So Much for Honesty!

[shancan911]

All I can say, as a former teacher, is that your child misses more than "book work" when he/she misses a week of school. Not all of it can be made up or taken with you. I also would NOT, ever again, prepare missed work for a student to take on a vacation. I did it too many times only to hear that the student lost it, forgot it, or just didn't have time to do it. You should all know it's a huge pain and inconvenience to ask a teacher for work ahead of time. Most of what you get will be busy work... it won't be what the student actually missed because that stuff hasn't been planned/prepared yet. And if you insist on asking for work ahead of time... do you child's teacher a favor and ask at least a week in advance. I'd like to know how many times I recieved a note on a Thursday or Friday asking for the next week's work because a student isn't going to be in school. In order to do this, I would have to give up my 20 minute lunch break. Yeah, that makes a teacher real happy with you.

 

If you choose to take your child out of school for a family vacation then know that there are consequences... your child will miss part of their education and your school may hold you accountable. And the argument "then your family can never take a vacation" doesn't hold water with me. Vacations are not something you have to do. It's a choice. From a teacher's point of view: Either take them during school vacation periods or don't take them.

Wow, tell us how you really feel...Really, you won't give work out any more? You beyond a shadow of a doubt know that the work will "get lost". Wow. I just talked with my DS(6)'s principal last week regarding our February cruise. I would have rather not taken him, the trip was originally planned for just DH and I, however my inlaws (who were going to watch him) decided to cruise with us. We have 15 or so other couples cruising with us, to celebrate OUR anniversary. So, needless to say, backing out at this point was out of the question. After reading countless threads on this topic, I approached the principal on eggshells, and in a cold sweat. I began by saying "I'm not going to lie about this, it's not an educational trip...blah blah blah". She put her hand on my shoulder and said, "shhh. You go on vacation. You go and make wonderful memories with your family. I never turn these requests down. There are too many families that can't or don't make time for vacations. In 20 years of being a principal, I have turned down 1 request, and that was an extreme situation." I felt so relieved. She spoke to his teacher on my behalf, and she signed it with a smiley face and an "I'm jealous". What a weight lifted off my shoulders. I wonder if she'll refuse to give us his assignments....

[sgttami]

[quote name=crusinmama06;11948577

So while you think it's not "appropriate"' date=' I know that I am giving my children learning experiences that they could never get anywhere else.

 

Does it affect their school work? Well since I have a meeting this Tuesday with the school to discuss moving my 2nd grader into 3rd grade...I can assure you, it's not hurting her education. :)[/quote]

 

 

My son was also very bright in second grade and in the gifted and talented program at school. I went to the teacher/parent meeting that year and was told that my son should be several grades ahead of what he was and they wanted to at least put him in 3rd grade..

 

I also advised them that I would be taking my son out of school for a vacation during that meeting. No problem. (I didn't care if it was, I was going and so was he!)

 

Long story, short. My son graduated from high school at 15 and although he was "smart" , he was 3 years younger than most of the graduates and not socially adept to the situations of the times. Kids in his class could drive and he couldn't. He couldn't get a summer job etc...Very frustrating for a 15 year old getting ready to go to college!!

 

Just be careful about letting your daughter move ahead in school. She may be brilliant but the stigma of not being able to do what her peers can do socially can be a hinderance in later years.

 

To the OP..go on your trip...don't lie. Deal with the aggravation when you get back!!

[madge57]

The No Child Left Behind Policy is a joke in certain areas!!! :eek: All the schools do is look after the kids with the names!! In some schools when the child is absent from school they are suppose to call home by 9 a.m. if the student isn't at school. Thats a joke more than half of the teachers don't even bother to list them absent. Good Ideal in thereoy(sp)

So have your tried to talk to the superindent about your situation? Many times when you don't have very much luck with the principal go the the super. Chance of getting something resolved will be better talking to this person. Explain everything and then go from there. And yes if you let your child go only for and hour and a half she will be counted absent for the entire day. So you will have the 5 days and if they are not excused then she will get zeros for the entire day!! I work for the school system so I really do know what I'm talking about!!:p

[kidznp]

Just be careful about letting your daughter move ahead in school.

 

As someone who can say been there, done that (it was second grade for me) I agree that it creates a certain amount of social distress to be even one full year behind all your friends. The driving thing was the worst--ALL my friends could drive for a year before I could, then my parents hired a private driving school to teach me because I was too humiliated to have to take Driver's Ed with the sophmores.

 

Also, I was almost through with my first year of college before I turned 18--which was the going to bars age in Texas back in the 70's. I had no desire to drink but I DID want to go disco dancing... my friends and I found some creative ;) ;) ways for that to happen.

