricane season. And no it's not because of itinerary changes but because we worry about our family and our home since we live in the hurricane prone area.

[CanadianTwosome]

...that was 18 years ago.

 

Wow, looking at your picture, that means you started college when you were... 12? :)

[slineberry528]

I was just passing by and saw this thread. My son is grown now, but years ago we took him out a week during December so our family could go to Disney World. It meant so much to the Grandparents and aunts and uncles for all of to go. I would do it again in a hearthbeat.

[Cruising Aussie Mum]

We take our kids out of school every year for our annual family vacation. They are in grade school and are both good students - I suppose it would be different if they were in high school or struggling. Our school has no problem with this - they ask the kids to keep a journal of their experiences and to report back on the trip. They say that it is wonderful life experience. However, we do live in Australia and things are a bit more laid back here.