Port Canaveral Expansion

Port Canaveral is expanding to accommodate bigger ships. I am hoping Disney will soon order another, bigger ship to base there! I would like to see something in the 160,000 ton range with some Frozen themed amenities.

I personally think DCL would never go that large.

If the Magic is to continue sailing for another 8-10 yrs as other's have speculated she will and could, (I disagree BTW) I think it would be in the 100-110 ton range.

Just pulling some fuel consumption data from the interweb, I was told back when I worked on the Magic it was around 54 feet per gallon.

I also found a site that lists the Magic at 57 feet per gallon.

http://www.answers.com/Q/How_many_gallons_of_fuel_does_it_take_a_cruise_ship_to_move_six_inches

These figures are without hotel generator consumption, just sailing at their average cruising speed 21-24 knots on longer itineraries.

The Oasis apparently has published her fuel consumption at 12.08 feet per gallon.

http://www.brighthubengineering.com/naval-architecture/100758-cruise-ship-fuel-efficiency/

(not sure if that includes hotel services)

Another website says that the Celebrity Eclipse (similar in GWT to the Dream and Fantasy and built at a similar time) gets around 54 feet per gallon.

http://beyondships.com/Celebrity-Eclipse-Profile.html

But the Eclipse doesn't have a large wind sail right up top like the D&F do in the shape of the structure and tubes of the AquaDuck.

I wonder how much drag the AquaDunk has created on the Magic since it was installed and what the effect on fuel consumption is.

If the rise in fuel consumption of a modern day ship is that significant between 122,000 and 225,000, I doubt DCL would build a ship in the region of 160,000 tons just due to the fuel consumption.

If the demand was there, the additional Guests would occupy the widening or lengthening of the ship in terms of accommodation, venues, restaurants but still leave no space for anything more than they already offer in terms of new attractions.

If they did go to 160,000 tons, they would need a special draw like a Space Mountain proper roller coaster at sea, pools to safety accommodate 400+ kids or adults at a time, and be like an Oasis class ship in terms of the open middle to accommodate it, but probably still only get slightly higher occupancy than the D&F, and therefore higher cruise fares than already.

We shall see. Never say never!

ex techie

I'm not sure how fuel economy factors into the buying decision. Passengers pay for the fuel, If you haul more passengers, you can buy more fuel.

BYW, Frozen may be the biggest thing right now, but three years from now after the next big film, it'll be just another film.

Forgot to add that RCI are trialing a new underwater lubrication system that uses air bubbles to smoothen the hull and reduce lag by up to 7-8%.

http://www.seatrade-insider.com/news/news-headlines/micro-bubble-system-helps-quantum-to-whopping-20-efficiency-gain-on-oasis.html

I'm sure I read Celebrity are also trailing the system.

ex techie

I'm not sure how fuel economy factors into the buying decision. Passengers pay for the fuel, If you haul more passengers, you can buy more fuel.

 

BYW, Frozen may be the biggest thing right now, but three years from now after the next big film, it'll be just another film.

Agreed!

But the less fuel efficient a ship is, you either have to raise fares to compensate for it, or suffer a percentage drop in profit per Guest based upon occupancy?

Is the increase in fuel consumption cost and therefore the increase in Guest fares bearable in the market you have, and is there the demand that WILL pay the additional costs, or do you have to reduce the profit per fare and try to make up the money else where is what I was trying to say.

If the market you have will tolerate the increase then fantastic! If not, you lose on profit margins?

ex techie

So for the less informed, whose terminal are they building on the south side of the channel now? Does it only belong to CPA? ( Canaveral Port Authority)

I thought it was for NCL?

Is it for all who pay?

Such as Rccl and NCL, etc?

Is this terminal not dedicated one to a specific cruise line?

I thought it was for a specific cruise line. :confused: Who would likely would rent it out to others. :confused:

Are the cruise lines not assisting in the funding?

TIA

So for the less informed, whose terminal are they building on the south side of the channel now? Does it only belong to CPA? ( Canaveral Port Authority)

I thought it was for NCL?