 

If I had it to do all over again (not that it was my choice) I would have liked to have been the same age as my friends during that time.

 

This is all way off topic and will probably be deleted or moved. I apologize in advance.

 

Sherri

[notentirelynormal]

Ok, the principal's comments just annoyed me so I've done some research. My co-worker's wife is a teacher with LAUSD and I asked him about a kid being gone for a week. He said nothing happens, she has a lot of kids that go to say, Mexico, for a month. THEN she's frustrated because that IS a long time. Nothing happens.

 

Then I asked my brother who is a teacher with LAUSD. He said that being in the country or out it makes absolutely no difference and its none of their business where you go. He also said that there are excused absences, such as a death in the family, sickness etc. They can hardly tell you that you can't travel to visit with a dying relative in Canada for example. I asked about her only going for 1-1/2 hours, did that count towards being there that day and he said yes.

 

For the record I took my kids out all the time. We got homework, they did it all and no one cared. Granted this was a few years ago and we live in Ventura county but still, not a big deal at all. We've also done it in Oregon and British Columbia.

[Onessa]

It could be that the principal is strictly going by policy. Is it possible that if you approach her again and say "Hey let's start over. My daughter is going on vacation to Catalina Island. Can I now get Independent Study?" It could be that your principal needs the correct "language" in order to excuse you. That maybe she's willing to forget about the first letter if she has a different one on record.

 

Thanks for stating my point more clearly! This is what I was thinking when I said go back to the principal and lay it all out -- see if you can't work out a way to make this trip happen and not cause the school district to lose any funding, not make everyone go to the fuss and bother of the "truency" letter, etc.

 

I have heard unverified rumors of a new season. It's called "Summer" & if it exists in real life it is to be used for children's vacations & does not involve the Principal's office.

 

. . . Our family vacations were during the summer months either in September before school started or in June just as soon as school was out. I did not take my children out of school for trips.

 

This summer, my father for whom I had responsiblity and was living with me was very ill and passed away mid summer. My DH's company was moving locations -- he is the Network Manager and could not take more than one day at a time off in May through Mid-August. My DD was participating in a math enrichment program run through one of the local colleges for six of the eight weeks of summer. I had a project at work that I was managing that was implementing in August through mid-September -- I took time off all summer, but could never be physically that far away.

 

Sometimes summer is not a simple answer. If it works for you and your family, good for you! If it does not work for others, so be it!

 

Thanksgiving week is short for DH, for me and for DD. She'll miss 2.5 days of school. DH and I each 4 days of work. Since it is near a holiday and deer hunting season, my work project deadlines are all automatically adjusted in my project timelines to deal with resource absences. For us Thanksgiving week was a pretty simple answer -- I'm certain it would cause all sorts of problems for some other people.

[cruisead]

As a former teacher, let me let you all in on a little secret. When you go to the teacher and ask for packets to be made up, do you honestly and truly think the teacher will hassle you???????? Not in this day and age of parents who bring the lawsuit and ask questions later. Not in this day and age of parents who think their child can do no wrong, even in the face of black and white proof (like the 12 year old in my next door neighbor's class who had marijuana in his pocket and said he didn't know it was there and now the parents are suing the district for "planting" the stuff on the kid--btw, this is the same kid who threw a rubber ball with straight pins sticking out of it at kids on the playground). Not in this day and age of principals who have to kiss the behinds of parents in order not to start problems with the school board when no problems actually exist. Please, parents. Take your child on vacation, or don't take them. It's nobody's business on these boards. It's your business only. But don't put the blame for your decision on your child's teacher, principal or anyone else if there are problems because of district rules---they are doing their jobs within the constraints handed to them. You make these decisions, and the fallout, if there is any, is on you, and not the teacher/principal. But after all these years on the CC boards, I'm constantly amazed by how many people post here asking about pulling kids from school, as if they are trying to validate their decision. Just go on your vacations and have your family time. BTW, I have three boys, so I'm not a kidless idiot.

[lddam]

I've been following this thread waiting for someone to raise the issue of principle (that's spelled with a "P-L-E"). In my opinion, there are moral and ethical issues involved here that seem to be taking a back seat to the convenience of a vacation. I can't remember when I've read so much in support of a weak position. My child did this...my honor student did that..., I've kept my DD out for ..., we were gone for 2 weeks and..., my child learned how to..., etc. The common denominator to all of these arguments is that they fall into the realm of rationalization, and weak rationalization, at that.

