Moscow without the Kremlin-worth it?

We are on a 3 day St. Petersburg stop in July on Oceania ,but our only day to do Moscow is a Thursday when the Kremlin is closed. Is it worth it to go the distance/cost without seeing the Kremlin (substituting an art museum).

Would appreciate feedback from anyone.SPB tours does offer a tour, Alla doesn't have a regularly scheduled one & doesn't particularly recommend doing it.

Thank you.

This is a very nice museum:

http://www.tretyakovgallery.ru/en/

I thought there were quite a few interesting things to see in Moscow, but it seems awefully far from St. Petersburg (10 hours by car), so you may be better off to see it on a different occasion and allow yourself a little more time.

Agreed, it's not Moscow that's the issue, but the distance, presuming you're doing it as part of a tour while in port in St Petersburg. If you're e.g. going there at the beginning/end of the cruise, go for it!

It would be on Day 2 of a 3 day St. P port. Leaving at 5:45 am & returning after midnight- it would exclude an evening out in St. P due to the early hour pickup. Plus @ $500. pp & still missing the Kremlin.

Is it worth it?

Well, if the drive alone is 10 hours each way, you'll be spending 20 hours in the car just to get to Moscow and back. I think, it's just too far. Unless they have multiple drivers who can take turns, I would also think it might be dangerous to rely on an overtired driver to get you back to the ship.

We were never going to drive- but use the high speed train while with a tour guide.

We were never going to drive- but use the high speed train while with a tour guide.

That would actually tempt me...

We were never going to drive- but use the high speed train while with a tour guide.

Going from this site http://www.waytorussia.net/Transport/Timetables/MoscowPetersburg.html, the train is about 4 hours.

So rough estimate you'll get to Moscow about 10:30, and probably leave around 7-7:30.

Although you can't see inside the Kremlin, you can still see the outside at Red Square, Lenin's tomb, many magnificent churches and everything else. I wouldn't say seeing inside the Kremlin would be the defining factor of Moscow, so would just weigh up what you would do as an alternative, and how much you want to see Moscow.

It's like many world class cities, even if one major attraction is closed e.g. if the Eiffel Tower at Paris were closed (theoretically) there's still a lot of other things to see. I wouldn't not go just because that is closed.

Basically, what else do you miss by doing this? Personally, if it's your only chance to get there and you want to go, and the only 'cost' is the evening and the $500, I'd probably still go.

We were never going to drive- but use the high speed train while with a tour guide.

YES! The high-speed train connection does make a big, big difference. We did the one-day Moscow trip in 2008 by the air connections. I'll offer up some added background, along with various pro/con factors for your consideration. My wife thought it was lots of money, but she viewed it as very much worth it after completing the trip as a "once in a lifetime" experience.

CON FACTORS: It's a long day! Leave the ship early (greeted by a small welcoming band dockside); get back to the St. Petersburg airport around midnight and back to the ship a little before 1 am. Moscow is a super large city of about ten million people. There has been huge growth in the suburbs of this city during the past decades or so. Traffic and time from the airport to the main downtown takes about an hour, but the train takes your directly into the heart of this large city. Since we had to drive in from the airport, we had a good feel as we traveled into town through the coach windows about the “new Moscow” with its suburban growth, commerce, advertising, capitalism, etc.

PRO FACTORS: Moscow has its unique history, sights and sites, from Ivan the Terrible up through Lenin, Stalin and the new Russian leaders of today. After a long ride in from the airport on the outer edge of this large metro areas of 17.3 million (with 10.5 million in the city), we stopped at a new hotel for coffee/tea/break. Then, we rode the Moscow subway and saw a couple of their very unique and artistic stations. Stalin at the time called these stations “People’s Palaces”. This Moscow Metro was first opened in 1935 and now has 182 stations, 12 different lines,187 miles of routes and carries seven million passengers each weekday. It’s the world second busiest subway system. This subway ride offered a good sampling of real life for people who live and work in Moscow. We then saw more key places enroute, including the home of the Bolshoy Ballet, KGB Headquarters, various Stalin era buildings, etc. Then we went to the Kremlin with its 19 historic towers. WOW, we were really there!