Is it for all who pay?

Such as Rccl and NCL, etc?

Is this terminal not dedicated one to a specific cruise line?

I thought it was for a specific cruise line. :confused:

Who would likely would rent it out to others. :confused:

Are the cruise lines not assisting in the funding?

 

TIA

"We'll be able to process ships of 6,000 passengers or more, so any ship in the design or construction phase can call this terminal home," said Walsh.

The terminal is being built with a combination of port equity and financing. The port will, however, continue to seek assistance from the state for some portion of the project, which Walsh expects will have a huge economic impact in the region.

The terminal is scheduled to open in November. The port said the design of the new terminal will allow it to expand later for the next generation of megaships.

Royal Caribbean's Oasis III?

Due Mid-2016?

ex techie

Port Canaveral wants the number 1 cruise spot in Fl. They are number 2 right now behind Miami. The new terminal that opened recently and also the new Terminal 1, are both capable of handling Oasis class ships. Port Canaveral is talking to an unspecified line for basing a ship there, but last I looked haven't said who that line is. It is entirely possible that the new Oasis Class ship will go there, and replace one of the 3 RCL has there now. Considering the Ports agreement with Disney, and the fact the RCL is footing 50% of the build cost of the new terminal, with preference I wouldn't be surprised if one of the 3 Oasis class ships calls PC home. Or a different new build.

This is the latest from outside sources:

http://www.travelweekly.com/Cruise-Travel/Royal-Caribbean-mega-ship-could-be-headed-for-Port-Canaveral/

Port Canaveral wants the number 1 cruise spot in Fl. They are number 2 right now behind Miami. The new terminal that opened recently and also the new Terminal 1, are both capable of handling Oasis class ships. Port Canaveral is talking to an unspecified line for basing a ship there, but last I looked haven't said who that line is. It is entirely possible that the new Oasis Class ship will go there, and replace one of the 3 RCL has there now. Considering the Ports agreement with Disney, and the fact the RCL is footing 50% of the build cost of the new terminal, with preference I wouldn't be surprised if one of the 3 Oasis class ships calls PC home. Or a different new build.

 

This is the latest from outside sources:

http://www.travelweekly.com/Cruise-Travel/Royal-Caribbean-mega-ship-could-be-headed-for-Port-Canaveral/

Totally agree Truck1! Its for RCI.

And most likely will be used by their other ships in addition to the current terminal.

And to how DCL could handle a 160,000 ton ship Guest load in the current terminal without demolishing it and rebuilding it, using the customs baggage claim area and adding another building to it to act as the customs check out is impossible.

ex techie

So for the less informed, whose terminal are they building on the south side of the channel now? Does it only belong to CPA? ( Canaveral Port Authority)

I thought it was for NCL?

Is it for all who pay?

Such as Rccl and NCL, etc?

Is this terminal not dedicated one to a specific cruise line?

I thought it was for a specific cruise line. :confused: Who would likely would rent it out to others. :confused:

Are the cruise lines not assisting in the funding?

 

TIA

The new terminal is basically everybodys. Any ship that moors there will pay a given amount for the service. Its one of the ways that the port makes money. For example, when we did the Eastern on the Fantasy in Oct of 13, the Magic had just come in from dd and was tied to the DCL pier while they finished her up. When the Fantasy came home, the Magic moved to the next pier up, so the Fantasy could get in. Disney paid for the Magic to be at terminal. When the Dream and Fantasy both came home, they spent time at terminal 2, while the Magic and Wonder were in port. They paid for that terminal while the ship was there also.

Last I heard RCL will get terminal preference for the new terminal, since they are paying 50% of the 65 million build cost.

As far as I know, DCL is the only cruiseline that has its own terminal. Anywhere. There are some piers that are "contractually obligated" to a given line for 1 reason or another (there is a few cruiselines that when the ship is being turned, plug into the local power grid instead of generating there own power. In return to putting in the infrastructure to do this, the ports give theses piers to the lines that put in the money for the transformers)

(there is a few cruiselines that when the ship is being turned, plug into the local power grid instead of generating there own power. In return to putting in the infrastructure to do this, the ports give theses piers to the lines that put in the money for the transformers)

Do the Dream and Fantasy cold iron when in PC?