 

To be sure, all of these experiences were valuable for the absent students. However, what you are describing is incidental, casual learning that can be made available to children at times which would not conflict with the academic year. What many of you seem to do is equate these disjointed, life experiences to formal education which takes place in a classroom (with or without walls) presided over by a certified professional following a prescribed curriculum. Perhaps one of the reasons why student performance in the United States ranks so low in comparison to our foreign competitors is that we, as a population, have such a cavalier attitude regarding the importance of formal learning. So a child is absent a day or two here, or a week or so there, what's the big deal? To read what most are saying on this thread, it's no big deal at all, and for gifted/talented students, this may be true. However, even for the G&T, gaps develop during an absence. They fare better than the average or below average student only in insofar as they are capable of filling the gap more readily. Reread this thread critically and examine the rationale presented for pulling the students out of school. It becomes evident that formal education ranks low on the list of personal priorities. Also, what I don't read anyone addressing is the cumulative effect of absence over time and its effect on the K-12 continuum.

 

The issue is a complex one with many variables, and no one course of action is appropriate for every individual in every circumstance. Our family's attitude has been that fate creates enough disruption in attendance through sickness and accident. We weren't going to magnify the problem through actions for the sake of convenience. The bottom line is to establish your priorities and act accordingly. We've established ours. What are yours?

 

Dave

[skf]

Hiya, Iddam...I got eleven days off in high school. (Had pneumonia, was in intensive care for a week.)

Steve

[CC Help Michell]

As a former teacher, let me let you all in on a little secret. When you go to the teacher and ask for packets to be made up, do you honestly and truly think the teacher will hassle you???????? Not in this day and age of parents who bring the lawsuit and ask questions later. Not in this day and age of parents who think their child can do no wrong, even in the face of black and white proof (like the 12 year old in my next door neighbor's class who had marijuana in his pocket and said he didn't know it was there and now the parents are suing the district for "planting" the stuff on the kid--btw, this is the same kid who threw a rubber ball with straight pins sticking out of it at kids on the playground). Not in this day and age of principals who have to kiss the behinds of parents in order not to start problems with the school board when no problems actually exist. Please, parents. Take your child on vacation, or don't take them. It's nobody's business on these boards. It's your business only. But don't put the blame for your decision on your child's teacher, principal or anyone else if there are problems because of district rules---they are doing their jobs within the constraints handed to them. You make these decisions, and the fallout, if there is any, is on you, and not the teacher/principal. But after all these years on the CC boards, I'm constantly amazed by how many people post here asking about pulling kids from school, as if they are trying to validate their decision. Just go on your vacations and have your family time. BTW, I have three boys, so I'm not a kidless idiot.

 

As a teacher, I sometimes toss in a post or two when this issue starts up (which is about once per month) but in this case I'd refrained because the OP has LONG ago been answered -- she wasn't asking for advice on taking her child out of school; she just wanted some advice on how to deal with the principal/district about it.

 

The above post did strike me, however, as there are many things in it I agree with. I never argue with a parent who has decided to take their child out of school for a vacation -- all that does is create bad feelings when we are supposed to work together for the benefit of the child. I make up a work packet which consists of practice of things I've already taught in the classroom, even knowing the child might or might not do the work. I then make every effort to help the child catch up on the in-class lessons/direct instruction missed during the absence.

 

I'm happy for each child who has a chance to take a great vacation with family and spend that quality family time -- and I never second-guess a parent who has made that decision for his/her family. I do cringe, however, when it's a child who really struggles with new material and is barely keeping pace with the rest of the class -- it's SO much harder for that child to "catch up" than one who grasps everything instantly. But it is the parents' responsibility to be honest with themselves about their individual child's abilities in this respect.

 

I think it's a call that each parent, knowing their own child as a learner, has to make -- and I also haven't ever quite understood coming to the message boards for "validation" from anonymous strangers for this kind of judgment call. Nobody here knows your child like you do, and their experience with their little academic superstar may or may not apply in your case.

 

I also did want to say that I agree with Lddam about the notion that "a child learns just as much on a cruise vacation as they do in school." Quantity wise, that may be true, and exposure to other cultures is a life-broadening experience -- but education in this country now is all about CONTENT -- very specific content. There are benchmarks that each child, even the wee ones in primary grades, are supposed to meet before advancing to the next grade. Every single day of instruction is designed to help each child meet those benchmarks -- and whatever a child learns on vacation, it almost certainly isn't the same CONTENT as the lessons the teacher will deliver live during that week. While the teacher will try to help the child "catch up," the actual experience of a well-delivered lesson in which the class is engaged, discussing, and doing hands-on things isn't capable of duplication after the fact.