Inside the Kremlin are three key “super stars”. First, was the State Armoury with its spectacular Faberge Eggs, plus so many carriages, crowns, gowns, jewels, etc. Second are the various historic Cathedrals within the Kremlin Walls, plus the Tower Bells, Icon art, etc. This includes the Cathedral of the Annunciation built in the 1480’s and having such spectacular wall murals and icons. Third, was the Great Kremlin Palace with its spectacular reception halls, inlaid wood floors, gold and more gold, fancy ceilings, etc. The Czars were crowned here, plus the current heads of the Russian government, etc. The size and scale of these areas are hard to describe in words, let alone reflect and capture the history that has happened in some of these rooms dating back to the late 1400’s. We have seen lots of great palaces all over Europe, but this is something above and beyond for the eyes, heart and brain.

Then, we saw more building inside the walls of the Kremlin. We went outside of the Kremlin Walls and walked next door to adjoining Red Square, seeing St. Basil’s and the re-done Gum Department Store. Red Square is so historic, especially having grown up seeing the military May Day parades there, visuals of Lenin’s Tomb, etc. Have the words “spectacular” and historic been used too much? Maybe, but it fits for many of these unique places. St. Basil’s was built 1555–1561 on the order of Ivan IV (the Terrible). It was the tallest building in Moscow until the completion of the Ivan the Great Bell Tower (266 feet tall) in 1600 inside the Kremlin Walls. To be able to “CONTRAST” and compare Moscow and St. Petersburg during these three short days adds to the benefits of seeing both of these great Russian capital cities. Each is a very different and special city.

We finished with dinner in the Central Writers’ Club, a one hundred years old mansion made into a restaurant with crystal chandeliers, rich wood panelling, fireplaces, and antique balustrades.

Is one day too short and limited? YES! You can, however, do and see lots in only that one short day. You get a small sampling above. How often do you get to Russia? The Cold War might not come back in full force, but there are going to be increasing and revisited tensions in future years involving Russia and getting access there. They have done this tour many times and have its details down well and timing perfected. Let me know any questions, thoughts or reactions.

Below are a few visuals for what is to see and do in Moscow. On your key question/concern, I do not know on that one day if and only just the Kremlin State Armoury is closed . . . OR . . . if it means all of the area within those walls, the churches are closed off. Might check more on that important detail.

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

Did a June 7-19, 2011, Solstice cruise from Barcelona that had stops in Villefranche, ports near Pisa and Rome, Naples, Kotor, Venice and Dubrovnik. Enjoyed great weather and a wonderful trip. Dozens of wonderful visuals with key highlights, tips, comments, etc., on these postings. We are now at 107,850 views for this live/blog re-cap on our first sailing with Celebrity and much on wonderful Barcelona. Check these postings and added info at:

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1426474

For details and visuals, etc., from our July 1-16, 2010, Norway Coast/Fjords/Arctic Circle cruise experience from Copenhagen on the Silver Cloud, check out this posting. This posting is now at 84,885 views.

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1227923

One of the Kremlin Wall Towers in Moscow:

Walking on the famed Red Square of Moscow:

St. Basil's sits on Red Square and dates back to its 1555-61 construction on the orders of Ivan the Terrible (Ivan IV). It commemorates the capture of Kazan and Astrakhan and marks the geometric center of the city. This location has been the hub of its growth for Moscow since the 14th century. It was the tallest building in Moscow until the completion of the Ivan the Great Bell Tower in 1600. This church was near destroyed in the 1930’s when Stalin was in control.:

The domes of the historic church inside the walls of the Kremlin:

This is the interior for Moscow's most historic church, Assumption Cathedral or the Cathedral of the Dormition, inside the Kremlin walls. It is the mother church of Muscovite Russia. The church stands on Cathedral Square and was built in 1475–1479 by the Italian architect Aristotele Fioravanti. It was erected on the spot of an older 14th century cathedral of the same name:

The Russian subways are called the “People’s Palaces” with their marble coverings and unique designs for each of the different and many stations. This visual is from Moscow, but you have similar to see in St. Petersburg. Very interesting!!:

Thank you to the Big M & TLCin Ohio for your thoughts & links.