I know they have capability like the Wonder had to get for the Alaska cruises?

Did the Magic get the same ability during her dry dock?

ex techie

Off Topic Maybe .....

I accidentally found this while posting on the "other" side. Interesting....

Yet, I still don't get it. Is CPA defferring to local for internal coverage, or is all this noise discussing the perimeter?

I welcome a synopsis from the informed . lol

TIA

Off Topic Maybe .....

 

I accidentally found this while posting on the "other" side. Interesting....

 

Yet, I still don't get it. Is CPA defferring to local for internal coverage, or is all this noise discussing the perimeter?

 

I welcome a synopsis from the informed . lol

 

 

TIA

Sounds like he is a career politician to me!

No opinion on the proposal, just that he is an.

I won't say any more than that as I might not be allowed in Brevard County or the Port again otherwise!

ex techie

... Last I heard RCL will get terminal preference for the new terminal, since they are paying 50% of the 65 million build cost....

Thanks.

This new build terminal appears to be in the same place other vessels have ported in the past , as a POC in PC. Has this construction interfered with any vessels during their POC to PC?

Regarding someones comment about limited, dedicated terminals, specific to cruise lines...

I thought that is exactly what existed in PC. A Rccl, DCL, CCL, terminal. For their exclusive use. Am I missing something? ? ?

Are you all indicating other vessels use those same terminals for other vessels/companies?

I've seen NCL there on a POC but they didn't use an existing "major' terminal.

I will now ask, where does the NCL Breakaway berth while on a POC in PC?

Thanks so much for sharing.

Ironically, I know this area and the port, yet lately I can't keep up apparently. :o

TIA

...I won't say any more than that as I might not be allowed in Brevard County or the Port again otherwise!

Lol. :D

I'm surprised I'm still allowed in too. :rolleyes:

:)

Do the Dream and Fantasy cold iron when in PC?

I know they have capability like the Wonder had to get for the Alaska cruises?

Did the Magic get the same ability during her dry dock?

 

ex techie

As far as I know no. The only place I know is in Ca that cold irons ships. All of the ships as far as I know have the capability as when the ships are in drydock they have no way to effectively cool the mains so they basically plug into shorside power. They most like cold iron as many engines as they can as power demands, but they definitely don't run all of them in port.

http://www.contracostatimes.com/news/ci_24486230/port-oakland-goes-electric-reduce-diesel-pollution

For this one, notice DCL is mentioned and the ship in the picture.

http://www.portoflosangeles.org/environment/alt_maritime_power.asp

As far as I know no. The only place I know is in Ca that cold irons ships. All of the ships as far as I know have the capability as when the ships are in drydock they have no way to effectively cool the mains so they basically plug into shorside power. They most like cold iron as many engines as they can as power demands, but they definitely don't run all of them in port.

 

http://www.contracostatimes.com/news/ci_24486230/port-oakland-goes-electric-reduce-diesel-pollution

 

For this one, notice DCL is mentioned and the ship in the picture.

 

http://www.portoflosangeles.org/environment/alt_maritime_power.asp

Actually, very few cruise ships have the capability to cold iron. Those that call in CA are specially equipped for it, and some in Alaska. When cruise ships are in drydock, most shipyards do not have the capability to provide enough power to meet a cruise ships electrical needs, even without guests. The ships are equipped with special connections into the sea water cooling systems for supply and overboard, and the shipyard provides water (usually from either a yard fire pump or one of the drydock pumps) to provide cooling water for the ship's generator. For overboard, a hose is connected to keep the hull dry for work/painting.