 

Someone above mentioned an illness -- yes, that can and does happen. Sometimes a child misses a week or more of classes due to an illness. As in the vacation scenario, I do what I can to help them catch up -- but how unfortunate if the same child who misses a week in the fall for vacation happens to be one to miss 1-2 weeks in the spring due to illness. Then the district's attendance policy really does kick in (probably with more than a truancy letter), not to mention the effect on standardized tests and promotion decisions. Many districts now have a policy about a total number of absences (excused AND unexcused).

[OceanDreamin]

But after all these years on the CC boards, I'm constantly amazed by how many people post here asking about pulling kids from school, as if they are trying to validate their decision. Just go on your vacations and have your family time. BTW, I have three boys, so I'm not a kidless idiot.

 

The OP here, jumping back into the frey.:eek:

 

Um, I DIDN'T post asking to have my decision validated that I was pulling DD out of school for a week. I'm perfectly confident in that decision, thank you.

 

What my post was about is my astonishment that I can pull my DD out of school and have it excused, no mater what I am doing with her on that vacation, as long as we don't cross the U.S. Border. That's it. It wasn't whether the vacation is eductional or not. The issue about Independent Study being approved or denied was based solely on her geographic whereabouts during her absence. That seems pointless to me.

 

To those of you who are outraged at the idea of taking a child out of school to go on vacation: I respect your opinion on that (although obviously do not share it). I would ask if you can intellectually manage to separate that issue, and just acknowledge the ludicrousness of this policy. There just doesn't seem to be a valid reason behind it. Can you at least acknowledge that - with the issue of the appropriateness of the absence being a separate issue entirely?:cool:

 

Additionally, my frustration was that it would have been so much easier for me to just call DD in sick every day, and NOT deal with the beurocracy. Instead I chose to be above-board, communicate in plenty of time with both the teacher and the Principal, and was simply posting my less than positive experiences, given the number of posts on this board about pulling children from school. I thought it would be useful information to other parents to have, particularly other parents with children in the same School District.

[OceanDreamin]

. . . She wasn't asking for advice on taking her child out of school; she just wanted some advice on how to deal with the principal/district about it.

Thank you!:)

[ryandkris]

I am sure this is the wrong thing to say, but is it not possible to plan vacations when your child is not in school? I do not think pulling a kid of any age out of school for any length of time "for a family vacation" is appropriate or necessary.

 

Getting an education is a child's "job" and as a parent this should be a priority. Even if it means you can't go on vacation during school terms.

 

I am a pediatric nurse practitioner and live in Texas. The school attendance policies here are very strict. Parents get annoyed with me at times when I refuse to provide a "doctor's note" to cover absences (sometimes months beforehand) to keep them out of trouble. I will only excuse school attendance if I have personal knowledge that the child was too sick at a given time to attend school.

 

 

Children don't need "jobs"!!! They need a chance to be kids! I wouldn't give out notes to a dishonest parent either, but I don't think my 6 year old and 5 year old need "jobs." In the grand scheme of things, ONE WEEK of missing school for a FAMILY TRIP really isn't a big deal, and the kid will remember the vacation better than that week of school.

 

ETA: see you on the cruise! 4 more days!!!

[sas80]

I love threads like these!

 

It gives me something to continually browse while I am at work! :D

[sailinglisa]

Children don't need "jobs"!!! They need a chance to be kids! I wouldn't give out notes to a dishonest parent either, but I don't think my 6 year old and 5 year old need "jobs." In the grand scheme of things, ONE WEEK of missing school for a FAMILY TRIP really isn't a big deal, and the kid will remember the vacation better than that week of school.

 

Gee, I remember having plenty of chances to be a kid when I was a kid. I wasn't scheduled to death with this activity and that activity and then be here for this lesson and there for that lesson. I also remember that my parents valued education and we NEVER took vacation during the school year. Their choice. They made the decision that our education and instilling the ethic about needing to do what you are supposed to do was more important than saving a few dollars to vacation at a cheaper time.

 

Weekends and summers and school vacations were for play and fun.........during school we had to do our homework when we got home from school....and if it wasn't finished before dinner, we had to give up our tv time to do it after dinner. You know what? We weren't damaged psychologically or developmentally. We were doing what was required for us at our ages.

