Smokers....have your say, outdoor area....

[jaydonny]

by the way iam not a smoker my self, but i will be cruiseing with family and friends who do smoke (Ventura N905A ) and as i have no problems with socialising with smokers outdoors, even now in the frosty uk whare we can go to many out door areas catered for smokers with outdoor heating and windproof ashtrays shelterd seating even mood lighting....

So instead of haveing to nipp out for a smoke and rush around wouldnt it be an idea to create and make use of an open deck bar and makeing it a more relaxd area for smokers with decent seating and moveable shelter screens background music......

 

jay

[Pontius Navigator]

i have no problems with socialising with smokers outdoors, . . . wouldnt it be an idea to create and make use of an open deck bar and makeing it a more relaxd area for smokers with decent seating and moveable shelter screens background music......

 

jay

 

No.

 

Every time special arrangements are made for smokers they exclude non-smokers.

 

Now a revolutionary idea.

 

Instead of restricting smoking to the port side, and thus keeping non-smokers out of the sun or out of the shade, or out of one bar etc, lets ban smoking on some ships.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

hat, coat, scarf

 

I wasn't brave enough to suggest reopening all outside spaces to smokers.

[stopgo]

I guess as a trial P/O could designate one cruise this year for non smokers only. If they advertise it enough and make it clear its a non smoking cruise. Then they could see if its worthwhile and financially viable.

[Cabinboy1943]

No.

 

Every time special arrangements are made for smokers they exclude non-smokers

 

Hi

 

With the greatest respect you seem to have overlooked the point that excluding non smokers from a particular part of the ship is no big deal when compared to smokers exclusion from almost everywhere else. I fail to see why a smoking bar cannot be provided with all the various venues there are on ships these days. But there again the zealots would be complaining in their usual selfish manner.

On another site one of these had said that if the decks were closed due to bad weather it would only be for a maximum of three days at the most and smokers could have a fag at the next port. Can you imagine the uproar if a similar ban on drinking was imposed.?

On our last cruise the subject came up on numerous occasions and most non smokers I spoke to said they thought all these restrictions were unfair. It was only the fanatics that disagreed.

The way P&O are falling over them selves to please non smokers it will only be a matter of time when Captains will have to take into account the suns position before deciding which side of the ship to moor against the quay. After all, we can't have smokers enjoying sunshine while non smokers cannot. That would be most unfair.:rolleyes:

 

Regards

 

Cabinboy

[Stinkerbelle]

I guess as a trial P/O could designate one cruise this year for non smokers only. If they advertise it enough and make it clear its a non smoking cruise. Then they could see if its worthwhile and financially viable.

 

Good idea, although if they decided it wasn't viable, there'd be some disappointed people who wouldn't be going on a cruise like they thought! If they did go ahead but made a loss on it, they'd recoup the loss somewhere else .. :rolleyes:

[Pontius Navigator]

Agree the whole issue is emotive and I will explain why I don't agree.

 

excluding non smokers from a particular part of the ship is no big deal when compared to smokers exclusion from almost everywhere else.

 

Smokers can use all the ship albeit they are not able to smoke in all parts of the ship.

 

Non-smokers can use most of the ship but some, myself included, cannot use a smoking bar.

 

I fail to see why a smoking bar cannot be provided with all the various venues there are on ships these days.

 

Indeed they could but with the following proviso. The smokers snug should not be a unique venue. A similar non-smokers snug should also be available else the smoker has sole use of an attractive feature.

 

But there again the zealots would be complaining in their usual selfish

or healthy

manner.

 

The way P&O are falling over them selves to please non smokers it will only be a matter of time when Captains will have to take into account the suns position before deciding which side of the ship to moor against the quay. After all, we can't have smokers enjoying sunshine while non smokers cannot. That would be most unfair.:rolleyes:

 

Unfortunately for you this is driven as much by international law and customer driven. I would agree that P&O might be ahead of the law but a quick summary of what I gleamed last year.

 

In the UK there is discussion whether the non-smoking rules be extended to UK registered vessels world-wide and to foreign flagged vessels in UK waters.