Terry, your pictures are beyond belief- I love reading your posts.

We are leaning toward doing a 3rd day in St.P but will definitely check out whether the churches are also closed around the Kremlin on that Thursday.

Thank you to the Big M & TLCin Ohio for your thoughts & links. Terry, your pictures are beyond belief- I love reading your posts. We are leaning toward doing a 3rd day in St.P but will definitely check out whether the churches are also closed around the Kremlin on that Thursday.

Appreciate your kind viewpoint on my pictures and posts. Glad to know you're a person of such high class, great taste and wonderful judgment to make these generous comments.

On the visiting Moscow on a Thursday challenge, from the official website:

http://www.kreml.ru/en/info/visitors/

they note: "The Moscow Kremlin’s territory and museums open daily, except Thursdays, from 10:00 to 17:00."

My Eyewitness Moscow book also confirms these various, major places inside the Kremlin only being open Friday to Wednesday. That makes things difficulty.

There are other good options in Moscow, but I would have been disappointed in a major way if we had not been able to see ALL that we did inside the Kremlin and its major locations during our 2008 visit there.

Below are a few more of my Moscow pictures to build up excitement for you and/or others considering a visit to this historic and unique city.

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

Did a June 7-19, 2011, Solstice cruise from Barcelona that had stops in Villefranche, ports near Pisa and Rome, Naples, Kotor, Venice and Dubrovnik. Enjoyed great weather and a wonderful trip. Dozens of wonderful visuals with key highlights, tips, comments, etc., on these postings. We are now at 107,850 views for this live/blog re-cap on our first sailing with Celebrity and much on wonderful Barcelona. Check these postings and added info at:

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1426474

These are the series of smaller domes on the top of the Church of the Deposition of the Robe in the Kremlin Cathedral Square area.:

Inside the newly, more westernized GUM Department Store:

The famed KGB (Secret Police) Headquarters in Moscow where many entered and did not exit (alive) during the 1950’s and 1960’s:

One of the 1930’s style building built by Stalin in Moscow:

Here is a small sampling of the Kremlin Royal Treasures of the Czars: Eggs & Jewels inside the famed Armory.:

Young Military Officers on the streets of Moscow with Soviet "High Hat".:

I'd wanted to see the Faberge eggs- My mother had a very wealthy friend that just recently sold one in an acclaimed auction. I guess this may be the closest I get to it.

Thanks Terry- I appreciate your words too!

I'd wanted to see the Faberge eggs- My mother had a very wealthy friend that just recently sold one in an acclaimed auction. I guess this may be the closest I get to it. Thanks Terry- I appreciate your words too!

Glad, Gail, to have gotten you a little "up close and personal" to the Faberge eggs. On our ship before visiting St. Petersburg, one of the speakers gave an excellent presentation on the history connected with Mr. Faberge, how he crafted these items, etc. Very fascinating to learn about them and then to see them in person in Moscow. Since you might not get there, here are some added views of the variety within that famed museum.

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

Did a June 7-19, 2011, Solstice cruise from Barcelona that had stops in Villefranche, ports near Pisa and Rome, Naples, Kotor, Venice and Dubrovnik. Enjoyed great weather and a wonderful trip. Dozens of wonderful visuals with key highlights, tips, comments, etc., on these postings. We are now at 107,850 views for this live/blog re-cap on our first sailing with Celebrity and much on wonderful Barcelona. Check these postings and added info at:

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1426474

Kremlin Treasures: Some of the Royal books & other items:

Kremlin Treasures: Royal clocks, etc.:

Kremlin Treasures: Robes used by Czars:

Kremlin Treasures: Crowns and other “tools” for the Czars:

Wow- your pictures are amazing !