 

I believe that when people choose to have children and start a family, the PARENTS need to adjust their wants/needs/desires. You have to do what is best for the children, not what is best or most desirous for you. The children come first, and that means planning activities and vacations that are age appropriate. My parents never expected a 2 - 4 year old old to sit through a formal dinner, so we were left with baby sitters or they didn't go. They did not expect the others at these events to have to tolerate us. At church, if we got noisy or disruptive, we were removed immediately from the area......and we were not rewarded for our behavior. We had to learn appropriate behavior, but my parents never expected others to be disturbed while we learned that behavior. We learned it at home and at visits to our relatives. We had plenty of times to play and be kids, but we also were learning how to be respectful and pleasant companions in the future.

[sailinglisa]

OceanDreamin......I am glad that you decided to do what I believe is the right thing. I also applaud the fact that you realized that you can't tell your daughter to do one thing and then you go and do something else.

 

I think if people want to take their kids out of school for vacation or whatever, fine.......go for it. But then accept the consequences laid out by the school district. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

[lawhit88]

Let's go with the theory that the kids school is their "job". It makes it more obvious that just like I take time off from "job" for a vacation - so do they. Summer is great but prices are way to high then...:confused:

 

The funny part is...I think it is the exception, not the rule, that administrators care when responsible parents take kids out of school for a reasonable amount of time for a vacation. I read more on these boards about what policies say and never see many people post real life examples of these policies actually causing them hardships. Sure...sometimes you read about people being given a hard time about make-up work, "unexcused" absence, and truancy letters, but in the end...you don't read much about kids actually getting terrible grades or failing. It always seems to work out.

 

As far as the OPs experience - I agree...that policy sounds crazy to me. Sometimes policies are created just to be able to say we have a policy - but only when it comes time to enforce the policy do you realize it is a pretty dumb policy.

[OceanDreamin]

I spoke with the Principal yesterday early afternoon over the phone, and after furthre discussion on the matter, she told me that she would approve DD for Independent Study. Then last night I got home to a voice mail message from her saying that my request was reviewed "by the committee:confused: " and it was denied because it is for a vacation and not a medical situation or an urgent matter.

 

Okay, THAT I can accept. That basis is rational. So I guess my little 1st-grader is going to be truant next week. :rolleyes:

[Ellanora]

OceanDreamin, have a great time on your cruise! I admire you for being above board with the school - I have done the same thing in the past, most recently last month, although with more success than you have had, unfortunately. It is a shame they will not treat it as excused, but since I'm sure your daughter will do just fine the rest of the school year, it will probably have little negative effect in the long run.

[ryandkris]

Gee, I remember having plenty of chances to be a kid when I was a kid. I wasn't scheduled to death with this activity and that activity and then be here for this lesson and there for that lesson. I also remember that my parents valued education and we NEVER took vacation during the school year. Their choice. They made the decision that our education and instilling the ethic about needing to do what you are supposed to do was more important than saving a few dollars to vacation at a cheaper time.

 

I also don't schedule my kids to death. I DO value education. In fact, I homeschool my children. BUT I also think that parents AND teachers sometimes take things too seriously, whether it's school, soccer or whatever! A 6 year old is NOT going to suffer academically from missing a week of school.

 

Weekends and summers and school vacations were for play and fun.........during school we had to do our homework when we got home from school....and if it wasn't finished before dinner, we had to give up our tv time to do it after dinner. You know what? We weren't damaged psychologically or developmentally. We were doing what was required for us at our ages.

 

I don't think a kid will be "damaged" by doing what is required of them. However, I also don't think that we should view a child's education as a job or chore for them. Education is a gift, and I want my kids to LOVE learning.

 

I believe that when people choose to have children and start a family, the PARENTS need to adjust their wants/needs/desires. You have to do what is best for the children, not what is best or most desirous for you. The children come first, and that means planning activities and vacations that are age appropriate. My parents never expected a 2 - 4 year old old to sit through a formal dinner, so we were left with baby sitters or they didn't go. They did not expect the others at these events to have to tolerate us. At church, if we got noisy or disruptive, we were removed immediately from the area......and we were not rewarded for our behavior. We had to learn appropriate behavior, but my parents never expected others to be disturbed while we learned that behavior. We learned it at home and at visits to our relatives. We had plenty of times to play and be kids, but we also were learning how to be respectful and pleasant companions in the future.

 

I also believe a parent should adjust. I stay home with my children full time and I homeschool them. That's an adjustment. Just because I don't agree that a child needs to view education as a job doesn't mean I don't invest in them and discipline them. My children are extremely well behaved 90% of the time, and the other 10%... well they are kids and they forget. So I remind them however I need to.

 

I find it interesting how you took the leap from me thinking a child doesn't need a job at age 6 to I don't think I should change my lifestyle for them and discipline them. I agree that kids need structure and discipline. But I also think that they need time to be kids and NOTHING should be more important than creating family ties and memories. Just ask any wife/mother who has husband in Iraq. I promise you that none of them will say that school is more important than getting time with daddy.