 

In Europe there is I believe a similar move although in true Gallic fashion it would probably be ignored.

 

In the USA the main maritime states, California, Florida, Washington are all looking at the issue in a similar way to the UK. Unlike our French cousins we know what that would mean.

 

Which then leave many cruise ships such as Carnival and Celebrity as foreign flagged vessels registered in Bermuda. And Bermuda is looking to introduce similar legislation.

 

So really smokers are on the wrong side of the argument as far as legislation goes.

[jaydonny]

...yes the international law is catching up around the world in implementing a ban on smoking inside, so untill goverments ban the selling of cigarettes, cigars, shisha.... it is still legal in most cases to smoke outside and i think a little compromise in such as one or two smokers "snugs" for the over 18s just as they have sprung up from country pubs to city bars and restaurants around the globe. from basic shelters to outside bars still competing for buissness from the smokers.

 

its only time when one of the cruise companys dare address this in another direction, and when one has cornered that market then may be all the threads ever posted on smokeing will have gone the same way... :)

[Cabinboy1943]

Hi PN

 

Thank you for your considered reply to my posting. I have now reached the stage of looking at life in general from a very jaundiced viewpoint. Not only with smoking but with P C nonsense, Health and Safety rubbish. being treated like children and government wishing to dictate what we do, say, eat, drink even what we are allowed to think. The ambition is to control us from the cradle to the grave under the delusion that the nanny state knows best.

This pernicious, interfering, supercilious ragbag of dictatorial morons will tell us if we are not part of the solution, we are part of the problem.

That suits me down to the ground. I am, and will remain, part of the problem with no intention of being anything other than, and I take a great delight in being so. :D

 

regards

 

cabinboy

[Pontius Navigator]

Quite.

 

I have now reached the stage of looking at life in general from a very jaundiced viewpoint. Not only with smoking but with P C nonsense, Health and Safety rubbish. being treated like children and government wishing to dictate what we do, say, eat, drink even what we are allowed to think.

 

I don't think you need to be ancient not to see how much we are being controlled by Big Brother.

 

The ambition is to control us from the cradle to the grave under the delusion that the nanny state knows best.

 

Orwell.

 

Yes, if you want to smoke yourself to death or I drive my car at its design maximum speed then why should we not be permitted to do so, provided we take the consequences of our actions. In the case of smoking, pay for any special medical care. In the case of dangerous driving and killing someone true life imprisonment or worse.

[lostinvegas]

First off let me say I am a non-smoker. But I have many friends who are smokers. In fact my lodger and his partner are both smokers.

 

Quote:

I fail to see why a smoking bar cannot be provided with all the various venues there are on ships these days.

Indeed they could but with the following proviso. The smokers snug should not be a unique venue. A similar non-smokers snug should also be available else the smoker has sole use of an attractive feature.

 

I think a venue for smokers idential to another venue on the ship is ideal. I am all for a sealed smokers bar. On our my recent cruise on Carnival Splendor, they had a smoking bar the only problem was the Jazz bands played in there, this was something I wanted to see but I just could not manage the smoke so missed out, but it was going in the right direction because it kept the smoke away from everywhere else on the ship.

 

The idea of an outdoor smoking area is a good one which I have no problem with, smoking terraces are very popular in many pubs, if there is space then why not.

 

I am against smoking in cabins and on balconies because it effects other people. The other 2 ideas would not affect the non-smokers at all.

 

On a final note, remember smoking kills, its free choice, if someone wants to smoke and kill themselves I am not going to stop them, just like I am not going to stop someone living off fatty foods and having a heart attack. Its none of my business, its personal choice. Just don't expect me to accept smokers taking that freedom of choice away from myself or my family.

 

I think that fair is it not.

 

Lets face it I love having sex probably as much as smokers love smoking but I am not going to do it at dinner or in the casio ;):D

 

Chris

[Cabinboy1943]

 

Yes, if you want to smoke yourself to death or I drive my car at its design maximum speed then why should we not be permitted to do so, provided we take the consequences of our actions. In the case of smoking, pay for any special medical care. In the case of dangerous driving and killing someone true life imprisonment or worse.