Actually, very few cruise ships have the capability to cold iron. Those that call in CA are specially equipped for it, and some in Alaska. When cruise ships are in drydock, most shipyards do not have the capability to provide enough power to meet a cruise ships electrical needs, even without guests. The ships are equipped with special connections into the sea water cooling systems for supply and overboard, and the shipyard provides water (usually from either a yard fire pump or one of the drydock pumps) to provide cooling water for the ship's generator. For overboard, a hose is connected to keep the hull dry for work/painting.

Hey Chief,

Thanks for the info! I seem to remember one of the engines on the Magic being left online during the dry dock a huge pipes going into a sea chest?

Just found this article that states:

The newbuilds will be prepared for cold ironing, and will be ready to go minus the plug.

Once shore power becomes available the ships are plug and play

http://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/4998-disney-dream-to-a-new-level.html

So it seems the D&F have the infrastructure and capability, just not the shoreside capability at most of their ports.

ex techie

As far as I know no. The only place I know is in Ca that cold irons ships. All of the ships as far as I know have the capability as when the ships are in drydock they have no way to effectively cool the mains so they basically plug into shorside power. They most like cold iron as many engines as they can as power demands, but they definitely don't run all of them in port.

 

http://www.contracostatimes.com/news/ci_24486230/port-oakland-goes-electric-reduce-diesel-pollution

 

For this one, notice DCL is mentioned and the ship in the picture.

 

http://www.portoflosangeles.org/environment/alt_maritime_power.asp

Thanks for the reply Truck,

The reason I asked was with fuel prices constantly on the increase, I wonder when it will be more cost effective to buy electricity from the grid when in port over self production?

PC would seem a good port with an average 10 hour stay?

That and when more ports will introduce stricter environmental emission controls that require it.

ex techie

Hey Chief,

 

Thanks for the info! I seem to remember one of the engines on the Magic being left online during the dry dock a huge pipes going into a sea chest?

Just found this article that states:

 

http://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/4998-disney-dream-to-a-new-level.html

 

So it seems the D&F have the infrastructure and capability, just not the shoreside capability at most of their ports.

 

ex techie

Could be, if they pull one of the sea valves to run the hose through the sea chest (I've seen that on cargo ships). I've also seen a special connection in one of the side ports used for taking on drinking water, for cooling water inlet, and then they bolt a flange to the normal sea cooling overboard and lead a hose from it.

I guess Disney is thinking that there will be a increase in ports requiring cold iron, like LA and Alaska. Given the new ECA requirements in January, I think it will be a long time before ports require anything more stringent.

Could be, if they pull one of the sea valves to run the hose through the sea chest (I've seen that on cargo ships). I've also seen a special connection in one of the side ports used for taking on drinking water, for cooling water inlet, and then they bolt a flange to the normal sea cooling overboard and lead a hose from it.

 

I guess Disney is thinking that there will be a increase in ports requiring cold iron, like LA and Alaska. Given the new ECA requirements in January, I think it will be a long time before ports require anything more stringent.

Cheers for the reply Chief.

Did you see my reply to Truck above?

Do you have any thoughts?

ex techie

 

If the Magic is to continue sailing for another 8-10 yrs as other's have speculated she will and could, (I disagree BTW)

How many more years do you think the Magic will be sailing for DCL?

Thanks for the reply Truck,

 

The reason I asked was with fuel prices constantly on the increase, I wonder when it will be more cost effective to buy electricity from the grid when in port over self production?

PC would seem a good port with an average 10 hour stay?

That and when more ports will introduce stricter environmental emission controls that require it.

 

ex techie

I would suspect that the ports charge a premium for electricity, in order to pay the capital expense and maintenance of the supply equipment. Given that running one generator in port usually loads that generator pretty high, the efficiency is pretty good, and the cost will be pretty comparable to shore power, taking into consideration the additional capital expense for the shore power connection (usually requires an additional side port and the switchgear).

Does anyone know when this expansion is expected to be complete?

I'm thinking that more ships sailing out of Port Canaveral will necessitate more flights which usually translates to lower airfares.

How many more years do you think the Magic will be sailing for DCL?

Personally I think 2020 tops so 6 years.

I was wrong about my announcement being soon a while back.

ex techie