[Onessa]

I've been following this thread waiting for someone to raise the issue of principle (that's spelled with a "P-L-E"). In my opinion, there are moral and ethical issues involved here that seem to be taking a back seat to the convenience of a vacation. I can't remember when I've read so much in support of a weak position. My child did this...my honor student did that..., I've kept my DD out for ..., we were gone for 2 weeks and..., my child learned how to..., etc. The common denominator to all of these arguments is that they fall into the realm of rationalization, and weak rationalization, at that.

 

What is the ethical issue? The OP never indicated that she had or was planning to lie or cheat in order to get the Independent study. She has acted in a quite upstanding manner -- not simply "assuming" that it would be OK to pull her child out of school, but understanding the possible financial implications to her DD's school and trying to work out a solution that would mitigate the financial damage. She is not trying to tell her child that it is OK to miss school, but instead by trying to go the Independent Study route to demonstrate to her DD that even if she is not IN class, that she is still responsible for the work. She ever tried to lie to or mislead the principal and has contended throughout this thread that she is willing to live with the consequences of her family's actions.

 

To be sure, all of these experiences were valuable for the absent students. However, what you are describing is incidental, casual learning that can be made available to children at times which would not conflict with the academic year. What many of you seem to do is equate these disjointed, life experiences to formal education which takes place in a classroom (with or without walls) presided over by a certified professional following a prescribed curriculum.

 

If formal education is so important, why do professional educators continue to support the status quo where most student's have a LONG summer break and have relatively short school days?

 

Why not change society into some bad Sci Fi channel movie and remove children from their families at birth for carefully monitored, sanitized, laboratory-type upbringing. Plug their heads in and fill them with book knowlege! WHY? because there is much more to developing a functioning human than classroom experiences.

 

Reread my posts -- and answer me, what would my DD learn about ancient Greek society in social studies in the two days (out of a 20 day lesson plan) she will miss while we are in Greece?

 

Perhaps one of the reasons why student performance in the United States ranks so low in comparison to our foreign competitors is that we, as a population, have such a cavalier attitude regarding the importance of formal learning. So a child is absent a day or two here, or a week or so there, what's the big deal? To read what most are saying on this thread, it's no big deal at all, and for gifted/talented students, this may be true. However, even for the G&T, gaps develop during an absence. They fare better than the average or below average student only in insofar as they are capable of filling the gap more readily. Reread this thread critically and examine the rationale presented for pulling the students out of school. It becomes evident that formal education ranks low on the list of personal priorities. Also, what I don't read anyone addressing is the cumulative effect of absence over time and its effect on the K-12 continuum.

 

Talk about weak rationalization -- "gee not everyone has the same view I have so their actions must be the reason American education system is in trouble." We have poverty (children who come to school hungry or without the basic supplies they need to learn), we have apathy (it's the schools responsibility to teach my kid to read, why do I have to read to him?), we have budget cuts (hey I don't care if research shows that smaller class size leads to better learning environment, if it means another mil on my property tax bill forget it!), and a myriad of other issues ALL contribute to the current problems facing schools in the US (and elsewhere).

 

We have travelled extesively (pre and post child) -- we had a delightful youngster at our table during our first Alaskan cruise -- a young man taking a four-week vacation with his parents in the US. He was Australian and was missing school for three of those four weeks. We have hooked up with a Belgian family whose kids will be pulled from school for their family vacation when we take our cruise this Thanksgiving. This is NOT an American phenomonon!

 

The issue is a complex one with many variables, and no one course of action is appropriate for every individual in every circumstance. Our family's attitude has been that fate creates enough disruption in attendance through sickness and accident. We weren't going to magnify the problem through actions for the sake of convenience. The bottom line is to establish your priorities and act accordingly. We've established ours. What are yours?

 

My priority is to raise a well-rounded, confident young woman. Keeping her shackled to a school desk just because some administrator is afraid of having the district's statistics skewed - is not one of my priorities. Caring for my father while he was dying (which I'm certain you will explain away as a "rationalization, and weak rationalization, at that" was my priority this summer. Having my daughter see that my husband takes his responsibilities at work seriously and doesn't skip off on vacation at a critical time, is a priority.

 

Knowing that my DD will miss a half day (where the scheduled "formal" classroom experience is watching "Cars" as a "reward" -- no one can tell me as a reward for what?) and two full-daysof schools -- does not strike me as outrageous. Knowing that she has already gone to her teachers (one month prior to the trip) to ask what she will need to do to deal with the absence, makes me realize that she understands her responsiblity.