 

Hi PH

 

By coincidence as far as medical care is concerned figures were published recently that show smokers pay over four times in taxes on cigarettes that it costs the NHS to treat smoking related diseases. In fact,people with medical problems related to alcohol cost the NHS far more than smokers. Plus of course dangerous driving is far more likely with someone who has had too much to drink.

It could be argued that lighting a cigarette whilst driving is a distraction. This also applies to listening to the radio, unwrapping a sweet, changing a CD or looking at a Sat Nav for that matter.

 

I think we will have to agree to disagree or this thread will, like so many before it on the subject, go round in ever decreasing circles and solve nothing. Pro and anti smokers each have their own views and never the twain shall meet. All I would suggest is a little give and take on both sides which, up to now, has been sadly lacking in both camps.

 

Regards

 

cabinboy

[lostinvegas]

By coincidence as far as medical care is concerned figures were published recently that show smokers pay over four times in taxes on cigarettes that it costs the NHS to treat smoking related diseases. In fact,people with medical problems related to alcohol cost the NHS far more than smokers.

 

Could you post a refrence to where you got that information as its very interesting.

 

Chris

[Pontius Navigator]

By coincidence as far as medical care is concerned figures were published recently that show smokers pay over four times in taxes on cigarettes that it costs the NHS to treat smoking related diseases.

 

Oh, I can't agree to disagree as I agree. :)

 

I agree with the above statement too. What I had forgotten to say was how duplicitous of Government to want to limit smoking through its adverts but, like a ****, living off the immoral taxation. They should put up or shut up.

 

If cigarettes were banned in UK alone then there would be a massive cross-channel trade and I would be there too taking my cut. If there was a Europe wide ban then just imagine the smuggling across the Straits :)

 

Let's burn all the tobacco crops. A lot safer than trying to burn all the poopy crops. :)

[Host Walt]

OK, folks, here's the original post:

by the way iam not a smoker my self, but i will be cruiseing with family and friends who do smoke (Ventura N905A ) and as i have no problems with socialising with smokers outdoors, even now in the frosty uk whare we can go to many out door areas catered for smokers with outdoor heating and windproof ashtrays shelterd seating even mood lighting....

So instead of haveing to nipp out for a smoke and rush around wouldnt it be an idea to create and make use of an open deck bar and makeing it a more relaxd area for smokers with decent seating and moveable shelter screens background music......

jay

Please stay on topic. There are lots of forums on the web where one can chat about the health and government policy issues associated with smoking, but Cruise Critic isn't one of those forums.

 

Thanks.

[Blueflue]

I wonder why on a lot of cruise ships with only smoking outside,they still

 

allow it in the Casino's,it can only be because of the money they would

 

lose. Money talks and suddenly P.C is out of the window(or porthole even)

[wrahn2002]

If you cruise in Hawaii, it's non-smoking because it's non-smoking in Hawaii. Also there is no gambling on ship while in Hawaiian waters. I enjoyed the lack of smoking in the public areas. I don't gamble, so I didn't miss it.

 

Wes

[balf]

It seems to me that most non smokers are tolerant of smokers as long as they don't impact on their quality of life. For me, the pub is now a much more pleasant place to visit since the ban, and the smokers seem to have accepted that when they want a drag they have to go outside.

 

As mentioned, many ships have inside areas where smoking is permitted; maybe the casino attracts smokers because they are natural gamblers. QM2 has a cigar lounge where smoking is allowed, and there is no obvious reason why other ships could not have similar.

 

And as the law stands at the moment, when the ship is out of territorial waters anything goes. I guess most of the restrictions have been brought in because the cruise lines think it is good business for them. They were far more likely to lose non smokers by keeping things as they were than the other way round.

 

David.

[LEESRE]

Don't forget some years ago Carnival Cruise Lines tried a non smoking ship and look what happend to that. The soon resorted back to smoking.

[lostinvegas]

I spend most of my evenings in the casino, I am a non-smoker and TBH there is nothing worse than sitting at a blackjack table with some idiot sat next to you puffing smoke in your face. I have on several occasions walked away from a table because of the above so they are losing my money by having smoking in the casino.