Wow- your pictures are amazing !

Appreciate the nice comments. Here more on the eggs, that museum, etc. One of the oldest museums in Moscow, it was established in 1808 and located within the Kremlin Walls. It originated as the royal arsenal in 1508 during when it was in charge of producing, purchasing and storing weapons, jewelry and various household articles of the Tsars. There are ten Fabergé eggs in the Armoury collection (all Imperial eggs). This is the most Imperial eggs, and the second-most overall Fabergé eggs, owned by a single owner. The Trans-Siberian Railway Egg is a jeweled Easter egg made under the supervision of the Russian jeweller Peter Carl Fabergé in 1900 for Tsar Nicholas II of Russia. It was presented by Nicolas II as an Easter gift to his wife. The exterior of the 1900 Trans-Siberian Railway egg is made of onyx, silver, gold, and quartz, and is decorated with colored vitreous enamel. The lid of the egg is hinged, has an overlay of green enamel, and is decorated with inlaid leaves of acanthus. On top of the lid is a golden three-headed eagle in gold with the Imperial Crown. The interior is lined with velvet. A route map of the Trans-Siberian Railway is engraved in silver across the face, with major stations marked by a precious stone, forming a belt around the egg. The egg is supported by three griffins made of gold-plated silver on a stepped triangular base of white onyx.

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

Did a June 7-19, 2011, Solstice cruise from Barcelona that had stops in Villefranche, ports near Pisa and Rome, Naples, Kotor, Venice and Dubrovnik. Enjoyed great weather and a wonderful trip. Dozens of wonderful visuals with key highlights, tips, comments, etc., on these postings. We are now at 107,850 views for this live/blog re-cap on our first sailing with Celebrity and much on wonderful Barcelona. Check these postings and added info at:

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1426474

There is supposed to be a Faberge Egg Museum opening in 2014 at the Hermitage & will probably house the above mentioned egg that was privately sold in 2007.

There is supposed to be a Faberge Egg Museum opening in 2014 at the Hermitage & will probably house the above mentioned egg that was privately sold in 2007.

THANKS! Didn't know about that coming to the Hermitage. Appreciate the tip!! Below is more info that I picked up from one web source: "A museum dedicated to the creator of the Faberge eggs will open in St. Petersburg's Hermitage Museum as part of festivities marking the 250th anniversary of the Hermitage in 2014, museum director Mikhail Piotrovsky said. The Museum of Peter Carl Faberge, to be housed in a refurbished exhibition hall in the western wing of the General Staff Building, will include works by Faberge and jewelry items from the Hermitage collection. From time to time private collections will also be displayed."

It's from this Russian media source:

http://en.rian.ru/art_living/20111109/168557908.html

Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

Did a June 7-19, 2011, Solstice cruise from Barcelona that had stops in Villefranche, ports near Pisa and Rome, Naples, Kotor, Venice and Dubrovnik. Enjoyed great weather and a wonderful trip. Dozens of wonderful visuals with key highlights, tips, comments, etc., on these postings. We are now at 107,850 views for this live/blog re-cap on our first sailing with Celebrity and much on wonderful Barcelona. Check these postings and added info at:

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1426474

TLCOhio, Breathtaking pictures! We were considering Moscow but decided against it as we only had 2 days in St. Petersburg. If we had 3 we would surely have gone.

Gail, what makes it so difficult to plan Moscow for one of the other 2 days in St. Petersburg? All the gold in the pictures seems to be from inside the Kremlin, something you will not see if you go on a Thursday. Why don’t you email several local Russian operators (ex. Alla, SPB, Best Guides – the one we used) for advice on itinerary and prices? Give it a try.