 

So don't go "blah, blah, blah"ing others. Just because we don't live in your Ward-and-June world where the second week of June is reserved for pretending we are a family so we can go on vacation, doesn't mean that our position is wrong. You go right ahead and take your trips during your kids school breaks -- not one of us will complain or get on your case -- if it works for you, more power to you.

[Warm Breezes]

Gee, I remember having plenty of chances to be a kid when I was a kid. I wasn't scheduled to death with this activity and that activity and then be here for this lesson and there for that lesson. I also remember that my parents valued education and we NEVER took vacation during the school year. Their choice. They made the decision that our education and instilling the ethic about needing to do what you are supposed to do was more important than saving a few dollars to vacation at a cheaper time.

 

Weekends and summers and school vacations were for play and fun.........during school we had to do our homework when we got home from school....and if it wasn't finished before dinner, we had to give up our tv time to do it after dinner. You know what? We weren't damaged psychologically or developmentally. We were doing what was required for us at our ages.

 

I believe that when people choose to have children and start a family, the PARENTS need to adjust their wants/needs/desires. You have to do what is best for the children, not what is best or most desirous for you. The children come first, and that means planning activities and vacations that are age appropriate. My parents never expected a 2 - 4 year old old to sit through a formal dinner, so we were left with baby sitters or they didn't go. They did not expect the others at these events to have to tolerate us. At church, if we got noisy or disruptive, we were removed immediately from the area......and we were not rewarded for our behavior. We had to learn appropriate behavior, but my parents never expected others to be disturbed while we learned that behavior. We learned it at home and at visits to our relatives. We had plenty of times to play and be kids, but we also were learning how to be respectful and pleasant companions in the future.

 

We have a busy schedule:

 

DD(10) is on 5 competitive dance teams and DS(13) is in soccer, basketball, and band. Do I push these activities on my children?? NO-but I do encourage them to participate in activities they enjoy. DD would be on even more teams if I would let her because she loves to dance. DS gets bored when it isn't soccer or basketball season and requests going to camps or getting on teams outside of school. I did not participate in these types of activities when I was younger because my family could not afford it. I know how important these extra-curricular activities are for their self-esteem and their social skills and I can afford to give it to them as long as they enjoy it.

 

I teach 2nd Grade Sunday School and my children are active in their Sunday School and Catechism classes as well as Wednesday night GEMS/SOS groups through Church. Do I push these activities on my children?? YES. God has the most important roll in our family and we make the time to serve Him.

 

DD is an A/B student - getting better grades every year even though she has been increasing her dance load. DS is a straight A student. Do I value education?? YES. I was a Valedictorian of my class and have an MBA. I know how important education is to the future of my children.

 

Both DH and I work outside of the home - both of us having limited flexibility when it comes to scheduling vacations. We try to schedule vacations when they have the least impact on all the activities listed above in the time available to us through our work schedules. Sometimes that mean that the children will miss a couple of days of school. Do I value taking vacation with my family?? YES - even if it means they may miss a couple days of school. With all of our busy schedules we need down time together. We take it and we enjoy it because family time is just as important as all the other activities they participate in - including school.

 

My children have not suffered academically for missing a few days for family togetherness. My children learned at an early age to sit through church quietly and to sit through long formal dinners. They are of a temperment that this was not a problem for them and they never had to be disciplined for inappropriate behavior in public places. They find it embarrassing to be around children who are acting inappropriately.

 

So my point - Do not judge people. You do not know their family situation. You do not know how academically advanced their children are. You do not know the flexibility of their work schedules or the schedules of the extra-curricular activies the children are in. Don't take your values and try to impose on someone elses situation. They may not fit. Do what is right for your family, for your situation and let others do what is right for their family and their situation without judging them. God made us all different for a reason. Let's celebrate our individuality by not judging but by appreciating our differences.