 

All my friends are big gamblers and a large percentage of them work in the gaming industry. They are all non-smokers and should be afforded the same rights as staff in bars etc...

 

Book makers and casinos have become a far more plesent place since the ban and as such I for 1 frequent them more than I did before.

 

As stated before I am all for the smokers having their own bar as long as it does not contain facilities which are not available elsewhere, ie Casino, Sports Coverage, Live music etc...

 

Chris

[wrahn2002]

As a non-smoker, I had two experiences on the Queen Mary 2 which were not pleasant. The first was trying to get from one place to another without being overcome with smoke. I won't take the time to research which area was the worst, but I had to take a deep breath and move out to avoid the foul smoke.

 

The other experience was the karaoke set-up. They put the equipment on the smoking side of the lounge, so if you wanted to use the machine or just watch the performers, you had to put-up with the smoke. I did bring it up, but I was told the equipment could not be moved. I was also told that the smokers had the right to use the equipment. Again, I pointed out it could still be used even if it were on the non-smoking side.

 

I also have given up trying to dance in any lounge on any of the ships. The smoke is not smart enough to know it's supposed to stay on one side and not drift to the other side.

 

One positive about the Queen Mary 2 is the Queen's Lounge. It's a great place to dance once you manage to get there through all the smoke. They have a great band, a large dance floor and little or no smoke in the lounge due to a great vent system.

 

Wes

[pianomanorlando]

OK look. Facts are facts here. Cruise lines are in the business of making money. Period. As the non-smoking Carnival ship (Paradise?) proved, smokers just bring in too much money. I get that some people will not like the smoke in the casino, but the fact is that smokers gamble and drink (addiction/compulsion related, I'm sure). That's it. It is not about anyone's health or the health of the staff. If you don't like working around smoke, don't work in a cruise ship casino. Atlantic City casinos are going down the toilet over smoking rules. Tiny smoking areas are packed (3+hour waits for tables) while tables in non-smoking areas sit empty and unmanned.

 

I don't understand why everyone thinks that every ship has to be the embodiment of their utopian world. People have to share spaces all over this planet. I tolerate your massive, 11mpg SUV that you need to dive to satisfy some inadequacy issue while you pollute my community. That's just part of life. I have to spend money to kill mushrooms and such in my yard thanks to the little gifts your dogs/cats leave there. That's just part of life. I get woken up on Saturday mornings by some group of religious nutbags who feel the need to "save" every Jew in my neighborhood. It's just part of life.

 

I have a ridiculous suggestion (just so I can fit in here) - just make the whole ship smoking. It will keep the cranky whiners off the boat altogether and provide a far more enjoyable experience for the rest of us. No longer will you (the self-righteous non-smoker - which is not everyone so don't flame me) be forced to come sit down next to me in the smoking area, waving your hand in front of your face like an idiot. You look like you are swatting the flies that are following the stench of that horrible perfume you have just overused that you bought in the port today.

[balf]

pianomanorlando - Great idea, a smoking cruise ship, why didn't P&O think of that one.

 

David.

[stopgo]

Hey, Pianomanorlando that was certainly some post, glad you got that off your chest you will feel alot better for that outburst. As for myself each to their own, its not a major issue as far as I am concerned. But I am wlling to listen to both sides, thanks for drawing it to my attention.

[pianomanorlando]

Hey, Pianomanorlando that was certainly some post, glad you got that off your chest you will feel alot better for that outburst. As for myself each to their own, its not a major issue as far as I am concerned. But I am wlling to listen to both sides, thanks for drawing it to my attention.

 

LOL THANKS!

 

Sorry if it came off as a bit of a rant. I'm just so easy going with things and appreciate others who are too. Life is fun and interesting because it is so imperfect. :-)

[stopgo]

Being a recent member, and not reconiseing your name Pianomanorlando. I checked on a few of your posts, you do seem to have a bit of a bee in your bonnet about this subject. I don't mind if the topic resurfaces every now and again, it helps to hear everybodys opinion on the subject. As I always say CruiseCritic is a broad church and everbody is welcome and every opinion is valid.