[cruisead]

Cruising is great for family time.....If that's so, why is it that the kid's clubs are always crowded, why is it that one of the first questions parents ask on these boards is "how many hours can the kids be in Camp Carnival----can I leave my kids in Camp Carnival when we go on shore excursions----can I keep the kids in Camp Carnival while we eat dinner each night----is Camp open on port days---can I get babysitters every night starting at 6----why can't my child who will be 3 a week after we cruise go to the kid's club." See a pattern here? Every parent who pulls their kids out of school for a cruise always says it's a great family time, but yet many of these same parents put their kids, or the kids themselves decide, to spend hours and hours in the clubs, never spending any time with their families. I know that on all our cruises, we hardly see any families spending quality time together, unless the family consists of mom, dad and infant/toddler. Most of the time, the kids are nowhere near the "family". And another thing---this whole discussion of "they learn much more on a week's cruise than they can in the classroom". What an awful thing to teach your kids. And, come on. In all honesty, do you REALLY take time to actually teach???? I doubt it. When we took our boys, during their school vacations, we didn't use it as an educational adventure. And really, what are they learning swimming at the beaches, walking in the stores and all that. Sorry, I don't believe for one moment that a parent is teaching cultural values, cultural diversity or anything like that when you're on a cruise---you're on a vacation, for less money than it would cost if you waited for a regular school break, and you're having fun. More power to you. Have a great time but please don't try and make the teachers and supervisors believe you're doing this for any other reason than you want to take a vacation.

[CanadianTwosome]

Cruising is great for family time.....If that's so, why is it that the kid's clubs are always crowded, why is it that one of the first questions parents ask on these boards is "how many hours can the kids be in Camp Carnival----can I leave my kids in Camp Carnival when we go on shore excursions----can I keep the kids in Camp Carnival while we eat dinner each night----is Camp open on port days---can I get babysitters every night starting at 6----why can't my child who will be 3 a week after we cruise go to the kid's club." See a pattern here? Every parent who pulls their kids out of school for a cruise always says it's a great family time, but yet many of these same parents put their kids, or the kids themselves decide, to spend hours and hours in the clubs, never spending any time with their families. I know that on all our cruises, we hardly see any families spending quality time together, unless the family consists of mom, dad and infant/toddler. Most of the time, the kids are nowhere near the "family". And another thing---this whole discussion of "they learn much more on a week's cruise than they can in the classroom". What an awful thing to teach your kids. And, come on. In all honesty, do you REALLY take time to actually teach???? I doubt it. When we took our boys, during their school vacations, we didn't use it as an educational adventure. And really, what are they learning swimming at the beaches, walking in the stores and all that. Sorry, I don't believe for one moment that a parent is teaching cultural values, cultural diversity or anything like that when you're on a cruise---you're on a vacation, for less money than it would cost if you waited for a regular school break, and you're having fun. More power to you. Have a great time but please don't try and make the teachers and supervisors believe you're doing this for any other reason than you want to take a vacation.

 

Ha ha ha ha ha :p I would never in a million years suggest that I was taking my child on a cruise as an educational experience. It's a VACATION. That being said, I still believe very strongly that it IS a learning experience - as all life experiences are. I learned things in my travels as a child that I would never have learned at school and that have helped to shape the person I am today.

 

As for those questions you're referring to, they are not the first question that all parents ask. Yes, I've seen them as well, and I've even told some of my friends about them - I personally find some of them completely beyond my comprehension. If I didn't intend to spend as much time as possible with my child, I would leave her home. So, I really can't answer why people ask some of them... they just don't make sense to me. I can, though, tell you one thing... the reason the kid's clubs are always so full is that they're FUN!!! Being on a family vacation doesn't mean you have to be joined at the hip, it means that everyone is along to make the most of the vacation. For us that means we eat together, do excursions together, and enjoy activities on board that appeal to us... if that means my daughter will be jumping in a ball pit while I'm singing karaoke, that's okay. We'll be side by side at the family pizza making event, swimming with dolphins, and seeing real, live baby whales in their natural environment (if we're lucky).

[CanadianTwosome]

I believe that when people choose to have children and start a family, the PARENTS need to adjust their wants/needs/desires. You have to do what is best for the children, not what is best or most desirous for you. The children come first, and that means planning activities and vacations that are age appropriate.

 

I am in full agreement with this statement!!! For me, based on my personal experience, doing what is best for my child means providing her with the experiences she can only get from travelling. If that means that to make it work with everyone's schedules and our budget she has to miss some school, I am happy that she is (so far) academically capable of doing so without problems.

 

I would love to be able to take our holidays over Christmas every year. It's such a wonderful time to travel - there are always decorations and festivities - and I'll never forget how fun it was to sing carols around a bonfire on a beach in Florida (having left behind a very white and cold Christmas at home!). Unfortunately, it's just not possible for us. We either travel when we can or we don't travel, and I consider the experience too valuable to miss.

 

I think I'm a really good parent. I'm certainly the best one I know how to be and make the best choices I can based on my life experience (and of course the input of my husband). I think my mom was the best mom that ever was. I hope all of the other parents on this board feel the same way about themselves. May all your children be well behaved, well adjusted, and successful in life!! :)